Wed Dec 6, 2017, 02:00 PM

LexVegas (5,394 posts)

I believe the women that have accused Al Franken of sexual misconduct, even if some are anonymous.

I also stand with the Democratic Senators, many of whom are women, in calling on Senator Franken to step down. I have always liked Franken, from way before he entered politics, but this kind of behavior is not acceptable from anyone.

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80 replies	Author	Time	Post
I believe the women that have accused Al Franken of sexual misconduct, even if some are anonymous. (Original post)	LexVegas	Dec 2017	OP
How do you know that they even exist?	Yavin4	Dec 2017	#1
Excellent point...	FarPoint	Dec 2017	#26
And Twitter	bathroommonkey76	Dec 2017	#67
How did we know that "Deep Throat" existed?	Ms. Toad	Dec 2017	#27
Because Mark Felt came forward and Bob Woodward confirmed him. n/t	Yavin4	Dec 2017	#61
Because over time, his leads checked out.	Demit	Dec 2017	#66
It was not until Nixon release the tapes and John Dean testified...that Nixon was out...he got	Demsrule86	Dec 2017	#72
I don't believe all of them, and anonymous accusers with zero evidence is	OliverQ	Dec 2017	#2
I do not believe anonymous accusers.	The Velveteen Ocelot	Dec 2017	#3
I believe none of them. I think this is a shame that he is being railroaded into resigning.	Tipperary	Dec 2017	#4
We may well have been hoisted on our own "best intentions/zero tolerance/no distinctions" petard.	hlthe2b	Dec 2017	#5
I believe the women that work with him that wholeheartedly support him	tenderfoot	Dec 2017	#6
Are you seriously suggesting that people who commit sexual abuse	Ms. Toad	Dec 2017	#29
They did not suggest that at all!	treestar	Dec 2017	#51
I'm sure that'll work well for us.	BannonsLiver	Dec 2017	#7
But Moore won't resign	treestar	Dec 2017	#8
That doesn't let Franken off the hook.	LexVegas	Dec 2017	#10
So we deserve this double standard?	treestar	Dec 2017	#43
So we're going to go from never believing the victims to always believing the victims?	CrispyQ	Dec 2017	#9
Ah, you mean "victims"	Madam Mossfern	Dec 2017	#13
I think if one is going to ruin a person's career and reputation with their allegations,	CrispyQ	Dec 2017	#75
Yes! I don't like at all the idea we HAVE to believe every case	treestar	Dec 2017	#44
I dont believe any of them.	BannonsLiver	Dec 2017	#11
Well, many do. Including Gillibrand and Harris.	fallout87	Dec 2017	#14
I couldnt care less what people who lie down like lambs think.	BannonsLiver	Dec 2017	#16
Do you think they are just posturing for a 2020 run? Sounds possible.	fallout87	Dec 2017	#17
If youre in the senate youre ambitious.	BannonsLiver	Dec 2017	#18
She has lost my	Meowmee	Dec 2017	#28
I definitely think there are some agendas operating here.	Demit	Dec 2017	#62
Empty sloganeering. Nt	NCTraveler	Dec 2017	#59
Then she should call for Moore not to win either	treestar	Dec 2017	#45
I dont	Meowmee	Dec 2017	#12
Here we go again	Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin	Dec 2017	#15
And the worst part is...	califootman	Dec 2017	#25
It is not even principled, because it is mere accusation	treestar	Dec 2017	#49
Limousine liberals?	HopeAgain	Dec 2017	#57
It's an old, prejorative term from the '60s, not sure if it fits Gillibrand since she was...	brush	Dec 2017	#58
