The Next 48 Hours Summarized For You in One Short Post

[kpete]

The Next 48 Hours Summarized For You in One Short Post
By John Cole July 20th, 2012

R- Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.
D- Yes, but guns make it very easy to kill people in large quantities. He would not have been able to stab 71 people.
R- Stop trying to politicize this tragedy! What we need are not fewer guns, but more guns. If only someone else in that theatre had had a gun, they would have been able to stop him in his tracks.
D- Yes. Nothing could go wrong with crossfire in a dark theatre. This is absurd. There is a clear lesson here, and we need to do something about the ease with which people get firearms.
R- There’s no lesson to be learned, the guy was crazy. You can’t stop every crazy person.
D- We could try to make it harder for crazy people to walk around with a shotgun, a rifle, two handguns, and gas cannisters.
R- I knew Obama and you liberals were coming for our guns. Second Amendment!

And after 48 hours, the topic will die down as me move on to the next scandal/tragedy du jour, and then we can have this same exact conversation again the next time someone murders a dozen people with a gun.

http://www.balloon-juice.com/2012/07/20/the-next-48-hours-summarized-for-you-in-one-short-post/

[Skittles]

1. there is no debate with paranoid gun nuts

the NRA has them brainwashed the same way Fox News brainwashes conservatives

[DainBramaged]

16. There is the ignore list

I will not attempt conversations with these people, THESE PEOPLE, any longer.

[DainBramaged]

86. Most will be gone within a month, they said their peace and now go back to chest thumping

amongst their Neanderthal buddies.

[morningfog]

84. Same here. If I want their perspective, I can troll RW sites.

My ignore list is growing quickly. I am considering putting up a post requesting they respond so that I can add them to ignore.

[abelenkpe]

65. So true. Nt

[Tejas]

2. Brady Campaign thanks you.

www.bradycampaign.org/

Be sure to stop by and make a donation.

[Cirque du So-What]

4. Good line

It deserves a spot in the OP's dialogue...in the 'R' category.

[Tejas]

7. Hey, you want to share ideals with them that's your call.

If that's the case, you can also visit www.vpc.org/

[HankyDub]

29. and if you want to share ideals with Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin that is your call.

But I advise that you take a shower afterward.

[11 Bravo]

3. I think that pretty well sums it up. (And I'm a gun owner.)

[Mojorabbit]

31. I agree, it does and I am a gun owner also. nt

[xtraxritical]

78. Are you a member of "a well regulated militia"?

[CakeGrrl]

5. That's pretty much the back-and-forth I've seen in comment threads

[trof]

6. nailed, kpete. K&R

[lunatica]

8. You can shorten that to 24 hours or less

All your points have already happened, and the murderous shooting was just at midnight, last night.

[Tejas]

9. dancing in the blood started 3hrs after the shooting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=52075

[baldguy]

60. And the RW gun massacre apologists started replying almost immediatly.

[Tejas]

63. I think Charlton Heston is still dead, have any links?

[baldguy]

68. Your link is sufficient.

Or did you not bother to read the thread?

[Tejas]

70. I don't see where you pointed out any RW gun apologists?

You even have posting priviledges in the Gungeon, respond to them directly.

[baldguy]

72. Ah, I see. You *didn't* bother to read the thread.

Or... maybe you're just blind to the RW gun massacre apologists posting there? Yes, that must be it.

[nxylas]

69. You can have this image from my Facebook news feed

I was going to post a response, but as others have said on this thread and elsewhere, arguing with gun nuts is like talking to a brick wall.

[Tejas]

71. I bet you're a hit at funerals.

[AndyA]

10. Upcoming media focus: Kim Kardashian tragedy! ________ (fill in the blank)

Coming in 1...2...3...

The media will tell us what we should be paying attention to.

[flamingdem]

11. NOT just Republicans

I ran into many regular posters who took the side of R against my D today.

No wonder nothing changes. A sad reality of American culture is that guns are more important to most than stopping gun violence.

In my opinion guns should not be used for sport unless a person is fully vetted. Even then that person should be a member of the community that is working to curtail violence.

Many here just don't want to be told what to do with their dear guns so they use R justifications not copping to the fact that they ARE the gun lobby.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

13. KnR for your POST as well as for the OP.

[apocalypsehow]

12. True, but for the debate on DU you'll need to replace "R" with "pro-gun progressive."

Or not.

