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Thu Nov 23, 2017, 07:49 PM

A statement made today by Al Franken

http://www.startribune.com/franken-vows-to-regain-minnesota-s-trust/459615023/

"In Thursday eveningís statement, the senator wrote:

'Iíve met tens of thousands of people and taken thousands of photographs, often in crowded and chaotic situations. Iím a warm person; I hug people. Iíve learned from recent stories that in some of those encounters, I crossed a line for some women ó and I know that any number is too many. Some women have found my greetings or embraces for a hug or photo inappropriate, and I respect their feelings about that. Iíve thought a lot in recent days about how that could happen, and recognize that I need to be much more careful and sensitive in these situations. I feel terribly that Iíve made some women feel badly and for that I am so sorry, and I want to make sure that never happens again. And let me say again to Minnesotans that Iím sorry for putting them through this and Iím committed to regaining their trust.'"

136 replies, 17005 views

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Arrow 136 replies Author Time Post
Reply A statement made today by Al Franken (Original post)
spooky3 Nov 2017 OP
MagickMuffin Nov 2017 #1
trof Nov 2017 #9
onetexan Nov 2017 #53
chaking53 Nov 2017 #70
bdamomma Nov 2017 #2
Motley13 Nov 2017 #3
GoCubsGo Nov 2017 #4
mahina Nov 2017 #76
Ferrets are Cool Nov 2017 #5
mountain grammy Nov 2017 #6
BigmanPigman Nov 2017 #7
JI7 Nov 2017 #8
BootinUp Nov 2017 #10
Ligyron Nov 2017 #80
VOX Nov 2017 #101
steve2470 Nov 2017 #127
Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #11
njhoneybadger Nov 2017 #12
Nevernose Nov 2017 #13
Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #26
bagelsforbreakfast Nov 2017 #29
Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #32
dhol82 Nov 2017 #38
Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #39
Lithos Nov 2017 #62
Demit Nov 2017 #68
7962 Nov 2017 #95
Demit Nov 2017 #110
7962 Nov 2017 #96
ollie10 Nov 2017 #83
7962 Nov 2017 #94
MFM008 Nov 2017 #51
Sophia4 Nov 2017 #57
SCVDem Nov 2017 #111
Sophia4 Nov 2017 #116
kcr Nov 2017 #61
ollie10 Nov 2017 #82
questionseverything Nov 2017 #97
LiberalLovinLug Nov 2017 #122
Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #135
questionseverything Nov 2017 #136
Unca Jim Nov 2017 #99
Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #28
DownriverDem Nov 2017 #49
Nevernose Nov 2017 #60
FBaggins Nov 2017 #66
BannonsLiver Nov 2017 #14
TexasBushwhacker Nov 2017 #15
Bill D Nov 2017 #16
BootinUp Nov 2017 #17
PatrickforO Nov 2017 #18
ChubbyStar Nov 2017 #19
moriah Nov 2017 #20
dsc Nov 2017 #85
Bradical79 Nov 2017 #112
iluvtennis Nov 2017 #21
obnoxiousdrunk Nov 2017 #22
ananda Nov 2017 #23
Ellipsis Nov 2017 #43
FailureToCommunicate Nov 2017 #131
underpants Nov 2017 #24
bluestarone Nov 2017 #25
Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #27
Polly Hennessey Nov 2017 #30
Madam Mossfern Nov 2017 #67
mcar Nov 2017 #31
democratisphere Nov 2017 #33
Leith Nov 2017 #34
mozan Nov 2017 #35
Mike Nelson Nov 2017 #36
Guilded Lilly Nov 2017 #37
womanofthehills Nov 2017 #40
rocktivity Nov 2017 #41
syringis Nov 2017 #42
moriah Nov 2017 #52
ghostsinthemachine Nov 2017 #44
Susan Calvin Nov 2017 #46
ghostsinthemachine Nov 2017 #65
Susan Calvin Nov 2017 #92
spooky3 Nov 2017 #47
Susan Calvin Nov 2017 #45
Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #48
moriah Nov 2017 #58
Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #59
oasis Nov 2017 #50
The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #54
spooky3 Nov 2017 #56
MFM008 Nov 2017 #77
cwydro Nov 2017 #79
OhZone Nov 2017 #55
nini Nov 2017 #63
riverwalker Nov 2017 #64
Nitram Nov 2017 #69
Maraya1969 Nov 2017 #71
zentrum Nov 2017 #72
Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2017 #73
SergeStorms Nov 2017 #74
Hekate Nov 2017 #75
steve2470 Nov 2017 #128
pressbox69 Nov 2017 #78
Soxfan58 Nov 2017 #81
orangecrush Nov 2017 #84
Motley13 Nov 2017 #86
marieo1 Nov 2017 #87
L. Coyote Nov 2017 #88
spooky3 Nov 2017 #93
Name removed Nov 2017 #89
Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #90
Name removed Nov 2017 #91
left-of-center2012 Nov 2017 #98
flamingdem Nov 2017 #100
ProudMNDemocrat Nov 2017 #102
mrdkitch Nov 2017 #103
LiberalLovinLug Nov 2017 #125
GatoGordo Nov 2017 #104
Demit Nov 2017 #113
GatoGordo Nov 2017 #117
Demit Nov 2017 #118
GatoGordo Nov 2017 #119
Demit Nov 2017 #123
LAS14 Nov 2017 #105
steve2470 Nov 2017 #129
oberliner Nov 2017 #106
GatoGordo Nov 2017 #109
Demit Nov 2017 #114
oberliner Nov 2017 #115
Demit Nov 2017 #120
MineralMan Nov 2017 #124
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2017 #107
Skid Rogue Nov 2017 #108
american_ideals Nov 2017 #121
MrModerate Nov 2017 #126
bleedinglib Nov 2017 #130
DeminPennswoods Nov 2017 #132
red dog 1 Nov 2017 #133
denvine Nov 2017 #134

Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 07:54 PM

1. I stand with Senator Franken




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Response to MagickMuffin (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:09 PM

9. Absolutely

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Response to MagickMuffin (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:36 PM

53. +1

Al Franken should NOT resign. He is a good man and not a sexual predator.

