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Bicoastal

(12,645 posts)
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:42 PM Jul 2012

Gun-toting criminals can be stopped by gun-toting civilians. Gun-toting PSYCHOPATHS can't.

The problem with the "someone should have taken this guy out" argument is that, to my knowledge, no lunatic in this country ever thought of indiscriminately spraying bullets inside a movie theater before. I have no idea if anyone in the audience WAS packing heat, but can you blame them if no one thought to? What are the odds that your local movie theater would turn into a bloodbath? And if you HAD a gun--in a darkened theater, with everyone screaming and civilians running, would you have the wherewithal to identify the madman without leaving yourself or your loved ones vulnerable?

People with mental illnesses aren't completely stupid. They may be completely psychotic in their motives, but if their ultimate crazy-person goal is to kill as many civilians as possible, they WILL find a way to do it--and even in a part of a country where conceal-and-carry laws are as laissez-faire as possible, they WILL find a time and place to catch everyone surprised and incapable of firing back. I imagine they devote more time to this sort of thing than any sane person could possibly understand.

And that's a problem that we, as a society, have yet to figure out a solution to. Robbers and burglars get stopped by gun owners all the time, because, ironically, most criminals aren't totally reckless. You CAN go on the defensive against them, because their wish to avoid death or jail time leaves them vulnerable to defensive maneuvers by sensible, law-abiding gunowners. But the reason why very few homicidal maniacs don't get popped mid-spree is because their actions DON'T make sense. They don't care about money, they don't care about making it out alive, and unlike even terrorists, they don't care about making some kind of political statement.

For whatever reason, they just want to shoot and kill. And even if we try to make it a point to be always armed, all the time, everywhere--there's still not a lot we can to do to defend our society against that kind of gunman. At least, not with guns of our own.

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Gun-toting criminals can be stopped by gun-toting civilians. Gun-toting PSYCHOPATHS can't. (Original Post) Bicoastal Jul 2012 OP
Burglars are never stopped by gun owners gregoire Jul 2012 #1
I'm officially pro-Gun Control and I know that's wrong. Bicoastal Jul 2012 #3
The whole "dark crowded movie theatre" aspect wouldn't help, either. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2012 #2
Someone just blew up... orwell Jul 2012 #4
I think it's pretty clear that I don't have any idea how to stop them... Bicoastal Jul 2012 #5
Firstly, I thinks its much to early for the soapboxes. Second, to address the topic, HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #6
 

gregoire

(192 posts)
1. Burglars are never stopped by gun owners
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:46 PM
Jul 2012

I can't remember a single case of that ever happening other than in some right winger's fantasy. Stop trying to justify gun ownership with made-up data.

Bicoastal

(12,645 posts)
3. I'm officially pro-Gun Control and I know that's wrong.
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:52 PM
Jul 2012

It happens frequently. Did you not see the footage of the old dude in Florida who thwarted those would-be stick-up artists?

"Burglars are never stopped by gun owners"--absolutes such as this demean the conversation.

orwell

(7,753 posts)
4. Someone just blew up...
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 04:54 PM
Jul 2012

...some of Assad's inner circle. Don't you think security was tight around that meeting?

If a nutjob wants to take a lot of people out and he/she doesn't care whether they live or die, how are you going to stop them?

Bicoastal

(12,645 posts)
5. I think it's pretty clear that I don't have any idea how to stop them...
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:01 PM
Jul 2012

...and I doubt anyone else does either.

Although a group of politicians representing the opposition in a country torn by civil war is hardly the same as a theater full of American civilians out to see a highly-anticipated movie. One group was in a position to anticipate danger; the other wasn't.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
6. Firstly, I thinks its much to early for the soapboxes. Second, to address the topic,
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:03 PM
Jul 2012

The guy had two handguns, a shotgun, some sort of auto or semi-auto rifle, explosive devices (smoke bombs? tear gas? flash grenades?), and bullet-proof vest. Thats a lot of firepower. Even if a few people in the theatre had concealed handguns, it doesn't seem it would have made any difference. More than likely, in the darkness, smoke, and confusion, even more people would have been shot in the cross-fire - perhaps even the "heros" themselves, by each other or the cops - with a low probability of even hitting the shooter, let alone taking him down.

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