It's the well to do who won't be hurt by Republican policies	Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin	Dec 2017	#60
Totally agree! "Zero tolerance is zero common sense." (from another post) nt	LAS14	Dec 2017	#78
set up against AL	trueblue2007	Dec 2017	#19
Yep They really are that stupid... look forward to more of the same in the future	Kimchijeon	Dec 2017	#23
Yes, lets crucify Franken while #45 turns America 100% facist.	VOX	Dec 2017	#20
There will be more attacks	Meowmee	Dec 2017	#30
The party has played into the Republicans hands,	wisteria	Dec 2017	#32
What is wrong	Meowmee	Dec 2017	#35
Now I suppose comes the tidal waves of "we must all step in line"	Kimchijeon	Dec 2017	#21
I believe that both 'people' can exist....the guy who maybe takes a few liberties while	Kirk Lover	Dec 2017	#22
Due process. Let them come forward at a Senate ethics investigation.	tinrobot	Dec 2017	#24
+1	uponit7771	Dec 2017	#37
Read the rules for an ethics investigation- it wont cover most of these	Lee-Lee	Dec 2017	#39
Everyone deserves the right to due process.	NCTraveler	Dec 2017	#42
I dont.	wisteria	Dec 2017	#31
Franken	110liberal	Dec 2017	#33
Don't be ridiculous...we have to vote for Democrats to save our country. What we can do is pressure	Demsrule86	Dec 2017	#48
And it begins at the local level...	carterbob251	Dec 2017	#70
I agree.	Demsrule86	Dec 2017	#71
Believing is a personal choice based on feelings.	defacto7	Dec 2017	#34
Good for you. I dont believe Republican and	octoberlib	Dec 2017	#36
Thanks for posting this	oberliner	Dec 2017	#38
I fully agree at this point and am glad the party is showing a spine.	NCTraveler	Dec 2017	#40
Even "I'm entitled to it! I'm an entertainer!"?	Adrahil	Dec 2017	#41
I don't. And when the GOP refuses to seat the 'new' Senator before the tax cut vote or at all...	Demsrule86	Dec 2017	#46
So you believe anything anyone says?	treestar	Dec 2017	#47
I object to unproven allegations being used to destroy entire careers...and if you look at who is	Demsrule86	Dec 2017	#50
What kind of behavior? what are the alternatives to resigning	delisen	Dec 2017	#52
No, we don't want to hurt the feelings of the Republicans	ollie10	Dec 2017	#56
An aspect of the new political tribalism	delisen	Dec 2017	#74
I stand for due process over mob rule.	Vinca	Dec 2017	#53
I used to believe all women	Motownman78	Dec 2017	#54
Are these anonymous "victims" even women?	ollie10	Dec 2017	#55
If they are anonymous, how do we know they are even women?	DFW	Dec 2017	#63
I believe its idiotic to blindly believe anyone	YessirAtsaFact	Dec 2017	#64
Of all the allegations...	carterbob251	Dec 2017	#65
How do you "fess up" to anonymous allegations from ten years ago?	Demit	Dec 2017	#68
Well, that's what I was asking...	carterbob251	Dec 2017	#69
"If" being the operative word.	Demit	Dec 2017	#73
Some of those Senators asking for Franken to resign without affording him an ethics hearing, were	still_one	Dec 2017	#76
Sure, the behavior's not acceptable. This means he loses his job and...	LAS14	Dec 2017	#77
I dont get your way of thinking. These accusations could be from	Ferrets are Cool	Dec 2017	#79
Why sacrifice the Democratic principle of Due Process enshrined	delisen	Dec 2017	#80