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Response to MagickMuffin (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:25 AM

70. 100% I believe in his basic goodness!

 

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 07:54 PM

2. Senator Franken

your explanation is accepted by me , you sir have a conscious when others do not. I believe he is being targeted. He is no Roy Moore.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 07:55 PM

3. Wish I could give him a hug

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Response to Motley13 (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:00 PM

4. If I ever get to meet him, I'll ask for one.

I suspect he won't be giving out many more of them after this, and that's kind of sad.

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Response to Motley13 (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 03:54 AM

76. Me too. We can slide him a tenner or 20 or what we can.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:03 PM

5. I stand with Senator Franken

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:04 PM

6. Thanks, Al. Good enough for me.

I'll take a hug any day from Senator Franken.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:07 PM

7. Fucking A Al...We are with you!

It was a Russian/GOP hit job and false equivalencies meant as distractions from the GOP's and the Fucking Moron's family's and his own illegal activities.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:07 PM

8. What they really want him to apologize for is exposing jeff sessions

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Response to JI7 (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:12 PM

10. +1

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Response to JI7 (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 07:57 AM

80. +2

Made that cotton-picking, KKK member look like the incompetent idiot he is.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:35 PM

101. + 3

Darn right.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 05:26 PM

127. yep you nailed it nt

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:14 PM

11. Appropriate and nice apology. nt

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:18 PM

12. That's reasonable

Ok, I'm back on the Franken train

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:19 PM

13. Good denial

Denies the accusation of ďgropingĒ politely, yet doesnít attack or smear the accusers. The denial is probably too subtle for some, though.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:41 PM

26. He's actually NOT denying the groping allegations which, since he specifically denie the bathroom

invitation, speaks volumes to me.

Shortly after the HuffPost report Wednesday, Franken issued a statement saying, ďItís difficult to respond to anonymous accusers, and I donít remember those campaign events.Ē He added, ďI can categorically say that I did not proposition anyone to join me in any bathroom.Ē


Had he had a clean conscience as to the butt grabbing, he would have categorically denied that as well.

Rather than being a denial, I read his statement as an acknowledgement that at least on some occasions he has put his hands on the buttocks of the person he was being photographed with.

I accept that, at the time, he thought it would be welcome - and based on interactions with someone who grabbed my butt during an embrace - he likely did not perceive it as sexually aggressive.. I also accept that he now understands it was not, and that he is trying to learn from what his accusers are telling him.

Unlike other people who have been accused, his transgressions are on the mild end of the inappropriate physical contact spectrum, he has acknowledged his behavior crossed a line, and he has apologized and is willing to learn from his past mistakes.

As long as he continues with that attitude (and nothing more serious emerges), his presence in Congress is a net positive and I don't want him to resign.

I just wish his advocates on DU would follow his lead and stop trying to discredit his accusers, stop making his acknowledged bad behavior out to be a plot (what that says is that if only he hadn't gotten caught things would be hunky dory).

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:45 PM

29. The Fiend! Had he had a clean conscience as to the butt grabbing, he

 

would have categorically denied that as well. (seriously you're still harping on this?)

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:59 PM

32. It is a pretty standard canon of construction.

If you specifically deny one of several things you are accused of, you are implicitly acknowledging the others.

If Franken is not denying it, why are you?

This double standard on DU of character assassination, excuses, denials, claims of political motivation, etc. v. righteous indignation when the Republicans make the same claims needs to stop.

The presumption that women are OK with men touching them without consent (or that they are to blame if they don't stop it, or don't speak out soon enough, or only feel able to speak out anonymously) is pervasive enough that it has infected a large part of the population (both men and women), including folks we see as progressive. In men it frequently manifests itself in relatively minor transgressions - like butt grabbing during an embrace; in women it more frequently manifests itself in slut shaming, victim blaming, etc. (all mechanisms of distingusihing onesself form the victim so we can feel safer - or, in this case, to justify supporting an otherwise progressive person).

We all grow up in a culture in which men are expected to exhibit some measure of sexual aggression and "good" women are supposed to resist it; and in which women who complain are routinely disbelieved.

There are going to be otherwise good people who inexplicably behave in ways that are not good. How we respond is a measure of our integrity. DU, from what I've been seeing, is failing - engaging in vicitim blaming, insistence that this is all politically motivated, etc.

We should be following Franken's lead. He has denied one claim, indicated his recollection of another is different, and either explicitly or implicitly acknowledged the rest. He has apologized, and promised to learn from it and be better going forward. We're still in the mode of assassinating the characters of the accusers.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #32)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 09:19 PM

38. Sorry - get a fucking grip!

He is trying his best to deal with crazy ass (no pun intended) women who seem to get freaked out by any touching whatsoever.
Shall we not question why, knowing they have these problems, they choose to have hugging pictures with him? If they are so freaked out by touching why are they standing so close to him?

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 09:26 PM

39. Sounds to me like you didn't actually read the accusations

They consented to the hug (one kind of touching) - not to the butt grab (a different kind of touching).

It sounds like your position is that women who accuse me (or at least men we support) of unwanted sexual contact are "crazy sss women who are freaked out by any touching." That's pretty offensive.

My position is that he denied the part that did not occur (the bathroom invitation) and implicitly acknowledged the rest. We need to follow his lead and stop the character assassination in connection with accusations he is not denying.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 11:33 PM

62. Ok, let me add something

I follow the blog of Wil Wheaton and have for many, many years since the birth of his Internet fame. Wil has a no-touching policy for his fans at conventions and other social situations. Part of it is from the anxiety of catching a cold and/or dermatitis/reaction to various perfumes/etc. of the guests. But most of it is the behavior of people who so easily break into his personal space make him extremely uncomfortable and he really does not want any hint of impropriety and/or theft of his person to occur. Got the impression accidents and intrusions into his personal space have happened far more than he's comfortable and so he just has a blanket policy to keep his distance which has caused some to view him as cold.

Photo-ops and meet and greets are not "normal" events - people are shoved together quickly and artificially. Whoever is the "center" is likely seeing hundreds, if not thousands, of people in a very short period of time. Asking them to remember any of it is asking for a miracle.

