I believe the women that have accused Al Franken of sexual misconduct, even if some are anonymous.

[LexVegas]

I also stand with the Democratic Senators, many of whom are women, in calling on Senator Franken to step down. I have always liked Franken, from way before he entered politics, but this kind of behavior is not acceptable from anyone.

[Yavin4]

1. How do you know that they even exist?

Please detail that for me.

[FarPoint]

26. Excellent point...

There had been No Due Process...just layman style character assination and Trial by Media.

[bathroommonkey76]

67. And Twitter

Trial by Twitter happens on a daily basis.

[Ms. Toad]

27. How did we know that "Deep Throat" existed?

These women are known to the reporters, just as most anonymous sources are. Some of them even spoke with reporters contemporaneously, and most told friends or relatives contemporaneously.

[Yavin4]

61. Because Mark Felt came forward and Bob Woodward confirmed him. n/t

[Demit]

66. Because over time, his leads checked out.

Woodward and Bernstein did extensive legwork. They didn't just say Okay! So you told your friend about this 10 years ago, that's good enough for us and our editors! No need for any corroborating evidence. We'll just go to print with your allegations!

[Demsrule86]

72. It was not until Nixon release the tapes and John Dean testified...that Nixon was out...he got

due process but Franken didn't...and there is no criminality in the false charges against Franken...Tweeden works for Hannity pal and is a birther.

[OliverQ]

2. I don't believe all of them, and anonymous accusers with zero evidence is

not credible. Sounds like a Republican tactic to destroy the Democrats, and it's working.

Evil wins again.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. I do not believe anonymous accusers.

Not when people like James O'Keefe are conducting ratfcking campaigns against Democrats.

[Tipperary]

4. I believe none of them. I think this is a shame that he is being railroaded into resigning.

But Roy Moore carries merrily on.

[hlthe2b]

5. We may well have been hoisted on our own "best intentions/zero tolerance/no distinctions" petard.

How are some here going to feel IF (IF) it later comes out that this was all a RW set-up?

IF, IF, IF that were the case, we just lost one of the most valuable Senators we had fighting for us--almost totally based on anonymous accusations and, in the case of the identified USO accuser, a very despicable photo that only DEPICTS groping for the camera and not actual touching and what she describes as inappropriate kissing behavior in the context of "rehearsing" for a skit. Honestly, I fear our "best intentions" are being used against us in the ultimate manipulation. Had an ethics investigation gone through, IF, IF, IF there was any coordinated effort to target Franken beyond actual misdeeds, it might have come to light.

I am very very upset by this. Once again, and as much as this issue needs to be addressed seriously, immediately, and consistently when there is validated evidence of serious misconduct, we may well have been hoisted on our own "best intentions/zero tolerance/no distinctions" petard. The feminist in me is very very very disturbed by that and the inevitable backlash that will incite.

[tenderfoot]

6. I believe the women that work with him that wholeheartedly support him

eom

[Ms. Toad]

29. Are you seriously suggesting that people who commit sexual abuse

are incapable of refraining from sexually abusing every woman they come in contact with?

I believe both. I have a lot of respect for Franken's work in the senate. I believe he has many warm and respectful relationships with women - who likely have never encountered any inappropriate behavior from him.

I also largely believe that there are women who with whom he has acted inappropriately.

The two are not mutually inconsistent.

That said, I do NOT believe he should resign. He has acknowledged inappropriate behavior and crossing the line with some women, apologized for it, and sincerely seems to be taken aback by women's reaction to some of his physical interactions with them - and to be open to learning and moving forward. I can't even imagine Moore, Trump, etc. even thinking mouthing those words - let alone meaning them - for much more serious offenses.

[treestar]

51. They did not suggest that at all!

Should it count for nothing that most women who worked with him don't believe it?

[BannonsLiver]

7. I'm sure that'll work well for us.

[treestar]

8. But Moore won't resign

[LexVegas]

10. That doesn't let Franken off the hook.

[treestar]

43. So we deserve this double standard?

Why?

And Franken's accusers are not as believable. And what they accuse him of is not as serious.

[CrispyQ]

9. So we're going to go from never believing the victims to always believing the victims?

[Madam Mossfern]

13. Ah, you mean "victims"

Being a victim myself I feel that I have complete license to post like this.