[flamingdem]

15. Good grief, I didn't know until today that we've got gunsters to this degree here

I saw this kind of thing over Nuclear Energy - the swarm of attacks by somewhat regular posters here if one says anything negative ... but the gun gang here at DU is new to me.

In my post exchanges today I learned nothing from them, people who are intelligent but cannot sustain a volley about guns without inaccurate or false info.

Surprising..

[apocalypsehow]

22. Yes, tragedies like this always flushes them out of their hidey hole down there,

eager, anxious & willing to get the NRA's talking points on the record for any given massacre. A churlish bunch, as a rule (there are exceptions), they are also hyper-sensitive to the slightest "insult" or perceived slight; so while on the one hand they project an online image of being sophisticated Matt Dillons - cool, knowledgeable, in control - they also spend a good deal of time wearing out that "alert" button, and whining it up to juries.

The OP actually summed up how such conversations go, as a rule. It's all about more guns in more hands in more places as the solution to anything.

[flamingdem]

24. Hidey hole

LOL I love the imagery of them popping out of their gunster hole.

However, people like that unnerve me and I'm glad I've stayed anonymous on DU in this case!

I've had to be on jury for some fights there and it was a bit difficult to figure out their interactions. I
think regular members go to their spot and mess with them for fun sometimes. Not sure though.

[Paladin]

46. Nicely Put. (nt)

[NOIBN]

14. But, we are not talking about Raw Money's taxes anymore.

[FailureToCommunicate]

34. That was my thought also: what evil f*ck could be smiling this morning? Romney!

(Also, I know you're not new here, but thanks for awakening and posting)

[Plucketeer]

17. What's the difference between this shooter and one of the 19 that flew planes into the towers and

the Pentagon??? Shouldn't he be whisked off to our island purgatory called Guantanamo???

[BlueCaliDem]

28. But he's a 2nd Amendment Raaaahts "Murican", and damn it, he'll be defended

because some Americans luvs their guns MUUUUUUUCH too much.

Besides, those people who were killed and injured, well, they should've armed themselves, too, right? And then there's that "well, it didn't happen to me!" or "it wouldn't have happened to me!".

Had they taken advantage of Colorado's concealed weapons law, they'd be alive today, wouldn't they? Seriously, this is what I'm seeing everywhere as defense against any and all changes in gun laws and in defense of the National Republican Association.

[Ruby the Liberal]

18. How about we just come for their bullets then.

I don't get what the problem is with LIMITS.

[thucythucy]

53. Or the body armor?

Is body armor now considered protected under the 2nd amendment?

[47of74]

19. This should be changed to R+DINO

[Mojorabbit]

32. No it should not. nt

[47of74]

39. Why not?

These DINO jerks are the ones who sabotage everything, using the D label so that they can get laid all while supporting GOP crap.

[baldguy]

61. +1000. Elephants in donkey skins.

Only the less intelligent elephants are fooled.

[The Magistrate]

20. Fair Enough Summary, Ma'am

[YOHABLO]

21. Oh, just another day in Paradise !

called the U.S.A. Bat shit crazy gun freaks .. called the NRA ought to be shaking in their combat boots. Isn't it time to enact REAL gun control laws? We can't go see a movie now, nor go to school. Who knows, it might be your local Starbucks. Any young kid who obviously has a mental health problem, and feels marginalized by society, can just walk into a gun shop and buy enough guns ... oh and a canister of tear gas (?) Go into any public place, say a darkly lit movie theater, and start blowing people away. We live in the most violent country in the world... most violent ... most violent ... most violent.

[sybster1000]

23. WEll..not the most violent..Columbia is 2 countries ahead of us

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

But we are pretty damn close!

[Electric Monk]

25. Funny enough, I was just reading those exact same arguments in a thread in LBN

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=171761

except some were pretending it was

D-
D-
D-
D-
D-
D-

[rocktivity]

26. The Onion: Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out

Americans across the nation confirmed today that, unfortunately, due to their extreme familiarity with the type of tragedy that occurred in a Colorado movie theater last night, they sadly know exactly how the events following the horrific shooting of 12 people will unfold.

Additionally, sources nationwide took no pleasure in confirming that some sort of video recording, written material, or disturbing photographs made by the shooter will be surfacing in about an hour or two.

