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Fri Nov 17, 2017, 06:23 AM

 

There is a VAST difference between a comedic gag gone bad 11 years ago and a raper of kids!!!

Last edited Fri Nov 17, 2017, 07:01 AM - Edit history (2)

Enough of the god damned false equivalencies! Enough of the typical jelly spined caving! Look, Franken should NOT have done that thing in front of the camera. It was a DUMB thing to do, but we must always, always, always consider CONTEXT in these things. He was a comedian on a comedy tour. It is obvious he is not actually touching the woman. It was a staged gag for the camera 11 years ago. He was goofing around. I'm not excusing it and he should not have done it. It was very disrespectful and it was over the top. And he has SAID so.

Franken has apologized very sincerely, taken full responsibility, and welcomes an investigation. This is NOTHING like Roy Moore who has many women accusing him of very serious sexual misconduct against them when they were teens as young as 14. And then that nasty thing in Alabama is attacking the victims. The Franken matter is NOTHING like that.

Comedians naturally go over the top. Sometimes TOO far. Kathy Griffin went over the top with the Trump severed head gag for the camera. But this is in the context of comedy. She apologized and has expressed regret. But she was not actually trying to threaten Trump.

TIMES CHANGE. What may have been more acceptable as a gag 11 years ago would not be now. Just as another poster says, SO many things on television that were totally acceptable many years ago would not be now, such as how women characters in shows like The Honeymooners, I Love Lucy, and All in the Family were often portrayed. It was very typical to call women "broads" in those times. From shows to All in the Family in the 70's to LA Law in the 80's, the "N" word appeared in certain situations. Comedians like Richard Prior used the "N" word all the time in their acts back in those days. Look at Andrew Dice Clay and his form of comedy in the 80's and early 90's. My goodness, schools like mine in the northeast had "Slave Day" as a fundraiser back in the 60's and 70's. For example, the high school juniors might "buy" the high school seniors for a day and make boys wear dresses, sing silly songs, etc. No one thought of this as a bad thing or that it had anything to do with the terrible legacy of black slavery in past centuries. It was just a fun and silly fundraiser. We also didn't wear seatbelts or bike helmets and rode around in the back of trucks. These things were so common. Today we do not do them. TIMES CHANGE.

So enough of the false equivalencies. We have "PUSSY GRABBER" in the White House. What happened to THAT outrage?? Those who voted for Trump did so AFTER that and all his accusers came forward. Maybe it's time to bring all THAT back up again.

So Franken made a mistake and he needs to make amends. But my god, it is NOTHING like what Moore OR Trump has done. Progressives, don't be taken in here. Don't be WEAK. Don't get sucked into ANYMORE false equivalencies (i.e. "Hillary is as bad Trump." ) And don't let the right wingers get away with being hypocrites AGAIN.

You have Right Wingers all over the Congress and all around the country standing with "PUSSY GRABBER" and singing his praises. My goodness, if he took a shit in their mouths they would call it ice cream. Then they have the gall to go after Franken as they are doing. So if they want to do that, then let's start playing the "PUSSY GRABBER" tape again 24/7. They HAVE NO CASE!!

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Reply There is a VAST difference between a comedic gag gone bad 11 years ago and a raper of kids!!! (Original post)
LBM20 Nov 2017 OP
secondwind Nov 2017 #1
Cicada Nov 2017 #2
LBM20 Nov 2017 #3
hexola Nov 2017 #4
LBM20 Nov 2017 #5
oberliner Nov 2017 #6
hexola Nov 2017 #7
liberal_patriot_md Nov 2017 #10
Kirk Lover Nov 2017 #16
dpd3672 Nov 2017 #8
liberal_patriot_md Nov 2017 #11
LBM20 Nov 2017 #14
oberliner Nov 2017 #9
LisaM Nov 2017 #12
LBM20 Nov 2017 #15
Equinox Moon Nov 2017 #13
LBM20 Nov 2017 #17

Response to LBM20 (Original post)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 06:26 AM

1. We really need to stop comparing the two. You are 100% correct.

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Response to LBM20 (Original post)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 07:01 AM

2. She was there only because her work included nude modeling

Playboy models appeal to troops. So posing in a lustful way doesn’t seem so abusive to me. The whole point of her trip was to generate lust for her. I don’t really think being the object of lust in a public setting bothers her, in general. And Franken did not touch her, his hands were a few inches away. But her claim that he exploited her to kiss her is a legitimate offense. Of course there is a small chance that her right wing political views have made her fib about that. But I think it is likely she is telling the truth.