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 02:01 PM

Yavin4 (34,054 posts)

1. How do you know that they even exist?

Please detail that for me.

Reply to this post

Response to Yavin4 (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:58 AM

FarPoint (11,496 posts)

26. Excellent point...

There had been No Due Process...just layman style character assination and Trial by Media.

Reply to this post

Response to FarPoint (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:06 AM

bathroommonkey76 (3,827 posts)

67. And Twitter

Trial by Twitter happens on a daily basis.

Reply to this post

Response to Yavin4 (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 02:04 AM

Ms. Toad (31,356 posts)

27. How did we know that "Deep Throat" existed?

These women are known to the reporters, just as most anonymous sources are. Some of them even spoke with reporters contemporaneously, and most told friends or relatives contemporaneously.

Reply to this post

Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:56 AM

Yavin4 (34,054 posts)

61. Because Mark Felt came forward and Bob Woodward confirmed him. n/t

Reply to this post

Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:03 AM

Demit (11,238 posts)

66. Because over time, his leads checked out.

Woodward and Bernstein did extensive legwork. They didn't just say Okay! So you told your friend about this 10 years ago, that's good enough for us and our editors! No need for any corroborating evidence. We'll just go to print with your allegations!

Reply to this post

Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:19 AM

Demsrule86 (65,526 posts)

72. It was not until Nixon release the tapes and John Dean testified...that Nixon was out...he got

due process but Franken didn't...and there is no criminality in the false charges against Franken...Tweeden works for Hannity pal and is a birther.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 02:01 PM

OliverQ (3,363 posts)

2. I don't believe all of them, and anonymous accusers with zero evidence is

not credible. Sounds like a Republican tactic to destroy the Democrats, and it's working.

Evil wins again.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 02:01 PM

The Velveteen Ocelot (106,914 posts)

3. I do not believe anonymous accusers.

Not when people like James O'Keefe are conducting ratfcking campaigns against Democrats.

Reply to this post

Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 02:02 PM

Tipperary (6,930 posts)

4. I believe none of them. I think this is a shame that he is being railroaded into resigning.

But Roy Moore carries merrily on.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 02:06 PM

hlthe2b (96,629 posts)

5. We may well have been hoisted on our own "best intentions/zero tolerance/no distinctions" petard.

How are some here going to feel IF (IF) it later comes out that this was all a RW set-up?

IF, IF, IF that were the case, we just lost one of the most valuable Senators we had fighting for us--almost totally based on anonymous accusations and, in the case of the identified USO accuser, a very despicable photo that only DEPICTS groping for the camera and not actual touching and what she describes as inappropriate kissing behavior in the context of "rehearsing" for a skit. Honestly, I fear our "best intentions" are being used against us in the ultimate manipulation. Had an ethics investigation gone through, IF, IF, IF there was any coordinated effort to target Franken beyond actual misdeeds, it might have come to light.

I am very very upset by this. Once again, and as much as this issue needs to be addressed seriously, immediately, and consistently when there is validated evidence of serious misconduct, we may well have been hoisted on our own "best intentions/zero tolerance/no distinctions" petard. The feminist in me is very very very disturbed by that and the inevitable backlash that will incite.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 02:07 PM

tenderfoot (8,073 posts)

6. I believe the women that work with him that wholeheartedly support him

eom

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Response to tenderfoot (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 02:12 AM

Ms. Toad (31,356 posts)

29. Are you seriously suggesting that people who commit sexual abuse

are incapable of refraining from sexually abusing every woman they come in contact with?

I believe both. I have a lot of respect for Franken's work in the senate. I believe he has many warm and respectful relationships with women - who likely have never encountered any inappropriate behavior from him.

I also largely believe that there are women who with whom he has acted inappropriately.

The two are not mutually inconsistent.

That said, I do NOT believe he should resign. He has acknowledged inappropriate behavior and crossing the line with some women, apologized for it, and sincerely seems to be taken aback by women's reaction to some of his physical interactions with them - and to be open to learning and moving forward. I can't even imagine Moore, Trump, etc. even thinking mouthing those words - let alone meaning them - for much more serious offenses.

Reply to this post

Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:59 AM

treestar (81,167 posts)

51. They did not suggest that at all!

Should it count for nothing that most women who worked with him don't believe it?

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 02:07 PM

BannonsLiver (14,885 posts)

7. I'm sure that'll work well for us.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 02:07 PM

treestar (81,167 posts)

8. But Moore won't resign

Reply to this post

Response to treestar (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:47 AM

LexVegas (5,394 posts)

10. That doesn't let Franken off the hook.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:46 AM

treestar (81,167 posts)

43. So we deserve this double standard?

Why?

