General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf Franken is forced out the Democrats are stupid and it's hopeless
Stupid, stupid people. Why not just let the Trumpsters and the rest of the nasty GOP shoot you in the heads.
Trump and Moore were real offenders and you cannot tell the difference and want to throw one of our BEST senators out NOW when were're up against the ropes?
ret5hd
(20,433 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(59,940 posts)flamingdem
(39,303 posts)Moral outrage is not a very good strategy. By the GOP sure! With billions in dark money - and now even more billions after tax "reform" passes this will NEVER END.
The Democrats will be destroyed by hearsay.
NRaleighLiberal
(59,940 posts)again - not to condone any of this behavior - but just all seems quite fishy to me.
Grab them by the pussy still in office going completely unscathed?
It all stinks.
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)and the six female dems are really, really gullible.
NRaleighLiberal
(59,940 posts)Decades of taking the high road doesn't seem to be serving our party very well.
KPN
(15,585 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)I got alerted twice of late for saying something - true, but unflattering - about an EX-Dem. And here you are demeaning the whole Demned party! Surely, the mods will do something once get up off the floor! Look forward - only forward. We gave the White House keys to Donny and that's OLD history. Just look to the future! I mean: "Stupid, stupid Dems" - I don't see how that paints the party in a soothing hue.
<- this lest some genius take me to task.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)I've been looking thru the many posts this morning. And with SO MUCH anger and defaming against the Dems and Bernie..... Is there any chance you could reinstate the two posts I recently had pulled? I don't really NEED a reminder of the "rules" of DU. If the rules meant anything, there'd be a genuine dearth of posts and OPs today.
Whaddya say? Just kiddin' of course. I've hung out here long enough that I've figured out how things "work".
Maraya1969
(22,441 posts)ones
certainot
(9,090 posts)because the idiot dem party and idiot progressive orgs ignore it.
really fucking stupid.
lame54
(35,130 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,161 posts)GOP slime machine: Jump dems!
Dems: How high should we jump? Thank you sir may we have another.
At this point I'd vote for Bernie over Gillibrand. I regret buying her book to cheer my wife up after the election.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,161 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)This is horrible. I hope he renews calls for every fucking pol under the shadow of similar accusations. Let's do THAT!
BannonsLiver
(16,161 posts)As far as the 2020 primary goes. As far as 2018 goes, Im not going to be donating to Dems who called for him to resign, specifically Claire McCaskill. I will continue to support obstruction of the Drumpf agenda, regardless. This day will likely have long term affects on my relationship with the party that are not yet fully understood. I am deeply disillusioned right now.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Will await his statement tomorrow to judge this. Something feels really off with the coordination of all this. Becasue of a hug? WTF? The blowback from this will destroy the complaints of working women.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)I genuinely want a safer environment for women to be able to expose misconduct but this has set the bar so low it makes a mockery of justice and completely undercuts women who have legitimately been abused.
As a man watching this all I can think is if we have now set the bar for sexual assault at squeezing someones waist during a hug we have just ensured that all women are a liability in the workplace. Seems to be the complete opposite of the intent. Rather than working to protect them we have made every man in america look at them with trepidation.
Maybe that is justice to sow fear into the hearts of every man in america but I suspect the blowback towards women is going to be enormous.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And I really think accuser #1 was encouraged or out right paid to lie. I just don't believe her.
cilla4progress
(24,585 posts)Dayton, Minnesota's Dem governor.
I think it's time to move forward and take Franken off the table as an excuse for rethugs. Then we can say with pride that we did what we should, while they still allow tRump, Farenthold, and now possibly Moore, to stay in power.
MFM008
(19,776 posts)Where does it end?
If he steps down the GOP will just use this tactic over and over.
Marcuse
(7,391 posts)flamingdem
(39,303 posts)The best on Russia. That kind of intelligence it not easily replaced,
Response to flamingdem (Reply #8)
Post removed
notdarkyet
(2,226 posts)Spineless dems.
kcr
(15,300 posts)and you have to vote for these sadsacks to keep much worse sadsacks from winning. Yay.
Nay
(12,051 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)...the feisty party it used to be.
SergeStorms
(18,882 posts)don't offend anyone. We can't use language that offends anyone!
That is all. Love and peace to everyone!
Codeine
(25,586 posts)has been utterly destroyed. If he stayed on the Al Franken going forward would be a shadow of the senator he was prior to this foofarah.
Response to cilla4progress (Reply #4)
Cattledog This message was self-deleted by its author.
Bettie
(15,995 posts)and we get rid of Franken.
Next time a Dem challenges them, they find some anonymous people with iffy claims and we get rid of that person too.
Then there is another and another as they fill the house and senate with truly evil people who are above any sort of recriminations because our side is too busy purging all of our effective legislators.
They will never stop and we'll just form another circular firing squad...I'm sickened by this.
nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)This is just stupid...apparently easier and cheaper to "win" back house and senate seats is Tim push out strong sitting Democrats
Bettie
(15,995 posts)Now?
We'll never get another Dem elected...unlimited money from PACs and Churches will find all kinds of anonymous accusers and our party will demand that the candidates/elected officials just quit.
Why even bother?
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I don't know how much more of this I can take. I feel so betrayed by our own spineless "leaders". When the going gets tough, they roll over and play possum. Frankly, I am thoroughly disgusted. I don't think I could be any more despairing than I am right now.
regnaD kciN
(26,035 posts)...we'll see similar charges against a Democrat from a state with a Republican governor to make the appointment. And, if we don't press for that Democrat to resign immediately as well, we'll be painted as hypocrites. Count on it.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Bibluca
(63 posts)Franken's standard answer from now on should be: "I'll resign when Mr. Trump resigns."