As for the "non-denial" - this logic is akin to proving a negative. What would you want Senator Franken to say given that he likely does not remember anything about their meeting? For him to deny really offers nothing constructive to build from. Offering to do better, which in this case probably means a much tighter photo-op policy, is all that can be offered.

L-

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #39)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 12:59 AM

68. A woman accused him of suggesting he accompany her to the bathroom.

 

Your position is that that didn't occur. Probably Franken could instantly, flatly deny it because the idea was so outlandish.

But if it didn't occur, that means the woman lied. Yes, people here were skeptical of the recent anonymous accusations. Suspicious about whether they really happened. A perfectly natural response. Because oh look, here, as it turns out, is a woman who really did lie.

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Response to Demit (Reply #68)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 11:58 AM

95. Thats whats coming. ONE liar is going to taint many telling the truth.

 

I'm not referring to only Franken, but the issue as a whole.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #95)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 02:04 PM

110. ALWAYS believing women and NEVER believing women are not the only choices we have.

 

That's why people are calling for a proper investigation, with hearings. Putting people under oath has a way of testing whether accusations from anonymous accusers are wild & reckless or sincerely meant.

Placing your hand on a bible & swearing to tell the truth tends to clarify the mind wonderfully, I think.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #39)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 12:02 PM

96. You are being objective and fair. Something many on BOTH sides have a problem with.

 

If you see some of the posts about these recent accusers of democrats, and replace the D name with an R, they sound just like what I read on FB from republicans excusing the behavior of THEIR guy, whoever it may be.

When Obama was president, I used to refer to my "Bush filter". If Bush had said/done the same thing, whatever the issue may be, would I criticize him?

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 08:34 AM

83. I predict that someone will come out.....

 

and report that....GASP!!!!....Franken LOOKED AT HER!!!!

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 11:53 AM

94. And how do you categorize these "crazy ass women"? Must they be only republican?

 

or what else? Are there any crazy assed Democratic women?
because thats what I hear from the other side regarding Moore "well, that woman worked for Hillary.."

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #32)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:32 PM

51. In some worlds

Unless Franken was burned at the stake, some will never be content.....

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #32)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:47 PM

57. I'm a woman. An older woman. A grandmother.

 

I hug people. I am small so I hug them above the waist.

When I lived in Europe, as did everyone else, I hugged and kissed people (in France sort of a symbolic kiss on each side of the face -- never really touching any skin -- kind of weird actually) all the time.

I have also been sexually harassed.

Trust me. There is a big difference between an embrace between friends and sexual harassment. The friendly embrace is very quick and done when it is done. The sexual harassment is done just enough to place the person being harassed in an embarrassing situation. The embrace between friends is done openly with a friendly demeanor. There is inevitably something sneaky about sexual harassment, and it usually is done in a situation that is not open to the observation of others -- not always, but usually. A knee rubbing the knee of the victim UNDER the table as opposed to a friendly hug that is one of a chain of hugs of people you know pretty well and who don't rely on you for jobs or favors.

I recall when I was in a European country and a friend of mine who was originally from India but had married a French citizen told me that we didn't have to hug when we met because I was American, and having lived in the US, she knew that I didn't really feel comfortable with all the hugs and kisses that are a part of the social life in many European countries.

I really appreciated the understanding of my Indian/French/had lived in the US (her husband was somehow involved in diplomacy or something like that), and the two of us didn't go through the usual hugging exercise when we met after that.

So different strokes for different folks. I hug people a lot, but not nearly as much as I would if I lived on the continent in Europe.

So much for condemning Franken for hugging people. Does he hug men as well as women? Does he hug a lot of people? Does he go beyond hugging? I suspect that what he did is totally different from sexual harassment. We need more details. I can't judge based on what I have read. That is what investigations and lawsuits are for -- establishing facts. We don't have them yet in Franken's case.

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Response to Sophia4 (Reply #57)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 02:14 PM

111. As a hugger, you know

 

that people come in all sizes.

An arm around the waist of one could be at the same height as a butt in another. Oops!

How much time constitutes a grope? 3 seconds is a brush. 5 seconds without a squeeze? 10 is pushing it and I would swing an elbow.

Every time Al talks he mentions his wife Frannie. That is so sincere that I feel thee accusations are misconstrued or an intentional attempt to bring down Sen. Franken.

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Response to SCVDem (Reply #111)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 03:01 PM

116. I try to get permission from someone before I hug.

 

If you are having your picture taken, it is normal to put your arms around each other.

We shall see how the accusations stand up under scrutiny.

But . . . . even Randi Rhodes who didn't always get along that well with Franken says he is a kisser.

The question is whether sexual innuendo went along with the kiss. And that is a question that can be hard to answer because the answer can be very subjective. It can have to do with the intent of both parties.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #32)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 11:25 PM

61. I knew that someone would somehow twist an admission out of this.

But yet it's the defenders who are the ones always made out as the ones "twisting themselves into pretzels" doing so.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #26)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 08:33 AM

82. Stop trying to discredit his accusers?

 

Soo....anything goes if you are an accuser I guess.

But if you are a Democrat, then we eat our own.

I get it.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #26)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:17 PM

97. he is not"denying" the touchs because he is trying to walk the fine line between

defending himself while not calling the "victim" a liar

any situation can be "seen" differently by any 2 people, he is trying to respect that

what he has acknowledged is the women have a right to their feelings, nothing else

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #97)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 04:27 PM

122. Exactly

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #97)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 08:25 PM

135. He said, "I crossed the line."

He didn't say they have a right to their feelings, he said, I crossed the line for some women. I.e., my physical embrace (including butt grabbing) seemed welcome at the time, but I am now learning that it was not.

If he was merely trying to avoid calling them a liar, he would not have categorically denied one allegation (the bathroom invitation) - i.e. calling them a liar as to that accusation - but not as ot the other.

A verbally inappropriate remark is far less offensive than grabbing someone's butt. If he was trying to avoid calling his accusers liars, he would not have categorically denied any of the allegations. And conversely, if he thought he could get away with denying one, but not both, he would have denied the worse one (the butt grabbing).

