George Takei Accused of Sexually Assaulting Former Model in 1981

[Henry Krinkle]

Here we go again...

Accuser Scott R. Brunton says he was groped by the 'Star Trek' icon at the actor's Los Angeles condo.

A former model and actor is accusing Star Trek icon George Takei of sexual assault in 1981. The accuser, Scott R. Brunton, who was 23 at the time of the alleged incident, claims that Takei took advantage of him when he was most vulnerable.

"This happened a long time ago, but I have never forgotten it," Brunton tells The Hollywood Reporter in an interview. "It is one of those stories you tell with a group of people when people are recounting bizarre instances in their lives, this always comes up. I have been telling it for years, but I am suddenly very nervous telling it."

Snip........................

The two men went back to the actor's condo for a drink the same night. "We have the drink and he asks if I would like another," Brunton recalls. "And I said sure. So, I have the second one, and then all of a sudden, I begin feeling very disoriented and dizzy, and I thought I was going to pass out. I said I need to sit down and he said sit over here and he had the giant yellow beanbag chair. So I sat down in that and leaned my head back and I must have passed out."

"The next thing I remember I was coming to and he had my pants down around my ankles and he was groping my crotch and trying to get my underwear off and feeling me up at the same time, trying to get his hands down my underwear," Brunton says. "I came to and said, 'What are you doing?!' I said, 'I don't want to do this.' He goes, 'You need to relax. I am just trying to make you comfortable. Get comfortable.' And I said, 'No. I don't want to do this.' And I pushed him off and he said, 'OK, fine.' And I said I am going to go and he said, 'If you feel you must. You're in no condition to drive.' I said, 'I don't care I want to go.' So I managed to get my pants up and compose myself and I was just shocked. I walked out and went to my car until I felt well enough to drive home, and that was that."

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/george-takei-accused-sexually-assaulting-model-1981-1056698

[Not Ruth]

1. There is starting to be a really long list of names

Just saw that Jeremy Piven is volunteering to take a polygraph

[defacto7]

2. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Next thing the rw is going to come up with is a 40 year old being molested by a 70 year old.

This has got to be satire or click bait and I'm not taking the bait.

[pnwmom]

6. The story has been confirmed by 5 of the man's friends.

Five of Brunton’s friends independently told BuzzFeed News that they have heard Brunton tell the story at various times over the years.

One of those friends, Jan Steward, told BuzzFeed News she recalled Brunton telling her the story at the dinner table roughly a decade ago.

“It was clearly very, very upsetting to him,” she said.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/claudiarosenbaum/a-man-says-george-takei-groped-him-while-he-was-passed-out?utm_term=.tgZAzea3JJ#.rxGldomEYY

[defacto7]

8. If it wasn't consentual

it's between them to follow legal proceedings if they can't come to grips with it. That's what adults do.
But it's not child rape and the rw use this psychological manipulation to bait people. Don't fall for it.
Did anyone consider that because it's between consenting adults and because we are not talking about our representatives in government... that it's none of our business? I am actually beginning to believe people are getting off on all this stuff. That is disgusting to me.

[pnwmom]

9. Sexual assault against adults is still wrong. And no, a victim whether male or female

isn't required to institute legal proceedings.

#metoo isn't about legal proceedings. It's about victims unburdening themselves and coming forward.

[defacto7]

12. Sorry, I updated my post.

I do see your point... but not what people are being manipulated into. It's political crap slinging.

[pnwmom]

13. You might think it's trivial, but #metoo is probably why Roy Moore's accusers

were willing to publish their names in the WA Post.

[defacto7]

17. Children vs. Adults

[pnwmom]

35. Assaulting neither children nor adults is moral or acceptable. n/t

[defacto7]

20. It's not trivial.

But what people are putting into this story is dangerous for everyone.

[pnwmom]

36. People are responding to this story as they have when women have made similar claims.

[defacto7]

16. I didn't say required... I said it's what adults do.

You say, "It's about victims unburdening themselves and coming forward."

So you need to be involved? Are you related? I'm not, and it's not appropriate for me to be involved in it. Is it entertainment? I should hope that it is not entertaining to anyone.

It's very hard to watch the right wing manipulating people into destroying their own.

I'm sorry pnwmom. I just don't understand people not seeing what's happening here.

I mean no disrespect to you.

[pnwmom]

37. The vast majority of adults who are sexually assaulted don't press charges.

More information here.

rainn.org

[FarPoint]

135. I prefer the legal path to resolve such incidents...

Just saying...old, old claims rely on media frenzy to secure attention....motivation could be money, resentment revenge, ...many latent thoughts .... ultimately, harm will definitely result for the accused ....I prefer evidence in a valid time frame ...

[Roland99]

15. If he was drugged, how is it consensual?

[defacto7]

18. Who said he was drugged? Is that a fact or

part of the storyline? Alcohol will do the same. Was the 23 year old taking anything else on his own? We can't know, can we? So why are we involved in this?

[Roland99]

22. Before finishing a second drink he was already passing out?

And once passed out was being molested?

And several friends say he's repeated this claim many times over the years?

[defacto7]

23. Maybe... still doesn't pass the test..

Who said what? Friends? Was he taking anything else? Maybe he was already stoned? Maybe not. Molested? 23? 44? 66? 88?
Who again? Said what? Were they there? What did you see? You were in the apartment? I know I wasn't. Who? Police report? Documents? Buzzfeed????

This is to manipulate the public. Making money is what clicking on entertaining, titillating stuff does. You be a part of that if that's your thing. Not me. It's politically motivated and timed for effect... and we know nothing.

[moriah]

25. Okay, fuck this.

I was raped after getting drunk enough to pass out in front of someone I trusted to not think "can't say no" means "yea".

If each of those drinks had 5 shots and his pass-out limit was 8 shots, he might not have been drugged for what he described to happen.

It doesn't matter age or gender or whether the consumption of alcohol is consensual. If you think banging someone drunk enough to complain about feeling ill is right, I'm glad I'll never get drunk around you. If you think there's something sexy about a body that can't have enthusiastic sex with you vs just lay there/barely respond, get on Fetlife and have that with people into consensual sleep play.