That's it. The conversation ends there. No discussion. Walk away.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Old Vet
(2,001 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,058 posts)questionseverything
(9,631 posts)good luck ever keeping any decent democrat in office if the bar is
they have never touched another human being
the repubs hate franken because he had the audacity to actually count the votes in the election they had stolen
another dem will not be the same and no dem will ever be safe again
58Sunliner
(4,339 posts)It's BS and I would never expect anyone to be indicted on my hearsay. We will have all kinds of problems stemming from this. It will not be as easy as you think. Why doesn't Franken get due process?
spotthebird
(171 posts)WyLoochka
(1,629 posts)Railroading a colleague out of the Senate without due process is not "the right thing to do."
GusBob
(7,286 posts)we are battling the GOP on the right flank, and battling ourselves from the left and center
notdarkyet
(2,226 posts)nm
tomp
(9,512 posts)the center moves left and we all fight the republicans, kinda like roosevelt. Worked before.
cilla4progress
(24,585 posts)when all the MOC who have exposure on this issue are gone.
Sad but true.
And if much of this is fabricated, Franken will have his opportunity to rebut, while Congressional Dems have a clear field to go hard after all the rethugs still in office.
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)He will not be easily replaced.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)CrispyQ
(36,221 posts)But hey, when they go low, we go high. And after 40 years of that policy, the GOP has their boot on our neck. We're just battling for our country, so why not sacrifice one of our best bulldogs, based on specious claims, without any kind of inquiry? WTF?
I've lost respect for the Democratic Party. They need a spine implant & have needed one for about 40 years, & more recently I think they could use a brain implant, too.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)This argument puzzles me. Do we really think that out of 5 million people, Franken is the only one who's that sharp, articulate and outspoken?
bathroommonkey76
(3,827 posts)Give us some names from those '5 million people' you mentioned and I'll reevaluate my position.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)bathroommonkey76
(3,827 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,827 posts)but, the list of Minnesota Democrats that could do the job as well as Al Franken is probably a very short one. How many Democrats in all of the US that you can name that are Harvard graduates, have a history in media, are best selling authors with a great sense of humor and are also hard working, diligent and great at questioning witnesses?
CrispyQ
(36,221 posts)And yes, I do think that combination of attributes is difficult to find. Sharp, or quick on your feet, I think, is a quality that good comedians share. Attorneys, you'd hope so, but not always so much.
This is all about dems looking good, nothing about right and wrong.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Cosmocat
(14,543 posts)He is undeniably one of the handful of strongest voices we have, with Bernie, Warren ... Can't find many more.
notdarkyet
(2,226 posts)More_Cowbell
(2,190 posts)Please tell us who you think could have done that. Because no one else in the Senate did.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)at all costs. We're not. They are using our sense of fairness against us. This will end poorly.
I dont get it at all. Ive beaten myself up wording whats so hard to figure out?! The GOP have been fighting with no regards to the country and what the majority of the people think...Cutthroat win at all costs, yet the Dems seem to want play by the book, take the high road. When will they get it through their thick heads that playing fair and nice the last 20 yrs only gets your teeth kicked in politically?
spotthebird
(171 posts)He can't quit for this
lame54
(35,130 posts)His dirty tricks push out our strongest Senator while he shoves a pedophile through the system in time to vote on a devastating tax bill
A Moore victory will embolden Bannon in his scheme to fill Washington with the worst of the worst
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)They're laughing at us
annabanana
(52,791 posts)should NEVER be showcased the way he has been on TV today.
HootieMcBoob
(3,823 posts)The pizza gate, alt right fascist was able to get Seder fired from MSNBC.
Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)He is no doubt rotf
HipChick
(25,485 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)mac56
(17,561 posts)COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)kick the shit out of us - now we're committed to kicking ourselves!!! Franken's response should be one sentence: "I'll resign when Trump does". Nothing more. Let the Rethugs choke on it.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)There is no other response to this bullshit!
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,353 posts)Anybody running or thinking about running for office will need to ensure that there is absolutely NOTHING.....I MEAN NOTHING.....questionable or problematic lurking in their past history. Of course, everybody's got skeletons and opponents and opportunists seeking to bring you down in politics, so the possibility that one can avoid any problems during a campaign or even years later when in office seems extremely low, especially when people can make accusations until they start mounting up, forcing you into a position where you may be pressured to resign without fully examining everything. I'm not saying we shouldn't take accusations of misconduct seriously but if we start throwing everybody out of office before fully examining charges and taking account of everything, we won't have anybody left considered fit or "pure" enough to serve.
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)Nothing anonymous should be allowed when it comes to accusations of impropriety.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Bettie
(15,995 posts)if you ever hugged someone, they can claim that you touched their butt and you are out!
If you ever hit on someone and got shot down, you are evil and must leave the race.
If you ever told an off-color joke, sorry, you're gone.
If you have ever been human....nope, can't risk it.
Greybnk48
(10,147 posts)when that fat ugly fuck in Texas with the duckie pajamas is still leering and grinning at us, and they're seating a known pedophile in the Senate, ugh!
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)The second story? Ask yourselves why.
I cant believe the Democrats are so stupid to be manipulated by Roger Stone like this. Unbelievable
standingtall
(2,785 posts)If Franken were to resign over this the repukes will pull a bait and switch right around the time of the Minnesota special election and portray the Democratic party as being overran by hyper feminist for forcing out Franken to suppress turnout among Democratic males.
elfin
(6,262 posts)The callers for his scalp are emboldened by the fact that the Dem governor of Minn would appoint another Dem to fill the vacancy. I think it is a woman, but not sure.