[CrispyQ]

75. I think if one is going to ruin a person's career and reputation with their allegations,

those claims should be made publicly, not anonymously.

[treestar]

44. Yes! I don't like at all the idea we HAVE to believe every case

Like there are no evil right-wing women who would lie. We know they will say or do anything to win or to damage our side.

That is not justice any more than refusing to believe anyone.

[BannonsLiver]

11. I dont believe any of them.

[fallout87]

14. Well, many do. Including Gillibrand and Harris.

[BannonsLiver]

16. I couldnt care less what people who lie down like lambs think.

[fallout87]

17. Do you think they are just posturing for a 2020 run? Sounds possible.

Gillibrand first calls for his resignation, then Harris rushes in to agree...

[BannonsLiver]

18. If youre in the senate youre ambitious.

We can all draw our own conclusions from there.

[Meowmee]

28. She has lost my

vote for anything. I just emailed to let her know. Now I’m beginning to wonder if some of the “moles” are in the dem party not just among the cons.

[Demit]

62. I definitely think there are some agendas operating here.

The rush to judgment just doesn't make sense otherwise.

[NCTraveler]

59. Empty sloganeering. Nt

[treestar]

45. Then she should call for Moore not to win either

His accusations are more believable and more serious.

[Meowmee]

12. I dont

He should not resign.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

15. Here we go again

The poor may lose their healthcare. Women may lose their right to choose. And finally the elderly will have to deal with cuts in Medicare and Social Security. But limousine liberals like Kristin Gillabrand can congratulate themselves for taking a principled stance.

[califootman]

25. And the worst part is...

...those who are saying Franken should step down are NOT taking a principled stance. Railroading is not principled.

If you believe the women accusing Sen. Franken, then you believe they have valid allegations that should be investigated by the Senate Ethics Committee. He should get a fair hearing. That is following the principles of our system of justice.

Once that is complete we can determine whether it is appropriate for Franken to resign or perhaps face some lesser consequence based on the gravity of any wrongdoing on his part.

[treestar]

49. It is not even principled, because it is mere accusation

If it was credible that Al had done anything wrong, it would be true. But they are letting anyone say anything and ruin someone while at the same time it does not apply to Republicans!

[HopeAgain]

57. Limousine liberals?

Is that code for "white"? Or should a class of people be excluded from liberal politics?

[brush]

58. It's an old, prejorative term from the '60s, not sure if it fits Gillibrand since she was...

a blue dog.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

60. It's the well to do who won't be hurt by Republican policies

[LAS14]

78. Totally agree! "Zero tolerance is zero common sense." (from another post) nt

[trueblue2007]

19. set up against AL

Edan Clay
🌊? @EdanClay
9h9 hours ago

Democrats: "If we call for Al Franken's resignation, Republicans will see we are serious!"
Republicans: "Well, I'll be! Roger Stone was right! They really are that stupid! Now we know how to get rid of all of them."

[Kimchijeon]

23. Yep They really are that stupid... look forward to more of the same in the future

Really is a shame.

[VOX]

20. Yes, lets crucify Franken while #45 turns America 100% facist.

Where women will have NO rights whatsoever. None.

Where a private security force will track dissent.

Where fundamentalist religion is allowed to run riot over every social issue.

Where what is true is declared officially false. And vice versa.

Where economic safety nets no longer exist.

Where war is peace, freedom is slavery, and free elections are a distant memory.

But first, by all means, let’s get Franken’s scalp! That’ll fix the entire mess! The high road will win the day! Purity!

[Meowmee]

30. There will be more attacks

And what will they do then.

[wisteria]

32. The party has played into the Republicans hands,

and with a zero tolerance policy, all of those accused will have to resign. Oh, there will be more, and they will be the smart ones who challenge Trump, and his friends.

[Meowmee]

35. What is wrong

Last edited Thu Dec 7, 2017, 06:06 PM - Edit history (1)

With these idiots? We are talking about losing our freedom, our rights, our lives and this is what they’re worried about? Lunacy. Some of them I’m suspecting of being under Russian influence themselves now.

[Kimchijeon]

21. Now I suppose comes the tidal waves of "we must all step in line"

Hellooooo Fascism! No thanks.

