Washington Post: Treason in a nutshell by Seth Abramson

[Botany]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/12/06/people-cant-stop-reading-a-professors-theory-of-a-trump-russia-conspiracy-true-or-not/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_with_top_mostshared_1_na&utm_term=.b33fdcf31891

After trying for many years to expand his business empire into Russia, Abramson asserts, Trump visited Moscow in 2013 to personally meet agents of Russian President Vladmir Putin, using his beauty pageant as cover.

There, Abramson writes, a secret deal was struck: Putin agreed to open up his country’s rich real estate market to Trump, and Trump agreed to campaign for president while promoting pro-Russian policies.

Simple as that. And everything that has happened since — the election hacking, Trump’s improbable win and a special counsel’s investigation into his campaign and administration — follows from that deal, in Abramson’s telling.

snip

“The CORE NARRATIVE is simple,” as Abramson wrote in a typically styled Twitter thread over the weekend. “America was SOLD OUT by men who wanted POWER and were willing to trade U.S. POLICY to get it.”

********
Trump, "I never had any connections to Russia."

Link to tweet

[sagesnow]

1. Now how does Mueller prove it? n/t

[paleotn]

12. Funny thing about money,...

and there's always money involved in such agreements, it leaves a trail that the skilled can follow just like an old west tracker.

[onetexan]

62. yeap, follow the money

that will lead to the greedy bastard's downfall and his entire administration to implode.

[greeny2323]

3. It's a decent article on Seth's tweets

The article isn't perfect, but the national news media could no longer ignore Seth's work, which is 95% analyzing and collecting publicly available information.

[malaise]

4. They wanted way more than power

They wanted tax free wealth

[Botany]

5. This is the largest crime syndicate in history

They have
Their own country (russia)
The White House
Oil and gas
Their own hit men
Their own banks
Their own spy network
Their own media (Fox & R.T.)
Their own cyber warfare operation
The help of the Republican party and people like the Kochs and Mercers
Their own social media Facebook & Twitter
Unlimited money
Cyber and media troll to stir up shit .... example the NFL kneeling thing https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/lawmaker-russian-trolls-trying-to-sow-discord-in-nfl-kneeling-debate/2017/09/27/5f46dce0-a3b0-11e7-ade1-76d061d56efa_story.html?utm_term=.9aa8197a21b6

Putin on paper is the richest man in the world but President Obama's sanctions has tied up
much of that money as well as huge oil and gas operation too.

[L. Coyote]

9. We need more revelations of global banking, money laundering, tax evasion, ....

[Botany]

11. Trump's hotel in Azerbaijin

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-worst-deal

[dixiegrrrrl]

41. Thing is, for Trump, it was NOT a bad deal.

When you look at his M.O, he gets paid for lending his name to such enterprises, he serves as the legitimate front while his "silent partners" move the cash around, as in this story.
When the construction stops as his hotels or gulf courses or whatever he is getting paid for, he finds another shady partner.
and has been doing this since his casino days.

[malaise]

15. +1,000

[Takket]

31. the drumpf/putin crime syndicate makes Al Capone look like a bully that steals your lunch money

[Botany]

33. No doubt Putin is "the Godfather" and Trump is his Senator Geary.

Abramson's time line works out that either before or after Trump's meetings w/the Russians
in 2013 is when Putin got his "kompromat" on Trump w/the pee pee tapes. And then he (Putin)
owned him (Trump).

[sagesnow]

6. Seth also says it would be a mistake for the Democrats to impeach Trump in 2019 because

the Republicans will use the anger over his demise to get reelected to the Presidency in 2020. I think that is a real possibility. If he stays he is a lightening rod for Democrats to unseat him in 2020. That would be a much better outcome.

[Botany]

7. The man, Trump needs to be gone now

n/t

[whathehell]

10. I think he may be overestimating the

"anger" at his demise...He's only got about a 30 % percent favorability rating as it is, and frankly, I don't think the nation can afford to wait until 2020..He's been in less than a year and is already creating domestic and international havoc.

As a side note, people forget that Nixon's favorables were about the same as Trump's when he was canned, and that action saw no particular blowback.

