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Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:25 PM

Here's another thing that bothers me about Franken's assassination: the photo

Everyone (especially the right wing) pretends it is evidence of him groping Tweeden. Even though it clearly doesn't show that.

Ok, people say. Well, Al posed for the photograph and was acting like a jerk and it wasn't funny.

Here's the thing - Al wasn't being a jerk in the photograph. He was pretending to act like an asshole to get laughs. Like "aren't people who would be creepy like this ridiculous"?

I know this is too many layers deep for people in the MSM.

It's not a picture of him groping someone

It's not even a picture of him sincerely pretending to grope someone

It is him pretending to be an asshole who would grope someone ... for a laugh.

Kind of like Stephen Colbert pretending to be a right wing asshole. For laughs.

Kind of like Kelsey Grammar pretending to be a pretentious asshole. For laughs.

Whatever. The guy's being crucified on the altar of GOP hypocrisy.



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Reply Here's another thing that bothers me about Franken's assassination: the photo (Original post)
ProfessorPlum Dec 2017 OP
underpants Dec 2017 #1
rzemanfl Dec 2017 #2
ProfessorPlum Dec 2017 #3
panader0 Dec 2017 #7
dchill Dec 2017 #29
rock Dec 2017 #35
misanthrope Dec 2017 #57
geardaddy Dec 2017 #42
BHDem53 Dec 2017 #73
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #82
rzemanfl Dec 2017 #86
msongs Dec 2017 #4
NanceGreggs Dec 2017 #5
suegeo Dec 2017 #91
NanceGreggs Dec 2017 #94
suegeo Dec 2017 #98
LiberalLovinLug Dec 2017 #117
CrowCity_Dem Dec 2017 #6
rzemanfl Dec 2017 #8
LakeArenal Dec 2017 #9
Brother Buzz Dec 2017 #12
LakeArenal Dec 2017 #15
Brother Buzz Dec 2017 #26
LakeArenal Dec 2017 #27
Brother Buzz Dec 2017 #31
LakeArenal Dec 2017 #51
ProfessorPlum Dec 2017 #50
questionseverything Dec 2017 #24
Egnever Dec 2017 #10
CrowCity_Dem Dec 2017 #16
Egnever Dec 2017 #18
Hekate Dec 2017 #23
doc03 Dec 2017 #49
Bettie Dec 2017 #63
WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2017 #11
pandr32 Dec 2017 #13
brooklynite Dec 2017 #14
treestar Dec 2017 #22
ChubbyStar Dec 2017 #39
ProfessorPlum Dec 2017 #41
Susan Calvin Dec 2017 #71
JHB Dec 2017 #118
Susan Calvin Dec 2017 #120
brush Dec 2017 #53
Susan Calvin Dec 2017 #121
cannabis_flower Dec 2017 #64
Qutzupalotl Dec 2017 #17
Wednesdays Dec 2017 #19
ProfessorPlum Dec 2017 #43
snort Dec 2017 #52
Susan Calvin Dec 2017 #122
rainin Dec 2017 #20
treestar Dec 2017 #21
Honeycombe8 Dec 2017 #25
Ms. Toad Dec 2017 #28
rzemanfl Dec 2017 #30
Ms. Toad Dec 2017 #34
rzemanfl Dec 2017 #37
Ms. Toad Dec 2017 #38
rzemanfl Dec 2017 #60
Ms. Toad Dec 2017 #66
rzemanfl Dec 2017 #69
FakeNoose Dec 2017 #67
dchill Dec 2017 #32
Drahthaardogs Dec 2017 #33
lunatica Dec 2017 #36
ProfessorPlum Dec 2017 #46
mainstreetonce Dec 2017 #80
Pacifist Patriot Dec 2017 #108
Pacifist Patriot Dec 2017 #107
PatSeg Dec 2017 #40
wishstar Dec 2017 #44
ProfessorPlum Dec 2017 #47
Voltaire2 Dec 2017 #54
ProfessorPlum Dec 2017 #61
Voltaire2 Dec 2017 #109
ProfessorPlum Dec 2017 #113
LakeArenal Dec 2017 #56
TheFrenchRazor Dec 2017 #105
LakeArenal Dec 2017 #111
Whiskeytide Dec 2017 #70
snort Dec 2017 #75
tonedevil Dec 2017 #85
Whiskeytide Dec 2017 #97
tonedevil Dec 2017 #100
Nevernose Dec 2017 #96
ProfessorPlum Dec 2017 #102
scarletwoman Dec 2017 #45
zentrum Dec 2017 #48
workinclasszero Dec 2017 #55
PatrickforO Dec 2017 #58
mn9driver Dec 2017 #77
ffr Dec 2017 #59
ancianita Dec 2017 #62
BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2017 #65
trof Dec 2017 #68
TheFrenchRazor Dec 2017 #106
DeltaLitProf Dec 2017 #72
ProfessorPlum Dec 2017 #74
ChubbyStar Dec 2017 #83
dansolo Dec 2017 #119
McCamy Taylor Dec 2017 #76
tblue37 Dec 2017 #78
L. Coyote Dec 2017 #79
dalton99a Dec 2017 #110
tandem5 Dec 2017 #81
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #84
MrPurple Dec 2017 #87
ProfessorPlum Dec 2017 #89
hurple Dec 2017 #88
riverwalker Dec 2017 #90
MrModerate Dec 2017 #92
riverwalker Dec 2017 #93
suegeo Dec 2017 #95
JI7 Dec 2017 #124
chowder66 Dec 2017 #99
HopeAgain Dec 2017 #101
Heartstrings Dec 2017 #103
SargeXXX Dec 2017 #104
lark Dec 2017 #112
oasis Dec 2017 #125
RVN VET71 Dec 2017 #114
Beartracks Dec 2017 #115
marble falls Dec 2017 #116
Raine Dec 2017 #123

Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:27 PM

1. Who are they going to believe, Fox News or their lying eyes?

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:27 PM

2. +1 K&R. However, Kelsey Grammar is a pretentious asshole. n/t

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:29 PM

3. I had that thought too when I was writing it lol

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:38 PM

7. You beat me to it.

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:14 PM

29. 100% agree.

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:21 PM

35. It only means

That he can play one excellently! I've never seen a better portrayal (or is it?).

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Response to rock (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:54 PM

57. It certainly is a portrayal

Grammer is neither as learned, refined, judicious or intelligent as his famous TV character. He merely sounds as if he is.

It's kind of like Jeff Goldblum, a guy who everyone sees as a highly educated nerdly type, a scientist in black leather. Truth is he only holds a high school diploma.

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:29 PM

42. +1 re: Grammer.

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:21 PM

73. My thought exactly.

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:56 PM

82. Isn't he also a Republican?

Anyone who can self ID as a Republican now, that's enough for me to know they're an asshole, if not necessarily a pretentious one.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #82)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:58 PM

86. That's my recollection. n/t

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:32 PM

4. gop hypocrisy? umm no its the dems dumping him. nt

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:35 PM

5. Yes, it's ALL been ludicrous.

Like the "here's a photo of me and Al together at the state fair. I know it looks innocent, but that was just before he groped me. What further proof do you need?"

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 08:52 PM

91. I'm so upset about this hit job on Franken

I am from Minnesota, and watched the fascists in this state somehow turn the memorial service for Paul Wellstone into something against democrats. I saw how low they could go, and did go.

I watched Al Franken during the recount against Coleman, fighting for every vote, knowing how they stole the election from Al Gore. My vote for Al Franken got counted because he was willing to fight back against the election stealing republicans.

Flash forward to current times. My vote for Al Franken got stolen from me by bumbling women in the Democratic party. Al Franken groped women at the state fair? Really? There are hundreds of thousands of people at the state fair, why would he grope someone in so public a venue? In front of one woman's husband? The crowds are so deep you get bumped all the time, if in fact you can even move through the crowds in line at the over-rated Sweet Martha's cookie stand. Jesus, maybe I was groped too? When that guy or a couple of 50 ran into me by the Gizmo sandwich stand?

And don't get me started on the USO thing and the republican talk radio hag who is friends with that fink Hannity. Republican dirty tricks. All over again. It's how they fuc@ the rats. Like at the Wellstone memorial thing.

How are democrats so stupid to fall for it every time, this time pissing me the hell off?

Now I gotta give more money, more time, to support a seat that was won, so it doesn't go to the rat bastard republicans. And the fascist Grand old politburo party will run the country into the ground in the mean time, without Franken there to stop them. FML.

