You do not need photo ID to buy a gun

[Hugabear]

If you are buying a gun from a private seller, there is absolutely no federal requirement for the seller to check ID, conduct a background check, etc.

The only stipulation is that the seller must not have any knowledge that the buyer has a criminal or mental background that would otherwise preclude them from buying a gun, or that the buyer intends to commit a crime with the gun.

This, at a time when many states are trying to require photo ID in order to vote...

[edhopper]

1. And 40% of all gun sales

are from "private sellers". Gun shows being a big outlet.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. Any sources to back up your claims?

[ramikin]

8. He is correct.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. Are you claiming to the the source?

[Cerridwen]

19. New England Journal of Medicine

link

<some snippets for you>

Some 85% of all guns used in crimes and then recovered by law-enforcement agencies have been sold at least once by private parties.

...

Today, private parties can buy and sell many guns a year while claiming not to be engaged in the business. Perhaps 40% of all gun sales nationwide — roughly 6.6 million transactions in 2008 — are made by private parties. Moreover, private parties can sell handguns to anyone 18 years of age or older; licensed retailers cannot sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age.

The private-party gun market, sometimes called the informal gun market, has long been recognized as a leading source of guns used in crimes. Although private-party sales are primarily a convenience for the law-abiding purchaser (since they involve no paperwork, no background check, and no waiting period), such sales are also the principal option when the prospective purchaser is a felon, a domestic-violence offender, or another person prohibited by law from owning a gun. Private-party sales facilitate the diversion of guns from legal commerce into criminals' hands: although it is always illegal for certain classes of people to buy a gun, it is illegal to sell a gun to such people only if the seller knows or has reasonable cause to believe that he or she is doing so. Unscrupulous private sellers may simply avoid asking questions that would lead to such revelations.1

These two parallel systems of gun commerce are most readily seen in operation at gun shows, where they operate literally side by side.1 Large gun shows function as the big-box retailers of gun commerce: hundreds of vendors, both licensed retailers and private parties, display thousands of guns and compete for the business of thousands of potential buyers. It is very likely that most gun sales at gun shows are legal. Nonetheless, these shows have repeatedly been identified as important sources of guns used in crimes.2 One ATF investigation of gun-show trafficking involved 10,000 guns that became available for criminal use; another involved 7000.2 In this respect, gun shows may be seen as criminogenic pumps, bringing large numbers of buyers seeking guns for criminal purposes together with retailers or private sellers who will ask no questions.

[CokeMachine]

10. I'd like to see that source as well.

I know that here in CA every legal sale has to have a BG check.

[belcffub]

11. I think NY has BG check as well

for gun show sales... I'm not a gun show person... there are no deals there...

[MrDiaz]

37. i am in texas

i was a gun show 6 months ago and bought a 9mm pistol...i had to pass a background check too.

[obamanut2012]

70. NC -- pistol permit needed and background check

As well as mental health check. No so-called private sales allowed at gun shows. Around here, that'll get you arrested on a big felony.

You need a pistol permit even if it is a PRIVATE SALE.

[Cerridwen]

20. Done. New England Journal of Medicine

link

<some snippets for you>

Some 85% of all guns used in crimes and then recovered by law-enforcement agencies have been sold at least once by private parties.

...

Today, private parties can buy and sell many guns a year while claiming not to be engaged in the business. Perhaps 40% of all gun sales nationwide — roughly 6.6 million transactions in 2008 — are made by private parties. Moreover, private parties can sell handguns to anyone 18 years of age or older; licensed retailers cannot sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age.

The private-party gun market, sometimes called the informal gun market, has long been recognized as a leading source of guns used in crimes. Although private-party sales are primarily a convenience for the law-abiding purchaser (since they involve no paperwork, no background check, and no waiting period), such sales are also the principal option when the prospective purchaser is a felon, a domestic-violence offender, or another person prohibited by law from owning a gun. Private-party sales facilitate the diversion of guns from legal commerce into criminals' hands: although it is always illegal for certain classes of people to buy a gun, it is illegal to sell a gun to such people only if the seller knows or has reasonable cause to believe that he or she is doing so. Unscrupulous private sellers may simply avoid asking questions that would lead to such revelations.1

These two parallel systems of gun commerce are most readily seen in operation at gun shows, where they operate literally side by side.1 Large gun shows function as the big-box retailers of gun commerce: hundreds of vendors, both licensed retailers and private parties, display thousands of guns and compete for the business of thousands of potential buyers. It is very likely that most gun sales at gun shows are legal. Nonetheless, these shows have repeatedly been identified as important sources of guns used in crimes.2 One ATF investigation of gun-show trafficking involved 10,000 guns that became available for criminal use; another involved 7000.2 In this respect, gun shows may be seen as criminogenic pumps, bringing large numbers of buyers seeking guns for criminal purposes together with retailers or private sellers who will ask no questions.

