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Bibluca

(63 posts)
Sat Dec 9, 2017, 01:02 PM Dec 2017

We all need to change our approach

For thirty years, despite two Presidents who were Democrats, our country has been sliding into a deep, stinky right-wing hole, and we're all being dragged down with it. Half of Americans have been convinced that wedge issues like guns, gays, and abortion are more important than civil rights, economic equality, and human decency; candidates who favor the wealthy, who are pro-gun, anti-gay, and anti-abortion can essentially be child molesters and still get elected by half of our fellow citizens. This is a very bad place to be.

Progressives all must accept that no matter how true an argument we give, no matter how factual, the average person won't change their mind from falsity. Fox News has never won a person over using facts, and no facts are ever going to win that person back.

So what do we do?

Somehow, we need to take charge of the message. Trump of course is a master of that, as painful as it is to admit. So were Mussolini and Hitler. The Progressive people back then got nowhere by trying to be reasonable and factual.

There's a huge number of smart, passionate people on DU. What ideas do people have to take control of the message? Things that we ourselves can do.

It's the figurative act of getting up on a soapbox in the town square and saying: "Hey, listen here. We've got something to say."

How about this: small teams on twitter whose job it is to respond immediately to current events, nutty right-wing statements, and good policy moves by Dems (and other teams to echo it), using humor, irony, and sarcasm. Whatever it takes to get attention.

Or Youtube vids to the same effect?

Or a series of websites that push the same envelope? Not something safe like the NYT or MSNBC, but something that reaches the people that those sites don't.

Or a single edgy billboard, that makes the right wing media insanely mad?

Things are getting desperate. Let's talk about some ideas to fight it.

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
We all need to change our approach (Original Post) Bibluca Dec 2017 OP
Everyone needs to start with Lawrence O'Donnell's book underthematrix Dec 2017 #1
Wow Bibluca Dec 2017 #2
At least 169 now. KPN Dec 2017 #3
I've long thought that as progressive as we wanna be 'the other side' can only take Kirk Lover Dec 2017 #4
YES to solutions! DemocracyMouse Dec 2017 #5
Izzat you, DangerMouse???? marble falls Dec 2017 #6
2 things that come to mind as top priorities: diva77 Dec 2017 #7
Clinton and Obama built top flight organizations. Blue_true Dec 2017 #8
Yes, extinguish lies, but also have a Truth DemocracyMouse Dec 2017 #9
I agree but Bibluca Dec 2017 #10
Adults of Democracy DemocracyMouse Dec 2017 #11

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
1. Everyone needs to start with Lawrence O'Donnell's book
Sat Dec 9, 2017, 01:38 PM
Dec 2017

PLAYING WITH FIRE: The 1968 Election and the Transformation of American Politics


I can't put it down.

 

Bibluca

(63 posts)
2. Wow
Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:03 PM
Dec 2017

There have been 168 views, but only one person commented. Am I the only one who thinks that the current Progressive approach isn't working?

How is just venting frustration online going to change anything?

 

Kirk Lover

(3,608 posts)
4. I've long thought that as progressive as we wanna be 'the other side' can only take
Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:10 PM
Dec 2017

a molecule of a fraction of a step at a time. Therefore, I think a centrists approach is the only way we can make steady small gains that stick. We need to manipulate the middle. The hard lefties need to understand that this is a very long marathon and the goal is to move forward no matter how small that forward step is.

We need to band together in order for this to happen - these 3rd party voters are really hurting us when essentially we are on the same side and want most of the same things. They just don't get it.

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
5. YES to solutions!
Sat Dec 9, 2017, 04:10 PM
Dec 2017

And YES to taking charge of the message, launching smart (and effective) websites, working in teams, throwing weekly parties to celebrate (and debate) our common vision! We are living through UNBELIEVABLE times – the stuff of future film and literature – and we may as well be among the luminaries and change agents.

I'm just now joining the Democratic Underground as a participant and I have to say this forum gives me great hope for the country. Yes, "Bibluca," let's start shifting to solutions (while discussing the issues) and do so intelligently, kindly and creatively. Coming up with "meta-solutions" along with specific solutions would be a good thing. As a major progressive forum we could even formulate general approaches and guidelines AND FIND WAYS TO CHISEL THESE DOWN INTO CRISP TALKING POINTS, EVEN SOUNDBITES.