Otherwise, if the person you wanted to bang that night drinks enough to complain about feeling ill, yes, escort them to a chair or couch.

Then go find a puke bucket, check to see if they've passed out or are still very out of it. If they are, position them so if they vomit they vomit into the bucket and don't choke.

THEN, if you still need an orgasm, go jack/jill off in the bathroom.

[treestar]

98. Of course it is wrong.

But did it happen that way? How do we really know this guy is on the level? Why do we have to believe all or nothing?

[moriah]

104. What reason does this specific person have to lie?

I said in another post on this that I don't buy the Christian Patriarchy bullshit that says "speaking out late in the day" is wrong or automatically discredits a victim.

And just because George is sorta a sacred cow doesn't mean we need to make the same goddamn idiotic victim-blaming bullshit statements that the other side is famous for. I believe victims until something specific comes up about the victim that makes me question their motivations.

If people find out that this specific victim has made false accusations before, or has some vendetta, or got sent to "pray the gay away" brainwashing school and now thinks every sexual encounter he had with a man was wrong... that's when we should start "sniff testing".

Until then even if we want to believe (as I certainly want to believe) this isn't true, we can't let that interfere with condemning the described behavior as WRONG. Even if he had far more than two drinks, or had been on Xanax so the alcohol he drank with Takei hit him harder.

And also, again, this could have happen WITHOUT it being a deliberate plan to rape a person, if the drinks were stiff enough. What makes the behavior wrong is that when a person is ill/dizzy/passed out from some intoxicant, people shouldn't try to fuck them just because they can't say no.

[treestar]

108. political reasons

it is starting to look like that. People have weird reasons to lie. And he could believe himself. That story could have changed over the years.

It really is unfair to allow accusations alone to define a person. All I have to do is make some claim and I get believed? We know there are people who will get their 15 minutes and be happy with that.

I'd hate to give people power like that. Before you know it, there will be accusations on everybody.

What about the people who just believed Hillary was running a sex ring? Obviously someone was lying.

[moriah]

113. As I said, I believe victims until something comes up to prove otherwise.

In the "child sex pizza" fiasco, I don't recall there being a single victim actually identified even by age and gender or their parents making anonymous statements, etc. There was no victim to believe.

But I am not going to immediately dismiss someone who describes something that was close enough to what I experienced, at least not without bitching mightily about the people who discredit their story simply for the same reasons the cops couldn't be bothered to really work my case (that it was someone I knew so all the rape kit proved was precum got inside me, not how).

I was an adult. I was in his home willingly. I willingly drank myself into a stupor and laid down on the couch, and didn't wake back up until he'd carefully carried me to another room, disturbed as little of my clothing as he could to gain access, and was being penetrated.

I am fortunate that he was trying to be sneaky, because he decided the "safest" way to do it would be to have me laying on my side away from him and him penetrate from behind -- I had jeans on. When I woke up to an unwanted penis in my vagina, I was able to get away. I wouldn't have been able to had he been on top of me.

Just because he is an adult, of the same sexual persuasion, and drank willingly does NOT mean sexual assault is impossible. Just because he's talking 36 years later doesn't mean it was impossible. Just because it's someone we admire doesn't mean it was impossible.

It's other things we should look at to decide, not this myth that date rape can't happen.

[Motownman78]

109. Because the model is a Repub

and GT is a major Liberal figure.

[moriah]

117. Was unaware of deets on vic. As I said, until deets...

... come up that discredit a story, I believe victims even when I don't want to believe people I admire would do those things.

I'm just not going to sit here and read on DU that alcohol-facilitated date sexual assault is okay because the victim wasn't a child, which the post that made me snap essentially said.

[Drunken Irishman]

146. I'm just in awe at these replies...

Who cares if he's a Republican? One of Moore's accusers is a Hillary supporter. Does that mean her credibility is any less factual?

IF the Buzzfeed story is true, and the woman, a friend, he confided in a decade ago about this incident, is not lying, then what political motivation would he have back in 2007? George Takei wasn't near the social media celebrity he is now, using that platform to push his political agenda, since Twitter didn't even exist back then and Facebook was a little known social media network for college students (and I'd bet George wasn't on FB in 2007).

What motivation there?

If it's political, of course.

So, either this guy got A LOT of people to lie or there's something here that you'd think liberals would at least be compassionate enough to listen to without quickly dismissing the allegations.

I hate to say it, but tribalism works here, too. Ultimately, we're not much better than the right in this regard.

[moriah]

149. It sucks when we have to take the high road, but there's less bullshit there.

Last edited Sat Nov 11, 2017, 07:53 PM - Edit history (2)

Whether this was manufactured or not, whether the "other side" is hypocritical or not, if we're going to be true to our values we can't be hypocritical ourselves.

George Takei is a very influential figure. He was a victim of the Japanese internment, and is one of the few people who ever reminds us of that terrible act of ours during a terrible war -- we can't forget it was wrong to imprison people for their ancestry whether or not we gassed them. And as a celebrity who made public his sexual orientation and speaks out about gay rights quite eloquently (even when calling a resident of my state a douchebag), he has made many great points when issues have come up that affect the community. He has a lot of followers. And for good reason.

That doesn't mean it's impossible that he did something awful once, or even necessarily that the full extent of the accusation and George's side of the story are completely incompatible.

After all, it's possible that the drinks weren't just beers, but Long Island Iced Teas poured liberally, because he was seemingly needing to forget about his ex. It's possible that the time loss was from being blacked out, and he seemed drunk but still capable of consent (aka, not unconscious, which is the legal line in my state if not the moral one in my opinion). If so, livers process about 1-2 shots an hour in men, slower if Xanax or something specific is blocking alcohol leaving the body.

It's certainly possible that the model would remember a celebrity vs a celebrity remember every person who might have come to their apartment before we learned that there was a virus that was sexually transmitted and killing people. Oh, those carefree days before people kept track of every sexual partner for fear that they'd have to call them with bad news....

The model did say that when he regained memory and was insistent in his protest, George stopped. And if he was drugged, getting back to himself enough to drive away within less than three hours is consistent with not being drugged with anything long-acting.

