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Sat Nov 11, 2017, 10:59 AM

Was the return of the paper ballot in VA a factor in Tuesday's election or its results?

Calling all experts! Did the paper ballots make a difference?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/paper-ballots-make-a-comeback-in-virginia-this-fall/2017/10/07/724106ec-a92b-11e7-850e-2bdd1236be5d_story.html?utm_term=.966ba85bbd48

https://wtop.com/virginia/2017/09/voting-like-1999-va-jurisdictions-back-ballots-paper/

http://wavy.com/2017/11/07/paper-ballots-make-a-return-across-virginia/

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Reply Was the return of the paper ballot in VA a factor in Tuesday's election or its results? (Original post)
lapucelle Nov 2017 OP
samnsara Nov 2017 #1
TreasonousBastard Nov 2017 #2
lapucelle Nov 2017 #5
kentuck Nov 2017 #3
delisen Nov 2017 #4
former9thward Nov 2017 #6
spooky3 Nov 2017 #7
unc70 Nov 2017 #8
SandyZ Nov 2017 #9
lapucelle Nov 2017 #10

Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 11:00 AM

1. interesting thought!!

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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 11:14 AM

2. I don't know about VA, but here in NY we've been using paper ballots and scanners...

for years now and they have worked just fine.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 11:22 AM

5. I vote in NY as well.

It's nice to have the paper trail...
but I do miss the old school booths with the levers and the curtains.

We are so privileged in NY to have polls that are open for 15 hours.

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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 11:16 AM

3. It didn't do any harm.

Democrats across the nation should demand paper ballots, imo.

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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 11:21 AM

4. I think it possible. Georgia also has easily hacked

no-paper trail voting machines and has resisted replacement for years.

I think there is massive disgust with Trump and Republicans around. the country but would like to get a better idea whether, Republican victories prior to 2017 were partly based on voter machine fraud.






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Response to lapucelle (Original post)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 11:36 AM

6. No.

The people using the type of voting procedures as an excuse for losing -- are doing just that -- trying to find an excuse. There has been no evidence of fraud due to a lack of paper. The only people who put forward that theory will give CT sites as their "evidence". Why do you think the Democratic party, either national or state or any of our candidates, do not endorse these theories? Do you think they are part of a conspiracy to lose elections? I don't.

The reason Democrats won in Virginia was turnout. The Republican candidate for governor received MORE votes than ANY Virginia Republican governor's candidate in the state's history. The reason the Democrat won was because Democrats turned out even more, not paper ballots. Also it helped that the Democratic candidate was a moderate. In fact he stated he voted for Bush both times.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 12:13 PM

7. We cant say for certain.

Part of the objection to the electronic machines no longer used in VA is that they were unveriable and without an audit trail; by definition, proving fraud is difficult or impossible with them.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 12:31 PM

8. You have no way to know

You and the CT people are roughly in the same boat. There is no way to prove one way or the other if vote hacking happened in VA or elsewhere. The system used for over 15 years in northern Virginia was probably the worst voting technology of all time. No paper trail was only the beginning. It had multiple known problems just tabulating the votes. But worse, it required WiFi to operate, using clear text, and hardwired passwords such as ABCDE, and remote modification of vote totals without any audit trails.

So with barely any knowledge, you or I need only get within WiFi range, use our smartphone to logon as admin, and edit the totals on the screen to anything we want. No audit trail, no indication we had ever been on the machines. There were similar problems with the central tabulating parts of the system.

Even with all the many known problems, VA continued to certify these systems for another ten years. Did anyone ever hijack these systems? No one knows.

I think that it is easier to steal elections by screwing with the voter roles, either by aggressive purging or by direct hacking. Being denied a ballot on a technicality or forced to use a provisional ballot that is where elections are likely stolen.

As for CT sites, I recommend places like the Brennan Center.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 01:17 PM

9. They also have not investigated if it is happening either, so it is easy to claim there is no proof.

 

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Response to former9thward (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 01:40 PM

10. So I guess for some the answer to a measured and reasonable query

is a huffy, somewhat accusatory, and absolutely unequivocal "no".

When I posted the question, it was indeed meant as a question. That's why I asked people who might have informed opinions to weigh in. I anticipated answers to the actual question more so than invective about the apocryphal promotion of conspiracy theories.

Voter education and voter turnout are always key. (That's how we managed to turn our red county blue this week.) I worked hard to GOTV both this year and last, as I have for the past 40+ years. We had our celebration, and our small party-sponsored Democratic Woman's Caucus will have its regular meeting this month to start preparing for upcoming primary, ballot initiative, and school tax elections.

Moreover, because some here have raised questions about the counting of the vote in VA and about the practices of some officials who are charged with that duty, I thought it was an interesting question. Mea culpa.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9822821

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