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #135)

Sun Nov 26, 2017, 01:21 PM

136. you are being dishonest pretending he has admitted "butt grabbing"

admitting to crossing the line for SOME women takes into account SOME women might be offended by any touch

I know rape survivors that are offended by the presence of any male, not alone their touch

the bathroom remark was code for ,having sex in the bathroom, which is what he denied

he is not denying that SOME women might have FELT his hug was inappropriate

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #26)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:32 PM

99. AMEN TO THAT!

I am tired of the good/evil thinking and cognitive dissonance among people who ought to know better.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:44 PM

28. Yup. See above. n/t

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:21 PM

49. Read it again

It's not a denial. Perhaps you think his explanation is a denial.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #49)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 11:18 PM

60. Its a total denial

ďIím a warm person; I hug people. Iíve learned from recent stories that in some of those encounters, I crossed a line for some women ó and I know that any number is too many. Some women have found my greetings or embraces for a hug or photo inappropriate.Ē

Thatís a denial. Heís being polite about it and also not smearing the accusers, but heís definitely denying groping anyone inappropriately. Thatís what ďI learned from recent storiesĒ means.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #60)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 11:48 PM

66. You forgot that he's disgusted with himself

"I deny doing anything inappropriate... but I'm disgusted with myself".

Yeah... that makes sense.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:22 PM

14. Stand tall Al!

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:22 PM

15. Works for me n/t

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:23 PM

16. Frankens Apology

As Jackie Gleason would say

Al you're the greatest

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:23 PM

17. k&r

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:25 PM

18. I stand with Franken.

He seems genuinely contrite, and we know from his past actions in office that he genuinely cares about his constituents and about the American people. He's a good guy who made mistakes and is sorry.

My inclination is to forgive him, provided he never does it again.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:27 PM

19. I stand with Al

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:28 PM

20. Good statement, but(t)...

I'm not exactly sure how to take his statements about "hugs" in relation to "ass-grabbing" allegations.

There was the fact the one non-anonymous accuser gave potentially constructive feedback when she contrasted the request for permission from J Random Gratuitous Republican There Getting His Name In The Press (not going to say it even if I remembered) before hugging or placing hands for the hug during the photo. And especially with the Girl Scout release about not forcing girls to hug relatives, perhaps it's something he saw in that too that made him use that language.

Even without mention of butts, though, he's speaking truth about how people do need to remember that little thing called "personal space" and that it's best to ask permission before invading it.

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Response to moriah (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 10:07 AM

85. I think the guy who asked permission is a Democrat as well

but I admit to not being sure.

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Response to dsc (Reply #85)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 02:19 PM

112. He was Republican

 

Was asked his opinion because he went to the same event as the first accuser. Said he didn't see any incident, but said how he goes about the photo requests.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:30 PM

21. Some one who knows how to apologize and say I'm sorry. Quite the opposite of the WH occupant

who said last year during one of the GE debates that he had never had to apologize for anything during his 70 years on earth. GAH.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:32 PM

22. K & R ...

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:33 PM

23. Rule of thumb: always ask first.

And keep it simple and friendly.

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Response to ananda (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 09:50 PM

43. ...Ecto Gammat

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Response to Ellipsis (Reply #43)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 05:52 PM

131. Ecto Gammat!

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:37 PM

24. He is handling this as well as it could be handled

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:39 PM

25. i'm here

to stay

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:43 PM

27. That's much the same approach as in his first statement.

No lashing out, sincere-sounding expressions of self-searching and regret, no attempt to get bogged down in arguments about details, and no suggestion that the women involved shouldn't be believed. It's actually in proportion to the nature of the allegations, whether you believe them or not.

He does need to be more careful in future. But then so does Joe Biden, for instance. It's fun to be cuddly with (seemingly) willing participants, but it just takes one allegation after the event to start the whole ball rolling (again, in Franken's case). It'll be a brave politician who gets close to a stranger for a selfie in future. That's sad.

Whether it'll satisfy those calling for his head (I have seen a few changes in heart among some who penned op-eds calling for him to go so far) or be rewarded in the polls is another matter, but unfortunately, in a week or so's time things may come out about other politicians and public figures that could make anything Franken's accused of seem very tame.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:53 PM

30. If I ever have the honor

of meeting Senator Franken I will definitely ask for a hug.

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Response to Polly Hennessey (Reply #30)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 12:24 AM

67. Make sure first

that you give him written permission.

What has this world come to?

Why do we allow ourselves to be distracted by an obvious Republican smear
campaign? And why are we eating our own?

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 08:54 PM

31. He is handling this quite well

A sharp contrast to the Rs and Moore.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 09:03 PM

33. Excellent statement and we stand with you and behind you foursquare.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 09:03 PM

34. I Stand with Senator Franken

He has made too many rethugs too uncomfortable for too long: Bill O'Reilly and Jeff Sessions are two that come to mind.

So they had to ruin him. The problem was that our good senator has very little sleaze in his background so when they found the USO show with LeeAnn Tweeden, found that she was a reichwing talk show host, a birther, and voted for chumpy, they thought they hit pay dirt. Too bad she backed off just a little too soon, had posed for Playboy, and was on video goosing a guitar player and smooching a soldier from the audience in the same show.

I think if we check the bank accounts of the other three (only one of which was named), we might find some recent deposits that they don't want to explain.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 09:05 PM

35. Al Franken The true Man

Al Franken proves that all men are not mr. trump. He I think has reviewed his actions and found errors. He is working to not dis his accuser or call the reports false. He has ask for a full review from everybody. Not the action of a guilty man, unlike mr. trump how he hides his assets/contacts calls his accusers bimbos and fake news {think 5 year old brat..you can't make me..it's not true} As a man I know that many times my actions would fail to meet the test,Young/dump/etc. The thing is I have learned from my mistakes mostly with the help of a woman that pointed it out. Al Franken is someone I would like to meet and call friend, He is one of the truth speakers in congress and that is why the rpugs need to disable him.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 09:09 PM

36. I don't think...

...I've ever seen a classier way to handle this... and, I assume he's giving the accusers a greater measure of credibility than they may be worth. Cheers to Al Franken!