[ginnyinWI]

19. maybe so, but so many are poisoned against the idea of a liberal

or a Democrat in office. They will vote for the other one just to prevent all those scary possibilities like "raise your taxes", "too much Washington controlled big government", "pro-abortion", "gays in our bathrooms", brown people streaming over our borders", and all the other bugaboos they always trot out every election.

So they hold their noses and vote for the GOP candidate.

[whathehell]

24. I don't believe it -- We need to remember WHO won the popular vote

and not be so cowed and intimidated by the Trump election...It was a true anomaly, IMO, one created by an unusual confluence of factors, not least of those being Russian influence.

[uponit7771]

48. +1, and red Don won some ec by 1%

[Bernardo de La Paz]

20. Yes, and underestimating anger at his staying. He has 60% disapproval. . . . nt

[whathehell]

23. Exactly...What part of "he's dangerous" do people not understand?

There may be no USA in 2020 if this asshole remains.

[getagrip_already]

28. the 32% doesn't matter....

It's the 71% that matters. That's the percent of republicans who still view him favorably.

That 71% can burn any republican at the polls. We will need (currently) 19 republican senators to vote to convict in the senate, and they won't because they know that 71% will crucify them at the polls, and later in business.

They are cowards first and last. Trump knows that and he is already bending them to his threats.

[whathehell]

29. It's the majority of the voters who matter, not

the majority of Republicans.

[better]

30. That, unfortunately, is only true in presidential elections, and even in those...

the will of the majority of voters only counts if they also constitute the majority of voters in the majority of States, as the most recent presidential election has very painfully reminded us.

In literally every other election, it is the majority of whichever party constitutes the majority of the State or district in which they are running for election that matters. And once again, it is this fact which resulted in us seating a president who lost the popular vote by a margin of three million.

[whathehell]

42. The presidential election is the one under discussion, I believe

Last edited Sun Dec 10, 2017, 04:29 PM - Edit history (1)

and last year's election was not a good example from which to draw such conclusions, being an anomaly in more ways than one. First it was only the fifth time in history a president LOST the popular vote, but won the electoral college. Prior to 2016, the most recent was Al Gore, but you have to go all the way back to Calvin Coolidge in 1888 to find even one more.
In addition, you had meddling by a foreign power in ways we are still discovering This adds up to a definite anomaly, and that makes it an unreliable basis upon which to draw conclusions for the future

[better]

54. I agree that this past election was an anomaly.

And you are of course also correct about the history of presidents being elected despite winning the popular vote. What you are overlooking, however, is that while it has only happened 5 times in our history, it has happened TWICE within the lifespan of people just now coming of age to vote, and in fact no American under the age of 40 has EVER seen a Republican win the Presidency having won the popular vote. The last time that actually did happen, I wasn't old enough to vote yet, and I'm 42. That's a trend we had better start taking seriously.

And that itself necessitates recognizing that to believe that the views of 71% of Republicans don't matter is downright dangerous, because those 71 percent of Republicans WILL determine how the electoral votes from the majority of States are cast, and very likely will also control the State legislatures of a majority of States, even if the majority of voters in those states vote blue, because the ones who vote red occupy more land mass than we do. More states having more disproportionate Republican representation means Republican control of Congress, which means they control the budget.

By all means, prioritize our objectives, but for the love of God do not ever be so foolish as to think that the majority of voters matter more than the majority of Republicans, because that quite simply is not true within the reality in which we live, no matter how clearly it should be.

[getagrip_already]

40. in this case, it does....

Because I'm not talking about a general election. The first vote I'm talking about is impeachement.

To impeach and remove a president, you need a majority of the house to indict and 2/3 of the senate to vote to convict. Right now, we don't have a simple majority in either house. It will require republican votes in both houses.

But lets assume we flip the house next fall. Ok, we can vote to proceed with impeachment hearings in the senate, but right now we need 19 republican votes to reach 67. The most we can pick up is 3, and that is if we can hold on to the other 20 D incumbants that will be up for election this cycle. There are some we could lose. Both frankel's seat and kochubar's seat will be up at the same time. Sweeping a state like MN will be tough.