There is a process - use it. The ethics committee. Then if it keeps piling on, Franken can announce he won't run when his term is up, but will continue to serve until then.
I haven't seen anything yet that suggests more than very bad and stupid behavior. I still do not think he is a predatory danger to females. Just icky.
bhusar
(131 posts)When is our side going to play by the same rules the GOP does? David Vitter never resigned, Moore is still in, yet we have to resign. Our pundits like Sam Seder are fired, I am sick of this.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)I prefer the unrestrained, over-the-top Al Franken who "wrote the book" on how fucked up Washington is!
Anybody can be a senator - or president - but there is only one gawdam Al Franken!!!
ancianita
(35,812 posts)Turbineguy
(37,206 posts)Adam Schiff and Eric Swalwell could be next.
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)a couple of months ago. They really don't have anything on him just innuendo.
Turbineguy
(37,206 posts)So it seems.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)There isn't, obviously, so how could that "accusation" be used to smear him
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)gay or some bullshit.
Failed attempt
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)Thanks
Orrex
(63,084 posts)is the ability to lie down belly-up in response to Republican bluster.
If Franken steps down, then look for his replacement to be weak, non-wave-making figure who'll sit quietly in the back of the room until a Republican can come along to replace him or her.
Mr.Bill
(24,103 posts)is Donald Trump.
tapermaker
(244 posts)Because all they have to do is say they grabbed my ass and it's all over for a man. If Dems are to go forward as a party they need to get rid of men because they have dicks so are not to be believed when it comes to sex .no matter how many hundreds of women sign statements vouching for their charachter.
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)This is BAD for feminism and makes women look ridiculous when or if it's used for personal gain at the expense of someone else.
liberal_patriot_md
(194 posts)But this could turn even more men away from the party.
Relatively innocuous behavior (and be honest - it is) that could happen to anyone in the same position (its happened to me in group photos or in quick meet and greet photo ops) is being exaggerated (without clear evidence it even happened) and a popular male Democratic Senator has had his party leadership and colleagues turn against him.
Guys will see the knives come out over this scandal and wonder - is there a place for me in the Democratic Party?
BadgerKid
(4,541 posts)The GOP keeps their voters while the dems agreeably fall on their swords.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)That's a ridiculous pipe dream. We vote him out.
DemKittyNC
(743 posts)NEVER been so angry in all my life. This is a GOP hit job!!!!
FUCK the GOP and the goddamn republicans they can all burn in hell!!!!
tapermaker
(244 posts)There the ones rolling over and calling for this champion of feminism to to be removed
The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)But we will have a moral victory.
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)when we have fellow Dems willing to trash one another.
Franken has admitted to boorish behavior and frat-boy pranks. He's owned the incident (s) and apologized. Short of crucifying himself what else is required?
All things in the world of harassment are not equal. As thinking human beings we need to make distinctions. Al Franken does not = Roy Moore. Al Franken does not = Donald J. Trump or Blake Farenthold who paid out $84000 in taxpayer money for a harassment allegation. Where are the cries for Farenthold to resign??
Franken is a strong Democratic voice and fighter. He has openly invited an ethics investigation. So why preempt that investigation with a pointless purge?
Democrats excel at shooting themselves in the foot while allowing the right-wing to get away with murder.
Who needs enemies??
alwaysinasnit
(5,037 posts)Thanks for voicing aloud what a lot of us are thinking.
Lanius
(599 posts)Why can't the Democrats just let the Senate ethics investigation take its course? Why hold a press conference and demand Franken's resignation? What good does that do, other than allowed them to pat themselves on the back for their smug self-righteousness?
As far as the men go, they should never touch a woman they don't know (other than a handshake). Don't even put a hand on a woman's back or shoulder during a picture. That's the best way to protect yourself from any sexual harassment claims later on. Republicans don't care about sexual harassment or sexual assault, but they know it outrages Democrats.
roscoeroscoe
(1,369 posts)I mean, C'mon man! Really!? Really!
This is not what I expect from Democratic party leaders! Come on and fight dammit!
catchnrelease
(1,941 posts)People made fun of him for saying he won't be alone at dinner etc with a woman unless his wife is there too. Maybe he was onto something! Always have a chaperone.
(I think he's as creepy and crooked as hell, but he came to mind when I read your second paragraph.)
dhol82
(9,351 posts)She was very nice and took my pissed off message with good grace. Told her I thought her calling for his resignation was reprehensible and why was she not allowing the ethics office do their job?
Not sure it will do anything but I at least tried.
classof56
(5,376 posts)As I remarked in a previous thread about the call for Franken's resignation, I wonder if Gillibrand et al will welcome Roy Moore with open arms when he takes office, which I'm pretty sure will happen. I am becoming more and more disenchanted with Democratic MOC, which leaves me with this awful empty feeling there's no place for progressives to turn in today's political climate. Not quite ready to give up, but I too am so pissed off I can hardly find words to express my despair. Right now I'm going to e-mail Al Franken (once again) and tell him not to resign. Hope he listens!
Peace.
dhol82
(9,351 posts)Begging him not to resign.
He is one of the few sane voices in the senate and it would be tragic to lose him.
I smell this as a Roger Stone dirty tricks campaign.
He and his cohorts will not stop. Watch them come up with more complainants against other Dems.
wryter2000
(46,016 posts)What he's done doesn't rise to real harassment. it doesn't fit the pattern. We're playing the Republican's game for them. It needs to stop!
dchill
(38,315 posts)Roy Moore "My esteemed colleague from Alabama." LUDICROUS!
KPN
(15,585 posts)And the American people get screwed.