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Response to suegeo (Reply #91)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:10 PM

94. I understand ...

... that this nightmare is even more keenly felt by the people he directly represents.

We have all lost a strong voice and ally in the Senate - but Minnesotans have now been forced to swallow a particularly bitter pill.

Stay strong, stay active - and my condolences for having lost such a strong voice on your state's behalf.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #94)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:28 PM

98. Thank you

What you wrote really resonated with me. A couple of pictures at the state fair are all it takes to throw our best player under the bus? By his own team?

I am so pissed I can't write straight now. Thanks to Godess you can.

And people who claim "The republicans, supporting that raper in Alabama, will now be know as the pedophile party" Ummm Denny Hastert ring any bells. They are already the baby abusing party.

Children! Christ on a trailer hitch!

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Response to suegeo (Reply #98)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 06:09 PM

117. Do you think Al would have the votes if he ran as an Independent next time?

Seeing as you are from his home State. Personally I think he would. I hope enough Minnesotans are as angry about this as you, and are prepared to stick with him.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:38 PM

6. So now it was high-minded social commentary?

 

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Response to CrowCity_Dem (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:41 PM

8. Use a canoe paddle. n/t

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Response to CrowCity_Dem (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:45 PM

9. Hey I recognize you from another post about Al.

You are persistent.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:49 PM

12. It's just a coincidence, not an agenda

SO STOP SAYING THAT!

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Response to Brother Buzz (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:54 PM

15. Saying what?

Whatever it is, you imply I have said it before???

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:09 PM

26. You?

Not at all.

Bummer Bob Boudelang was WAY, WAY before your time because you'd know exactly was I was IMPLYING.

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Response to Brother Buzz (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:11 PM

27. I'm pretty old Brother. Must have missed Bob.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:16 PM

31. If you have some spare time, you might enjoy reading an old DU staple....

and learn where my comment was coming from:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/bob/

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Response to Brother Buzz (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:48 PM

51. I will. Thanks

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Response to Brother Buzz (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:47 PM

50. lol.

"ya burnt"

great call back

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:06 PM

24. everybody gotta work somewhere

evidently

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Response to CrowCity_Dem (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:46 PM

10. No it was a bad joke

 

one that has been repeated millions of times by others but when it was done by a sitting senator before he was a senator apparently it is a bridge too far.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:58 PM

16. How about the OP:

 

Comparing it to real Satire like The Colbert Report. Seriously? Maybe the fact we treat this stuff like a joke is why it's so pervasive.

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Response to CrowCity_Dem (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:00 PM

18. We treat many things as a joke

 

usually we have the wherewithal to understand they are jokes and often they are funny because they point out the ridiculousness of the action.

If comedy is dead so are we as a country.

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Response to CrowCity_Dem (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:06 PM

23. I am shocked, SHOCKED, that an alumnus of SNL would engage in sight gags and raunchy humor!!!

While on a comedy entertainment tour for the troops no less!!! Dear gods what is the world coming to?!

Now, go away please.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:46 PM

49. From the video that I saw the guy that she did the lap dance on

or the one that got his ass groped should be doing the complaining.

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Response to CrowCity_Dem (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:59 PM

63. Wow, joined just to sow division

Today even.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:47 PM

11. HE'S DEAD???

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:51 PM

13. Agreed

Clowning around while being a comedian is part and parcel.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:52 PM

14. "assasination"

And I'm accused of over the top writing.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:05 PM

22. it is an image

not literal; a literary tool.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:27 PM

39. I don't think you are accused of over the top writing

From the replies I have seen most people just think it is bad. Difference. Press on!

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:29 PM

41. would you prefer "defenestration"?

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #41)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:16 PM

71. I would. It's my favorite word.

(Not that I want it done to Franken.)

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Response to Susan Calvin (Reply #71)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 06:20 PM

118. It WAS done to Franken, politically.

His Senate work was thrown out a window, along with “pragmatism.”