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 09:18 PM

37. Youre my man, Al! Support you all the way.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 09:36 PM

40. Randi Rhodes recently adressed this on her show as she worked at Air America for yrs with Al

She said Al is probably the least sexual guy she knows and for all the yrs she worked with him, no one ever mentioned Al ever being inappropriate.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 09:37 PM

41. Pre-emptive strike accomplished!

"I know that ANY number is too many..." Well played, Senator -- fook-in-bee-YOO-tee-ful!


rocktivity

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 09:42 PM

42. I don't understand.

The picture I've seen is not that shocking. OK, maybe a bit loud but pretending being "devastated" is a little too much....

Look at Franken's eyes, it is obvious he was joking. Again, maybe not of the best taste but starting WW III for that is the same as hunting a rabbit with a tank !

I'm saying this as woman.

I don't know much M. Franken but he clearly have an extroverted and warmly personality.

So, according to the P***-grabber-in-chief, Al Franken deserves a one-way ticket to hell but Moore is almost a paragon of virtue ???

I feel sorry for M Franken being forced to apologize for...nothing ! Nice and humble apologies.

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Response to syringis (Reply #42)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:34 PM

52. He's stepping on the grenade to be an example.

He knows at this point his political career might be toast, but he has the opportunity few do -- go with grace if forced out, with the knowledge that no one replacing him would ever be another Roy Moore.

And in doing so, just may very well keep his seat and make people realize this is a distraction from Allred's gambit that Moore's accuser wants to testify under oath before Congress first before giving a full interview to the media. (Perhaps Allred shouldn't have went that direction, but I'm sure she didn't think the response would be to find a decade old photo to try to get a sitting Senator before the same committee.)

Either way, he's apologized for things that could have been misinterpreted or were crass, and flatly denied the allegation that he propositioned anybody for a quickie in a bathroom.

In this statement, he has obviously taken in the feedback from the non-anonymous alleged victim about how another politician asked about how they wanted to pose instead of assuming. Even if it avoids the question of an ass being grabbed in the process, it does show how the "everyman" should listen and respond to a woman saying something made them uncomfortable -- listen for constructive criticism in their complaint, and take it as constructive instead of a personal attack.

I just hope it's not all wasted breath. I hope men listen to him.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 09:51 PM

44. A class act, Al Franken

Sadly, I just don't think he has the stones for the campaign. He is too decent.

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Response to ghostsinthemachine (Reply #44)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:19 PM

46. I think he does.

'Cause he's very, very smart as well.

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Response to Susan Calvin (Reply #46)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 11:48 PM

65. Well, I've been the number one Franken for Pres

And it's three years of this. That's what this was, a warning shot across the bow, test the waters thing. Will Franken fight dirty? I don't think so. Does he want to slag this out for three long years? I sure wouldn't.

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Response to ghostsinthemachine (Reply #65)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 11:24 AM

92. I wouldn't want to run for elected office at all.

But thank goodness some people do.

If anybody can get through this, Al can. And look how far Bernie got without fighting dirty.

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Response to ghostsinthemachine (Reply #44)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:19 PM

47. People likely said the same thing about Obama.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:18 PM

45. Perfect.

Al is a very, very smart and decent cookie.

I'm still backing him for Prez.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:21 PM

48. For those who feel this statement doesn't go far enough or doesn't deny significant aspects,

here, FWIW, is something I posted as a reply a few days ago, when many were het up about the Tweeden allegations.

I've reposted it as a reply a couple of times since, but I think we've had quite enough Franken OPs in the last few days, so I don't intend making it one.

Here's a sad aspect to the story:

Al Franken wrote a bill to help rape survivors like me. He canít lead on it now.

In November 2014, I was raped.

Iím certainly not the only one something this awful has happened to, but afterward, I felt as though I was. I was a 19-year-old college student. My life changed overnight. I faced an incredibly long fight to bring my attacker to justice: Daniel Drill-Mellum was wealthy, well-connected, and willing to throw me and my reputation under the bus. The #MeToo culture Iíve seen develop publicly over the last month wasnít around to help me then. I was nearly harassed off the University of Minnesota campus for reporting. I was turned away by the Minneapolis Police Department despite the mountain of evidence in my case.

Over the next two years, I learned how to hold my frustration in, because I had an end goal in mind. I knew that my attacker belonged in prison, and I was determined to get the justice system on my side. I made mental notes about everything that was going wrong. I tried to have patience that someday I could make a different world. When my rapist was sentenced in August 2016 to six years in prison, I finally had my chance.

I sought help from Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.). He took up my cause without hesitation, and he worked with his aides to draft legislation to pay for training to help police departments treat assault survivors with more concern for what weíve been through. But now that allegations have come out that Franken himself assaulted a woman years ago, I want another lawmaker to sponsor the bill we worked so hard on. This work deserves to be led by those without a history of sexual harassment or assault.

The news this week was especially disappointing for me because of how effective an advocate Franken has been for my cause. I felt my heart sink when I saw the news, but I was prepared to support the woman involved. I remember what it was like to be shamed and not believed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/11/18/al-franken-wrote-a-bill-to-help-rape-survivors-like-me-he-cant-lead-on-it-now/


If anybody wants to click through, they'll see the sort of work Franken's been involved in, and how sensitively he and his staff have handled the process of helping this woman frame the bill. She now wants to find a female congressperson to sponsor it instead.

I hope it's an overreaction to the early forms of this story, and she may revise her decision. Or perhaps it would be better if she can find a female senator to sponsor it, and Franken can offer whatever support is necessary, behind the scenes or from the floor. The problem with his involvement is Republican whataboutery. You'd hope a bill like this could find bipartisan agreement, but I doubt it.

It may shed some light on why Franken reacted like he did. The larger picture than his own career is the legislation he wants to pass and the changes he wants to come about - exactly as set out in his long statement. That's integrity.