While going high is admirable, in this case the medicine is particularly hard to swallow. We're in the midst of a war to save our democracy and our Constitution. We can't tell the difference or make a distinction between frigging Moore, Barton, Trump et al and Al Franken to save our country????
Instead of temporarily adopting the standard GOP guidelines for comportment (Principles will kill you; it's either them or it's us; nice guys/gals come in last; etc.) how about let's just surrender and be done with it.
BootinUp
(46,924 posts)flamingdem
(39,303 posts)but along the way they can lose us - because of their choices.
I don't agree with sacrificing Franken for some greater good.
It feels poorly considered and must have to do with the person or people they want to run in 2020.
Those people want Franken out of the way and they may be going after the female vote.
As in run a female again. Gillibrand thinks so
rainin
(3,010 posts)Jeroen
(1,061 posts)Response to flamingdem (Original post)
KPN This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)MSM has maybe a half second coverage of Doug Jones camping in AL in between dragging Franken out for his hourly flogging!
cstanleytech
(26,080 posts)usaf-vet
(6,092 posts)Fight is not in their vocabulary. I've given up on them as a defender of the rights and needs of the majority of the American citizens. They are useless. I used to get frustrated when they only brought "knives to political gun fights". Now they bring the extra high capacity magazines for the guns the republicans are carrying. If Franken is to go it will (SHOULD) be the voters in MN that should decide. After all McConnell, Ryan and Trump have said that is the case for Roy Moore. And to all MN voters who fail to vote for Franken. Make sure when you are out buying bullets for the republicans weapons that they are the right caliber. Hint you can't go wrong if you by loud, useless, bigoted GOP specials. They work especially well in the deep the mud and BS.
wryter2000
(46,016 posts)I'm in CA, so I called my wonderful senator, who's absolutely wrong for all the right reasons on this issue. I hope Al gets thousands of calls in support. He should not resign.
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)She should know how we feel in California
ancianita
(35,812 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 6, 2017, 09:20 PM - Edit history (1)
Never. Franken should never step down.
This silly Democratic Party makes a purist argument that says all who relate inappropriately to females -- without reference to contexts or males' admitted misjudgments -- should resign. Fuck women who don't know their male allies.
No way should a feminist like Franken resign. His conduct with hundreds, even thousands of women in his public office, and even in the comedy field, is supported by far more females than the few brought forward by Roger Stone and his O'Keeferans.
We Democrats call out and jail our criminals. But I'm one Dem who won't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. We can win voters, and the presidency again, with that stance.
THINK, WOMEN. THINK! REALIZE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MALE ALLIES AND PREDATORS!
whathehell
(28,968 posts)ancianita
(35,812 posts)The whole party is not female.
Not all the female Democrats are silly.
But the ones calling for Franken's resignation without due process are.
whathehell
(28,968 posts).I agree that the party IS acting weak and silly...I'm a woman as well, and I just called Franken's office and urged him to hang tough, to stay and not resign...I said "The Republicans aren't resigning, why should you"?
The Dems are always caving...When will they grow a spine?
ancianita
(35,812 posts)They'll grow a spine when their leadership does. Or what the hell is a party leadership for.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)This just sucks...I hate it.
ancianita
(35,812 posts)whathehell
(28,968 posts)The Senators addressing the issue could have asily have given that in response to any questions on regarding resignation. I am depressed and I think we should all give these spineless Dems hell.
StevieM
(10,499 posts)"This silly female Democratic Party?"
ancianita
(35,812 posts)RKP5637
(67,030 posts)alarimer
(16,245 posts)So that they (may, depending on the state's rules) replace a D with an R. Of course that all depends on whether the state requires the replacement to be of the same party as the one who quits.
I know whoever Dayton appoints would probably be fine, but how soon would they be seated? Before or after the final tax vote? And of course, they would likely not be the attack dog that Franken is, or at least not right away. (I personally hope he appoints Ellison in the event of a resignation).
Still, nothing that Franken is alleged to have done (but the evidence is paper-think at best) compares at all to Conyers or Farenthold (who seems to be staying put, the utter pig) and certainly not to Moore or Trump himself.
askyagerz
(776 posts)And if he did he needs to go. To act like you all know 100% for sure what's going on makes you all sound as silly as republicans. Hit job or not...
I have gone almost 40 years without harassing a woman and expect the same from every American politician. And to whine about how he can't be replaced makes the party sound kinda desperate.
ancianita
(35,812 posts)Don't think good senators are as replaceable as car parts. They're not.
There's no "if he did" until there is an ethics hearing. You don't even mention that.
The fact that your 40 years of perfect behavior hasn't translated into your being an examplary model of a political leader might mean that you don't have many other important qualifications which I expect from every American politician.
You can stop holding up the perfect as the enemy of the good. Like now.
askyagerz
(776 posts)Without needing a ethics investigation on himself. And yes I expect my senators to be better people then me and I'm not even that great of person so if they can't pass that test they can go. And again to say he can't be replaced makes this party sound desperate. It's about the message not the messenger
Lunabell
(5,919 posts)The investigation needs to finish first. He denies the allegations and I think we should withhold judgement for now.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)For this most blatant of political assassinations.
Unfortunately, Dems are more afraid of the Republicans, and so are going to let them get away with it.
This is how we continue to lose, even when Democratic values predominant among voters.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,267 posts)are making statements for public consumption ("See? WE don't tolerate sexual misconduct of any kind, unlike those child-molesting, pussy-grabbing Republicans! We're so virtuous that we'd happily throw out one of our most effective members just to show the world how totally virtuous we are!) and that once that is done, Franken will announce that he will not resign unless the ethics investigation supports the claims of the accusers. And the other Dems, having established their virtue, will accept the outcome of the ethics investigation if it substantially exonerates him.