I've had a 'Lude before, and if I'd been drinking with it there's no way I would have been able to drive that fast. Was Halcion out then? Still, that's a six hour sucker. I don't think GHB was a thing then, and i don't know how fast it clears, but I think it's the fastest of anything that would have been available in 1981. Cosby victims all pretty much reported memory loss for a LONG time.

------

So pretty much, unless something comes out where we learn that there's no way George's complete denial of knowing the model is true, or if something in the model's story unravels, I'm going with "There might be a third story that's the actual truth, and the way that kind of thing happens isn't that uncommon. But putting anyone up on a pedestal to the point of refusal to even consider the accusation is wrong, and anyone might have a side we don't know. Even someone we revere."

[pnwmom]

39. The accuser was very specific. He is going public with his real name, and he was 23 at the time,

not 44, 66, or 88.

And four friends, all willing to be named publicly, confirmed that he told them about the incident years ago.

THR spoke to four longtime friends of Brunton — Norah Roadman, Rob Donovan, Stephen Blackshear and Jan Steward — who said that he had confided in them about the Takei encounter years ago.

Why are you mocking him? How do you know he is lying?

[defacto7]

41. That's my point. How do I know he's lying, you ask?

I don't know he's lying. I don't know he's telling the truth. I don't know anything.

And neither do you.

And neither does anyone else in this thread.

Even using one's own unfortunate experience as an example is disingenuous toward the individuals pointed out in this accusation.

Because WE KNOW NOTHING.

[pnwmom]

141. We know that he told 4 friends over the years, and that all 5 of them are willing

to go through public questioning. That's SOMETHING.

And we know (as of last night) that Takei hadn't denied it. His publicist said he wasn't ready to talk about it.

[moriah]

150. Then why the bloody fuck would you insinuate the accuser was on drugs...

... if you didn't "know anything" and weren't trying to smear the victim?

Because fuck, even if he WAS on drugs voluntarily, you still don't try to fuck someone who is feeling ill. You take care of them.

THAT is the bottom line, and isn't disingenuous to anyone.

[defacto7]

152. I didn't

Be well.

[moriah]

157. Reminder:

Was he taking anything else? Maybe he was already stoned?

Be well yourself.

[musicblind]

173. What you quoted kind of proves he didn't say that.

He asked if the reason the alcohol hit him so hard was because he was taking something else or stoned. He didn't say it was for that reason or that the person was doing anything illegal or wrong. I am prescribed Klonopin and Buspar. As a result, I can't drink alcohol. That doesn't mean I "do drugs" and that isn't what the other poster was saying.

All he did was ask a question.

Can we no longer ask questions and use critical thinking in cases like these?

[moriah]

174. .... you are missing the point.

You maybe shouldn't drink. And maybe you know that.

If you do, though, and you get sick from it, and especially if you actually lose consciousness, that doesn't mean you are any more 'down to fuck" than anyone else in the shape you're in at the time.

Edit to add: the big thing is the alleged state of the alleged victim, not how they got there. And I've been served 4-shot Long Islands at a bar -- the article never said what type or size the two drinks were. Truthfully story doesn't sound reminiscent of drugging anyway, Cosby vics from that era reported impairment for a LONG time, dude was able to drive away. More like drinking two huge drinks on an empty stomach.

[Bradical79]

45. Your "test" is stupid

It's particularly dumb and disgusting to keep bringing up age, as if there's an age limit to molesting an unconcious person. If you really want to make a Democrat look bad, just talk like you do, and keep running your mouth defending sex asssault.

[defacto7]

46. It's not my test.

You are totally missing the point. Your comment is also a logical fallacy. Do not insert false statements into my comments attributing them to me.

[Bradical79]

49. You know shit about logic

No one is inserting anything into what you said. You defended sexual assault multiple times using age as a factor.

[defacto7]

55. I'll take that under advisement.

[usedtobedemgurl]

93. The drink/drug count does not matter....

And why should it? I would like to think even if I had a hard day and was tired, and fell asleep at someone's apartment, I would not wake up being molested.

I do not want anyone questioning me about how much I had to drink or what kind of drugs I took for any of my rapes. It does not matter. I can go in the middle of a club, strip down, and fall asleep, and that is not permission for anyone to touch me, let alone rape me!

It is thinking like yours that is a danger to future possible rape victims and people, like me, who are survivors.

Most people who are raped or molested never report it and who are you to judge why we do not? And, for your information, attitudes like yours is the reason I never reported my rape. I never wanted to be raped a second time by people's attitudes about whether I was stoned, drunk etc....Rape is rape. Molestation and assault are the same.

Years ago I was called for jury duty. I really did plan on serving and did not realize the hostile feelings I had for our justice system. I stood up when I was called. They asked if I felt I could be neutral and judge the case on the testimony and evidence. I said no. I stood in front of a courtroom of strangers and recounted I had been raped several times but never reported it because of the court system and how they try the survivors. I recounted how Justice Souter took time out of a rape trial to ask the girl what she was wearing. I trembled talking about how the justice system makes a mockery out of victims and how I would never come forward and I would never encourage anyone else to do so. I asked how I could trust a justice system that does that. I ended by saying shame on all of them. They excused me from duty.

Yeah, sit there and just survivors. It must be nice when you do not have to deal with multiple rapes or molestations. When you do not feel the shame of society and bear its brunt on you as they judge that you should have done this or that DURING the incident and then they judge you, like you are, after the incident and how you handled it.

No one wants to be raped or assaulted. And if you are awake during the rape/assault, something takes over, at times, that professionals call TI or Tonic Immobility. It is the inability of the survivor to do anything except basically lay there. That is a simplification but for someone who is as judgmental as your are about the way someone handles a deep personal crisis, it will have to do. Fortunately, this guy says he felt he could walk away and did not freeze up as some victims tend to do.

it is hard enough for the average person to come forward against another average person and you think a guy being taken advantage of should have come forward.

When you have not been assaulted, or handled it the way you feel it should have been handled, it is easy to judge others. You do not know what someone has gone through until you are exactly in their shoes with what they have bee through in the past.

Stop judging, it is insulting and offensive. What he wore, what he drank, how tired he was, all of this does not matter. If someone has passed out, or fallen asleep, they have a right to expect they will wake up the same way they went to sleep. Passing out is not giving consent.