I don't think any number of videos or pics of Tweeden cavorting onstage are likely to make Abby Honold feel differently, certainly not if Franken were ever to have a hand in relying on them as some sort of "defense" - especially in view of her own experience of the attempts to "throw me and my reputation under the bus". Or maybe she'll realize that this is more or less what's happened to Franken as her ally and change her mind.

What probably won't help change her mind is targeting somebody who comes forward with an allegation for her past behavior, however raunchy, given what she says above. Or maybe she'll join some here in resenting Tweeden for making false allegations, but that could be a slippery slope and she may not be able or willing to go there.

These are the stakes. This whole operation hasn't just targeted Franken, it's targeted the current wave of revulsion at revelations about how (especially powerful) men sometimes conduct themselves.

That's why I think Franken's reacted as he has, and why he's right to do so.


It's just my own interpretation, but I reckon Franken doesn't want to get into the position of publicly expressing disbelief of the women making the allegations, for reasons I outline above.

Arguing about whose hand may have gone where during a photo after all this time, in the case of the later allegations, isn't going to be very pleasant or illuminating for anyone, so this shuts that down as well as can be done as long as nobody tries to keep pressing it, and he's chosen to swallow some crow. I've no idea what did happen.

The one aspect he's outright denied is the business about going off for a washroom assignation - maybe he felt that overstepped the mark.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #48)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:55 PM

58. As I said...

In this statement, he has obviously taken in the feedback from the non-anonymous alleged victim about how another politician asked about how they wanted to pose instead of assuming. Even if it avoids the question of an ass being grabbed in the process, it does show how the "everyman" should listen and respond to a woman saying something made them uncomfortable -- listen for constructive criticism in their complaint, and take it as constructive instead of a personal attack.

I just hope it's not all wasted breath. I hope men listen to him.

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Response to moriah (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 11:03 PM

59. Yes, thanks, I saw that, moriah.

His response may be too nuanced for current politics, but it is consistent and it has integrity, and it doesn't burn bridges for the future unless -well, even if - he's hounded out.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:29 PM

50. More importantly, he ain't about to resign over this shit.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:39 PM

54. They'll take away my Senator when they pry him from my cold dead

butt.

Seriously, I've met Franken; he did NOT pat my butt, and I have never had the slightest sense of him being in any respect skeevy or predatory. Seems that, at worst, he was clueless. I am sure he is no longer clueless and he will be very careful about women's personal space in the future.

People calling for his resignation are thoroughly stupid.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #54)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:40 PM

56. LOL!!!

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #54)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 03:55 AM

77. !!!!!!


I would duct tape myself into that seat.
Hope he stays put.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #54)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 04:10 AM

79. Or thoroughly motivated by the RW.

I hope they go away from here soon.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 10:39 PM

55. Perfect Response! n/t

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 11:37 PM

63. I'm a hugger/toucher too

And I have to remind myself at work to not touch the arm of people while talking to them etc.. It's hard for me to do at times as my nature is to be welcoming and friendly. But not everyone else is and what is natural for me may not be for others.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Thu Nov 23, 2017, 11:46 PM

64. Perfect

I think Stone heard about his ďfriendlinessĒ at photos but knew it would not be enough to cause a scandal on its own. Butt patting among politicians is probably pretty common. Benign butt pats would just not do it, until the current atmosphere about harassment. Leeann Tweeden photo and story was definitely dirty tricks and think Franken knows it. Stone waited to spring his photo and story in an opportune time. Thatís why the EXIF data shows someone saved/accessed the photo the night Coleman conceded. But there are other photos on that plane, no one would be sleeping in the jump seats, vibrations would rattle too much. There were upholstered comfy seats on the plane for sleeping. Add to that how her story does not mesh with the data. She lied about that photo.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:22 AM

69. Al Franken is a true mensch.

I stand by him because he takes responsibility, apologizes, and promises to do better. In spite of the fact that the evidence against him appears at least partly manufactured and orchestrated. Frankly (!), I don't believe he groped women while being photographed with them in front of their husbands.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:43 AM

71. I love this man! (He is so gracious)

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:54 AM

72. I stand with Al

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 02:15 AM

73. Pussy-Grabber-in-Chief needs to resign.

I'll be ready to talk about Franken after that.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 02:33 AM

74. I'm never touching a woman again....

unless I get an agreement, on paper, in triplicate, and notarized on the spot by a licensed notary. The stakes are just too damned high, and you never know what constitutes an "unwelcome embrace" from one person to the next. Heck, I'm going to include guys in this process as well. You never know who is going to accuse you of what anymore. Touching anyone is an open invitation for trouble.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 03:48 AM

75. Senator Franken: DON'T QUIT! Non Illigetamus Carborundum. Ever.

Al Franken is too good to lose.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #75)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 05:26 PM

128. amen and hallelujah nt

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 04:10 AM

78. I suspect

this has less to do with sex abuse and Moore to do with the way Franken confronted a racist Republican traitor who is trying to flush our country down the toilet. Resist their smears Big Al, resist.









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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 08:14 AM

81. No victim blaming, no FAKE NEWS!

Must be a democrat. You've handled this with class senator. Now keep your hands to yourself

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 09:21 AM

84. It beats the shit out of Trump's "statements"

about HIS accusers.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 10:44 AM

86. So now what, are NFL players that pat each other on the butt

going to be accused of inappropriate behavior?

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 11:03 AM

87. spooky3

I'm in total agreement. Thank you for posting this!! It's ironic, lol, that all accusers are DJT supporters and came forward after the Moore and Russia investigations.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 11:09 AM

88. THIS statement should be made by Al Franken


'Iíve met thousands of people in political situations. Iím an honest person; I speak the truth to people. Iíve learned from recent events that in some of those encounters, some others have crossed a line and lied ó and I know that any number is too many. Some men have found my objections to lying inappropriate, and I respect their feelings about that. Iíve thought a lot in recent days about how that could happen, and recognize that I need to be much more skeptical in these situations and suspicious of liars. I feel terribly that Iíve made some men squirm so badly and for that I am so sorry, and I want to make sure that never happens again by charging them with perjury and teaching them a lesson. And let me say again to Minnesotans that Iím so happy for putting them through this and Iím committed to exposing liars everywhere, no matter what their responsive tactics may be.'"