[CokeMachine]

40. Thank you. I'll read it when I get off work.

Have a good weekend!!

[orwell]

13. New York Probe Finds 62 Percent of Private Gun Sellers Sell to Prohibited Individuals

"Federal law prohibits felons, domestic abusers, drug addicts and the mentally ill from buying firearms, and federally-licensed firearms dealers are required to conduct background checks and keep paperwork on their buyers. But unlicensed private sellers -- who account for about 40 percent of U.S. gun sales -- do not have to conduct background checks on their buyers. They are prohibited, however, from selling firearms to someone they know to be a prohibited purchaser."

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/investigation-finds-62-private-gun-sellers-perform-background/story?id=15154436#.UAnDJvUm_mE

Who knows who ABC sourced this from but it does mention the 40% figure.

[michreject]

21. Would this be the same source

that, in a rush to beat the competitors, misidentified the Colorado shooter?

That same source?

[Cerridwen]

23. Or it could be this source. New England Journal of Medicine

link

<some snippets for you>

Some 85% of all guns used in crimes and then recovered by law-enforcement agencies have been sold at least once by private parties.

...

Today, private parties can buy and sell many guns a year while claiming not to be engaged in the business. Perhaps 40% of all gun sales nationwide — roughly 6.6 million transactions in 2008 — are made by private parties. Moreover, private parties can sell handguns to anyone 18 years of age or older; licensed retailers cannot sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age.

The private-party gun market, sometimes called the informal gun market, has long been recognized as a leading source of guns used in crimes. Although private-party sales are primarily a convenience for the law-abiding purchaser (since they involve no paperwork, no background check, and no waiting period), such sales are also the principal option when the prospective purchaser is a felon, a domestic-violence offender, or another person prohibited by law from owning a gun. Private-party sales facilitate the diversion of guns from legal commerce into criminals' hands: although it is always illegal for certain classes of people to buy a gun, it is illegal to sell a gun to such people only if the seller knows or has reasonable cause to believe that he or she is doing so. Unscrupulous private sellers may simply avoid asking questions that would lead to such revelations.1

These two parallel systems of gun commerce are most readily seen in operation at gun shows, where they operate literally side by side.1 Large gun shows function as the big-box retailers of gun commerce: hundreds of vendors, both licensed retailers and private parties, display thousands of guns and compete for the business of thousands of potential buyers. It is very likely that most gun sales at gun shows are legal. Nonetheless, these shows have repeatedly been identified as important sources of guns used in crimes.2 One ATF investigation of gun-show trafficking involved 10,000 guns that became available for criminal use; another involved 7000.2 In this respect, gun shows may be seen as criminogenic pumps, bringing large numbers of buyers seeking guns for criminal purposes together with retailers or private sellers who will ask no questions.

[michreject]

25. That's not the source he used. He used ABC

I take what the NEJM states with a very large grain of salt.

[Cerridwen]

27. Why don't you trust NEJM? (edited)

edited to add: Except the person who quoted the stat wasn't the one who used the abc source.

[michreject]

42. I teach gun safety

And I have disagreed with many of their findings related to guns.

My main disagreement is that I believe that kids should be taught gun safety from an early age, not be afraid of one.

[edhopper]

31. No

I used the ATF.

[edhopper]

16. It woyuld be more acurate to say

only 60% of gun sales are from licensed dealers. And they are the only ones subject to check laws.

http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/pdf/reports/no-check-no-gun-report.pdf

[xmas74]

50. Don't know the percentage sold at gun shows

but do know that in most states (I live in Missouri) no ID whatsoever is needed at a gun show. I saw it firsthand with an ex-he purchased with no ID, no questions asked. And this happened at more than one gun show, from different vendors, in surrounding states.