And I echo Bibluca in seeking discussion on this.

And one such meta-solution? Let us come to terms with the fact that the public really craves stability right now and the Republicans are certainly not the ones providing it. We have an uncanny advantage of being the party of progress while simultaneously being the adult in the room representing our democratic traditions going back to the Enlightenment. Republicans have scuttled their former tag as "traditionalists" and "conservatives." It's all ours now – along with the progress meme. We conserve the planet and proudly and patriotically stand behind our democratic traditions. How's this —

DEMOCRATS: ROOTED IN DEMOCRATIC TRADITION, UNLEASHING A NEW ECONOMY FOR ALL

As Trump and his foaming minions blithely ride roughshod over our country's unstated rules of decency and democratic process, we may find it unnerving, but WE ACTUALLY HAVE THE UPPERHAND. The trendy babblers drawing attention to themseves through the most adolescent of means (with help from Russia, Fox and Breitbart, etc) cannot shake a stick at the traditional core values that Democrats stand for. Our country has deep in its cultural DNA too much love of free expression, democratic process, REAL justice, creative lunacy, entrepreneurial chutzpah, etc., to let these louts ever get the upper hand. Believe it.

I'll hazard some talking points in which Democrats take repossession of concepts like "patriot" and "tradition" and "free enterprise" (founded on a democratic infrastruture):

DEMOCRATS ARE THE COUNTRY'S/CONSTITUTION'S PATRIOTS

WE REPRESENT THE BEST OF DEMOCRATIC TRADITIONS.

WE HAVE TO STOP FALLING FOR THE CONSTRUCT "SOCIALISM vs CAPITALISM". Try this instead:

WE LOVE US A SMART INFRASTRUCTURE OF TRAINS, SCHOOLS, FAIR ELECTIONS AND NET NEUTRALITY WHICH EMPOWERS FREE ENTERPRISE FOR ALL THE PEOPLE.... and we are ACTUALLY BETTER at tweaking the bureaucracy to keep it functional, ethical and efficient.

We have the upperhand, the majority, the wisdom, to overcome. But it would be quite useful at this juncture to draw support from our great democratic traditions, to be both the party of infrastructure and (properly regulated) free enterprise. But we must lock into the public imagination that we handle both justice and the economy better than the clowns. By doing this we can bring on board a massive influx of support by digging deep into United States history to draw out, and shore up, the themes that ALL AMERICANS in their hearts really want. We want to get past all this divisive hate and get back to a country that empowers all Americans.

But we have to state to the public at large EXPLICITLY what Democrats all too often assume the public knows (but doesn't): we are rooted in America's best TRADITIONS while pressing forward. We are serious about infrastructure (which includes our safety nets) precisely BECAUSE it provides for a vital, and broadly shared, economy.

Thank you, Bibluca, for seeding a discussion about solutions. I welcome debate (and soundbites for any of the above).

diva77

(7,639 posts)
7. 2 things that come to mind as top priorities:
Sat Dec 9, 2017, 08:37 PM
Dec 2017

1) We need paper ballots, hand counted at the precinct level with public oversight. Computerized voting, tabulation and scanning need to be banned.

2) Bring back the Fairness Doctrine

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
8. Clinton and Obama built top flight organizations.
Sat Dec 9, 2017, 09:27 PM
Dec 2017

And they lived on the campaign trail. They had war rooms that responded immediately to lies from the rightwing media. Clinton had the Ragin Cajun and Anne Lewis and another woman whose name is slipping my memory. Obama had Stephanie Cutter and a couple of other people in his war room. When a lie came out, they attacked it full stop.

If you look at our losing campaigns, our standard bearer lie a big lie sink in, Mondale being soft on defense, Dukakis being soft on crime, Kerry not earning his Silver Star, Hillary being physically sick and unfit for office. In each case, our loser reinforced the lie with missteps, Mondale not immediately laying out his true votes on military issues, Dukakis not highlighting his record on crime in the face of a lie, Kerry not forcefully pushing back against the swift boating effort, Hillary by spending too much time off the campaign trail and going out in heat when she had the flu.