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #88)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 11:47 AM

93. I like it!

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)


Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 11:16 AM

90. Great statement. I stand with Franken...all here who is allowing the GOP to use

you to destroy Franken in a state they can win should be ashamed.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #90)


Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:26 PM

98. I'm with Al

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:33 PM

100. I stand with Franken, obviously, to do otherwise is to fall for a right wing smear

and maybe a middle or left wing stupidity

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:35 PM

102. How I feel about this.....

Once again I will say that the photo of Al Franken attempting to touch Ms. Tweeden's breasts through her flak jacket after a Dec. 2006 USO tour finished up was a bad joke in very poor taste. But to sexually assault her, NO!!

Al apologized for this and misconstrueing on Ms. Tweden's part. She accepted his apology, does not want him to resign, and he called for a Senate Ethics investigation to look into this and will comply and testify.

As for Donald Trump and Roy Moore, what Al Franken is accused of does not even compare. Just because both Trump and Moore vehemently denied the accusations, called their accusers LIARS, and threatened suing them all, amounts to nothing more than verbal and sexual assault all over again. Donald Trump is heard on the 2005 Access Hollywood tape BRAGGING about what he does to women and getting away with it. BRAGGING about how he wanted to bed a beautiful woman he took furniture shopping. BRAGGED about spying in on half naked girls at pagaents. And yet, people still voted for him and sided with him as he went on to threaten his accusers. Those women were credible.

Enter Roy Moore. Who has a history of a sexual attraction to young girls, innocent and virginal to exert control and power over them. Their stories are credible. Even Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, and much of the Congressional Republicans believe the women in the Roy Moore case.

Roy Moore can deny this all he wants. He is taking the same defense strategy as Trump..."Cop did not see it, I did not do it." For Trump to all but endorse Moore is going beyond the pale. Birds of a feather, stick together. For Trump and Kellyanne Conway believe it is better to have a sexual predator Child Molester in the Senate to vote for Trump's agenda and Tax Cuts for the rich, than a man who prosecuted the remaining KKK members involved in the 1964 Birmingham, Alabama Church bombing that killed 4 African American girls on a Sunday morning.

This is what our politics has become. No wonder we are so divided. The fate of the Republican Party gets decided on Dec. 12th. If Al gets booted out of the Senate, so should too Donald Trump and Roy Moore, if elected, be forced to undergo an Ethics investigation and leave the offices for which they have been elected to for the good of the country.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:40 PM

103. The reporting

I am very torn by the reporting around this story. If Franken comes out Sunday and admits to everything he accused of, I feel he should resign.
However, what I have seen so far leaves me with a number of questions. Not about the women but about all the people reporting the story.
First, we have Ms. Tweeden's account. She offered a photo as verification of her story. I find the photo ambiguous. She says that Franken groped her. I don't see him touching her in the picture. So what happened? Did he touch her? If so, that's assault and a crime. If he did not touch her and took a very crude picture why she was asleep, that's harassment and also extremely serious. If she was playing to sleep and was in on the joke, it was a joke in extremely poor taste and Franken should apologize to all women. Which he has done. This photo is important because Ms. Tweeden offered as proof of the validity of the rest of the story. If her characterization of the picture is true we should believe the rest of her story. So why are no news sources pursuing this angle? There had to be many other people on the plane. Where is some investigative journalism?
Likewise, the second accuser offers a picture as proof. Along with testimony from close family members as verification. There is also a supposed FB posting. The picture appears to be cropped. I have not seen any reporting where a reporter has seen the FB post. I have seen no reporting vetting the aspects of this woman's story at all. If proof is offered should it not be inspected?
And, we have the unnamed accusers reported on by the Huffington Post. These are perhaps the most troubling to me. This is being reported by a reporter with a single byline with the HP, and a long term association with one of these unnamed sources. The other has a strong, outspoken agenda as evidenced by her Twitter timeline. There are a number of conflicts here that does not seem to be responsible journalism.
Now, there are internet rumors of some right wing conspiracy here. I think that might be a leap. But in this environment, such a plan might find legs.
We appear to be at a place where a women's account cannot be analyzed under any circumstance, and all Franken has is the only available response, endless apologies.
The "me too" issue is an important one, and should not be usurped by partisan politics. That may be occurring now, assisted by a lazy or fearful media.
I am old enough to remember the sad events of the McMartin Preschool and I was taught about the mob hysteria of the Salem Witch Trials. I thought we had progressed as a society since these events. Perhaps not.

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Response to mrdkitch (Reply #103)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 04:48 PM

125. While we on DU engage in long drawn out hand-wringing, the GOP laughs and passes another bill

We are so predictable. And easy to corner. And silence.

"If he did not touch her and took a very crude picture why she was asleep, that's harassment and also extremely serious."

NO its not "extremely serious". Its taking a crude picture with her while she was asleep. In front of other people, and on a comedy tour where everyone was goofing around. It was rude, crass, with sexual overtones obviously. But my gawd, this is how they get us. All it takes is a few Democrats to jump down the rabbit hole and take the party down with them.

The Republicans have successfully conflated raping a 14 year old and other minors by a Republican, with a Democrat who "took a very crude picture while she was asleep". And in so doing devalue the stories of all the women that have actually been physically and mentally assaulted in an "extremely serious" way.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:40 PM

104. "I feel terribly that Ive made some women feel badly and for that I am so sorry"

 

Another non-apology apology?

"I'm sorry that you didn't understand what my intentions were".

I am tired of hearing it. The problem is not them feeling badly. The problem is predators acting badly.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #104)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 02:22 PM

113. No, re-phrasing someone's words is not an honest thing to do.

 

Sounds like you've decided Al Franken is a predator. Apparently automatically believing accusations is your thing. So answer me this: Do you really believe that he made the suggestion to the woman that he accompany her to the bathroom?

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Response to Demit (Reply #113)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 03:10 PM

117. No, what is dishonest is the double standard on this forum

 

We are seeing a pattern of behavior with Mr. Franken, and it is quite disheartening to read the perpetual excuses for bad behavior and victim blaming.