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Response to JHB (Reply #118)

Sun Dec 10, 2017, 12:18 AM

120. Yes, it absolutely was. nt

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:51 PM

53. Not that far off. Franken's political career is dead.

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Response to brush (Reply #53)

Sun Dec 10, 2017, 12:19 AM

121. Not by me. Franken 2020! nt

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:59 PM

64. It was an assassination..

Character assassination that is.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 05:58 PM

17. Agreed on all points, and furthermore:

a) in the photo, the flash is so close to the lens you can't be sure his hands are touching her jacket or are slightly above; and

b) even if they were touching, SHE'S WEARING A FUCKING FLAK JACKET, so it's not like Franken was getting any jollies other than the obvious joke. Those things are so thick you can't feel a thing through them! So that is also part of the joke...and went over the heads of the obtuse.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:04 PM

19. Like some in this thread. nt

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:30 PM

43. thank you

excellent points

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:49 PM

52. And wasn't she pretending to be asleep

like the guy next to her was. Or did she fall asleep wearing battle fatigues, for some reason? Like the guy next to her.

Because if she was pretending, she was in on the joke.

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Response to snort (Reply #52)

Sun Dec 10, 2017, 12:21 AM

122. That's what I want to know.

If she was in on it, she's got nothing.

I would like to know the fact of that, which I am sure is available.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:04 PM

20. Down is up; Up is down.

How can you even explain this lack of critical thinking? I don't get it. Great post, btw.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:05 PM

21. Too subtle for the literal-minded

Or at least, they are pretending to be.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:07 PM

25. I don't think you wanna use Kelsey Grammar in your list.

There's a babysitter thing in his past.

But moving on, there IS a photo of HER twerking against a fellow male musician's butt.




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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:12 PM

28. According to the allegation,

She was asleep, and did not consent to the photo.

If that was me, and somoene used my sleeping body as a prop, to pretend to act like a jerk to get laughs, it would not matter to me that their intent was not to grope me or to actually be a jerk.

Using my body as a prop for a joke without my consent is not appropriate, and Franken properly apologized for it.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:14 PM

30. I'm sure Playboy had a signed release though. n/t

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #30)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:19 PM

34. I hope you are not suggesting that consent in one sexually charged situation

has anything to do with whether there was consent in this specific situation.

Because that would mean you're stuck back in the 70s or earlier, when prostitutes couldn't be raped, wives couldn't be raped by their husbands, etc. Because one consent covered everything.

Surely no one on a progressive board engages in that kind of backward, misogynistic, thinking.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:23 PM

37. No I am not. I am not convinced she was asleep, nor am I convinced she was not in on the gag.

She is pals with Hannity and Drumpf, Jr. She announces for a right-wing radio station. I have more to say but dinner is ready.

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:26 PM

38. That has nothing to do with the point I was responding to -

which suggested everything was just fine (consent or not) becuase Franken wasn't really trying to grope her, or wasn't really being a jerk, he was just pretending to be a jerk for laughs.

My point is that that his motive (sexual gratification, being a jerk, or making a failed joke) is absolutely irrelevant if she was sleeping and did not consent to the use of her sleeping body as a prop.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #38)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:57 PM

60. The first thing I said was I am not convinced she was sleeping. The second thing I said was I was

not convinced she was not in on the joke. There are a lot of things about her story that don't add up, when the photo was taken, where the plane was going, etc. Why Hannity claimed to have seen it years ago and why it didn't surface during the 2008 campaign. I recently read Giant of the Senate and they were scouring Franken's life for anything to use against him then.

If she was asleep and unknowingly used as a prop I totally agree with you.

An ethics hearing would clear this all up, oh wait....

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #60)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:04 PM

66. The OP I was responding to was only addressing Franken's behavior

And was alleging it was all fine becasue we misunderstood that he wasn't really groping her or wasn't really acting like a jerk - he was only play-acting that he was a jerk for a joke.

If she consented, the story is over.

There would be no need to explain things are fine because he wasn't groping, or acting like a jerk, but merely play-acting that he was a jerk for a joke.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #66)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:07 PM

69. There are so many threads they blur together.

Particularly after days and days of this. Peace.

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #60)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:05 PM

67. Somebody paid that girl a lot of money

... maybe it was Steve Bannon or Junior?

I have no way of knowing. But she didn't do this for free.


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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:17 PM

32. I take Breitbart/FOX allegations for what they're worth.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:18 PM

33. Yeah, but she also alleged he wrote the skit as an excuse to kiss her

Which was proven to be a lie unless Al fucking Franken travels time.