[usedtobedemgurl]

80. Please, Please, Stop Using That Term, It Is Awful.

I am a rape survivor and I take great offense to you saying "Did anyone consider that because it's between consenting adults...". If it was two consenting adults, it would not be reported. Consent is not something that happens because one person says they want it and the other may be unconscious.

I and my rapists may have been of age for every single rape but that does not mean any of them were consensual. Seriously? Consenting adults?

I do not know why you think allegations of sexual assault equals two consenting adults but, if true, they were not both consenting. And even if the victim did consent, it sounds like he was not sober enough to legally do so.

Words have meanings. I would be deeply offended if someone said my rapes were between consenting adults. That would mean no rape took place at all and that is just not true.

How did you come to the idea they both consented? Why are you calling the guy a liar by saying he consented? I am confused, dazed, bewildered, and angered.

[rock]

73. I tend to agree with you

1) The incident was not immediately reported to the authorities. It is now being reported many years later.
2) Because of this, this means if true he allowed Takei to continue his predation.
3) He presented no evidence other than his story (that applies to his friends that he that told the story to). Now we do not stand a good chance of collecting evidence.

Notice how many of these same themes appear in so many of these stories these days. I'm not making a case that those accused are innocent, I'm making a case there there is so little proof that they are guilty.

[pangaia]

3. I have no clue id this is trie ir not.

BUT. BUT. BUT I have just been waiting to see how soon republicans would start making up fake stories about dems..

[former9thward]

81. Do you think Weinstein, etc are fake stories made up by Republicans?

[pangaia]

138. No

[WhiskeyGrinder]

4. Why are people resisting this story?

[MichMan]

26. Victims are lying for those we agree with politically

The victims must be believed when they accuse someone we oppose.

[tavernier]

42. Because Takei is our friend and fellow democrat

who routinely zings trump on twitter.
We don’t want to believe that he is a perv.
Horrible for the accuser if his account is true. My only thought at this point is that the accused should be allowed to speak in his defense before we jump to any conclusions.

[Loki Liesmith]

52. Resist? I question it.

I question all claims any person makes against another person.

It might be true. Might not. I have no way to know.

This idea that all claims are entitled to belief are true is garbage.

[treestar]

88. Because we like what this guy says about the Orange Toxin

So we think he wouldn't do it, due to his other characteristics.

They don't all have to be true. And the right may have noticed George getting attention for his opinions.

They are all just accusations and this is becoming the accusation to make. The new Communism, as it were.

[Ilsa]

133. Wrong is wrong, and yes, there is victim blaming.

I've been date raped at a guy's home. I left, never saw him again even though he kept calling me and leaving messages. I was mad at myself for being vulnerable around him.

When people see that there is a young man, who went to the older man's home for a drink, they blame the younger man for not being able to fight it off or for going there in the first place. It's wrong to blame the victim, who in this case was incapacitated.

[IronLionZion]

162. Because rape culture is bad for men too

[Matthew28]

5. Wouldn't surpise me

If 90% of hollywood and most of our government is going to be accused of it.

This is going to get really ugly.

[Skittles]

10. where did you get "90%" and "most"

?

[Matthew28]

11. Throwing out a number

Probably closer to 60-70%

Most men do it.

[Skittles]

14. I do not think most men behave inapropriately around women

[bdtrppr6]

29. this man never has

[Skittles]

33. I'VE HAD IT WITH MEN

"liked it too"

the majority of men know how to behave around women - it's a red flag to me when a guy whines he just doesn't know - that's a creep, for sure

[RKP5637]

77. Yeah, I've been thinking the same. A lot of this stuff goes on IMO. n/t

[pnwmom]

7. Here is the story from BuzzFeed. It reports that he's told 5 friends over the years.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/claudiarosenbaum/a-man-says-george-takei-groped-him-while-he-was-passed-out?utm_term=.jnzYpAkKOO#.kf03yRY5AA

[woolldog]

19. I tell all my friends I've slept with Kate Upton...

doesn't mean it's true.

[sunonmars]

34. This, people make shit up all the time for pity....

Media, media, i want my five minutes, too, we live in the age of compensation and mediahounds wanting their five mins of tv time.

I smell crock of shit in most of this. Big difference between children and this crock.

Where will this end.

[treestar]

99. It's getting officially absurd

His timing is that he tells this publicly just when this sort of accusation is being used to bring people down.

It's starting to be the new McCarthyism, and I'm getting over it. We can't beat Roy Moore without this?

The Orange Toxin was heard on tape saying he thinks any woman will let him touch them because he's a star. And he still won.

[a kennedy]

21. OMGAWD......

COME ON PEOPLE......HE’s our mentor. AND THEY’RE GOING TO RUINE HIM WITH THIS SHIT.???

[Pope George Ringo II]

24. I'm curious how this is going to shake out.

I'm either going to be very relieved or very disappointed. He was one of my childhood heroes, and he's been something of a hero to me even as an adult. I hope he doesn't have feet of clay, but the facts are going to tell.

[Loki Liesmith]

54. Odds are you will never know

[Pope George Ringo II]

106. Probably true, especially if it stays a he said/he said situation

But I'm going to have to try to make an informed opinion, and failing that, take my best guess.

[underthematrix]

27. Did y'all read the story?

When the guy told him to stop, George did. This is what you're supposed to do when one party says NO, stop, I don't want to do this.

[blogslut]

28. What if he had not woken up?

I like and admire Mr. Takei but doing that to an unconscious person is not okay.

[underthematrix]

32. I feel the same way but there's nothing in

Last edited Sat Nov 11, 2017, 05:26 AM - Edit history (1)

his story that indicates sexual assault.

He said he got together with George after he and his boyfriend kinda sorta broke up. He said he was looking for "comfort" from George. George "comforting" him and continued to so do after he "passed out." When he became conscious and saw what was going on, he told George he wanted him to STOP which George complied with.

If he hadn't woke up we wouldn't be talking about this.

[Bradical79]

43. Groping someone when passed out is sexual assault

As described, it's sexual assault. It's absolutely disgusting that some of you are defending this.