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)They've really pushed him out at this point. Mostly to further their own careers I bet.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,267 posts)I think he probably understands that a lot of this virtuous gum-flapping is for public consumption.
Dopers_Greed
(2,640 posts)They're giving the Republicans even more power on a silver platter
kacekwl
(6,993 posts)I guess it's time to say it again. It seems to me sometimes they (both parties) are in some kind of game to keep fucking with us and keep some club together. I can see no other explanation for this type of thing happening.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)and it makes the two parties are the same meme sting.
nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)Sounds like even if he is cleared, the decision has already been made.
I'm disgusted at how quick Dems are to turn on their own.
This is just insanity.
So what, if the investigation exonerates Franken but he stepped down...what was the point?
ancianita
(35,812 posts)Moral Compass
(1,498 posts)Amazing how well choreographed this is...
The timing of all this is so suspect, but no one can come out and question the sincerity of the accusers as that would be an intolerable offense in and of itself.
Note how the accusations seem to just slide off of the elder Bush and wont adhere to Moore or Trump. Where are Frankens ardent defenders? Where are Conyers?
The Democrats own leadership call for resignations to demonstrate our comparative moral purity.
We have formed the circular firing squad.
Listo! Apunte! Fuego!
avebury
(10,946 posts)Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,063 posts)I'm not excusing Franken if he did those things but let the system play out. Investigate it. What he's accused of doesn't even rise to the level of Roy Moore.
The timing of this is bone headed as it gets. So let's assure the GOP tax cuts go through. Limousine liberals like Gillibrand and Tom Perez won't be hurt by them.
mehrrh
(233 posts)Don't do it, Franken.
Tweeden was part of the comedy skit, and she wasn't even asleep in that comedy pictrure, according to the photographer.
Another woman claimas, years later, that Franken touched her butt while her husband was taking their picture! Not credible.
Staff from SNL and from his Senate office have all come out in his defense whereas his accusers are anonymous.
nvme
(860 posts)The party is willing to sacrifice Al despite his accomplishments, because how can they claim the moral high ground should Pedophile Roy Moore get elected. It is an idiotic move because the Republican senate will not exclude more. They will embrace him like a newborn babe despite him being covered in child molesting scandal. They just don't " want "A Nancy Pelosi/ Chuck Schumer" automaton (Their words not mine). So we throw one the top Dems to the lions in hope Repubs will do likewise. Good Luck with that!
dalton99a
(81,065 posts)Pepsidog
(6,252 posts)Paladin
(28,202 posts)BootinUp
(46,924 posts)RUNAWAY! RUNAWAY!
electron_blue
(3,592 posts)Botany
(70,281 posts).... internet.", Hillary did nothing to save those people in Benghazi, John Kerry was not
a war hero, Ohio 2004 was clean, and on and on.
This is a right wing hit job. see this "Its my right as an entertainer. please
Another woman says Franken tried to forcibly kiss her
Source: Politico
A former Democratic congressional aide said Al Franken tried to forcibly kiss her after a taping of his radio show in 2006, three years before he became a U.S. senator.
The aide, whose name POLITICO is withholding to protect her identity, said Franken (D-Minn.) pursued her after her boss had left the studio. She said she was gathering her belongings to follow her boss out of the room. When she turned around, Franken was in her face.
The former staffer ducked to avoid Frankens lips. As she hastily left the room, she said, Franken told her: Its my right as an entertainer.
He was between me and the door and he was coming at me to kiss me. It was very quick and I think my brain had to work really hard to be like Wait, what is happening? But I knew whatever was happening was not right and I ducked, the aide said in an interview. I was really startled by it and I just sort of booked it towards the door and he said, Its my right as an entertainer.
Read more: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/al-franken-accusation-sexual-harassment-2006-281049
Time for the men to stand up and force the facts to come out!
Al loves Frannie and would never do this.
If I am wrong, then he must go, BUT, prove these events happened.
Gymbo
(133 posts)If Al Franken wants to turn this around he needs to sue the accusers. Nothing will change the dialog faster than a lawsuit where the accusers have to show up in court with proof.
bullimiami
(13,037 posts)badhair77
(4,191 posts)These accusations are payback for Frankens aggressive interrogation of Sessions. That and trying to diminish the accusations against Roy Moore. The timing is no coincidence. Unless there are more damaging accusations we dont know about I hope he waits out the ethics investigation.
In the meantime Ive lost tremendous respect for several members of the Senate who seem to have buckled to Republicans pressure.
delisen
(6,039 posts)Efilroft Sul
(3,573 posts)Christ on a crutch.
vi5
(13,305 posts)...is that once again Dems fall all over themselves to do the right thing, and then they actually, naively (or maybe stupidly) expect that it somehow inoculates them against Republican criticism, or even more naively (or stupidly) think that it means that Republicans will actually be forced to hold themselves to the same standard.
It's not going to happen. Republicans have no shame. Republicans don't care how hypocritical they seem. They don't care about doing the right thing. Democrats will not get any credit for doing anything.
And you can throw in the useless DC beltway media as well to all of this.
KPN
(15,585 posts)expecting to get credit for taking the moral high ground, it's naively expecting it will win votes. It won't. In fact, it'll probably lead to more I's, Green Party and Working Family Party members.
Maybe it's time to finally examine my own loyalty to the Democratic Party. Doesn't make much sense to keep riding a horse that doesn't seem to have the moxie to actually win this war. I am increasingly disappointed in the leaders of this party.
vi5
(13,305 posts)I'm in the same boat. It feels like a 35 year one sided, dysfunctional relationship.