It isn't women feeling badly about "excusable behavior". It is the pattern of bad behavior by a serial groper, that is being sugar coated because he is on "our side".

Maybe when Mr. Franken comes out with a statement that says, "I a sorry for my bad behavior" instead of "I'm sorry you feel bad about my behavior".

Do I believe a woman who says a man groped her? That a man would made a lewd proposition? Yes, I automatically do. Especially when the man in question dances around the accusation.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #117)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 03:41 PM

118. I asked a specific question about the bathroom accusation. You didn't answer it.

 

Do you honestly believe that he made the suggestion to the woman that they visit the bathroom together?

It's a yes or no question.

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Response to Demit (Reply #118)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 03:50 PM

119. Was YES, I AUTOMATICALLY DO evasive?

 

Do I believe Al Franken grabbed a woman's ass?

Yes. Especially since he hasn't denied it. Especially since he seems to think this kind of behavior is "high comedy".

Do I believe Al Franken would/did make a lewd proposition to a woman, given what we know about his behavior so far?

Yes. To believe him would be to not believe the women accusers.

My question to you is, why is it so hard to believe a woman who accuses a man of bad behavior?

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #119)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 04:34 PM

123. The behavior I find hard--impossible--to believe happened is the bathroom invitation.

 

It's ludicrous. It defies logic. It was a very specific accusation and Franken was able to deny it immediately and unequivocally.

You are conflating details of the various accusations to such a degree that I doubt you are very clear on what and where accusations were made. It was the Leeann Tweeden photo that he said was an attempt at humor; he didn't deny appearing in it and he apologized for it. Her initial accusation was that he groped her. Except the photo showed he didn't. Several of her other claims were contradicted by later photographic evidence.

My personal opinion, at the end of the day, is that something might have happened with the three women who posed with him for photos, but that there is a hazy area between perception and reality that is difficult for an accused person to address. Especially regarding events that happened ten years ago with women who were strangers to him (two of whom are anonymous. I think that's suspicious).

Lastly, if Al Franken is a "serial groper" there would be RECENT evidence of it. Evidence over the decade since these events. Many more stories. That would only be logical. It's been 2 weeks since Leeann Tweeden's carefully orchestrated revelation. The kind of revelation that usually opens a floodgate. And yet only three additional stories, from ten years ago, have trickled out. I want these stories fully investigated.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:46 PM

105. He's been tone perfect in all his replies.

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #105)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 05:27 PM

129. he has indeed nt

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:52 PM

106. The accusations were not about "warm hugs"

 

In this statement he says "I crossed a line for some women" - what line is he saying he crossed?

The last two women said: "He grabbed my buttocks during a photo op" and "he basically grabbed my ass"

Is Franken admitting to doing this?

If not, what exactly is he apologizing for doing?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #106)


Response to oberliner (Reply #106)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 02:29 PM

114. Why don't we put the women under oath and ask them?

 

Do you see something wrong with asking the accusers to give formal testimony in an open hearing?

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Response to Demit (Reply #114)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 02:37 PM

115. In regard to this statement that Franken has put out, is he denying or apologizing?

 

If he's apologizing, what is he apologizing for? What is the line that he is claiming to have crossed?

If he's denying, then why is he also apologizing?

Clearly, Franken feels that he has done something inappropriate here, but he is not clear as to what that was.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #115)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 03:56 PM

120. You keep speculating about Franken, and you keep insisting that we speculate too.

 

You see, I believe in having these questions put to everyone involved, and give everyone a chance to answer extensively. Exhaustively. I believe in the rightness of calling for everyone to testify under oath.

Apparently the prospect of getting it cleared up is not the outcome you want. So you post thread after thread to keep the allegations hanging in the air.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #115)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 04:39 PM

124. Senator is a man who speaks directly.

He says exactly what he means to say. Perhaps you could do the same. What, exactly is it that you are trying to say about the junior Senator from Minnesota? I'm not clear on that, really.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:54 PM

107. Al, you always had my trust.

It's sad, people who can't distinguish between people who lie, self-serve, and manipulate, and people who don't.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:59 PM

108. Okay...

Since I love the guy, I'll accept that excuse. I hope the women involved accept his apology. I don't know if I hope they're "real" women, or not. I think not. Although, I hate the thought of these right wing bastards using women's issues to score a point. Of course, they've done it before, so I wouldn't put it pass them.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 04:14 PM

121. Let's remember: Democratic sex "scandals" sourced/fueled by Kremlin / alt-right

From the Russian Troll monitoring dashboard (run by Clint Watts):
http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org/

Between November 11 and November 17, we examined 55 articles that were among the top URLs shared by Kremlin-oriented accounts on Twitter. Over 40% of the URLs focused on sexual misconduct allegations; of those URLs, 42% attacked accused Democrats (or those connected to liberal causes), 4% promoted a narrative of a Saudi-linked pedophile ring, and 54% defended Roy Moore.




---------
Republican lawyer:



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And



------
And finally



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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 05:24 PM

126. Franken is a hugger and needs to be more attuned to those who aren't.

Glad we could get that out of the way.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 05:28 PM

130. This apology

made by Senator Franken, seems very sincere to me!!
HEY, we're all human & stuff happens!!
I've accidentally bumped a few butts & breast during my life & it would have been extremely embarrassing to stop & apologize ?? So, with no harm done? I went on my way & I would have never expected to be singled out for a simple mistake !!
Senator Franken, thank you for your service to our great Country !! Keep doing what your doing & remember millions of people still luv you & respect you !!!!
YOUR A GOOD MAN !!

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 05:54 PM

132. This is true

Some people are "touchers" in the sense that they will physically touch other people. There's no bad intent, it's just how they are or what kind of family they were raised in like one that's openly affectionte. I worked for a guy who would touch my arm when we were talking about some issue or other. I was never offended because it's just the way he was. Other people don't like to be touched or even have their personal space invaded.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 06:02 PM

133. K&R

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Fri Nov 24, 2017, 06:37 PM

134. I totally stand with Al!

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