"I hate to say it, but we as Americans are basically experts at this kind of thing by now,” said 45-year-old market analyst Jared Gerson, adding that the number of media images of Aurora, CO citizens crying and looking shocked is “pretty much right in line with where it usually is at this point. The calls not to politicize the tragedy should be starting in an hour, but by 1:30 p.m. tomorrow the issue will have been politicized. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if the shooter’s high school classmate is interviewed within 45 minutes..."
"It's like clockwork," said Gerson, who sighed, shook his head, and walked away...

link


rocktivity

[ladym55]

81. I was thinking about posting this Onion link

The Onion nailed it ... in a very uncomfortable way.

We need a rational discussion here, and that can't even happen on DU. It's very upsetting.

[Speck Tater]

27. The simple fact is...

human beings, as a general rule, never do anything about anything, whether it's global warming, government corruption, unregulated weapons, massive fraud committed by the wealthy, voter suppression, the right wing noise machine spewing lies 24/7. It doesn't matter what's wrong, we, as ordinary human beings will, in the final analysis, do absolutely nothing about it, and things will only get worse until the species goes extinct, a victim of it's own stupidity.

[yardwork]

30. Meanwhile, not one politician will suggest improving the mental health system in the U.S.

[man4allcats]

33. On the other hand, given that we apparently can't stop this lunacy,

we could just execute the little bastards every time they do it. After 50 or 60 of them are fried or lethally injected, maybe they will get the idea that it's really not worth it. And even if they don't, what have we really lost except 50 or 60 pieces of society's shit?

[jeff47]

37. Yes, the threat of execution really works against suicidal maniacs.

[man4allcats]

38. Fry the bastards. n/t

[thucythucy]

55. Kind of hard to do

when so many of them commit suicide in the immediate aftermath of their attack.

[man4allcats]

83. How fortunate for society. n/t

[man4allcats]

85. Fry them.

Each suicidal maniac out of the way is one less we have to worry about.

[_ed_]

40. Great Idea!

Our legal system never makes mistakes!

[man4allcats]

42. Fry the bastards. n/t

[baldguy]

48. Like Richard Jewell?

[man4allcats]

82. Richard Jewell was innocent.

There is absolutely no question whatsoever that Holmes is guilty. Fry him.

[baldguy]

92. And at the time there were many who ABSOLUTLY KNEW he was guilty & said "fry him."

The trouble with the death penalty is that you can't take it back if you're wrong.

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. Given how effective the death penalty has been

[man4allcats]

88. It's a stepwise process.

If they are undeniably, unquestionably guilty, execute them. Just as it is impossible to stop dogs from taking a crap in the park, so it is also impossible to stop homicidal maniacs from doing what they do, but that doesn't mean we should stop cleaning up the mess.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. Since we have executed innocent people

And life, no parole, is actually cheaper.

Point is, might make you feel good, but the threat of death has zero effect on criminals.

Also, it is a great violation of internationally recognized human rights to execute the mentally insane.

Now question, you know why Loughner has not seen anything beyond a competency hearing? I don't mind. He'll remain away from society regardless.

[man4allcats]

90. Tit for Tat.

This could go on endlessly. If it were up to me, James Holmes would be executed for his actions. I have no interest in his mental state. We all have problems, but not all of us slaughter innocent people when we feel confused. That aside, I will admit your arguments have some merit. Nevertheless, I still personally maintain that in cases such as that of Mr. Holmes where the killer is unquestionably guilty, the death penalty is both warranted and justified. Execute him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. You may not

But most civilized countries do not cut hands either.

[JohnnyRingo]

35. A lot of liberal Democrats have firearms.

The gun debate isn't Republican vs Democrat or liberal vs conservative. While the right consistantly argues for less regulation, the left is fairly divided.

I personally would just like to see a return to the days of background checks, waiting periods, and registration. I agree with Ron Reagan today when he said they should be regulated like cars. Proficiency tests, a clean bill of mental heath, and and permits should not be seen as violation of the 2nd ammendment.

I wouldn't try to disarm this dyed in the wool liberal:

[Remmah2]

44. +1

Nice.

What's a hose clamp doing on a .30-30? Must have something to do with being regulated like cars.

[valerief]

36. Remember all those shootings in the 90s? Took talk away from the Contract on America congress.

Mittney must be smugly smiling now.

[coalition_unwilling]

52. If the 1% feel anything -- assuming, that is, that a gang of socio- and psychopaths

can actually 'feel' (a questionable assumption at best) -- it is amusement at how easily an attack by one member of the 99% on other members of the 99% distracts them from the perfidy and treachery of the 1%.