So she's a liar.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:22 PM

36. Another point is that people who grope don't do it in front of others

Gropers like to be alone with their victims. That way they can claim she's lying if she says anything.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:32 PM

46. of course. an excellent and important point

"Look, Franken's so creepy he even poses for photographs while he commits assault "

for fuck's sake

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Response to lunatica (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:48 PM

80. All the accusations agaist him

happened in public or in front of witnesses. There is no way any of it is sexual assault.

There is not one accusation of Franken actually trying to have sex with a woman.

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Response to mainstreetonce (Reply #80)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 09:36 AM

108. Inappropriate contact happens in public.

But inappropriate contact is not the same thing as sexual assault. The assault part of that phrase is being used way too freely. It's trivializing real sexual assault. However, sexual assault does happen in public at times, and we have to be realistic about that. Sexual harassment happens in public all the damn time.

The public/private aspect of these accusations is irrelevant in my opinion. The act itself is what needs to be evaluated.
Someone puts their hand on my ass or squeezes my waist without my permission, that's inappropriate contact. And that damn well has happened in public. It might upset me, but it's not going to traumatize me for life. And the response to inappropriate contact verses sexual assault should be different.


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Response to lunatica (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 09:29 AM

107. Not in my experience

I've been groped in plenty of public places. Gropers rely on no one giving a shit or being brave enough to say anything.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Franken is guilty of groping, but simply because the accusations came from public places means squat. As I mentioned in a post the other day, Governor Clinton groped my ass in an auditorium. There were over a thousand people there. Wasn't remotely traumatized and voted for him for president twice. Would all over again.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:27 PM

40. That's a good point

He was a performer and he was playing a role for laughs, even if it wasn't before a regular audience. Obviously there were other people there and the one with the camera was awake.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:31 PM

44. However Al stated "she didn't have any ability to consent. She had every right to feel violated"

Full quote by Al supersedes whatever we may believe about the circumstances and context of the photo:

“What my intention was doesn’t matter. What matters is that I am chained to that photo. She didn’t have any ability to consent. She had every right to feel violated by that photo. I have apologized to her, and I was very grateful that she accepted my apology.”

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Response to wishstar (Reply #44)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:36 PM

47. Yes. Yes, he did.

This was Franken trying to show the world and other assholes how to take an accusation seriously.

To validate the other persons' experience. To state understanding for why someone might feel bad about this or that. It's what actual human beings do when someone tells them they have hurt them.

And to show that it doesn't matter what our own intentions are when you hurt someone. What matters is that they feel hurt, and a real human acknowledges and validates the other's feelings.

It is how you treat a real accusation. Which is great. Except when you are dealing with ratfuckers like this crowd, who aren't making real accusations.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #47)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:51 PM

54. So he was lying when he said she was asleep and unable to consent?

Er, no I think that's not what happened. This point does however wreak havoc with your theory so you have to explain it away.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #54)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:58 PM

61. he was responding to her allegation by taking her claims seriously

Even if he thought it was bullshit, remembered it a completely different way, or thinks that maybe she is sincerely mis-remembering the incident.

For the sake of argument, he was taking her allegations seriously and at face value. Even though the charge of groping her through a flak jacket while she slept and he posed mischievously for a photograph is fucking nonsense on its face.

this is what someone does when someone says you've hurt them. You don't tell them their feelings are wrong - you acknowledge their feelings, validate them as a person, and state why they might feel that way.

God, even his being an exemplar of the most humane way to deal with someone who says you hurt them works against him. As your misunderstanding shows.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #61)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 10:30 AM

109. No he explicitly stated that "she didn't have any ability to consent."

That is unambiguous. And it destroys your theory.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #109)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 01:52 PM

113. just because you don't understand it

or are pretending to not understand it doesn't mean that you are reading it correctly.

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Response to wishstar (Reply #44)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:54 PM

56. Has any one ever seen Benny Hill

Lots and lots of folks think this stuff is funny. I have seen worse on Bob Hope USO Specials.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 04:03 AM

105. i would bet that 99% of people who think benny hill is funny are teenage males. nt

 

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Response to TheFrenchRazor (Reply #105)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 10:49 AM

111. Most of the soldiers at a USO show....

Are teenage soldiers. I don’t know what the nuance is anyway. I know many 45 men who loved Benny Hill.

