America is a Violent Country

[salvorhardin]

Assault deaths per 100k population over time. The U.S. is the bottom right corner.

Note: I do not think easy availability of guns alone can explain the discrepancy between the US and other OECD countries.

Source: http://crookedtimber.org/2012/07/20/america-is-a-violent-country

[2on2u]

1. New Zealand either has something going on or there ain't nobody

left there..... good on them.

[salvorhardin]

2. New Zealand doesn't even have the lowest gun ownership per capita either

It's middle of the pack at #22 with 22.6 guns per hundred residents. The US, of course, is at #1 with 88.8 guns per hundred residents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

[mattclearing]

31. You should have a closer look at that chart before relying on it.

I went to use it in an argument the other day, then realized it's kind of a piece of crap, statistically speaking.

[flamingdem]

3. The apologists will tell you that violent crime has gone down

as a way to justify liberal gun laws.

Let's hope they see this chart. The comparison says everything, we are the extremists of the world in terms of gun violence.

[fascisthunter]

4. extreme yet, never extreme enough

that's why we describe them as "gun Nuts".

[salvorhardin]

5. Don't jump too far

This is assault deaths per 100K. That includes anyone who died as a result of interpersonal violence, not just guns.

[flamingdem]

6. Gun violence death figures are 10,000 per year USA, 46 in England

and similar for the rest of Europe.

We are the extreme.

[salvorhardin]

7. Right

But my point is that we're extreme across the board, and gun ownership alone can't explain it. And I am not for liberal gun laws by any measure. I know you weren't implying that. I just wanted to clarify my position.

[flamingdem]

8. I see what you're saying

People have been using justifications on DU with charts that take away from the reality of gun violence here. It's true it's not just guns.

[hack89]

33. Actually 8700 in 2010 and still falling.

our murder rate has been cut in half since 1992.

[Major Nikon]

9. Charts that list just gun deaths would be even more lopsided than these

[salvorhardin]

11. I can't find time series data for gun deaths

Do you know of any?

[bhikkhu]

17. "Which of those countries have liberal gun laws?"

would be one good question. We do, of course, as per the constitution and the supreme court's history of rulings on gun law - so for the most part there's not much we can do about it at this point.

On the other hand, Switzerland has a gun ownership rate almost as high as ours, and their homicide rate is just a fraction. So perhaps gun laws themselves don't lead to violence, and there are other ways to live as peaceful people?

[Major Nikon]

19. Gun onwership in Switzerland is very different from the US

The reason why gun ownership is high in Switzerland is because the government gives you a gun as a part of military commitments. Furthermore the government knows exactly where those guns are because all are registered. Obtaining a permit to carry a gun in public is practically impossible unless you're in some sort of profession that requires it. Just to buy a gun(other than certain specialty guns like antiques), you are required to have a permit issued by the state even if you are just buying it from your neighbor.

[bhikkhu]

20. A cultural difference - they see gun ownership more as a sober responsibility

I'm sure it varies quite a bit here, as there are plenty of responsible owners, but I know a bunch of people myself who stockpiled guns and massive amounts of ammunition after listening to beck & co ramping up the fear and hate on one cock-eyed theory after another...

We'd probably agree that if we're stuck with gun ownership because of our history (in the same way that Switzerland is), there is a culture of education and maturity that should go with it; and without some stronger sense of unity and a basic sense of the value of people themselves these things will keep happening. Its not just guns, its the unity and maturity of the culture itself (or the lack thereof, in our case).

[Democracyinkind]

28. I've been living in Switzerland for a long time now, and your

post is the first time that I see the topic of gun ownership in Switzerland honestly and accurately portrayed. So much thanks for that. Isn't it funny that most gun nuts think that Switzerland somehow proves that guns aren't dangerous?

Thank you for your post!

[eridani]

22. Finland is really weird

Why are they so different from Norway and Sweden?