[valerief]

62. Hence MIHOP as a political tactic. nt

[jp11]

41. It could've been summed up by watching cable news for 1hr that's what's been

going on the past 24hrs and will continue into sunday if not a day or two longer.

[Remmah2]

43. Maybe it's not an R&D thang anymore.

The world is more complex and the silent have stopped being silent.

The media no longer controls who gets the sound bytes nor do they dictate the agenda.

[baldguy]

45. What strikes me is that RW gun massacre apologists will bend over backwards

& tie themselves in knots to avoid acknowledging the simple fact that too many guns allow mass murders to happen with appalling regularity.

[valerief]

47. Yes. They're very defensive of their steely phalluses. nt

[turtlerescue1]

49. Sometimes the simplest ideas are worth really taking serious.

What makes this incident exceptional is the degree of planning Mr. Holmes went into, and that MAY change the impacts, one can hope. This "brightest of the bright" young man may have more than one motivation. The oddest was that he surrendered without drama.

All of us know the Right to bear arms will never be altered, the numbers that will never allow deeper background checks will never decrease. And in this instance, the "suspect" would pass even the deepest checks. Its not the guns, its the damned bullets. If we cannot change the other aspects, can we at least limit the amount of ammunition, so much per six months or yearly? I keep posting to quit making the bullets, but it sounds so silly- but it takes a lot of the arguments off the table, and just maybe THIS could get 'by' the NRA, gun owners and a vast number of Americans.

If we can't stop the bigger pieces, MAYBE we can start with the bullets.

When someone first made the statement about quit making so many bullets, I also sneered. That was years ago, and the longer the thought continued, the more possible it became.

It would be a place to start. If someone had to actually make their own bullets, it would at least slow down folks like Mr. Holmes amounts. Maybe time enough for someone to become suspicious.

[Doctor_J]

50. Sadly, a lot of the "R" half of the dialog will be uttered by "D's"

at least they call themselves D's. though their heroes are mostly R's

[zbdent]

51. "crossfire in a dark theatre" ... don't forget

the "smoke grenade" or whatever which clouded the area, and the surround sound which made the onscreen shooting sound like the real shooting ...

[thucythucy]

56. And the fact that he was wearing body armor...

might put also a bit of a crimp in the "if only someone else there had had a gun" argument.

[99Forever]

54. I was with you almost to the end...

...only I'm not so sure that the public's disgust ins going to "doe down" this time. This hit WAY too close to home to just pass it off. There are darkened theaters in almost every town in America. Those victims of this GUN-TOTING ASSHOLE, could have easily been any one of our family members.

I for one, REFUSE to "be quiet" about the fucked up people that have ongoing love affairs with instruments of death. Fuck their "hobby." Fuck their "sport." Fuck their "collection." If they can't keep their ilk from mass murdering the rest of us, then they need their Phallic Replacement Toys taken away.

[obxhead]

57. You missed the politician angle "terra"

I've already heard on the radio how we need to think about better security in theaters.

If I can't sneak my 2 beers in with me, I'm not going anymore.

[Irishonly]

58. Excellent

It is the same dialog every time.

[Chorophyll]

59. All of the "Rs" I've spoken to have been here on DU.

Go figure.

K&R anyway!

[ca3799]

64. and

"D- We could try to make it harder for crazy people to walk around with a shotgun, a rifle, two handguns, and gas cannisters."

I thought there was an AK-47 and 6000 rounds, too.

[cliffordu]

66. Yep.

I hate to admit it, but I am strangely numb - or maybe just indifferent - to the hysterics on both sides after something like this.

[Zoeisright]

67. Yep, right wing Americans are insane.

[caseymoz]

73. I don't know.

This is going to hurt the movie industry, and perhaps devastate the cinema industry.

Gun violence has never threatened the entertainment industry or the media before. In fact, they've made a lot of money off guns and gun violence.

So, let's see what happens now that people might hang back from watching a first run movie for fear of being shot.

Let's see how much momentum pro-gun arguments can have now that the media might not be pushing it in subtle ways.

[Peace Patriot]

74. Why do hunters and self-defenders need assault rifles and fast-action clips that...

...can shoot dozens of bullets in seconds?

The lethality of the weapons that this shooter legally purchased gave the victims--a packed theater audience--little chance to escape or evade, and of course, no chance for those who died and will die from their injuries. His ability to kill many people quickly is why there are so many dead and injured.