Where were all the high minded leaders when our economy, its structure, its jobs, the wage scale, benefits got pillaged over the past 35 years?!
47of74
(18,470 posts)my.democrats.org/page/s/contact-the-democrats
I told them that Republicans would love to see me dead and that theyd gladly help the GOP pull the trigger by trying to force Franken from office.
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)I'm trying all the emails and numbers
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Done civil rights, sex harassment 30 years. They aren't even letting him have an investigation!!!
If they put half as much energy into fighting this tax bill, maybe they could stop it. Many of those women, I have raised money for in close races. This is what they bring to the Senate. We should call them! Call him and encourage him to hang on.
If after a complee and full investigation, he is truly guilty of something non trivial, kick his butt out. Holy moly, we are eating our own, and the Repubs are lauging all of the way to the bank.
Hell, get Ronan Farrow on it. Someone ivestigate this, and sliw down. It's a lynch mob.
Another false equivalency!
hadEnuf
(2,149 posts)The Repigs have found that this works, so they will keep doing it and doing it and doing it.
Foolish move if this happens.
samplegirl
(11,415 posts)Shit all over us?
mreilly
(2,120 posts)Last edited Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:43 AM - Edit history (1)
.... but actually profit from what they did, since their worthless, shithole supporters just shriek they're "being picked on," "all those women are lying," but oh, of course, Al Franken is a serial rapist who must resign.
They're being allowed to frame the narrative. If Franken isn't gutsy enough to stick it out and fight them I question whether he was fit to square off against the GOP in the first place.
If this happens, it will only be the first time. The GOP will learn they can use this tactic to destroy anyone who gets in their way, while steadfastly protecting their own 100% of the time. They honestly insist that Moore and Trump not admitting what they did clears them and proves them 100%.
As if every single criminal defendant who files a plea of "Not Guilty" is automatically exonerated and should just be immediately released.
I expect nauseating, hypocritical, loathsome assholery of the lowest order from the GOP. That's the kind of walking shit they are.
What I also expect is for Democrats to stand up to this walking shit and not obediently be manipulated into falling on their swords, when there is not a single Republican out there EVER who would do the same; they'll just whine and lie and deny it and sob how mean everyone is being to them.
If they aren't going to exhibit one shred of decency and integrity and use that of our guys to hang them, we're screwed.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)I agree with you 100%
MFM008
(19,776 posts)They brazen it out.
They call accusers LIARS.
No matter if 16 or 100 accuse them.
We cave.
We "do the right thing" and sit warmly on our moral superority
and LOSE
and LOSE again
The rapists and child molesters make the bills that
destroy our lives and KILL our family members.
great plan.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Maybe, JUST MAYBE, somebody knows something 'we' don;t know and there really is an issue.
BUT, as of now I do NOT believe it.
And what the fuck is my senator GILLI doing saying Al should quit.. ???
Does SHE know something?? Hummm....
I seriously doubt it...
I think it is a hit job.
And until that is proven otherwise...
AL- stay right where you are..
steventh
(2,143 posts)We need you. Stand firm.
PLEASE!!!! DO NOT RESIGN!!! Your intelligence and integrity are needed now in these terrible times. Don't make Elizabeth and Bernie stand up alone for Americans without your voice and vision.
It's the height of folly for any Democrat to suggest that you resign. I doubt the allegations against you are true. You doubt them yourself, don't you. Even if they were true, your apology is sufficient to put the matter behind you. We have a pussy grabber in the White House and it appears we're about to have a pedophile from Alabama in the Senate. Your alleged actions are nothing next to those.
If not you, who will stand up to the terrible Republicans who gerrymandered and cheated their way into power? You are America's greatest hope for surviving the horror that is US politics nowadays.
If you and all the Democrats don't stand up to the Republicans many will die. Yes. Die. When they demolish the safety net.
What do you think of the rumor that tRump is considering private security police? Think he won't try it? Think it's bad now? It could get way worse.
Please re-read Kipling's poem "If."
http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_if.htm
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)and begged him not to resign.
https://www.franken.senate.gov/?p=email_al
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)Response to flamingdem (Reply #151)
Pacifist Patriot This message was self-deleted by its author.
scipan
(2,295 posts)Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)Stay in Congress, Al.
Let the ethics committee do their job.
Then we shall see.
bagelsforbreakfast
(1,427 posts)mountain grammy
(26,568 posts)no one cares if we take the high road.. Republicans will stay in power. No, Al should not resign.
xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)franken.senate.gov. Sent him a note asking him to stay in spite of the whine we are hearing. He is the only out-of-state Democratic candidate I have ever given donations (other than presidential candidates).
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)I thought I'd have to be a Minn voter.
Maybe I'll just do it anyway as a CA voter
xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)and I used my CA address. This is a national, not a state issue. We all need him in the senate
sprinkleeninow
(20,133 posts)got a thank you acknowledgment.
beaglelover
(3,435 posts)ananda
(28,780 posts)I have this horrible sinking feeling in my stomach ...
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)If anything, Franken should have been dangled as part of a deal...
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,773 posts)lillypaddle
(9,580 posts)He's being railroaded. Fuck Kristen Gillibrand.
mnhtnbb
(31,316 posts)Tried to send a message through his official senate office site and got an oops, couldn't find the page response
after I clicked send.
sinkingfeeling
(51,274 posts)2004, destroy Planned Parenthood, and now are most progressive Senator. If Franken quits, I'm done with the DNC.