I also know of a coworker, a convicted felon, who regularly attends gun shows for the same reason. He can't purchase one at Walmart because they'll check his ID but a gun show doesn't require it. I've been to his house exactly once-he has a bit of an arsenal and they were all purchased, legally, at gun shows. (The purchase was legal but his possession is not.)

[Trunk Monkey]

63. No, the purchase was not legal

It is illlegal for a felon to purchase a firearm period.

Colorado requires background checks at gun shows

Edit: I';m curious, if you know your coworker is a prohibited person have you reported him? If not, why? /Edit

[xmas74]

65. We're not in Colorado.

We're in Missouri and background checks are not required.

I'm not going to report my coworker. His felony was nonviolent and many on this board would argue that it shouldn't have been a felony in the first place. (Drugs.) He's never done anything with the weapons, as far as I know, except go hunting with a few. (And that provided meat for his family.)

If he were violent that would be different. Reports would be filed. But he's nonviolent. He's also a very nice guy and I don't feel it's my place to report him.

[Trunk Monkey]

66. The Colorado comment was in response

to your statement that most states don't require ID for a private sale (I will also add that even if that's true I've never bought a weapon in a private sale where the seller didn't require it.)

As for your coworker , I'm sorry there's just not a nice way to say this, but it sound kind of hypocritical to me that you would bitch about felons being able to buy guns sans background checks and then not report (which makes you an accessory BTW) it when you know for a fact that a felon ( I do agree BTW that drug felonies shouldn't be) is in illegal possession of a firearm.

[xmas74]

69. And yet I'd like to keep my job.

I have bills to pay and a child to feed. How well do you think that would go over if someone found out it was me? Not well, I'd say. He wouldn't retaliate but a few of my coworkers are the type you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley. It's best not to cross them.

He knows what he did was wrong. I said it to his face, with the promise that I wouldn't tell. He knows I keep my word.

[Trunk Monkey]

72. Don't get me wrong I'm a hypocrite too

Last edited Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:57 PM - Edit history (1)

because I don't think I'd say anything either but I'm not the one that has a problem with it

Edited text bolded, edited to remove offensive language

[xmas74]

75. I didn't think we were supposed to use "bitch" in any way, shape, or form

here on DU.

As to the rest-I can absolutely be in favor of stronger gun control laws but choose to save myself and my property in the mean time. When the person in question is good friends with a couple of local police officers my reports will obviously do no good. And the person in question also knows why I'm so against it and why it's so personal: there was an "accidental" death of a close family friend from gun violence. I won't go into details but let this be said: if there had been better laws controlling some of the weapons and who was able to get their hands on them, this death would not have happened.

The felon previously mentioned has offered to give me a hand gun on many occasions. He believes that I need one because there are too many people in my area who could hurt me and mine. He's also offered to teach me how to use it, stating that I'd probably be good at it. (I used to participate in archery and was decent back in the day.) As of this time I've refused but thanked him for his offer. He's a nice guy but not someone who I'd want to get on his bad side. That's how you wind up in a hog pen in these parts.

[Trunk Monkey]

76. I didn't know, I'll edit it out

I disagree with you on the idea of gun control but I appreciate your willingness to discuss the issue in a civil fashion.

I apologize for my in appropriate use of that word

[xmas74]

79. Thank you.

That word can get you in trouble here.

I'm not trying to take away guns. I have friends who hunt, own farms, etc-they use guns and use them in a careful, reasonable manner. But they agree that some weapons are just not necessary to protect yourself, your property, or to use for hunting. They're also tired of the so-called "city slickers" coming out to the country every year with no training whatsoever, hunting through private woods and every year shooting at animals that are not deer-sometimes cattle, one year a family dog. Every single year something like that happens.

They also believe that background checks need to take longer, that training should be mandatory, limits should be made, etc. They're sick and tired of people poaching on their lands, stray shots hitting their out buildings and such.

They are multiple sides to this issue. I see it from their side, which is very rural-based, and from the side of the victims.

[Trunk Monkey]

80. If you don't mind let's look at some of these points

some weapons are just not necessary to protect yourself, your property, or to use for hunting

This is a little hard to address given I don’t know which weapons you feel are unsuited for home defense of hunting but the Aurora shooter was carrying a detachable magazine fed, semiautomatic rifle (one pull of the trigger equals one shot) This technology is around 100 years old and includes roughly 75% of all firearms regardless of how they look on the out side. The shooter at VA Tech had 2 semi automatic handguns each with a < 10 round magazine but because he was the only person in the building who was armed he simply use one pistol to hold his victims at bay while he reloaded the next.