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Response to wishstar (Reply #44)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:07 PM

70. But you understand ...

... that refers to her consent to go along with the joke. NOT her consent to be groped. She doesn’t get to claim she was sexually assaulted by what occurred in the photo (although that is EXACTLY What she claimed - she has ZERO credibility because of that).

If her complaint was “they used me for a crude joke and I didn’t appreciate it”, I would say fair enough. Al should - and did - apologize for that. That should be the end of it.

But that’s not what happened here. They used the photo out of context - PROMOTED it out of context - and it caught fire as something it wasn’t. She was not sincere in her victimhood. It was a put on.

She showed the photo to Hannity 10 years ago. Neither she nor Hannity thought then that it was evidence of sexual assault. But they got together again a month or two ago, and in the wave of the MeToo movement, decided to pull a takedown op.

This shit diminishes victims of assault just as insidiously as actually blaming victims. And Tweeden, Stone and Hannity are laughing every time a Dem says “it’s good that Al resigned”.

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Response to Whiskeytide (Reply #70)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:31 PM

75. Yes

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Response to Whiskeytide (Reply #70)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:58 PM

85. Oddly...

Hannity did say she had shown it to him years ago. That was after she said she had never shared it.

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Response to tonedevil (Reply #85)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:18 PM

97. My theory - Someone was having a drink ...

... somewhere - could have been any of them - and remembered that pic. They figured they could use it, put a story about a forced kiss that was “just the two of them” (convenient) to spice it up. I don’t know if the next two were orchestrated or just pile ons. They hoped a few more would pop up. The “he grabbed my waist” lady looks like a genuine misperception. And then a couple of anonymous claims.

It’s just shit. It’s a shame. He’s a good guy I think, and doesn’t deserve this. But he pissed off the wrong assholes, I guess.

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Response to Whiskeytide (Reply #97)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:59 PM

100. The out for a drink...

origin theory seems plausible. I want to know why we only heard from Melanie Morgan once? Lindsay Menz gets credit for being the second accuser, but Ms. Morgan said that the Senator stalked her after they appeared together on Politically Incorrect before that. It seems her story didn't have sex in it so she got written out of the show.

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Response to wishstar (Reply #44)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:15 PM

96. You seem to have a false impression of the meaning of those words

“But in responding to their claims I also wanted to be respectful of that broader conversation, because all women deserve to be heard and their experiences taken seriously.

I think that was the right thing to do. I also think it gave some people the false impression that I was admitting to doing things that in fact I haven't done.

Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others I remember very differently.”

He wasn’t admitting to groping her. He was apologizing for involving her in a tasteless gag photo, while not shitting all over the millions of ACTUAL victims out there.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #96)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 10:29 PM

102. exactly

well written

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:32 PM

45. Thank you so much for this post.

It's all been Emperor's New Clothes around that stupid photo.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:40 PM

48. And the alter

…of Dem weakness.

(But, IMO, Kelsey Grammar really is a pretentious ass—as are most right wingers.)

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:53 PM

55. Thanks for calling it what it is...

 

A political assassination.

No hearings, no trial, bang you are dead Senator Franken, GTFO now!


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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:55 PM

58. No, actually he has been crucified on a cross of

Democratic Party hypocrisy. Specifically, he has been sacrificed at the Kirsten Gillibrand and Kamala Harris altar of presidential ambition.

But, hey, don't worry. Come primary season, I won't be forgetting this. In fact, I just called Gillibrand's office and told her to expect major blowback from this miscalculation in my state, because that's what I'm hearing from the base on the ground.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #58)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:34 PM

77. Agree.

I won’t be forgetting the names of any of the folks who decided to run him out based on pretty thin allegations of nothing worse than being too handsy.

Al’s political career is over. As far as I’m concerned, so are theirs.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:56 PM

59. And she's a Tweet friend of tRump Jr. for Pete's sake!

She's a tRump groupy who brags about wanting to golf with tRump and corresponds with Jr. semi-regularly.

Does she have bone to pick with Al Franken? You bet she does!!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 06:59 PM

62. Occasional nuisance behavior is nowhere near years and years of sexual predation.

The guy's being crucified on the altar of silly Democratic "both sides do it" fear.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:03 PM

65. And the altar of Liberal Purity.

Or, I hate to say it, but, Feminist Purity.