[Kirk Lover]

22. I believe that both 'people' can exist....the guy who maybe takes a few liberties while

taking pictures w/ folks (that's creepy I'm not excusing that) and the guy that is a decent person and has done some really great things. Both can be true. Savannah Guthrie was correct. It's difficult reconciling your like/love for a person and the fact that they have behaved badly.

I'm not ready to discount every accuser but I sure as fuck don't believe every single one and the waist squeezer is ridiculous. That is why it is important for an investigation to be conducted.

[tinrobot]

24. Due process. Let them come forward at a Senate ethics investigation.

If they do, I would be inclined to believe them as well.

[uponit7771]

37. +1

[Lee-Lee]

39. Read the rules for an ethics investigation- it wont cover most of these

A Senate ethics investigation only will cover actions while someone was in the Senate.

And your not going to ever get them to change that- none of them want the ethics committee with the power to look over their lives before they were in the Senate.

[NCTraveler]

42. Everyone deserves the right to due process.

Everyone is also judged by the court of public opinion.

The two are not connectable and I’m watching a bunch of people act like they don’t understand and that basic concept.

Your thought process just cleared a ton of really sick people who have used their money or influence to avoid due process.

[wisteria]

31. I dont.

So what do you want ? Applause?

[110liberal]

33. Franken

The Democratic Party will suffer at the polls for turning their backs on a good man without due process. We are leaderless. We need another party. Please tell me the names of the women that have accused Franken. Please don't name Tweenten who grabbed the guitar player ass on stage at a uso show. We should be a party that believes in due process. How do you defend yourself against anonymous sources?

[Demsrule86]

48. Don't be ridiculous...we have to vote for Democrats to save our country. What we can do is pressure

the Democrats party for new leaders. But we must vote for and donate to Democrats...or we the voters hand the GOP a victory.

[carterbob251]

70. And it begins at the local level...

[Demsrule86]

71. I agree.

[defacto7]

34. Believing is a personal choice based on feelings.

But to know is to have the substance of facts in hand. To have faith is to believe something devoid of fact. To trust is to have the wisdom to differentiate between what is knowledge and what is belief and standing firm on the side of knowledge.

Do you trust anonynous accusers? In a logical world you can't. That would be a simple logical fallacy.

So you believe (feel), you have faith (no hands on knowlege), but you can neither know nor trust. To me that doesn't leave much to go on.

[octoberlib]

36. Good for you. I dont believe Republican and

anonymous accusers when politics is involved. Especially with Roger Stone hovering around it all.

[oberliner]

38. Thanks for posting this

I can't believe the spin I am reading here from the majority of posters.

[NCTraveler]

40. I fully agree at this point and am glad the party is showing a spine.

They are leading the way under tough circumstances.

[Adrahil]

41. Even "I'm entitled to it! I'm an entertainer!"?

C'mon... no way he said that.

[Demsrule86]

46. I don't. And when the GOP refuses to seat the 'new' Senator before the tax cut vote or at all...

because it could be a " let the voters of Minnesota decide" situation with these GOP bastards...and they leave the seat vacant...I think that many will realize they have been played in a cynical way...and just wait for the new attacks on Democrat elected because they are coming...if you won't say who you are ...then you have not come 'forward'...anonymous attacks are bullshit. We will probably have a vacant seat until after the tax vote and maybe until the next election...nice going Dems. Helping the GOP to destroy us.


"Both houses of the United States Congress have refused to seat new members based on Article I, Section 5 of the United States Constitution which states that, "Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members, and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business; but a ...
People also ask"

[treestar]

47. So you believe anything anyone says?

[Demsrule86]

50. I object to unproven allegations being used to destroy entire careers...and if you look at who is

being destroyed ...it is mostly people the GOP dislikes.

[delisen]

52. What kind of behavior? what are the alternatives to resigning

Do you think the Democrats should call upon Trump and any Republicans to resign?

[ollie10]

56. No, we don't want to hurt the feelings of the Republicans

we only eat our own.

[delisen]

74. An aspect of the new political tribalism

I keep reading about;

[Vinca]

53. I stand for due process over mob rule.

[Motownman78]

54. I used to believe all women

but then came along the Duke Lacrosse team case. Even though it was shown later the woman was lying, those men are forever stigmatized.

