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Was the return of the paper ballot in VA a factor in Tuesday's election or its results? (Original Post) lapucelle Nov 2017 OP
interesting thought!! samnsara Nov 2017 #1
I don't know about VA, but here in NY we've been using paper ballots and scanners... TreasonousBastard Nov 2017 #2
I vote in NY as well. lapucelle Nov 2017 #5
It didn't do any harm. kentuck Nov 2017 #3
I think it possible. Georgia also has easily hacked delisen Nov 2017 #4
No. former9thward Nov 2017 #6
We cant say for certain. spooky3 Nov 2017 #7
You have no way to know unc70 Nov 2017 #8
They also have not investigated if it is happening either, so it is easy to claim there is no proof. SandyZ Nov 2017 #9
So I guess for some the answer to a measured and reasonable query lapucelle Nov 2017 #10

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
2. I don't know about VA, but here in NY we've been using paper ballots and scanners...
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 11:14 AM
Nov 2017

for years now and they have worked just fine.

lapucelle

(18,040 posts)
5. I vote in NY as well.
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 11:22 AM
Nov 2017

It's nice to have the paper trail...
but I do miss the old school booths with the levers and the curtains.

We are so privileged in NY to have polls that are open for 15 hours.

delisen

(6,039 posts)
4. I think it possible. Georgia also has easily hacked
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 11:21 AM
Nov 2017

no-paper trail voting machines and has resisted replacement for years.

I think there is massive disgust with Trump and Republicans around. the country but would like to get a better idea whether, Republican victories prior to 2017 were partly based on voter machine fraud.






former9thward

(31,806 posts)
6. No.
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 11:36 AM
Nov 2017

The people using the type of voting procedures as an excuse for losing -- are doing just that -- trying to find an excuse. There has been no evidence of fraud due to a lack of paper. The only people who put forward that theory will give CT sites as their "evidence". Why do you think the Democratic party, either national or state or any of our candidates, do not endorse these theories? Do you think they are part of a conspiracy to lose elections? I don't.

The reason Democrats won in Virginia was turnout. The Republican candidate for governor received MORE votes than ANY Virginia Republican governor's candidate in the state's history. The reason the Democrat won was because Democrats turned out even more, not paper ballots. Also it helped that the Democratic candidate was a moderate. In fact he stated he voted for Bush both times.

spooky3

(34,303 posts)
7. We cant say for certain.
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 12:13 PM
Nov 2017

Part of the objection to the electronic machines no longer used in VA is that they were unveriable and without an audit trail; by definition, proving fraud is difficult or impossible with them.

unc70

(6,095 posts)
8. You have no way to know
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 12:31 PM
Nov 2017

You and the CT people are roughly in the same boat. There is no way to prove one way or the other if vote hacking happened in VA or elsewhere. The system used for over 15 years in northern Virginia was probably the worst voting technology of all time. No paper trail was only the beginning. It had multiple known problems just tabulating the votes. But worse, it required WiFi to operate, using clear text, and hardwired passwords such as ABCDE, and remote modification of vote totals without any audit trails.

So with barely any knowledge, you or I need only get within WiFi range, use our smartphone to logon as admin, and edit the totals on the screen to anything we want. No audit trail, no indication we had ever been on the machines. There were similar problems with the central tabulating parts of the system.

Even with all the many known problems, VA continued to certify these systems for another ten years. Did anyone ever hijack these systems? No one knows.

I think that it is easier to steal elections by screwing with the voter roles, either by aggressive purging or by direct hacking. Being denied a ballot on a technicality or forced to use a provisional ballot — that is where elections are likely stolen.

As for CT sites, I recommend places like the Brennan Center.

 

SandyZ

(186 posts)
9. They also have not investigated if it is happening either, so it is easy to claim there is no proof.
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 01:17 PM
Nov 2017

lapucelle

(18,040 posts)
10. So I guess for some the answer to a measured and reasonable query
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 01:40 PM
Nov 2017

is a huffy, somewhat accusatory, and absolutely unequivocal "no".

When I posted the question, it was indeed meant as a question. That's why I asked people who might have informed opinions to weigh in. I anticipated answers to the actual question more so than invective about the apocryphal promotion of conspiracy theories.

Voter education and voter turnout are always key. (That's how we managed to turn our red county blue this week.) I worked hard to GOTV both this year and last, as I have for the past 40+ years. We had our celebration, and our small party-sponsored Democratic Woman's Caucus will have its regular meeting this month to start preparing for upcoming primary, ballot initiative, and school tax elections.

Moreover, because some here have raised questions about the counting of the vote in VA and about the practices of some officials who are charged with that duty, I thought it was an interesting question. Mea culpa.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9822821

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