And Franken's accusers are not as believable. And what they accuse him of is not as serious.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Wed Dec 6, 2017, 02:12 PM

CrispyQ (33,865 posts)

9. So we're going to go from never believing the victims to always believing the victims?

Reply to this post

Response to CrispyQ (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:58 AM

Madam Mossfern (2,340 posts)

13. Ah, you mean "victims"

Being a victim myself I feel that I have complete license to post like this.

Reply to this post

Response to Madam Mossfern (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:00 AM

CrispyQ (33,865 posts)

75. I think if one is going to ruin a person's career and reputation with their allegations,

those claims should be made publicly, not anonymously.

Reply to this post

Response to CrispyQ (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:47 AM

treestar (81,167 posts)

44. Yes! I don't like at all the idea we HAVE to believe every case

Like there are no evil right-wing women who would lie. We know they will say or do anything to win or to damage our side.

That is not justice any more than refusing to believe anyone.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:53 AM

BannonsLiver (14,885 posts)

11. I dont believe any of them.

Reply to this post

Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:01 AM

fallout87 (819 posts)

14. Well, many do. Including Gillibrand and Harris.

Reply to this post

Response to fallout87 (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:11 AM

BannonsLiver (14,885 posts)

16. I couldnt care less what people who lie down like lambs think.

Reply to this post

Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:13 AM

fallout87 (819 posts)

17. Do you think they are just posturing for a 2020 run? Sounds possible.

Gillibrand first calls for his resignation, then Harris rushes in to agree...

Reply to this post

Response to fallout87 (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:20 AM

BannonsLiver (14,885 posts)

18. If youre in the senate youre ambitious.

We can all draw our own conclusions from there.

Reply to this post

Response to fallout87 (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 02:11 AM

Meowmee (4,945 posts)

28. She has lost my

vote for anything. I just emailed to let her know. Now I’m beginning to wonder if some of the “moles” are in the dem party not just among the cons.

Reply to this post

Response to fallout87 (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:57 AM

Demit (11,238 posts)

62. I definitely think there are some agendas operating here.

The rush to judgment just doesn't make sense otherwise.

Reply to this post

Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:34 AM

NCTraveler (30,481 posts)

59. Empty sloganeering. Nt

Reply to this post

Response to fallout87 (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:48 AM

treestar (81,167 posts)

45. Then she should call for Moore not to win either

His accusations are more believable and more serious.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:55 AM

Meowmee (4,945 posts)

12. I dont

He should not resign.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:03 AM

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (97,083 posts)

15. Here we go again

The poor may lose their healthcare. Women may lose their right to choose. And finally the elderly will have to deal with cuts in Medicare and Social Security. But limousine liberals like Kristin Gillabrand can congratulate themselves for taking a principled stance.

Reply to this post

Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:56 AM

califootman (120 posts)

25. And the worst part is...

...those who are saying Franken should step down are NOT taking a principled stance. Railroading is not principled.

If you believe the women accusing Sen. Franken, then you believe they have valid allegations that should be investigated by the Senate Ethics Committee. He should get a fair hearing. That is following the principles of our system of justice.

Once that is complete we can determine whether it is appropriate for Franken to resign or perhaps face some lesser consequence based on the gravity of any wrongdoing on his part.

Reply to this post

Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:58 AM

treestar (81,167 posts)

49. It is not even principled, because it is mere accusation

If it was credible that Al had done anything wrong, it would be true. But they are letting anyone say anything and ruin someone while at the same time it does not apply to Republicans!

Reply to this post

Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:22 AM

HopeAgain (4,407 posts)

57. Limousine liberals?

Is that code for "white"? Or should a class of people be excluded from liberal politics?

Reply to this post

Response to HopeAgain (Reply #57)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:33 AM

brush (46,898 posts)

58. It's an old, prejorative term from the '60s, not sure if it fits Gillibrand since she was...

a blue dog.