They're also tired of the so-called "city slickers" coming out to the country every year with no training whatsoever, hunting through private woods and every year shooting at animals that are not deer-sometimes cattle, one year a family dog. Every single year something like that happens.

There is not a state in this country that will issue you a hunting license unless you can prove attendance at an NRA approved hunter’s safety course Your city slicker hunters by definition have had mandatory safety training and it apparently does them no good there are certain people you can’t train the stupid out of. Now what?

They also believe that background checks need to take longer

An NCIS background check can take up to three days to complete how much longer does it need to be?

that training should be mandatory

See my second paragraph

limits should be made, etc.

Again hard to address since we don’t know what limits you’re talking about, most of the behavior you’ve mentioned in your post is already illegal it would be kinda hard to make it more illegal I can say that if we , as progressives, make any serious attempt to reinstate some kind of assault weapons ban it would have the same effect as is we all went out and voted for R Money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_policy_of_the_Clinton_Administration#Assault_weapons_ban

One year after signing the Brady Law, White House lobbying also played a role in the passage of the 1994 Crime Bill, which included the assault weapons ban. The law banned certain semi-automatic firearms with two or more specific design features, and also prohibited the manufacture of ammunition magazines that held over ten rounds.[9]

Although initially heralded as a victory for Clinton and Democrats in congress, it proved costly.[2] The bill energized the NRA and Republican base, and contributed to the Republican takeover of both houses in the 1994 mid-term elections. Many Democrats who had supported Clinton's gun control measures were ousted, including Speaker Tom Foley. Clinton acknowledged that he had hurt Democrats with his victories.[6]

[xmas74]

81. You mean like this class?

http://www.hunter-ed.com/


It's all online-no classroom experience whatsoever. Not once do you have to prove to an instructor that you can handle a weapon. (That site was directly linked from my state's site-http://mdc.mo.gov/hunting-trapping/hunter-education-and-safety/about-hunter-education)
Oh, and

For that matter, I remember when a friend's child took the course. He said that they didn't even touch a weapon, not one time. And he said the instructor told them the answers to the written test. He's not the only person I've heard of this from-I remember all the way back to middle school when similar actions occurred (and this was in a different part of the state). Everything was really learned outside of the classroom. The classes should actually cover the practical use of a weapon: loading, unloading, proper cleaning and care, responsible use. That's responsible gun safety, not online classes where anyone can take the class for you. And different classes should be offered for different types of weapons. When a person shows proficiency in how to properly handle a weapon then a license should be given-not just from taking a class online.

According to my state's site, they only have five ranges available across the state for use, yet I know the hunter's safety course is taught in every county multiple times a year. I know because they always advertise in local papers. That means that few of the courses actually offer any type of practical firearms use classes, with hands-on instruction.

As to the length of time for a background-it takes a few weeks for backgrounds for people working in healthcare/education, etc. What's the hurry? Why can't someone wait a couple of weeks? In my state if you want to vote you must register nearly 30 days before you can vote. Voting is a right-why not a similar length of time before the approval of a gun? No one needs a gun instantly or even three days later. Try to get someone to explain why they need that gun immediately-there's no real explanation for it.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

71. Not to split hairs...

But while it's illegal for a felon to possess a gun, it's not illlegal to sell a gun to a felon, provided that you don't know he's a felon.

To the point of the OP, private guns sales don't require background checks, identification, or even a simple, "So you're not a felon, are you?" at the time of purchase.

And that's just the organized gun shows. People buy and sell used firearms all the time.

[Trunk Monkey]

73. Still an illegal sale

the felon knows he's a prohibited person and he still knowingly violated the law.

FWIW In Colorado every gun sold at a gun show must have a NCIS check run on the purchaser. It's really not that much of a hassle but it hasn't had any measurable effect on the crime rate either.

DOJ statistic less than 2% of guns used in crimes are purchased at gun shows including gun shows in states that don't require background checks at gun shows

[gregoire]

2. But yet rethugs want to make it harder to vote...

than buy a gun!

We should turn the table on them and take their gun owner registration cards like they're taking our voter registration cards.

[Tejas]

3. Republicans would love to change that, they're looking for members.

Jim and Sarah Brady, former Reagan staff would love for private firearm sales to be registered nationwide, NO EXCEPTIONS.