No, #BelieveWomen doesn’t mean forget about investigation and dive in to believe any piece of made-up partisan bullshit thrown out by someone who is professionally sexually inappropriate and a trumpanzee.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:06 PM

68. It's called "mugging" for the camera.

And it is physically impossible to 'grope' someone through a flak jacket.
Hold a cast iron frying up in front of your chest.
Ask someone to grope you through it.

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Response to trof (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 04:08 AM

106. would he grab a man's butt? or a child's butt? people clearly know what they think they can get away

 

get away with, what will be considered socially acceptable. i think a lot of women are tired of this kind of treatment being socially acceptable; clearly there is some disagreement on this, even right here on DU.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:18 PM

72. A waste of time

If Tweeden's were the only allegation, maybe there'd be some merit in pursuing this. But several other women, most of them Democrats, have also come forward. And their stories are consistent with one another.

Give it up.

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Response to DeltaLitProf (Reply #72)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:31 PM

74. you are lying

or misinformed

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Response to DeltaLitProf (Reply #72)


Response to DeltaLitProf (Reply #72)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 06:23 PM

119. Correction - most of them are anonymous

We have no idea who half of the accusers are, and no way of verifying any aspects of their stories. Three of the accusers are Republicans, with the first one being a close associate of Sean Hannity. And the last one claimed that he groped her waist while taking a picture with her. Really? Is that the standard now?

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:32 PM

76. Like charging an actor with a crime a character commits

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:35 PM

78. Except Kelsey Grammar isn't pretending. He IS a pompous (RW) @$$h**e. nt

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:48 PM

79. In the other photo, their heads are not in the reflection behind them!

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #79)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 10:32 AM

110. +1

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:55 PM

81. I agree. It is important to be accurate about the accusation...

And this all falls under the current theme of distorted facts trumping reality: All we can do is operate off of what has been claimed and what the existing evidence shows. In this case she said that she had been asleep when it happened. I'm not aware of any confirmed claim that others witnessed him touching her. So she cannot say for certain he made contact and by all appearances it looks like a gag photo.

So in terms of the accusation all one can reasonably say is that it appears as though he was part of a gag photo in which it was made to appear that he was touching her. So in those terms the argument can be made that is was wrong for him to use her in the photo without her consent and that is a very real, and valid claim, but absent of any additional information that should've been how the media presented it, but instead it was sloppily registered as a check mark under the "groping" column.

As a slightly off-topic note that adds credence to the idea that it was a gag photo. A 2003 (not 2006) Christmas in Kuwait event appears to show a scripted act in which it is recommended that she should have a 'breast examination' and in response Franken holds out his hands in a similar way to the photo. I want to be clear though that even if the photo might stem from a reenactment of a scripted element in a show it would still be wrong if she were not awake at the time and "in" on the joke.

Additionally I think the topic of the USO tours was not adequately presented by the media. These shows are historically bawdy and over the top. This is not an excuse for Franken, but it does offer a fair context.

None of this takes away from the veracity of the other claims and that's the point. We need to emphasize that each accusation made should be addressed uniquely and seriously on its own merits. We shouldn't be afraid of being accurate because we are afraid it might jeopardize other claims or the larger movement. If we play that game of mutual dependency we help the likes of Steve Bannon destroy everything with one calculated fabrication.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 07:57 PM

84. I'd been trying to put that same idea into words.

Thanks for doing it for me.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 08:12 PM

87. Didn't he shoot the photo with Tweeden's cell phone?

It was obviously just a prank of a goofy photo that she would stumble on later as a laugh. They were on a USO tour where they were doing a comedy sketch of him lusting for her. This whole thing is what Al described in his book as "the dehumorizer".

I would expect that Fox would purposely misrepresent the situation, but it's kind of surprising that no one in the MSM described the correct context of what this picture was. I guess it was better for their ratings to have another case in the explosion of sexual harassment scandals, but SOMEONE should have differentiated that this was NOT that,

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Response to MrPurple (Reply #87)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 08:24 PM

89. Excellent post

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 08:17 PM

88. Plus

several other witnesses at the scene have said it was a POSED photo with full participation and approval from Tweeden!!!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 08:51 PM

90. There were witnesses

The photographer, the guy in the next seat, across the aisle, it was a packed plane. Franken should hire a private dick to get their statements down.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 08:52 PM

92. You're overcomplicating it. It was just goofy. A goofy, staged, consensual promo shot.

Franken had a professional responsibility to be goofy and the shot was. The subtlety of the subtext never rose above "hubba-hubba."