StevieM
(10,499 posts)lark
(22,995 posts)The party will have abdicated and Russia and the RW Christo-fascists, rapists, child molesters and orange assface win. As long as I'm here, I will continue to vote for the Dems, but I will do my best to get my family to agree to move to Portugal. This country will be over because all power will have been ceded to the enemies of democracy.
orleans
(33,986 posts)kacekwl
(6,993 posts)head shake
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,760 posts)right after Trump and Moore do.
ffr
(22,644 posts)flamingdem
(39,303 posts)(202) 224-5641
Call this number, Franken's Washington office and leave your message of support.
wryter2000
(46,016 posts)I think he should announce that he'll wait until the ethics investigation is over. That investigation will produce no good evidence he did anything wrong.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)and... the punishment should fit the crime. Resignation is not called for for these offenses for someone who has admitted and apologized.
ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)Rather than later in the process however. I feel bad for Franken, he's a favorite, but he lost the handle on the story immediately. All this was, a takedown of a possible candidate, and the pitbull who's been nipping at the heels, and it was easy. Easy peasy.
K
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)Especially with Gillibrand leading the way and Harris closely following.
Problem is neither are terribly talented
scipan
(2,295 posts)The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.
Dems are so spineless.
samnsara
(17,570 posts)flamingdem
(39,303 posts)127 dems would not vote for impeachment today
angrychair
(8,592 posts)First, that belittles the significance of coming forth as a victim of sexual misconduct. That is no easy admission. I am a victim of child molestation and admitting that in public is not easy or without its own costs, both emotionally and physically.
We can get past this and still be successful. As we saw in the off-year elections a month ago: there are intelligent, committed and well-spoken people out there willing to step up and serve their their community and their country.
This may be the end of one tale but the beginning of so many more.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)There are TWO public accusations: One by the altrightwingnut, who had allegations that he disagreed with and which the photo did not support. He admitted to conducting a practice session with her of a comedy sketch where they had to kiss. Come on, now. That's a stretch.
The second was someone who says in 2006 he tried to kiss her, when he was a DJ on some show..saying that "it was his right as an entertainer" to kiss her. She was able to avoid the kiss & left. HE HAS STRONGLY DENIED THIS HAPPENED, and said that her saying he said that about it being his right is preposterous.
Not really in the same league of what we normally see in public accusers of sexual harassment or molestation or abuse of power. These were two specious things.
I'm inclined to believe all women who PUBLICLY claim molestation. These two incidents are hard to believe. They sound contrived.
Is that all that is required? An allegation of "he tried to kiss me once," and we demand he resign from the Senate? Is that all that is required? There was no abuse of power...he wasn't in a power position. He denies both instances of what they claim. He has NO history of this. An entire group of women he worked with for years have signed a letter verifying his respectful treatment of them.
So...is this all that's required? We don't even wait to catch a breath? No investigation?
This is like a shark frenzy. An overreaction to any claim by anyone, even anonymously. But only on the Democratic Party side. There are no calls for Trump to resign, despite public accusations of I think almost 20 women. Sen. Schumer has called for Franken to resign, but has never called for Trump to resign. Odd, don't you think? Why is that?
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts).. 80 women if this is the type of shit that's being claimed its not worthy of losing a job
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)She actually said "I don't let my HUSBAND touch me that way!" and called it groping. OMG!
This is a setup. Something's up. A group of women have banded to together against him for some reason, w/o evidence.
Either that, or it's a shark frenzy. Which means these women are incapable of behaving like adults in the midst of a crowd of kids.
This matters. This railroading. This coordinated effort to oust an elected official based on allegations (mild ones) by anonymous people.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Seriously. He put his arm on her waist to get close to take a pic...at HER request...that's right. He put his hand on her waist...and she calls that groping. But hey...she got her pic in the paper, right? That's what matters.
As I said, you don't know the facts.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)I could puke that anyone who believes this false equivalence to longstanding patterns of sexual assaults on minors by Moore and Dump.
I could scream that anyone is letting themselves be distracted, let alone Democrats demanding Frankens resignation, all started by this backstabbing assault begun by a reich-wing soft-porn entertainment personality, years after the supposed incident, in which she acted out improprieties with performers on stage.
MojoWrkn
(139 posts)mountain grammy
(26,568 posts)Hit job and Dems going along. Will we ever learn? This is how they roll and win.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)PatrickforO
(14,514 posts)About these calls from Democrats for Franken to resign:
Some might say the word 'stupid?'
Others might say 'short sighted?'
Oh, and did you know that millennials overwhelmingly favor a third party. The Democrats will have to earn their votes and their commitment. Not to mention that:
Independent voters = 42%
Democrats = 29%
Republicans = 22%
So...what is the party doing to capture those 42% of independents? Demanding that Franken resign while staying silent on Roy Moore and Trump isn't gonna do it. And the millennials, 80 million strong, voting age? They are savvy and cynical, and they quite know bullshit when they see it. And this is it.
Force Franken to resign before the investigation is done, and the Democratic party will lose all momentum going into an election they should sweep.
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)You might say they're pandering to it.
I'd like to hear a solid explanation and so far the spokespeople seem to think it's the obvious thing to do.
NO IT IS NOT
a la izquierda
(11,784 posts)And IDGAF if this gets me banned from this site. This is outrageous.
Willie Pep
(841 posts)Republicans know their candidates can get away with bad behavior because their voters don't care. Trump proved this as does the fact that Moore might win his race which will be close even if he loses. Democrats are held to a higher standard and the GOP knows that a lot of Democratic voters are fair weather and might stay home if they smear a Democratic candidate enough.
wisteria
(19,581 posts)Soxderrube
(37 posts)And the democratic senator of my state Tammy Baldwin is leading the ouster, I am so ashamed, we are DOOMED!
Rhiannon12866
(202,970 posts)I always liked her a great deal - she used to be my congresswoman.