Reply to this post

Response to HopeAgain (Reply #57)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:55 AM

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (97,083 posts)

60. It's the well to do who won't be hurt by Republican policies

Reply to this post

Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:15 AM

LAS14 (13,060 posts)

78. Totally agree! "Zero tolerance is zero common sense." (from another post) nt

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:24 AM

trueblue2007 (16,342 posts)

19. set up against AL

Edan Clay
🌊‏ @EdanClay
9h9 hours ago

Democrats: "If we call for Al Franken's resignation, Republicans will see we are serious!"
Republicans: "Well, I'll be! Roger Stone was right! They really are that stupid! Now we know how to get rid of all of them."

Reply to this post

Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:30 AM

Kimchijeon (1,606 posts)

23. Yep They really are that stupid... look forward to more of the same in the future

Really is a shame.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:27 AM

VOX (22,976 posts)

20. Yes, lets crucify Franken while #45 turns America 100% facist.

Where women will have NO rights whatsoever. None.

Where a private security force will track dissent.

Where fundamentalist religion is allowed to run riot over every social issue.

Where what is true is declared officially false. And vice versa.

Where economic safety nets no longer exist.

Where war is peace, freedom is slavery, and free elections are a distant memory.

But first, by all means, let’s get Franken’s scalp! That’ll fix the entire mess! The high road will win the day! Purity!

Reply to this post

Response to VOX (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 02:14 AM

Meowmee (4,945 posts)

30. There will be more attacks

And what will they do then.

Reply to this post

Response to Meowmee (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 02:36 AM

wisteria (19,581 posts)

32. The party has played into the Republicans hands,

and with a zero tolerance policy, all of those accused will have to resign. Oh, there will be more, and they will be the smart ones who challenge Trump, and his friends.

Reply to this post

Response to wisteria (Reply #32)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 05:56 AM

Meowmee (4,945 posts)

35. What is wrong

Last edited Thu Dec 7, 2017, 06:06 PM - Edit history (1)

With these idiots? We are talking about losing our freedom, our rights, our lives and this is what they’re worried about? Lunacy. Some of them I’m suspecting of being under Russian influence themselves now.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:27 AM

Kimchijeon (1,606 posts)

21. Now I suppose comes the tidal waves of "we must all step in line"

Hellooooo Fascism! No thanks.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:28 AM

Kirk Lover (3,608 posts)

22. I believe that both 'people' can exist....the guy who maybe takes a few liberties while

taking pictures w/ folks (that's creepy I'm not excusing that) and the guy that is a decent person and has done some really great things. Both can be true. Savannah Guthrie was correct. It's difficult reconciling your like/love for a person and the fact that they have behaved badly.

I'm not ready to discount every accuser but I sure as fuck don't believe every single one and the waist squeezer is ridiculous. That is why it is important for an investigation to be conducted.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:49 AM

tinrobot (10,022 posts)

24. Due process. Let them come forward at a Senate ethics investigation.

If they do, I would be inclined to believe them as well.

Reply to this post

Response to tinrobot (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 06:37 AM

uponit7771 (88,616 posts)

37. +1

Reply to this post

Response to tinrobot (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:33 AM

Lee-Lee (6,324 posts)

39. Read the rules for an ethics investigation- it wont cover most of these

A Senate ethics investigation only will cover actions while someone was in the Senate.

And your not going to ever get them to change that- none of them want the ethics committee with the power to look over their lives before they were in the Senate.

Reply to this post

Response to tinrobot (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:41 AM

NCTraveler (30,481 posts)

42. Everyone deserves the right to due process.

Everyone is also judged by the court of public opinion.

The two are not connectable and I’m watching a bunch of people act like they don’t understand and that basic concept.

Your thought process just cleared a ton of really sick people who have used their money or influence to avoid due process.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 02:31 AM

wisteria (19,581 posts)

31. I dont.

So what do you want ? Applause?

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 02:37 AM

110liberal (21 posts)

33. Franken

The Democratic Party will suffer at the polls for turning their backs on a good man without due process. We are leaderless. We need another party. Please tell me the names of the women that have accused Franken. Please don't name Tweenten who grabbed the guitar player ass on stage at a uso show. We should be a party that believes in due process. How do you defend yourself against anonymous sources?