[Major Nikon]

24. Some of the happiest countries have the highest suicide rates

[eridani]

25. Well, yes. But Norway, Sweden and Finland seem so similar

Until you look at stuff like heart disease and suicide rates. In countries that far north, there is some correlation with long nights, but all these countries are at similar latitudes.

[hack89]

35. There has been a large and constant drop in that rate in the subsequent 11 years

we have cut our murder rate in half since 1992.

[Tejas]

34. So, trust you instead of DOJ or FBI stats?

They're lying to us?


edit; stats

[hack89]

36. We have cut our murder rate in half in the past 30 years

we have cut the number of deaths due to murder and manslaughter in half in the same period.

And those rates and numbers continue to decline.

[B2G]

10. Much of the gun violence in the US

can be attributed to the war on drugs. It would be interesting to see those stats bumped up against each country's drug laws.

[salvorhardin]

15. Interesting idea

I'm not sure how you could codify national drug laws. There'd be a large subjective element in any case, I think. Any ideas? Maybe somebody has already done that work?

[salvorhardin]

12. Also of interest

Last edited Sat Jul 21, 2012, 04:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Interactive map here: http://www.openheatmap.com/view.html?map=DismemberingKuldaExtraperitoneal
Data here: http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html

[eridani]

23. Delaware and Maryland may be anomalies because

--of their small populations, for which one really bad year skews the average a lot. Just as a small hospital is likely to deviate more from the typical ~ 1/1 ratio of male to female births than a large hospital.

[valerief]

13. It's the promotion of guns AND our biggest industry--producing war soldiers.

Add to that the War For Drugs and the government's policies that promote unemployment and you've got America.

[salvorhardin]

14. Oh, it's definitely cultural

But there's so much that contributes to the problem, IMHO. Another big aspect: wealth and income inequality.

[valerief]

16. Absolutely! nt

[Brickbat]

18. Wealth discrepancy, mental health stigmas, an extremely heterogeneous culture...

I'm interested to see what happens to that drop, however -- whether it continues, levels off or rises again.

[B2G]

21. Gangs and drugs

It's really pretty simple.

[Tejas]

26. LOL, let's see the chart for Mexico.

[MooseTrax]

27. I Own 3 Guns

A 12 gauge shotgun
A 30 30 saddle rifle
A .38 S&W revolver

The basic problem isn't ordinary gun ownership. When a kooky bastard can legally own an assault rifle with a 300 round clip and legally buy 6000 rounds of ammunition and enough chemicals and explosives to booby trap an apartment....the goddam laws are way past time for change. What goes on in America is unadulterated insanity.

[Surya Gayatri]

29. Interesting that you should find "assault death" statistics

to be a rationale for LOLing...interesting, but hardly surprising in the cult of penile compensation.

The US claims membership in the exclusive "club" of advanced, industrialized nations charted on this graph.

Obviously, the study does not include Mexican figures, nor figures from any other "under-developed" nation.

Ironic that the US should be included in the "advanced" group.

Its sad record of uncontrolled violence clearly indicates that it belongs in the ranks of the "under-developed", read backward and retrograde.

(For what its worth, I'm an American living in Europe. All too often, I find myself obliged to attempt a justification of American firearms insanity, incomprehensible to most rational Euorpeans.)

[Tejas]

30. LOL "penile compensation"

[Tejas]

32. LOL you live in Europe, where SILENCERS are legal.

[Tsiyu]

38. Clear Channel

FOX News, Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck ...

they stoke the fires of racism and right wing fanatacism and hatred.

For $$$$$$$$$$$ they feed the violence like a hungry beast, so they can get more $$$$$$$ and convince the Right Wing fanatics to let them have it.

Look at Glen Beck's radio promos: "Kill Nancy Pelosi! Liberals MUST DIE!!!!" These were his words broadcast on 1510 AM in Nashville.

When some of us alerted the FCC, we were told it was a "free speech issue"

With all of that stochastic terrorism broadcast by Clear Channel and CUmulus and FOX News added to the War on Drugs, it's a great recipe for a bloodthirsty society with no regard for human life - human life that doesn't meet one's political or drug-free standards, that is.