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hedgehog

(36,286 posts)
Sat Jul 21, 2012, 04:35 PM Jul 2012

You didn't get there by yourself -

it's quite common for the children and grandchildren of immigrants to tell the story of how Grandpa came over, worked hard and made a success of himself, so why don't those ( fill-in-the-blank) get off their duffs and work hard. No mention or acknowledgment that the jobs that Grandpa worked have gone to China. No understanding that Grandpa probably had the support of a tight knit, organized community.

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You didn't get there by yourself - (Original Post) hedgehog Jul 2012 OP
In many cases, Grandpa had a union behind him that raised his living standard... rfranklin Jul 2012 #1
Grandpa had someone who took the chance to give an immigrant a job liberal N proud Jul 2012 #2
But neither were you just put there by others. Igel Jul 2012 #3
 

rfranklin

(13,200 posts)
1. In many cases, Grandpa had a union behind him that raised his living standard...
Sat Jul 21, 2012, 04:41 PM
Jul 2012

And if he didn't have a union, he benefited from what union won for their workers.


Life wasn't so great for working people before the rise of unions. And we are heading rapidly backwards to those times as the wealthy and their henchmen wring every last drop of blood from employees while giving them less and less in return.

liberal N proud

(60,332 posts)
2. Grandpa had someone who took the chance to give an immigrant a job
Sat Jul 21, 2012, 04:55 PM
Jul 2012

He didn't create the job himself, unless he started a business, then he relied on customers to buy his service or product.

Again, he didn't do it by himself.

Igel

(35,274 posts)
3. But neither were you just put there by others.
Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:03 PM
Jul 2012

It's a mix. Those who are average or below don't like being left out. It's not a happy place. So those who succeeded obviously couldn't get there by themselves, they had to have help--often precisely the kind of help that we lacked, otherwise we'd be there, as well.

On the other hand, most people had the same kind of help and didn't "get there." They got pretty much nowhere. Even some of those who lacked "that kind of help" "got there." And most of those who "got there" didn't get there just because of luck or because of favoritism or because they stole from others. Without whatever that was, everybody would be mediocre.

I have an old high school friend, B, who I'm proud to call my friend. Another one of our friends, J, resented my "success" last time I talked to him--I simply have an okay job--but hates B's success. I had all the breaks, it seems. So did B. B has an EE consulting company and makes a fair amount of cash. My job pays a bit below household median income, so it's a bit better than average. J, last I heard, was about to become homeless and moved in with B--and then vanished a few weeks later. No, B didn't kill him.

We had the same breaks. J even went, on scholarship, to a prestigious private school in Baltimore. B and I went to a bottom-rung working class public school. Our families were similar, father's had similar jobs. No divorce or abandonment. J was a failure. I'm a drudge. B was a success. B deserves the credit, since society did no more for him and gave him no advantages that J and I didn't have. In fact, J's parents obsessed over college, my father pushed for it, and when B was in 9th grade B's parents said, "No college, not over our dead bodies, not one cent." So he got a job to pay for college applications and college visits and got a scholarship. B's father died when he was in college, so the "not over my dead body" wasn't literally true.

B, in high school, shortly after the "not over my dead body" comment from his parents, went to a teacher and said, "I think the high school needs a radio station. I'm the man to build it. Help me." A year later, B and another student had space in the school, permission to be there on weekends and evenings. had gotten donations for equipment, had repaired broken equipment, got donated records, got the school board to get a non-profit license, and had the radio station on the air. You think maybe this helped him get the scholarship and admission to a good engineering school? I do. Did society help him? The school board had to be wrangled for 6 months. The principal said "no" to space and they had equipment in the teacher's room for a while. Businesses didn't rush to hand them money. Listeners didn't petition for them to start the station. One kid, one day, asked one teacher, and did something that a few thousand kids over the previous decade didn't do. The principal, proud of him when announcing the full ride to a private school, had told him to "get a life." Cause, effect. Master it and you can use it.

B made his own break. He planned around people, made sure he could execute his plan, and saw his plan through. Yeah, he used what society had around--but society didn't intend for it to be used that way, and it wasn't like others were proposing the same idea. But because of that, he was able to help J when J was a failure--through no obvious fault of society's--and also help his loony mother and his brothers when they needed it. J resented it. I don't. He did good, and while he didn't do it entirely on his own, he got no more help than either J or I got.

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