Look, our standard bearers need to go in understanding that the right is going to have cameras and video following them around to catch a mistake and blow it out of proportion. Our standard bearer need to establish an effective, tough war room, hit back hard and live on the campaign trail.

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
9. Yes, extinguish lies, but also have a Truth
Sun Dec 10, 2017, 02:21 AM
Dec 2017

I agree there needs to be strategy in dealing with Swift Boating and other dirty, cowardly Karl Rovian tricks. Republicans have degraded themselves, but we can't ignore its implications (constant swatting of BS like flies). Strategy is an essential. We could also use more kinds of fact-checking news shows, especially of an entertaining variety.

But as I ruminated above, the Democrats also need to be building their platform, their larger truth, so as to withstand such petty, obnoxius attacks over the long haul –and to inspire both its base and the voters. I would submit that the ground game, the big picture, and the strategy can all be unified by Democrats "owning" the following:

– Fact-based, INTELLIGENT positions. (and when attacked for being "liberal elites" saying "Thank you, we do believe in freedom for that in essence is what liberal means. And we ARE rooted in the liberal, searching, carefully considered, sometimes even academic thinking TRADITION. It works better than your crazy shit which is like letting loose a bull in a library&quot .

– Commitment to Democratic TRADITIONS and not being shy about it being traditional, and grounding and wise even. The public needs such stabilizing assurance. Our democratic traditions have roots in the enlightenment, science, even the Bible (as filtered through common sense since we no longer believe fathers have a right to sell their daughters into slavery or cut their wives hands off under certain conditions).

– Calling the Socialism vs Capitalism debate what it is: deadbeat, bipolar thumbsucking.

– Instead of Socialism vs Capitalism, Democrats demand INFRASTRUCTURE EMPOWERING A PEOPLE's ECONOMY.

– And Dems demand an efficient 21st century infrastructure which includes both HARD and SOFT components: the US Constitution, Courts, fair elections (with paper ballots or the equivalent), public transportation, public education, protections for unions, consumers and the environment, appropriate regulations, net neutrality, the safety net, even a universal basic income as more jobs are automated (which is also the best way to circulate money into the economy), etc.

– And such services MUST be government-informed precisely because an infrastructure is an OPERATING SYSTEM which anchors everything else. It needs public input so that the design of the system reflects the public's needs, not that of a small minority of corporations.

– With a proper infrastructure to protect people and the environment from predatory practices, Democrats fully embrace a STRONG, CREATIVE ECONOMY (and although this may seem obvious, we need to explicitly state this – and to point out that we are even better at stimulating free (and fair) enterprise than the Republicans. This is to combat their spin machine which reflexively brands Democrats "socialist." (Even Bernie repeatedly asserts he's "Democratic Socialist" for the same reason).

– We must repeatedly assert that by NOT conserving the Earth or a majority of our children, the Republicans are no longer conservative nor traditional. They are something else and it's vicious.

 

Bibluca

(63 posts)
10. I agree but
Sun Dec 10, 2017, 10:48 AM
Dec 2017

there's little we can do about mistakes made by the Dem candidates.

I'm saying we need our own grassroots group(s), whose sole purpose is to control the message. The Repubs have the huge RW echo chamber, and people who know how to use it. The also have the Russians. We have nothing like that. That's why Trump can play 100% offense, and we can only play 100% defense. A sure losing strategy for us.

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
11. Adults of Democracy
Sun Dec 10, 2017, 11:41 AM
Dec 2017

Grassroots groups to act as quick reaction teams to extinguish rumors/lies before they spread? And to help amplify the positives of local Democratic candidates? All for it.

Call me Democracy Mouse, but I'm all for people working in groups in general. It's much healthier than this solo cubicle-to-armchair cycle many are on – which wears down one's faith in any kind of democracy at all.

I also assert that we can buttress all of the Democratic candidates by backing our singular messaging (on the street and the web) with a potent grand narrative that injects ASSURANCE and adult STABILITY:

DEMOCRATS:
Rooted in democratic TRADITIONS,
Builders of a PEOPLE'S INFRASTRUCTURE,
Unleashing a NEW ECONOMY for ALL.

– Democracy Mouse

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