It seems to me that--given a real democracy, not this "TRADE SECRET" code-in-all-the-voting-machines, corporate-run sham we're looking at--this could be the basis of a compromise as to regulating guns. You don't need an assault rifle to kill a deer. And you don't need multiple, high-powered weapons to defend yourself.

I've been in despair about this issue since I lost a loved one in the first such "senseless" mass shooting in this country--the Texas Tower sniper in 1966. NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE to prevent such horrors happening again and again--not as to the availability of mass murder weapons, nor as to health care especially for the young, nor on any other front including government/corporate fostering of a climate of fear, alienation, militarism and war, with the war on Iraq the most obvious example but perhaps the "war on drugs" the most sneaky--and yet more socially destructive--aspect of this propaganda.

Anyway, I put this forward as a basis for discussion, and--if we ever get our democracy back--a basis for serious, anti-mass murder regulation, between gun advocates and gun haters. I am in the latter camp. I want all guns and all weapons--and of course war--banned worldwide. But I have had at least one family member who disagrees (he lived in a violent urban area) and I live in a rural area where hunting is part of the culture for some and I cannot say that hunting with bullets is immoral and leads to mass murder although I wish they would use bows and arrows and other skilled means that give their game a chance. Why assault rifles? Why high-powered, mass killing cartridges? Why multiple, high-powered guns and rifles? Why scopes and other sophisticated technology that give the hunted no chance?

I also have some sympathy with 2nd Amendment arguments, although I think that our Founders would be absolutely appalled at what their approval of a "citizen militia" has turned into--the loss of civilization itself. They did not intend THIS.

[liberalhistorian]

79. I'm sorry for your loss in the Texas Tower

massacre. I was only 18 months old at the time, but a good friend of my parents lost his college-student son there when he was trying to help a pregnant woman hide from the bullets so I grew up hearing about it. I often thought about it when I'd be walking across my own college campus nearly twenty years later.

The first one I really remember is the one at the California McDonald's in the early 1980's ('84, 84, 85?) I remember the guy told his wife he was going "hunting humans" and she tried to alert the cops but didn't know where he was going and it was too late. There was far more of a sense of horror then about these things than there is now. Thanks again, NRA.

[Loge23]

77. Teddy bears, "iconic" images, and more hand wringing.

The media has these semi-regular "breaking news" tragedies down to a recurring series.
There's the obligatory "iconic" images - a kind of visual Schadenfreude of victims next-of-kin in the throes of their worse nightmare. Do we really need to see this? The real event here is the horrendous death of their kin and the real pain that the living deal with. Apparently the MSM has settled on the top three images from this event. I hope the survivors that are being used for these images demand a fortune for the marketing.
Then there's the obligatory gathering of the teddy bears as impromptu "memorials" pop up at the site providing the next week of more "iconic images".
Of course, there will be no shortage of media talking heads shaking their empty heads for effect and offering up false sympathy for the "next big event" of their pathetic lives.
After a week, these same heads will roll out their own political justifications for their opinions - not to rush this against their initial false sympathy campaigns.
The politicians, irritated by the event interrupting their uselessness, will check the winds before flying their particular brand of bullshit.
The NRA will emerge from their undisclosed location after a suitable absence and see to it that nothing changes that prevents a person from buying an assault rifle or a glock in a Sports Authority or Gander Mountain "sporting goods" store: emphasis on "my cold dead fingers".
The rest of us will wait until the next time we become "stunned Americans" (really, we're not) and unfortunately that wait probably won't be long.

....and absolutely nothing will come of this to help prevent the next outrage.

[liberalmuse]

80. I think you've pretty much summed it up.

And it is true that there is no arguing with gun fetishists. Guns are almost like a body part to them. I work with a gun nut and both her and her husband have pulled their rifles on people simply because they were near (not on) their property. My cousin who used to be sane married a millionaire right wing nut and now they bury their guns in the back yard (without even wrapping them) because they are both convinced that Obama is going to take them away. Gun nuts think they have more of a right to own guns than American citizens have the right to walk down the street without being gunned down. They want to be able to walk into a Wal Mart and buy their guns, ammo, and even AK-47's without question. Fuck them. Fuck their guns. I'm so fucking sick of the NRA, their idiot members - all of them, and every single fucking person in this country who feels the need to own a weapon solely created to snuff out the life of living beings. The intent of owning a gun is to kill. That is essentially what they want to have the right to do at any time. They have blood on their hands. They are active contributors to the very culture that breeds mass shootings.

Shit - that just came out. I'm so angry right now. Never thought I believed in this, but gun control all the way.