Which was as it should be.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 08:57 PM

93. When Tweeden came out with the original story

She said “he groped me”. When clearly he didn’t. Why did she say that?

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #93)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:11 PM

95. If only there could be an investigation to find out the answer to that!

I am from Minnesota and I feel violated. By women "leaders" in my own party.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #93)

Sun Dec 10, 2017, 05:49 AM

124. she backed off and said how she accepted the apology and didn't want him to resign

and how he was a good senator.

they are all very much opposed to any investigation.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:39 PM

99. Mocked groping.

It's like a little kid who sees boobs and acts like he's grabbing them. Immature for an adult male...but he's a comedian.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 10:15 PM

101. It's all moot now

I've been trolling the Alabama news sites with comments about Moore. Posing as a Southern Baptist who is just not going to vote this time out of disgust in my "hometown" of Mobile. Cheered me up a bit and got my mind off this mess.

Is that bad?

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 12:30 AM

103. He was the sacrificial lamb...nt

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 01:05 AM

104. You can't grope someone in a flak jacket. THAT was the joke.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 10:50 AM

112. NO, he's being crucified by complicit dems for their own advancement.

I know repugs are traitors and oligarchs first, but to have Dems do this is just astounding to me. I can't believe the depths of treachery that exists that they would allow a rw saboteur to force franken out of office without giving him a hearing. It's the dems who stabbed the country in the back, helping repugs kill one of the most effective curbs on the repug machine.

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Response to lark (Reply #112)

Sun Dec 10, 2017, 06:23 AM

125. +1

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:57 PM

114. Nailed it except for one thing:

It wasn't GOP hypocrisy that did Al in. It was Democratic cowardice; tempered by not a little contempt for our intelligence. The Party moved against Franken not because any one of them really felt offended by Franken's photos but because they thought the majority of us would be.

My greatest disappointment in this whole extremely disappointing affair: Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

I'll still vote for Senator Warren when she gets the Democratic nomination in 2020, but my vote will be against the GOP rather than for her. I'll vote against any Republican because all Republicans favor pedophilia over health care and deficit reduction. But I see through the whole Democratic Party as representing virtue without strength of conviction or honor.

Lily Tomlin's words have never rung truer than after the Democratic sacrifice of Franken to the GOP: I try to be cynical, but it's so hard keeping up.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 04:18 PM

115. Yes, 1000x yes. Your humor analysis is spot on. n/t

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 04:54 PM

116. " Kelsey Grammar pretending to be a pretentious asshole." its not so much pretending ....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1310273/Kelsey-Grammer-launches-Tea-Party-TV-Actor-public-face-new-right-wing-U-S-network.html

Kelsey Grammer launches 'Tea Party TV': Actor becomes public face of new right-wing U.S. network

By Mail Foreign Service
Updated: 07:08 EST, 9 September 2010

23

View comments

[caption]

Kelsey Grammer has become the public face of a new U.S. network dubbed 'Tea Party TV'.

The actor is also an investor in RightNetwork, which launched today.

The network presents entertainment designed to appeal to political conservatives.

It has been dubbed 'Tea Party TV' by various left-wing blogs and news outlets for its political leanings, and because the network was working closely with the Tea Party in preparation for its launch.

Mr Grammer said the network represented a desire by him and some political friends 'to stop allowing people who hate us to define us'.

'If you have NBC, ABC, you have entire networks flooded with a very particular point of view,' he said.

'They won't admit it, but it's clearly the way it is. There's plenty of room for us.'

He added: 'We're not out to vilify or accuse or identify anybody as an enemy... We're out there to encourage people to open their minds and take a look at some things that we as a group of people believe is the right direction for the country.'

Mr Grammer said he 'came out' as a conservative in Hollywood 20 years ago.

<snip>

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Sun Dec 10, 2017, 05:41 AM

123. Good insight

you nailed it..

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