[underthematrix]

48. I understand. However, the story is not consistent with sexual assault.

[Bradical79]

50. Groped and disrobed when passed out after 2 drinks

It's 100% consistent with sexual assault.

[Lee-Lee]

68. It is Sexual Battery in CA. Here is the law

Quoting CA Penal Code since this is said to have happened in LA.

(e) (1) Any person who touches an intimate part of another person, if the touching is against the will of the person touched, and is for the specific purpose of sexual arousal, sexual gratification, or sexual abuse, is guilty of misdemeanor sexual battery,

............

2) As used in this subdivision, “touches” means physical contact with another person, whether accomplished directly, through the clothing of the person committing the offense, or through the clothing of the victim

[]

[underthematrix]

76. From what I can surmise from the person's own statements, the initial contact was not against

his will. He then said he passed out and woke up with his pants down and George fondling his genitals. He then asked George to stop which George complied with.

If someone walks up to me on the street and grabs my crotch that would be sexual battery.

If someone rubs their genitals against another passenger on a crowded train that would be sexual battery.

[B2G]

79. And if someone tries to have sex with you when you're passed out,

that would be sexual battery.

[underthematrix]

85. We'll have to agree to disagree

[Lee-Lee]

87. The law disagrees with you too

I don’t know why it’s so hard to understand the simple concept of consent.

[underthematrix]

101. I'm glad you brought that up.

The way you determine if a law has been broken is to apply the LAW to a set of facts. You want to apply the law to only part of the facts which is what I take issue with.

A sexual battery may have occurred but we don't know that from the information the person has made available to the press.

[Lee-Lee]

102. Based on the description the person gave and CA law it did

Sexual contact was made without his consent when he was unable to provide consent.

George Takei denies it, but he’s also on record as saying he had done such actions to people before.

[underthematrix]

103. Here's an explanation of the CA sexual assault/battery law

https://www.shouselaw.com/sexual_battery.html#1.3

Restraint is a necessary element of a sexual battery

[Lee-Lee]

122. You should re-read that link you provided because you didnt comprehend it

It even lists examples showing restraint isn’t necessary, such as a dentist who brushes a patients breast intentionally.

Felony Sexual Battery requires certain elements, and restraint can be one of them. Misdemeanor Sexual Battery does not.

[underthematrix]

126. I understood the article

[Lee-Lee]

130. You may think you did

Your statement above proves otherwise.

Misdemeanor Sexual Battery in CA does not require restraint. To claim it does is a lie.

[underthematrix]

131. I was focused on the more serious issue of restraint and whether

intoxication could be viewed as a form of restraint

[Hassin Bin Sober]

121. How did he tell him to stop if he was passed out?

[underthematrix]

129. THe person said he woke up and saw what was happening and

asked George to stop. George has responded to the allegation and said it never happened.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

134. So then he wasn't passed out.

I'm not going to get all bent out of shape on this one.

Been there done that. When I was a young gay man around that age I tended to hang out with guys older than me but I was attracted to guys my age or younger. It made for some uncomfortable situations -- especially with alcohol involved. But I'm not going to claim attempted rape.

[Blue_true]

154. You are desperately splitting hairs. nt

[underthematrix]

164. I understand. But for me the evidence just isn't there

for a sexual assault allegation.

If more information becomes available that challenges my current position I would certainly reconsider my position.

[Blue_true]

153. Wow.

Taking the clothes off a passed out person and groping that person IS SEXUAL ASSAULT.

[NCDem777]

38. But there are some pages missing

Why did the pants come off in the first place?

[Crunchy Frog]

66. When a person is unconcious, you don't start at all. That's sexual assault.

I can't fucking believe what I'm seeing on this thread. I'm seeing things that I've previously only ever seen coming from RWers.

Harvey Weinstein backed down in most cases when his victims said "no". Why the double standard?

[Blue_true]

151. Yeah, but you don't undress them without their permission. nt

[mamas]

30. George will fess up if this is true.

[SandyZ]

31. I doubt he will if there was drugs involved. Otherwise, I would agree.

[Amimnoch]

44. Giving the benefit of the doubt.

23 years old at the time, so a minor isn't involved.

Initially met up at a gay bar, exchanged numbers and had ongoing contact for some time.

On the night accepted an invitation from George for dinner and theater. Went out with George.

Accepted the invitation from George to go back to his place for a nightcap.

George did make a move on him, he told George he didn't want to do this, and George stopped, and he left.

FFS, In 1986 I turned 15 and started getting sexually active. Being gay in 1986 as a teenager was SOOOOO not like being a gay teenager today. There were no networks of support or information. There was no social media where I could meet and talk about things with others like me. I was pretty much on my own to deal with and figure it out. I read this and can't help but think.. DAMN, I wish I'd met just a few gentlemen in the late 80's like George who got the "no means no" mentality. Although to be totally honest, saying no during that period wasn't exactly my strong point.

[Bradical79]

51. You're ignoring the "passed out" part

Passed out after two drinks. Why'd you leave that out?

[Loki Liesmith]

53. Maybe theyre not sure that its true

[Amimnoch]

57. And your leaving out "I must have"

First, according to him, they only had 2 drinks when they got back to Georges place. They went out for dinner and theater. Were those the only drinks they had that night? The article doesn't say, but I'd be surprised if those were the only 2 drinks.

If you've never gone out, had drinks with someone, gone back to their place and had a couple more and have crystal clear memory of every single detail's with no black spots in there. I congratulate you. Wish I could claim the same.

The article also doesn't say, but really.. 1981.. famous actor.. young aspiring actor.. a night on the town, and a night cap back at Georges place.. 2 alcohol drinks at the very end is the only fun time substance partaken of? Possible, but really?

Did George snuggle up with him, and in his hazy state did he respond positively? Possible he just doesn't remember it?

It is very possible he was at least partially responsive during the period he doesn't remember, and the fact that George was quick to respond positively when he did get his moment of clarity is more than enough in my mind to give the benefit of the doubt.

If those 2 drinks really was it, and if George drugged him, and if he was completely passed out, or if George kept pressing on after he said no then yes it 100% was sexual assault.

