"If you ban guns people will just use Knives and Clubs..."

[cthulu2016]

The intentional homicide rate per 100,00 population in the US is around 5. (4.8 the last couple of years, a bit over 5 for most of the 2000s)

That is intentional unlawful shootings, plus stabbings, clubbings, poisonings, running people over with cars, throwing them from buildings, strangling... the murder rate. 5 per 100K.

Italy, home of the mafia, 0.87 in 2010. Less than 20% of the American murder rate.

Japan, land of ultra-violent tentacle porn, 0.34. (And the Japanese know a thing or two about knives and swords.)

The United Kingdom... 1.23. Australia, 1.16. Ireland, 1.3. Canada, 1.62.

Among first world nations America is uniquely murderous. I do not know whether the gun-starved UK compensates with more assaults with knives and broken bottles and motorcycles chains. I just know that, for whatever reason, people in the UK are only one quarter as likely to DIE FROM UNLAWFUL ATTACKS.

I am not proposing that we ban guns. I am, however, proposing that "we" stop lying and offering preposterous arguments. There is a price paid for our gun culture. Perhaps the price is worth it... one can argue that. But one cannot argue that there is not a price.

__________

Is America the most murderous nation? No, not by a long shot. Honduras, 78. El Salvador, 66. In fact, the Americas south of the USA are murder central. Mexico, 18. Brazil, 26. The Caribbean is very murderous. Jamaica 52. Bahamas 27. Dominican Republic, 25. Russia and South Africa have high murder rates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[zbdent]

1. "people will just use Knives and Clubs" ... True ... but

that means you have to get within striking distance of your target ... and that would mean that you might just get killed yourself.

[russspeakeasy]

2. Don't forget "Stink Eye" and Evil Frowns".

[PDJane]

3. Toronto is getting some trouble with gangs lately.....

Two shot in Scarborough and the mayor is talking about 'losing the city' to gangs and gun violence. Now, not to dismiss the increase in gun violence, but I have to point out that two innocent young people losing their lives at a block party in social housing is not quite the same as someone egged on to kill 10 people and injure 70 more in a crowded theatre!

Now the mayor (a right-wing useless fool) is talking about using the immigration laws to boot these people out of his territory and increased mandatory sentencing and all of the usual violent options. What we really need is a whole bunch of money for education and work training, intervention, and all of the usual things to keep these kids out of jail.

Sigh............

[Lint Head]

4. I've never seen an automatic knife that stabs 500 to 1,500 times per minute.

[LiberalEsto]

5. It must be something in the drinking water

[sav99]

6. I'm not sure...

I'm not sure if making gun ownership illegal will help. Heroin is illegal, and has been for decades, yet there is no shortage of it here in the United States. Wouldn't illegal firearms be just as accessible to criminals as heroin or cocaine is now?

[cthulu2016]

7. That's a hard argument to make

Japan has a total hand gun ban and, despite being a rather scary culture in many ways, has the world's lowest homicide rate.

There are criminals in Japan who can get guns, of course. But still their homicide rate is only 7% of America's murder rate.

"Wouldn't illegal firearms be just as accessible to criminals as heroin or cocaine is now?"

Perhaps. But not as accessible as cigarettes. (The current state of affairs at a gun show.)

Handguns are very rare in Japan or the UK. Both nations happen to ban handguns. Hard not to see a connection.

[sav99]

9. My Question is....

if we can't keep illegal drugs out of the hands of criminals now, even with all the man power and the billions that we have spent on it over the decades, why would illegal guns be any different? Wouldn't the criminals still get guns just like they do illegal drugs?

[cthulu2016]

10. Some would, of course

The question is not, "Can all guns be kept out of the hands of all criminals." The answer to that is clearly no.

The question is, "Can the number of shootings be greatly reduced?"

That is a very different question.

Since there are nations where both guns and shootings (and murders in general) are quite rare it suggests (not proves, but strongly suggests) that the level of gun violence can be greatly reduced.

[sav99]

11. I Keep Thinking..

supply and demand. Are there people in US that want to shoot up heroin but just can't get thier hands on it because it's illegal? Or can anyone who wants to smoke some crack get it any time they want? And cocaine has to come South America. Heroin even farther away, the other side of the globe. So despite it's years and years of prohibition there is no problem at all with criminals getting it. Criminals, gangs, etc. seem to need guns in their chosen profession, I don't think passing a law against gun ownership will stop them from obtaining them in as great a quantity as they desire.

[pipoman]

13. Japan has had

far less crime than the US since the inception of the US. A very monolithic society Japan.

[pipoman]

8. US has always been more violent than much of the rest of the world

even when we all had very similar gun laws. There are many reasons for US crime. I believe a more provable correlation can be made between our "melting pot" of ethnicity and crime. More recently though, and more to the point of this most recent incident, no availability of mental health services. How many times do we have to read the same stories after one of these tragedies? Relatives and acquaintances knew the killer was unstable, they tried to get them help and were told nothing could be done until the person commits a crime. It would be funny-stupid if it wasn't so horrible and tragic.

No, the difference between the US and other nations has always been...there is no real coerrelation between the number of guns in private hands and the murder rate. If there were a correlation, the murder rate would rise every year, as it is violent crime including murder has been in decline in the US for over 20 years.

[HopeHoops]

12. How about hands and feet?