Reply to this post

Response to 110liberal (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:58 AM

Demsrule86 (65,526 posts)

48. Don't be ridiculous...we have to vote for Democrats to save our country. What we can do is pressure

the Democrats party for new leaders. But we must vote for and donate to Democrats...or we the voters hand the GOP a victory.

Reply to this post

Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #48)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:52 AM

carterbob251 (33 posts)

70. And it begins at the local level...

Reply to this post

Response to carterbob251 (Reply #70)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:17 AM

Demsrule86 (65,526 posts)

71. I agree.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 02:47 AM

defacto7 (13,485 posts)

34. Believing is a personal choice based on feelings.

But to know is to have the substance of facts in hand. To have faith is to believe something devoid of fact. To trust is to have the wisdom to differentiate between what is knowledge and what is belief and standing firm on the side of knowledge.

Do you trust anonynous accusers? In a logical world you can't. That would be a simple logical fallacy.

So you believe (feel), you have faith (no hands on knowlege), but you can neither know nor trust. To me that doesn't leave much to go on.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 06:03 AM

octoberlib (14,956 posts)

36. Good for you. I dont believe Republican and

anonymous accusers when politics is involved. Especially with Roger Stone hovering around it all.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:28 AM

oberliner (58,724 posts)

38. Thanks for posting this

I can't believe the spin I am reading here from the majority of posters.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:36 AM

NCTraveler (30,481 posts)

40. I fully agree at this point and am glad the party is showing a spine.

They are leading the way under tough circumstances.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:40 AM

Adrahil (13,340 posts)

41. Even "I'm entitled to it! I'm an entertainer!"?

C'mon... no way he said that.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:55 AM

Demsrule86 (65,526 posts)

46. I don't. And when the GOP refuses to seat the 'new' Senator before the tax cut vote or at all...

because it could be a " let the voters of Minnesota decide" situation with these GOP bastards...and they leave the seat vacant...I think that many will realize they have been played in a cynical way...and just wait for the new attacks on Democrat elected because they are coming...if you won't say who you are ...then you have not come 'forward'...anonymous attacks are bullshit. We will probably have a vacant seat until after the tax vote and maybe until the next election...nice going Dems. Helping the GOP to destroy us.

"Both houses of the United States Congress have refused to seat new members based on Article I, Section 5 of the United States Constitution which states that, "Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members, and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business; but a ...
People also ask"

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:56 AM

treestar (81,167 posts)

47. So you believe anything anyone says?

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 07:59 AM

Demsrule86 (65,526 posts)

50. I object to unproven allegations being used to destroy entire careers...and if you look at who is

being destroyed ...it is mostly people the GOP dislikes.

Reply to this post

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:04 AM

delisen (5,819 posts)

52. What kind of behavior? what are the alternatives to resigning

Do you think the Democrats should call upon Trump and any Republicans to resign?

Reply to this post

Response to delisen (Reply #52)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:15 AM

ollie10 (2,091 posts)

56. No, we don't want to hurt the feelings of the Republicans

we only eat our own.

Reply to this post

Response to ollie10 (Reply #56)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:56 AM

delisen (5,819 posts)

74. An aspect of the new political tribalism

I keep reading about;

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:05 AM

Vinca (49,173 posts)

53. I stand for due process over mob rule.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:08 AM

Motownman78 (491 posts)

54. I used to believe all women

but then came along the Duke Lacrosse team case. Even though it was shown later the woman was lying, those men are forever stigmatized.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 08:14 AM

ollie10 (2,091 posts)

55. Are these anonymous "victims" even women?

If you are anonymous....you could be a male republican who never set foot in Washington or Minnesota!

Hell, prove to me that it is not Donald Trump himself as one of the victims!!!!

I won't hold my breath, because you can't.

Anonymous is not credible.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:00 AM

DFW (50,571 posts)

63. If they are anonymous, how do we know they are even women?

James O'Keefe could be five different anonymous women, too.