Hell, if going back to a mans place after a night out, and not remembering all that happened is all it takes to claim sexual assault, I've been sexually assaulted dozens of times in the late 80's and early 90's. Hell, back in those years, if I'd gone back to a mans home for a "nightcap" and he didn't put the moves on me I'd have been a hell of a lot more surprised.

[Doodley]

59. Thanks for the most insightful posts on this thread.

This sounds like a story the guy has ENJOYED telling:

"It is one of those stories you tell with a group of people when people are recounting bizarre instances in their lives, this always comes up. I have been telling it for years."

Who has so much glee when they tell a story of sexual assault? I cannot trust this person. He has milked this story for all its worth for the entertainment of others for years.

[JI7]

61. It's that quote from the accusor ?

[Lisa0825]

148. Yes. It is in the excerpt in the OP.nt

[uppityperson]

167. Have you ever interacted with someone when they were blacked out?

I'm not saying this was the case, but wondering if it has been considered.

People in a black out stage act as they were, it can be very difficult to tell. I know this from personal experience as a young drinker, and from being around a couple friends as an adult. You wake up in a different place or state, not knowing what happened between times. People you were with had no idea you were operating on autopilot.

Again, I'm not excusing this accusation, but it makes me wonder about black out fugues.

[Lee-Lee]

56. I dont get why people are resisting this story

It is really simple.

Sexual contact with a person unable to give consent is wrong.

Period.

End of story.

Doesn’t matter who it is on either side of it, gay or straight, young or old.

It is wrong.

[uponit7771]

60. I the story when the guy said stop George did

[Lee-Lee]

65. Because he came to. When he was passed out he couldnt consent

Sexual contact with a person who is passed out is wrong. Period. Stopping because the person wakes up and says no doesn’t make what you did prior any less wrong.

[uponit7771]

112. You're correct, I read again and it said "I must have passed out". GT ...

... is denying the account.

I wonder why the balance is with this one

With Moore (dating teenage girls), Red Don, Cosby and the rest there were MULTIPLE people coming out that made the accusers accounts more credible.

I'll wait

[HopeAgain]

62. Because people are thinking emotionally and

Don't want to believe somebody who has had so many clever things about Trump did this. My father taught me to understand our heroes could always have clay feet and not to put anyone on a pedestal.

[treestar]

91. It's all accusation

including Moore and the Orange Bloviator.

I would prefer innocent until proven guilty even for them. The mere accusation should not be enough. It is getting to seem like the McCarthy era.

[uponit7771]

114. The difference with those others there were MULTIPLE people with similar account

[Lee-Lee]

165. This attitude that unless more people say the same thing it is questionable

Is exactly why so many victims of sexual assault, sexual harassment and all those other things just stay silent.

“Everybody thinks he is a great guy and nobody will believe just little old me if I say something”.

And it’s why the attackers and abusers keep getting away with it and know they can.

[IronLionZion]

163. Many people believe men can't be victims of sexual assault, only attackers

[samnsara]

58. no no no no noooooooooooooooo

[ananda]

63. It looks as though a row of dominoes is falling helter skelter.

I believe that some of the accusations are true,
but that it's getting crazy now and some people
are just throwing them out there to see if they
will stick or maybe to get attention or for some
other reason.

[Cobalt Violet]

64. he has denied it.

[Sunlei]

67. stop means stop. Crosses the line to assault when they doN'T "stop". Won't let you leave.

or if its an adult with a child like that Judge who took advantage of children.

[Lee-Lee]

69. Also if the person is incapacitated and cant give consent

As seems to be the case here.

[Sunlei]

71. What consent? 'petting' & said, 'stop'. And so it stopped.

Some people learn a life lesson, stop drinking-don't leave a bar for more drinks- over those kind of "shocks".

[FarCenter]

70. Listen to George Takei Seemingly Refer To The Sexual Assault Allegation on The Howard Stern Show

https://www.mediaite.com/online/listen-to-george-takei-seemingly-refer-to-the-sexual-assault-allegation-on-the-howard-stern-show/

Oh my!

After it was reported that George Takei was accused of sexual assault, a clip of a recent appearance on The Howard Stern Show has gone viral of him seemingly describing exactly what he was being accused of.

A former model alleges Takei groped his genitals after he passed out drunk at the actor’s condo back in 1981.

The clip starts off with Howard Stern talking to Takei about the Harvey Weinstein scandal and pointing out the irony that we have a president in the White House (aka Donald Trump) who “bragged about grabbing pussies.”

“Did you ever grab anyone by the cock against their will?” Stern asked Takei.

Takei remained silent.

...

“But you didn’t do this grabbing at work,” Stern’s co-host Robin Quivers asked.

“No, it wasn’t at work,” he clarified. “It was either in my home- he came to my home.”

“So what do you mean?” Stern asked. “You mean some guy who was hesitating to have sex with you and then you gave him a gentle squeeze on the balls or something?”

“More than a gentle…” Takei laughed. “But it didn’t involve power over the other.”

[Lee-Lee]

72. That is Misdemeanor Sexual Battery under CA law

[Amimnoch]

75. George Takei on Facebook feed 55 min ago:

From his Facebook feed 55 min ago:

Friends,
I'm writing to respond to the accusations made by Scott R. Brunton. I want to assure you all that I am as shocked and bewildered at these claims as you must feel reading them.
The events he describes back in the 1980s simply did not occur, and I do not know why he has claimed them now. I have wracked my brain to ask if I remember Mr. Brunton, and I cannot say I do. But I do take these claims very seriously, and I wanted to provide my response thoughtfully and not out of the moment.
Right now it is a he said / he said situation, over alleged events nearly 40 years ago. But those that know me understand that non-consensual acts are so antithetical to my values and my practices, the very idea that someone would accuse me of this is quite personally painful.
Brad, who is 100 percent beside me on this, as my life partner of more than 30 years and now my husband, stands fully by my side. I cannot tell you how vital it has been to have his unwavering support and love in these difficult times.
Thanks to many of you for all the kind words and trust. It means so much to us.
Yours in gratitude,
George

[RKP5637]

78. K&R! n/t

[Lee-Lee]

84. That conflicts with the transcript of his own words just one post above

[treestar]

95. that is why it is not believable

his values.

Not proven against Moore either really, but we know Moore's values, and it fits.