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Response to Cicada (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 07:07 AM

3. A kiss for a stage act, remember that. Not saying he should have done it. But this is chicken

 

feed compared to Roy Moore. It needs to be taken in the context of comedy and earlier times. Franken is NOT a sexual predator like Roy Moore. It was some dumb and poorly judged over the top comedy behavior 11 years ago.

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Response to LBM20 (Original post)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 07:15 AM

4. Only Women Bleed

 

Yeah - do you think Alice Cooper would have a top 10 hit song with that title in 2017?

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Response to hexola (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 07:18 AM

5. KISS used to encourage their audiences to get high. NOW they tell them NOT to drive

 

while drunk or high, and they don't encourage them to get high. TIMES CHANGE.

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Response to LBM20 (Original post)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 07:43 AM

6. The woman claims Franken forcefully kissed her without her consent

 

On the day of the show Franken and I were alone backstage going over our lines one last time. He said to me, “We need to rehearse the kiss.” I laughed and ignored him. Then he said it again. I said something like, ‘Relax Al, this isn’t SNL…we don’t need to rehearse the kiss.’

He continued to insist, and I was beginning to get uncomfortable.

He repeated that actors really need to rehearse everything and that we must practice the kiss. I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me. We did the line leading up to the kiss and then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 07:47 AM

7. The kiss is the real offense - the photo is sort of backfiring

 

The photo does seem to be nothing...and is probably giving Franken cover.

The forced kiss is the weird thing...but it gets overshadowed and underplayed because of the photo.

Without the photo - Franken would be in worse shape - since all we would have is our imaginations

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Response to hexola (Reply #7)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 08:23 AM

10. The story is the key.

And it’s being disputed by Franken’s military escort on the tour.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 09:44 PM

16. If It was without consent then why does she say this .... I said OK

 

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Response to LBM20 (Original post)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 07:48 AM

8. The difference isn't as important as the optics

 

which are horrible.

Short term, it takes away the momentum and moral high ground against Moore, for the moment, which is likely all it was intended to do.

Long term, it paints Al Franken as a somewhat vindictive misogynistic bully, which is going to hurt his political career, and may even end whatever shot he had at the White House.

In the game of politics, this was a touchdown for the right. If it weren't, it wouldn't be the leading story on the networks, and the topic of half the discussions on this and other political forums.

Interesting times we live in, for sure.

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Response to dpd3672 (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 08:29 AM

11. If you think

We lose our moral high ground to a guy who was banned from malls for creeping on teenagers, and there is some equivalency to a single uncorroborated account - then there is no high ground to be had.

The only reason this hurts us as Democrats is that we care about sexual harassment and abuse. Trump is in the WH because Republicans really don’t care unless they can smear liberals. And we let them.

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Response to dpd3672 (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 09:42 PM

14. And Trump is on tape talking about pussy grabbing. PLAY IT AGAIN SAM. The Right has NO CASE!

 

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Response to LBM20 (Original post)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 07:51 AM

9. "Times Change" is not really a good argument

 

In my opinion.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 09:00 AM

12. Times *do* change, but 11 years isn't that long ago.

I'd have thought this was much earlier.

Anyway, example of changed times, 20 years ago I used to do a lot of lap swimming, and let me tell you, men used that as an excuse to grope. There was one guy in particular who could not keep his hands in his lane. If he was there, I would move over to a slower lane - less exercise for me - to avoid him, figuring there was no point in saying anything. I think women now would call him out. I probably should have but wouldn't have expected anyone to even care, and I think it points to a kind of resigned acceptance we all had.

I wouldn't say it traumatized me but it caused me to alter my behavior, AND, I never forgot it.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 09:43 PM

15. Context is always very important. There are levels of things and there is ZERO equivalency between

 

Franken and Moore. ZERO.

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Response to LBM20 (Original post)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 09:24 AM

13. Why is this about COMPARING sexual misconduct toward women?

I think the issue is how men view women in the first place and their sexualizing treatment of women. Period. The acts vary. The person varies.

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Response to Equinox Moon (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 09:45 PM

17. All mistreatment of ANYONE is wrong. But there are DEGREES of things. I am talking about

 

these f-ed up false equivalencies that need to END!

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