If you would like to assist these Republicans, feel free to contact www.bradycampaign.org (formerly HANDGUN CONTROL) or the Violence Policy Center at www.vpc.org

[Hugabear]

6. Yes, because gun control is a GOP issue

I don't give a shit if the Bradys were former Reagan staff members. The fact that they support gun control - and those of us who likewise support some form of gun control - does not make us repukes.

Extreme fail logic.

[Tejas]

7. Fine, send them your money.

Free country, your choice, blah

[Hugabear]

26. Extreme fail.

This might be the first time I have ever heard someone try to make the argument that wanting tougher gun control is somehow a "Republican" issue.

[Tejas]

30. Uh, call me crazy but maybe because THEY ARE REPUBLICANS?

By the way, in case you're not following my argument, I'm talking about THE Reagan...Reagan as in Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan signed the Mulford Act into law, these fascists are following in his footsteps, what part of that do you not (want) to understand?

[Hugabear]

33. Because you are trying to equate those who favor gun control with Republicans

Not sure what kind of bizarro world you're living in, but last time I checked, the rethug party was by and large pro-gun. Just because some rethugs favor gun control doesn't mean EVERYONE who favors gun control is marching in lock-step with the rethugs.

Btw...I'm guessing the fact that Brady was SHOT by a mentally deranged person might have had something to do with his anti-gun campaign.

[Tejas]

35. Like I said, they're accepting donations.

[MattBaggins]

36. How much money do you give to the NRA

National Republican Association

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. Gun control is a losing issue for the party

as it should be.

[Trunk Monkey]

64. But it's that same logic I read here everyday

"No true Scotsman (I mean progressive) supports firearms ownership." "If you are pro RKBA you are a Wing nut troll out to take over DU"

Sauce for the goose?

[ramikin]

5. Why on earth would one need to show ID to a private citizen during a private trasaction?

Did you know you can buy a fully automatic suppressed machine gun from a gun dealer without a background check or ID and be legal per the BATFE?

[Hugabear]

18. And you don't see any problem with that at all

You have to show ID in order to register to vote. Some states want to require photo ID at the polling place (a clear civil rights violation, but still indicates desire to make voting more difficult).

But yet you think it's perfectly fine that one can purchase fully automatic machine guns without any form of identification at all?

We have voter databases - even though voting is a right. Do you support a firearms ownership database?

[michreject]

24. Bullshit

In order to buy a class lll weapon, every orifice on your person is checked out by the feds.

There is not a FFL dealer that would let you walk away with a transferred firearm without proper paperwork and him noting all pertinent identification.

[obamanut2012]

45. +1

[CbtEngr01]

61. thats a lie

Kinda sucks to have so many ignorant people making comments on stuff they know nothing about. I know very little about astro physics, so i dont make comments about what is and what it isnt.

A suppressor requires a federal tax stamp.
A full auto weapon requires a class 3 permit.
Both of which you have to have approval from your chief law enforcement official. Both require a lot of red tape. Class 3- congress is involved

[flamingdem]

9. Excellent point nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. Private sellers are not allowed to do background checks etc...

They are specifically banned from NICS usage.

[michreject]

17. As a private seller. and i have sold many guns

There is no way to run a background check. It's not an option.

[Hugabear]

28. Funny, as a private individual, I can run a background check on someone

There's this new device called the internet, I hear it makes stuff like this pretty easy nowadays.

Of course there are fees involved - which you could simply collect from the person wanting to buy the gun. Then again, we wouldn't want to make buying a gun more difficult and time-consuming, would we.

[michreject]

41. No. We wouldn't

I don't need permission to sell my truck either.

Difference between my guns and my truck is that the Government knows I own the truck.

Many liberals owns many guns.

It's not a red/blue issue. Even is some try and make it one.

[obamanut2012]

46. The GOVERNMENT doesn't allow non-FTL to do NCIS checks

It is illegal.

Every gun show I have been to, in a purply state, FORBIDS private sales. All sales must adhere to State and Federal laws.

[sarisataka]

22. The point is moot...

since private citizens do not have access to the NCIS.
Many who are pro-2A, and even the NRA favors a change in the process.

[edhopper]

32. I have never seen the NRA

champion a change in the Gun Show Loophole.