I believe some people have an agenda with Al Franken that has nothing to do with sexual harassment and everything to do with silencing one of our most eloquent voices in the Senate.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:00 AM

YessirAtsaFact (2,064 posts)

64. I believe its idiotic to blindly believe anyone

As fishy as the initial accusation was, why not wait for an investigation?

As it is Franken is being lynched.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:03 AM

carterbob251 (33 posts)

65. Of all the allegations...

How many has he fessed up to, if any? Just curious.

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Response to carterbob251 (Reply #65)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:26 AM

Demit (11,238 posts)

68. How do you "fess up" to anonymous allegations from ten years ago?

Would you?

He acknowledged that the gag photo with Leeann Tweeden was in poor taste & he apologized for it. He acknowledged that apparently some women didn't like being touched while posing for a fan photo with him, and he regretted not knowing that.

He is being put in an impossible position. The situation reminds me of when an innocent person is convicted of a crime, but is told that if he just shows remorse he might get a lighter sentence. The person is being pressured to "fess up" to something they didn't do.

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Response to Demit (Reply #68)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 09:41 AM

carterbob251 (33 posts)

69. Well, that's what I was asking...

So it sounds like none then.

To answer your question, yea,I absolutely would if they were true.

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Response to carterbob251 (Reply #69)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 10:26 AM

Demit (11,238 posts)

73. "If" being the operative word.

But no, it wasn't none.

He acknowledged that the kiss with Tweeden at the USO show happened but he demurred from her description of it.

He vehemently denied trying to kiss the anonymous woman & saying "It's my right as an entertainer."

As for the others, he was probably expecting that people could draw their own conclusions about what happens when you pose for pictures, that you stand close & sometimes put your arm around each other, and that it isn't automatically sexual. He probably never expected that a woman would interpret an arm around the waist as "copping a feel." He probably assumed people would laugh at that as absurd.

He probably never expected to be condemned as a pervert for actions that could have been just as rightly interpreted as innocent. The reaction by his fellow Democrats is what is shameful about this episode. No good can come from it.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:11 AM

still_one (87,278 posts)

76. Some of those Senators asking for Franken to resign without affording him an ethics hearing, were

around when Bill Clinton was accused by several women of sexual assault, including at least one who accused Bill Clinton of attempted rape, and not one of those Senators called for Bill Clinton's resignation.

If they use the excuse that the "times have changed", it does't cut it, especially based on the seriousness of the accusations by some of Bill Clinton's accusers.

I suspect they won't be able to supply an adequate reason for the difference without sounding like hypocrites

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:13 AM

LAS14 (13,060 posts)

77. Sure, the behavior's not acceptable. This means he loses his job and...

... we lose, possibly, another Democratic seat in congress? A really good one? Since when does unacceptable behavior demand those kind of consequences. As someone said in another post, "Zero tolerance means zero common sense."

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:25 AM

Ferrets are Cool (19,388 posts)

79. I dont get your way of thinking. These accusations could be from

anyone, anywhere....even Russia. Think about that for a moment. A mans career and reputation is being ruined by anonymous accusations and a USO show performer who was doing the same thing in a skit.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:37 AM

delisen (5,819 posts)

80. Why sacrifice the Democratic principle of Due Process enshrined

in our Constitution.

Why sacrifice the Democratic principle that votes of citizens should count.

The senate is not a private club. It has tools for dealing with behavioral issues regarding members. The call of the mob demanding resignation prevents us from knowing and makes opaque what should be transparent.

I do not believe in the rule of the mob whether the mob is composed of a a group of Republican Congressional aides shutting down a recount in election 2000; a group of Democratic senators overruling the will of the people by forcing an elected senator out of Congress without due process in 2017, or a street mob terrorizing citizens into abandoning their right to assemble.

Authoritarianism has been on the rise since 2000 and too many Democrats in the Senate have failed to acknowledge it. All we have to do, they think, is just get the people fired up, peel off a few more vets, get back into the power position, and business as usual. It hasn't worked.

It is time to depart from that too-well trodden path and confront. If we have a leadership vacuum in the Senate, we must look to ourselves and elsewhere.

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