[B2G]

82. Reading some of the responses astounds me.

I can't believe the number of people on this thread who think this was OK or are doing everything they can to excuse/justify this. Victims are only to be believed if we don't like the perpetrator?

It's a slap in the face to every person who survived something like this.

[Lee-Lee]

83. Me too

[SixString]

86. +1

[treestar]

92. It is not OK if proven

[B2G]

96. And how is it going to be proven?

The vast majority of these cases aren't 'provable' unless actual penetration occurs and the victim seeks medical care.

But that doesn't stop us from persecution or exoneration based on our politics and the politics of the accused.

Sexual assault has nothing to do with politics.

[treestar]

97. It's not fair to just accuse people

and then we all say it must be true. I could make up an accusation about some people I knew when I was younger if they were running for office. We can't let accusations alone be enough to condemn a person. That's the very essence of injustice.

It was wrong to never believe a woman who made an accusation in the earlier times. And this was right after it happened. It is equally wrong to make them always right on the accusation alone. The long periods of time that passed are relevant.

This guy is jumping on the bandwagon. This is becoming the new McCarthyism. What happened to the political issues? We can't beat Moore without this type of thing? The Orange Bloviator won when he is heard admitting on tape his view of women, so it doesn't even work.

[Kaleva]

100. If the story is true, then there will be other victims

There were rumors floating around Spacey for years on the internet. When 1 victim came forward, that opened a floodgate.

[Motownman78]

110. The model is a Repub

and GT is a major Liberal figure. Interesting that this comes out right after Roy Moore.

[B2G]

111. How do you know that?

I haven't seen anything about his political beliefs.

Do you have a link?

[AncientGeezer]

143. "The model is a Repub.."

I haven't seen that reported. Could you source it please because that would blow this out of the water.

[Blue_true]

156. If he is the only one, George should be ok.

But if more come forward, trouble for George.

[uponit7771]

115. NO NO NO !! The other perps have MULTIPLE people accusing them making

... one accusers account more credible.

I'll wait

[B2G]

120. Which is exactly why

people don't report.

If they're the first or only ones and the accused is well known or in a position of power, they fear they won't be believed.

God, the inconsistency in here on this floors me.

[uponit7771]

139. Where's the balance then? Thx in advance for any input on this. Trying to learn

[B2G]

142. Well in my opinion,

we should reserve judgment until the act is admitted to or credible evidence is given.

This is a fair minded response to both the victim and the accused.

What I have seen in these threads, however, is blind allegiance to Takei because he is a liberal and the statements that he is not that type of person (because, why?) There are all sorts of sexual assaulters, some of whom are shocking once discovered.

I've also seen an attempt to marginalize the accuser by saying it was consensual, he was drunk, he is a Republican who is out to smear Takei and that it happened 40 years ago, so why is he just now speaking out.

That is wrong.

Personally, I have no idea if this happened or not. I currently have no reason to doubt either Brunton or Takei. So I will not defend or denigrate either one of them.

[BannonsLiver]

118. And i cant believe the number of people who will believe any accusation whatever it may be

As someone else said in this thread it’s the new form of McCarthyism and like that poster I’m starting to tire of it as well.

[Blue_true]

155. Now you understand why rightwing Christians are clinging to Roy Moore.

Admitting that the evidence indicates Moore is a pervert destroys their world view. If doing that is wrong for rightwing Christians, it is wrong for us.

[ChubbyStar]

158. Hyperbolic much?

Conflating Roy Moore with this situation? Really sad.

[Blue_true]

160. Sexual abuse is sexual abuse. Abuse of power is abuse of power.

I don't care whether a person is right or left.

[ChubbyStar]

161. Have a blessed day! n/t

[JCMach1]

89. Time to remember some claims are false

Or, have we forgotten that...

[nini]

105. I am suspicious of this one myself

Time will tell if my gut is right on this one or not. But sadly there will be some false allegations from attention seekers. Real victims do not need others playing games with the type things since it is very serious.

[JCMach1]

107. Also where sometimes we have to step back and wait

And see. If law is involved, let that play out as well.

[BannonsLiver]

116. Lots of people have forgotten that lately

Eagerly. It’s quite bizarre.

[JCMach1]

137. Exactly...

I always tend to having seen what a false allegation did to a friend way back in my college days. It can happen and WHEN it does it's also devastating.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

144. I know a number of men and a woman who were falsely accused

Some of the accusers were squirrels in the attic crazy, some of them were malicious and some of them were mentally handicapped and coerced into making the accusation, but not coached well enough to actually know what the acts they were alleging actually entailed.

I also know of a group of women at a university who were accused of covering-up an assault that occurred at an off-campus party, the allegation* was a total fiction but the university investigated it more than the Kennedy assassination and it got to the point the women's families began hiring lawyers.

I get extremely uncomfortable with demands to pretend this doesn't happen and to accept any and all allegations as true.

* A number of nursing students attended a party at an off-campus bar, at this bar a townie couple was getting a little riled up and one of the women took a picture of them having sex in a booth mere feet away from them and posted it on WebShots among other pictures from the evening and things spiraled out of control from there after a student activist got hold of the picture.

[Greybnk48]

90. He's denied this allegation

and I'm inclined to believe him. He says he doesn't even know this guy. Of all the allegations floating around, based on instinct, this one sounds phony. I suppose I'll be proved wrong.

[cbdo2007]

94. Oh no...you mean he is human and makes mistakes too?!?!

Oh the horror.

I'm glad these abuses are all coming to light and maybe people will start realizing it isn't just bad, scary guys who do this...it is people you would never suspect - trusted friends, family, husband's, son's, etc.

It doesn't solve the problem to take all these guys and suddenly ostracize them for something that happened a number of years ago. The measure of a person isn't to be perfect or else any fault they have will be magnified, it is to make mistakes and learn and grow as a person and teach others to try to better themselves as well.

We support you George as you work to put this behind you, to heal, and to move on.

[MFM008]

119. Not judging

Till more people come forward.
If GT has a pattern he did this more than once.

[Doodley]

123. George Takei is the victim here.

The accuser was a gay guy in the early 80s. He let Takei take him to dinner. I call BS on they only had two drinks. Don't tell me they didn't drink during dinner and/or before?