[ollie10]

55. Are these anonymous "victims" even women?

If you are anonymous....you could be a male republican who never set foot in Washington or Minnesota!

Hell, prove to me that it is not Donald Trump himself as one of the victims!!!!

I won't hold my breath, because you can't.

Anonymous is not credible.

[DFW]

63. If they are anonymous, how do we know they are even women?

James O'Keefe could be five different anonymous women, too.

I believe some people have an agenda with Al Franken that has nothing to do with sexual harassment and everything to do with silencing one of our most eloquent voices in the Senate.

[YessirAtsaFact]

64. I believe its idiotic to blindly believe anyone

As fishy as the initial accusation was, why not wait for an investigation?

As it is Franken is being lynched.

[carterbob251]

65. Of all the allegations...

How many has he fessed up to, if any? Just curious.

[Demit]

68. How do you "fess up" to anonymous allegations from ten years ago?

Would you?

He acknowledged that the gag photo with Leeann Tweeden was in poor taste & he apologized for it. He acknowledged that apparently some women didn't like being touched while posing for a fan photo with him, and he regretted not knowing that.

He is being put in an impossible position. The situation reminds me of when an innocent person is convicted of a crime, but is told that if he just shows remorse he might get a lighter sentence. The person is being pressured to "fess up" to something they didn't do.

[carterbob251]

69. Well, that's what I was asking...

So it sounds like none then.

To answer your question, yea,I absolutely would if they were true.

[Demit]

73. "If" being the operative word.

But no, it wasn't none.

He acknowledged that the kiss with Tweeden at the USO show happened but he demurred from her description of it.

He vehemently denied trying to kiss the anonymous woman & saying "It's my right as an entertainer."

As for the others, he was probably expecting that people could draw their own conclusions about what happens when you pose for pictures, that you stand close & sometimes put your arm around each other, and that it isn't automatically sexual. He probably never expected that a woman would interpret an arm around the waist as "copping a feel." He probably assumed people would laugh at that as absurd.

He probably never expected to be condemned as a pervert for actions that could have been just as rightly interpreted as innocent. The reaction by his fellow Democrats is what is shameful about this episode. No good can come from it.

[still_one]

76. Some of those Senators asking for Franken to resign without affording him an ethics hearing, were

around when Bill Clinton was accused by several women of sexual assault, including at least one who accused Bill Clinton of attempted rape, and not one of those Senators called for Bill Clinton's resignation.

If they use the excuse that the "times have changed", it does't cut it, especially based on the seriousness of the accusations by some of Bill Clinton's accusers.

I suspect they won't be able to supply an adequate reason for the difference without sounding like hypocrites

[LAS14]

77. Sure, the behavior's not acceptable. This means he loses his job and...

... we lose, possibly, another Democratic seat in congress? A really good one? Since when does unacceptable behavior demand those kind of consequences. As someone said in another post, "Zero tolerance means zero common sense."

[Ferrets are Cool]

79. I dont get your way of thinking. These accusations could be from

anyone, anywhere....even Russia. Think about that for a moment. A mans career and reputation is being ruined by anonymous accusations and a USO show performer who was doing the same thing in a skit.

[delisen]

80. Why sacrifice the Democratic principle of Due Process enshrined

in our Constitution.

Why sacrifice the Democratic principle that votes of citizens should count.

The senate is not a private club. It has tools for dealing with behavioral issues regarding members. The call of the mob demanding resignation prevents us from knowing and makes opaque what should be transparent.

I do not believe in the rule of the mob whether the mob is composed of a a group of Republican Congressional aides shutting down a recount in election 2000; a group of Democratic senators overruling the will of the people by forcing an elected senator out of Congress without due process in 2017, or a street mob terrorizing citizens into abandoning their right to assemble.

Authoritarianism has been on the rise since 2000 and too many Democrats in the Senate have failed to acknowledge it. All we have to do, they think, is just get the people fired up, peel off a few more vets, get back into the power position, and business as usual. It hasn't worked.

It is time to depart from that too-well trodden path and confront. If we have a leadership vacuum in the Senate, we must look to ourselves and elsewhere.