[sarisataka]

34. They would like to see...

well, maybe not 'like' but accept increased checks.
The issue is with 'how' to do them.
Most proposals involve the terror watch list, a waiting period or extensive paperwork for the seller.
The NRA wants a no paperwork, instant check based only on criminal and mental history.

[edhopper]

38. The NRA

stopped the prohibition for people on the terrorist watch list.
I have not seen a single piece of gun regulation they support.
Not even a tracking system for high explosives.
The NRA has no middle ground, only unlimited access to any and all weapons.

[hack89]

77. Do you support the terrorist watch list? The one with Teddy Kennedy on it? Really? nt

[Deep13]

29. You do if it is from an FFL dealer.

That is another reason I hate the "gun show-private sale exception." In addition to allowing criminals to purchase, it undermines legitimate business who do background checks.

[slackmaster]

39. I'm a federally licensed firearm collector. I have never sold a firearm.

I've given a few away, but only to people that I knew very well.

In my state most (but not all) private transfers of used firearms have to be done through a dealer (i.e. someone who has a Type 01 Federal Firearms License), and those transactions are subject to the federal and state requirements for all sales by dealers.

[tularetom]

53. Sounds like you're a C&R licensee

Aren't you are supposed to keep a "bound book" that lists all C&R firearms you acquire and how you dispose of them?

[slackmaster]

54. That's correct, and my bound book is up to date

Every acquisition and disposition for my collection is properly documented.

[tularetom]

55. Chill - I wasn't implying otherwise

Just interested in the process.

In fact I'd like to explore acquiring a C&R license. Since most of the guns I already own are on the BATF list of C&R firearms.

[slackmaster]

59. At $30 for three years, it's one of the best deals our federal government offers

The other best deal is M1 Garand rifles from the Civilian Marksmanship Program. A C&R FFL covers one of the requirements for buying those.

[Brigid]

43. We can stop a 94-year-old lady who first voted for FDR, from voting . . .

or a 90-year old WWII vet, and yet just about anyone can get hold of an assault weapon. This country is pretty much hopeless.

Just yesterday I saw part off an interview somewhere with a guy who wrote a book about how we are becoming less violent, not just here but across the globe. No wonder he says that most people just don't believe him, no matter how many charts and graphs are in his book.

[panader0]

44. I can buy almost any weapon at my local swap meet. AR15's Glocks, you name it. No ID, no questions.

[4th law of robotics]

47. Wouldn't requiring an ID prohibit the elderly

and minorities from exercising their 2nd amendment rights?

[sendero]

48. I do not think...

... that requiring more of a private seller would be an onerous restriction on gun rights. A seller could be required to execute the same form and to call the same background check number before completing the sale as a dealer does now.

I believe in gun rights, and I'm sure the NRA would disagree with me on this point but then I don't care much for the NRA.

[HockeyMom]

51. Getting more difficut to VOTE than to own a gun

That is how the nuts want it.

[dipsydoodle]

52. Does that mean that tourists can buy guns

[cherokeeprogressive]

56. Fair trade: Show ID to buy a gun, show ID to vote.

'Nuff said.

[CokeMachine]

57. But, but, but --

it's a gun -- ID is only required for some BOR thingys. Some rights are only for the 1%ers that can afford them. Try to get into Crawford or the Bohemian grove. I do believe I'm paying taxes (county sheriffs or CHP) for Rush Limpballs security there. Beautiful area except for a couple of weeks a year. Try camping at Casinni (sp) ranch on the Russian river. Even sea lions visit us up there when the beach is breached.

Take Care!!

[REP]

58. This is not correct.

When a gun is sold by an individual to another, the transfer must be made through a licensed gun dealer, who files the background check info form and transfers ownership of the weapon once the check is completed and approved.

At gun shows, this form must still be filed.

[Logical]

60. Not in a parking lot outside the gun show between two private citizens. n-t

[Ikonoklast]

62. Not in my state.

Private sales require zero paperwork, zero checking.

I see guys selling out of the trunks of their cars at every gun show I attend.

[slackmaster]

67. You are referring to California state law - Private transfers are unregulated in most states

HTH

[REP]

68. Kansas too

[Rosa Luxemburg]

74. is this a fed law or state law?

[ileus]

78. I had to shot my photo ID and another ID three weeks ago.

If you haven't shot a SR22p yet....don't. You'll have to have one. Most fun pistol I've bought in years. Just don't expect it to deliver "target" quality groups.