Welcome to DU, Soxderrube! We're glad to have you with us!
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)Norm Coleman was on some righty show the other day making noise like he might run again - remember Al had a lengthy recount against Coleman in 2008. So there's that. I'd also remind everyone that Al had issues with feminists during his '08 run over a piece he had written for Playboy.
If Al & Conyers had stayed, the Dems would be open to charges of hypocrisy over Moore, the Access Hollywood recording, etc.
I think if he rode it out, he'd survive 2020, but they also know if Conyers and Franken leave, the treatment of women by GOPers like Moore will become a sharp stick in their hind quarters in 2018 -- assuming that we, in fact, have free and fair elections next year. The Dems can rightly claim to have done their own house cleaning.
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)A very bad decision - Al could survive once the media attention moves elsewhere and the claims are proven to be baseless and / or not provable
LenaBaby61
(6,965 posts)What have you seen that's given you HOPE that we will have fair elections in 2018?
I've seen not a lot.
Yes, Dems did well in Virginia. They have a Dem governor. And next year, they'll be going to paper ballots and a Dem Gov./Lt. Dem Gov. will be replacing the departing ones. Yes, that's a wonderful improvement and a great victory in Virginia. In NC, there is a Dem governor in place, and a Jim Crow era voter-suppression law died as the Supreme Court would not hear N.C.vs N.C. NAACP ..... case earlier this year. But, did that Jim Crow really die? Chief Justice Roberts wrote a brief opinion strongly implying that laws like this one could survive review, and it'll be before a Republican-controlled Supreme Court, and I don't trust Goursuch as far as I can throw a semi-truck. It's a wait and see concerning NC down the road. As for Texas , courts had ruled that there were voting districts which were drawn in a racist way that hurt a certain part of the population (We know which part of the population those laws hurt) which had to be redrawn by 2018's mid-terms. However, thuglican Gov. Abbot signed a law which once AGAIN will make it difficult for "certain parts of the population" to vote. Those rulings in Texas are so back and fourth/up and down that it's difficult to keep up. Suffice it to say however, that Texas won't be going Dem anytime soon if thuglicans have anything to do with it, and if voter ID laws are strictly enforced like they will be. The current Abbot regime of course doesn't believes in fair voting rights in Texas, because if they did they'd see to it that minorities, the poor, the elderly (Who may not have birth certificates to get ID's) had access to the voter ID's that you need in order to vote there.
Also, there's a huge ruling coming from a right-winged Supreme Court which will more than likely give Wisconsin thuglicans the go ahead to resume their gerrymandering ways, which will take Wisconsin OUT of Dem's hands for the unforeseeable future. Chalk Wisconsin up for thuglicans.
Now, we know that thuglicans WILL continue on with Citizens United. Voter-crosschecking & Voter Id'ing, ANY form of voter-suppression that they can come up with "off the chain" in 2018 to stop Dems votes from counting and to stop them from voting period. We know that our voting machines can be comprised/hacked. That they malfunction. Are not maintained thanks to tRumputin getting rid of laws maintaining them. We also know that the ruskies will continue helping thuglicans and spreading the seeds of discord into our elections. In what way this next time, who knows? I've seen NO upside to moral purity at this time, especially since thuglicans control the collection of votes and of tallying of them. Do you really trust them to count all Dem votes fairly or at ALL? Do you trust tRump, Kris Kobach, Bannon, Roger Stone and that cabal of cheating thugs to be fair to Dems? Do you think thuglicans want to give up all that power to pass tax cuts and get rid of Social Security and Medicare?
Dems can do all the moral high-grounding they want to which they think will get them the Senate, House and Presidency. But, with thuglicans firmly in place and putting their WHOLE bodies on the voting scales, I know whose clock will be getting cleaned by whom in 2018 and 2020. That's if we have elections in 2020. My friend laughs at me when I say that to him, but when I ask him if he ever though that the ruskies would be interfering into our elections to the point of helping tRumputin earn his illegitimate presidential win over Hillary Clinton, he stops laughing. I'll be going Independent in January 2018. I'm tired of watching Dems play Charlie Brown to thuglicans Lucy.
flamingdem
(39,303 posts)I cross my fingers that Mueller can help us - that's where my hope is - and I think election reform should be a number 1 priority
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)Raine
(30,540 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)Over and over and over again.
Then theyll say that they and their buddies NOT resigning shows they arent guilty.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)
the party from the ground up.
It seems unable to stand up straight any more.
DownriverDem
(6,205 posts)Well at least the gov - Dayton - is a Dem and will appoint a Dem that votes our way. With Franken and Conyers out, the Dems will be able to hit the repubs hard on their family values crap with trump in the White House and Roy Moore in the Senate.
harun
(11,348 posts)Those as in the other Dem Senators.
Rene
(1,183 posts)karin_sj
(805 posts)It's infuriating that the Democrats constantly fall for republican dirty tricks and hypocritical finger pointing without any kind of pushback or even a full investigation of the facts. I'm all for taking the high road but not when it's based on unproven (or possibly false or over exaggerated) allegations.
I'm so sick of republicans letting their own get away with the most horrendous crimes and misbehavior just to stay in power, while the Democrats cave immediatelyeven before they know for sure exactly what happened.
I emailed Senator Franken's office and encouraged him to stay in the Senate, where he is desperately needed as a strong, intelligent, and articulate voice for us. He should not be pushed out without getting all the facts. Nobody should be pushed out over anonymous, unverified accusations. If he's willing to be investigated, they need to do it and shut up about him resigning! Yes, I'm pissed!
SansACause
(520 posts)That's next, right? He's also being smeared by the right wing.