By the NRA's strict definition, events leading up to the massacre were a 2nd Amnd success story

[MrScorpio]

Holmes purchased everything that he wanted legally; all of his guns, ammo and equipment, without difficulty.

There was no government database alerting law enforcement on any of his purchases into a suspicious classification.

Holmes was never questioned about why he needed his weapons and 100 round cartridges by law enforcement before the slaughter.

He was able to make purchases on the internet without arousing the suspicion of the government.

Holmes was able to transport his weapons in his vehicle without government interference.

Had Holmes not killed and injured all those people in that theater, he would be free today to own and purchase as many weapons and ammo as he could afford and no one would think that it's unusual.

And most of all, in spite of this tragedy, NO POLITICIAN will lift a finger to pass ANY LAW that could bring the same kind of purchases to the attention of law enforcement in the future.

The next person who will inevitably slaughter people wholesale has either purchased his or her arsenal and ammo, or will purchase his or her arsenal and ammo, and up to the point at which he or she starts mowing people down, there's nothing out there to stop them.

The NRA has won, even if they are the last people to admit it.

[Historyprof77132]

1. Getting through to gun owners

I'm sure every one of you have had a similar experience. I am from the Texas, so saying you are even for moderate gun control puts you just left of an eco-terrorists. However, I decided, since it's my job to educate, to try, on facebook mind you, have an adult discussion about guns and posted a link to an article basically saying it was time to have the discussion over assault weapons, magazine size, etc.

Well, I was immediately attacks as being an anti-second amendment thug who wanted to take everybody's guns away. Now I finally calmed the wolves down after assuring them that I was not anti-second Amendment, since I actually knew what the amendment meant, nor was I against hunting or recreational target practice. From what I gathered from this increasingly pointless conversation as multiple gun nuts joined in is that gun owners seem to collectively believe the, and I am summarizing here, bad things happen, people will be murdered, and they will be murdered by guns, so we are just supposed to live with it and, by all means, never infringe upon their rights to own whatever weapon they want, even though you can show them proof that reasonable gun laws can help deter gun violence.

After hours and hours of arguing I finally realized as a nation we are screwed as long as these people run it (and they are in a majority, especially here) because there is no compromising with them, no getting through to them, and no changing their minds. In fact, I found that the more I referenced shootings and the more grotesque I got with the victims the more they solidified their distinct opposition to any form of control. Even to the point that, and quoting here, "its sad children died, but I'll be damned if I give up my privileges to stop it."

Lets' face it people, for some things to change some generations are going to have to die off and I think this middle age to older gun owner generation is just a group that we are never going to change and until then, this country will see more and more horrific killings. By hey, we will all pray for the victims right?

[MrScorpio]

2. Welcome to DU, Prof

Keep fighting the good fight

[GarroHorus]

5. Sounds to me you have forgotten recent history

The Assault weapon ban that went into effect in 1994 and expired in 2004 guaranteed at least one, if not two generations where absolutely no gun control legislation would make it to the floor of either house of Congress.

We are less than halfway the first generation, and it's not looking too good for the second generation given Heller.

I'd also remind you, driving a car is a privilege. According to Heller, owning a gun is a right. Big difference between what is a privilege and what is a right.

[madinmaryland]

7. Welcome to DU! And yes we are screwed as long as the NRA runs things in this

country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Welcome to DU

And it will take a few more shootings to start to register

This is generational.

[primavera]

20. Welcome to the club

I've spent more hours than I would care to admit trying to get through to gun owners, but it's not a debate particularly conducive to reason. It seems to speak to some more visceral, emotional quality about the way one views the world, pitting those who perceive the world as an inherently hostile, dog eat dog, every man for himself environment, against those who still hope for a more enlightened and evolved species.

[Historyprof77132]

21. most of these people arm themselves to the teeth

but never use their weapons! They are so paranoid an army of minorities are going to attack them, they just keep buying ammo.

[Archae]

3. Todays NRA wouldn't want any reasonable laws...

Even if someone went off like Holmes did, at an NRA convention.

[MrScorpio]

4. Bingo!

Which is why the very absence of gun control laws means there's an existential threat from the President with new gun control laws.

That's what the NRA says.

[GarroHorus]

6. Holmes' right to make all of those purchases could not be infringed under the 5th and 2nd amendments

According to Washington DC v. Heller, he had an absolute personal right to gun ownership.

Under the fifth amendment, nothing in due process was done prior to the purchase of those weapons and ammunition to deprive him of that absolute right.

[Reasonable_Argument]

8. Interesting but...

Prior to this shooting there was no reason to believe this person was dangerous. Why SHOULD he have been denied a firearm?

[GarroHorus]

9. He should not have been denied a firearm

In fact, I would defend to the death his right to purchase a firearm all the way up until a few minutes after midnight the morning of July 20, 2012.

That's how our constitution works.

[Reasonable_Argument]

10. I'm in full agreement

As tragic as this event was and as callous as it sounds, he had every right to own those weapons. If you want to prevent future tragedies then we need a serious revamp of this country's mental health system. That might not have prevented this tragedy but would go a long way in preventing future attacks.

[morningfog]

11. Sick. Even when the reality of so many death hits you in the face.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

12. It's not sick to support Constitutional rights

Up until he fired the weapons, there was nothing in his background that could or should have kept him from owning firearms.

Now, if we want to amend the Constitution to nullify the 2nd amendment, then firearms can be banned.

[morningfog]

13. We should be able to regulate so that assault weapons

are not easily obtained.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

16. Define assault weapon n/t

[Reasonable_Argument]

17. We already do

but since this wasn't an assault weapon (it's not select fire) that's not an issue that presents itself.

[baldguy]

19. The dead don't care about the trivial technical minutiae of firearms design.

They're dead.

[primavera]

22. You guys really don't see the inconsistency here, do you?

In this post, you're talking about how we restrict access to various types of firearms, and you accept it as perfectly normal. Not two posts earlier, you were raging about how the 2nd Amendment gave you the absolute right to own firearms, no mater how dangerous they were, no matter how crazy you were, and you'd fight to death to keep those guns in the hands of a homicidal maniac, right up until he used them. Which is it? Can you regulate guns or can't you? In the same breath, you guys say both and never seem to find that odd.

[smirkymonkey]

23. +1000

Winner.

[Reasonable_Argument]

14. Sadly yes

Those deaths were tragic, but don't justify an erosion of one of our fundamental rights. I'm decidedly liberal on just about every issue, except guns. I watch time and time again the left legitimately criticize the right for using emotional arguments for their causes, but those same liberals seems to have a blind spot when they do the same thing in demanding more gun control. I've been lurking this forum since college (about 7ish years ago) and see the same posts every time a tragedy happens. This time I suppose I just felt like speaking up.

[moondust]

18. Happens all the time.

On Friday the guy is a good, law-abiding citizen who is just lawfully exercising his Second Amendment rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution; on Saturday he's a mass murderer.

Nobody is born a mass murderer. The gun lobby's meme that gun owners fall into one of two distinct and totally separate categories--"law-abiding" or "criminal"--is absurd.