General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFranken is a trap and it's lose-lose for us.
A couple of different ways this might all go down.
1) There's an investigation and Franken is found to be a serial creep. Seems unlikely, but it's out there. We lose a Democratic lion in the Senate who has been a very strong and loud voice standing up against GOP appointees and policies. I'm sure we'd all like to think that this would allow us to bring down other big name molesters (like Trump himself), but we all know that the right wingers do not hold their people to the same standards that we do ours.
2) The women are discredited and the allegations are found to be entirely spurious. This allows the GOP to paint the accusers of people like Trump and Moore as spurious as well, even though a) the accusations are nowhere near the same severity and b) they are well documented and not anonymous. And the media will report it as a "These ladies over here have been debunked, what does that mean for Trump and Moore's accusers?" This has the add-on effect of pushing real accusations of molestation and assault back underground just as women were starting to make some headway exposing well-known (within their industries) molesters like Harvey Weinstein, Louis CK, Andy Signore, and Brett Ratner.
3) Something in the middle. Franken is determined to be a slight creep. He apologizes, issues a statement, everyone moves on. The right uses this as a way to shield their much bigger, more dangerous, and horrific creeps with a "Well, you kept yours in power! Why shouldn't Moore be in the Senate if you're not going to deal with Franken?" and they get to bash us over the head with it in the next election cycle.
The good news: There is a hint that people are starting to get a bit fed up with the lies, obfuscation, moralizing, and moral relativism of the right. That is where the real change is going to come from. Bubbling up from the ground as voters decide that they've had enough of being obviously lied to in order to enrich the already mega-wealthy.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Bizarro world.
Saviolo
(3,280 posts)As the lying liars from the GOP and their defenders can use it to paint the accusers of Moore and Trump as possible liars, too. It would be enough to muddy the water a great deal
BootinUp
(47,138 posts)Saviolo
(3,280 posts)But you know as well as I that whatever the outcome the GOP will have no qualms about bashing the Democratic candidates over the head with being in the "perverted party" despite the vast mountain of evidence that it's the GOP that falls under that banner. The R Governor of AL has already said that she believes the accusations against Moore, but is going to vote for him anyway because a pedophile is less damaging than a "Liberal Democrat."
The GOP is bereft of morals, ethics, and principle. The vast majority of the voting public listens to politicians half-awake and will believe the things they hear the most frequently and loudest, and guess what: The right-wing media sources in the USA are some of the loudest and most popular.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)NET NEUTRALITY FOLKS!!!NET NEUTRALITY FOLKS!!!NET NEUTRALITY FOLKS!!!NET NEUTRALITY FOLKS!!!
NET NEUTRALITY FOLKS!!!NET NEUTRALITY FOLKS!!!NET NEUTRALITY FOLKS!!!
NET NEUTRALITY FOLKS!!!NET NEUTRALITY FOLKS!!!
lame54
(35,281 posts)By implying victims should be believed automatically
The right smelled the blood in the water
Victims should be heard but they still must make their case
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Right now Im disgusted by certain folks posting here.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)In depth research confirming details and exploring possible spurious motivations of named victims.
Way more than accusations thrown out of left field.
Not suggesting that was your meaning but not only are his supposed offenses worse than others but the evidence, of its type, is much stronger. Sure as his original accuser is not a left wing talking head.
Saviolo
(3,280 posts)It's a very complicated issue.
I wrote an essay about it, but I don't suspect most people read it:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029855112
Written when actual information was still thin on the ground.
madville
(7,408 posts)There have been 100s of harassment cases settled in the House and Senate the last 15 years, all kept secret. The is currently a bill being introduced in the House to unseal and publicize these records. It's going to take out both Democrats and Republicans, could be in one massive dump (I doubt Paul Ryan will ever let the ME TOO Act come up for a vote) or it's going to be constant leaks and headlines every few days with another scandal.
tenderfoot
(8,425 posts)eom
Saviolo
(3,280 posts)The GOP and the far-right "alternative facts" fringe conspiracy "news" sites like Brietbart and InfoWars are putting a hit out on Democratic politicians because they can, and they're setting up poison pill scenarios that could have electoral consequences among low-information (read: most) voters.
And mainstream media is tripping over itself to cover it so they don't seem "biased."
Very obvious
moriah
(8,311 posts)... Tweeden's shows any further.
He's not being accused of the same things as others -- neither in the dynamic (he held no power position over any of the women), the vulnerability of the alleged victims (all have been well over 18, and he used Tweeden's vulnerable state while sleeping to take a crass picture, obviously not trying to get a true "feel" through Kevlar), or the behavior (only British people would say Trump bragged about grabbing women by the "fanny", and they snicker at Yanks talking about their "guns concealed in fanny packs" .
He's also owning at least some of his behavior, while flatly rejecting claims that he propositioned anybody for a quickie in a public restroom.
Now, I'm not exactly sure how to take his statements about "hugs" in relation to "ass-grabbing" allegations.
There was the fact the one non-anonymous accuser gave potentially constructive feedback when she contrasted the request for permission from J Random Gratuitous Republican There Getting His Name In The Press (not going to say it even if I remembered) before hugging or placing hands for the hug during the photo. And especially with the Girl Scout release about not forcing girls to hug relatives, perhaps it's something he saw in that too that made him use that language.
Regardless, though, I'm seeing a pattern here with Franken. He's essentially falling on his sword, if that's what it takes, to keep all of this from being a distraction from the more serious allegations. He's saying all the things people who do cross boundaries need to learn, so whether he did or not, maybe he's choosing to be an example of what TO do when accused. He's confident Minnesota voters would choose a Liberal replacement even in a special election, or at least not a Roy Moore, if this costs him his political career.
Let's not make his potential sacrifice in vain.