He then let Takei take him to the theater. Then he chose to go to Takei's condo. What did he expect would happen? It's BS to suggest he thought he was only going to Takei's home for a chat.

He was not drugged by Takei, and I call BS on any suggestion of that or that he passed out, because he claims perfect recall, remembering word-for-word the conversation. He drove home (B.S. he waited to feel better) and in his own words he has bragged about this story for years.

In his words: "It is one of those stories you tell with a group of people when people are recounting bizarre instances in their lives, this always comes up. I have been telling it for years."

Victims of sexual assault do not do this. The guy has no credibility. My wife was assaulted as a child and as an adult. Like other victims she doesn't brag about it as something that "always comes up," "when people are recounting bizarre instances in their lives." She doesn't think of the times she was assaulted as "one of those stories you tell a group of people." George Takei's reputation has been smeared by this guy as a means to tell a great story at bars and restaurants for decades. That is disgusting.

George Takei was the perfect gentleman who took this man out to dinner and the theater and backed away when the guy said no. Beyond that, there is way too much BS. The accuser has not one shred of credibility, and I am sickened that people have already found Takei to be guilty.

[Lee-Lee]

124. Your assumption that all victims of sexual assault behave the same way is wrong

People deal with traumas in their life in all kinds of ways. Some don’t talk, some find relief in talking, so won’t ever shut the hell up.

The rest of your post is equally as off base at trying to discredit the victim.

How do you explain George basically admitting that he did that to people on Howard Sterns radio show?

[Doodley]

128. Takei said that what he did has not been about power over another,

in other words it has always been consensual. He's a gay man and it is legal to do what he described. Where do you get that he admitted "doing that" to people? No he didn't. Again, disgusted at another false allegation.

[Lee-Lee]

132. It is not legal to grope and undress an unconscious person

It’s not even legal to grope a conscious person in Ca, as simple as grabbing the buttocks, without consent.

Your claim the alleged behavior is legal is simply not true.

Here is a link where he talks about doing that:

https://www.mediaite.com/online/listen-to-george-takei-seemingly-refer-to-the-sexual-assault-allegation-on-the-howard-stern-show/

[Doodley]

140. He never admitted to doing anything without consent. Stop smearing.

[obamanut2012]

166. Also, the guy says himself when he said stop, Takei stopped

So, this is not assault. Good lord.

[defacto7]

125. This entire thread is divided into two distinct sides...

Those who side with basic human rights, the rule of law, and the constitution...

And those who choose the anonymous judgements of the Internet.

If we don't choose the first of those two, our future, our freedom will disappear.

[riversedge]

127. Have to admit, I have avoided reading this. damn.

[melm00se]

136. his post on Facebook

Friends,
I'm writing to respond to the accusations made by Scott R. Brunton. I want to assure you all that I am as shocked and bewildered at these claims as you must feel reading them.

The events he describes back in the 1980s simply did not occur, and I do not know why he has claimed them now. I have wracked my brain to ask if I remember Mr. Brunton, and I cannot say I do.

But I do take these claims very seriously, and I wanted to provide my response thoughtfully and not out of the moment.

Right now it is a he said / he said situation, over alleged events nearly 40 years ago. But those that know me understand that non-consensual acts are so antithetical to my values and my practices, the very idea that someone would accuse me of this is quite personally painful.

Brad, who is 100 percent beside me on this, as my life partner of more than 30 years and now my husband, stands fully by my side. I cannot tell you how vital it has been to have his unwavering support and love in these difficult times.

Thanks to many of you for all the kind words and trust. It means so much to us.

Yours in gratitude,

George

https://www.facebook.com/georgehtakei/

[Lotusflower70]

145. Ugh

This is disgusting and sad. I am not going to attack the victim here. There has been more than enough of that. Calling bs because he was an adult and willing when to George's place is not ok. I am torn but I have to consider his side. I love George Takei so this is really tearing me up. In this thread, some people said the victim was bragging to friends about it. Based on what, a victim uses keeps it inside and over time, the dam bursts and the secret comes out. Most people can't keep it inside forever. I know, I am a victim and a survivor. But it's not about bragging or entertainment. Why dismiss the man immediately? Also, there is no consent if he was drugged, not fully aware or said no. There are no kudos for George stopping when he said no. What about George's actions before that? Because he stopped, that doesn't cancel anything else out. Time will tell what else is revealed.

[samir.g]

177. Alleged victim

[Lil Missy]

147. Oh, damn.

[doc03]

159. Well we can't say "if this is true" like the Repugs nt

[Morris64]

168. Go through this thread, and replace Takei with Trukp

Interesting exercise.

[ChubbyStar]

169. No, sorry not interested in your exercise

But please knock yourself out with it!

[Morris64]

170. Kindly scroll on, friendo!

[ChubbyStar]

172. Sure thing Mo!

Your post have me impressed!

[moriah]

171. Not until more people come forward.

Which, if this is a pattern, they will.

Since Trump has had accusations of sexual assault on the record since his divorce from Ivana, tapes, and multiple accusers, it's a little different.

And I'm one of those not entirely convinced the two stories are entirely incompatible with regard to Takei and Brunton. The issue is whether the memory loss was blacking or passing out, as the experience sounds far more like the results of drinking two very liberally poured Long Islands on an empty stomach, not the lengthy loss of time described by drugging victims during that era. It's a risk you take if you don't take sex off the table when a person complains of feeling ill, even if they seem to be feeling better later, that they might not be recording memory.

Please take your right wing talking points elsewhere.

[Morris64]

175. Just keeping myself in check.

I find myself falling into the trap of giving certain people the benefit of the doubt (or not) simply because of their ideologies. I am aware of this, and perhaps I am more flawed than others when it comes to this pre-judging. We aren’t very critical of ourselves here. You bring up good points. I simply find the accusations against Takei to fall right in line with what seems to be rampant in Hollywood. Not need to eviscerate prior to due process, however there is always a victim on one end of these situations.

[bullwinkle428]

176. Is George Takei on record for having bragged about sexual assault?

BACK TO DISCUSSIONIST - NO SOUP FOR YOU!

[Morris64]

178. Yes, the Howard Stern interview was DISGUSTING.