So where do we get the republican votes? Right now, we can't. Trump stays in office.

The second vote is the primaries for any R coming due in 2018 or 2020. They will be slaughtered by the 71%, which is probably 90% of the base that shows up in primaries, if they don't treat trump gently.

People think the "electorate" matters to trump. It doesn't, except if he runs in 2020, which he won't in the end. He will extort as much as he can from the gop before making that decision though. He can take them down and they know it.

What matters to trump is his base. It's where his power comes from. It hasn't left him yet in numbers that will give republicans enough cover if they move against him.

[whathehell]

44. We also have the results of Mueller's investigation and

that 25th Amendment thingy... My bet is that he's going.

[getagrip_already]

59. I've said many times that I'm convinced that if he goes, it will be voluntary under 25th....

The key word there is VOLUNTARY. He can easily manipulate pence and the cabinet to do it, and with a few key calls the house and senate will go along.

Why?

First, it leaves him with the title "President". He will both be President and not president at the same time. Pence would only be the "Acting" President. So he keeps the title and a lot of the trappings like free ss protection and presumably travel and living expenses.

Second, he can play the "victim". It's the role he loves. He can sit in bed and tweet all day and nobody can touch him.

Lastly, he will be protected from impeachment. The congress won't vote to impeach if he is out on the 25th. They just won't. He is also somewhat protected from state and federal prosecution until his term ends. At which point he will have a pretty good legal defense of unfit to stand trial. Heck, if 2/3 of the house and senate said he was too unfit for office, he has a fair case, especially with all the expert witnesses he can hire.

It would be on his terms, and he can continue to beat up the country, the prosecution, and democracy while he is in neutral. He might even campaign for re-election.

[whathehell]

60. Interesting idea..

but don't you think he'd feel insulted by having to admit that he CAN'T do the job as President? I can't see his ego being able to handle that......I personally saw him going out like Nixon:. being confronted with Impeachment and choosing to resign instead.
...But who know?..As long as he goes, I'm happy.

[getagrip_already]

61. maybe.. but he a psychopath after all.....

He will as such choose the most damaging option to his enemies regardless of what it does to him.

He has bailed on all sorts of business failures, but always blamed it on someone else, and always found shelter in the process - even though it made him look bad to walk away.

This option inflicts the most pain on others, and leaves him with the most control than either getting convicted in impeachment or resigning. The only other option is he stands and fights. He isn't really a fighter, he is more of a bully and a coward.

But I'm still hoping for the ronald mcdonald solution.........

[Eyeball_Kid]

37. The scope and severity of Trumpy's crimes dwarf Nixon's.

And it looks like the coming indictments will, as matters of fact, cause more of Trumpy's base to erode into a smattering of extremists that will be too weak to respond in a meaningful way. Right now, as Mueller's work is only showing small signs of effectiveness, the ultra-right media network is screaming and stomping their feet at Mueller's imperviousness. They can't touch him, even if they're loud and becoming louder. We're probably a few indictments away from saying, "It's all over but the shouting," but we're getting closer by the day.

The right wing networks are good at wreaking havoc, but when the arrests increase and the indictments turn into trials and plea bargains, with Sean Hannity and others shown to be involved in Russia's penetration into US politics, the majority opinion in the nation will grow stronger against the now-dominant ultra-right.

It should be said that the intelligence and law enforcement communities are what will hold the nation together until the body politic can re-assert itself and govern again from the center-left, which is where the nation's people have been all along. Right now, we are in survival mode, and cannot advance any agenda until this Russia-supported right wing coup has been dissolved.

It's rather odd that left wingers like myself were, in the past, so deeply skeptical of the FBI and the intelligence community in years past. We saw them as protectors of the capitalist, internationalist establishment that built up barriers to free societies. Now, a more fundamental issue has come to the fore: the very existence of a Constitutional republic with a complement of civil rights. So, yes, we are in a position to support those who are lawfully instructed to preserve the integrity of the nation.(It's country over political party.) Once we rid ourselves of those who have taken over the executive and parts of the legislative branches of federal government, a center-left political agenda can again be approached and realized.

[peggysue2]

43. Bravo!

This is exactly right:

"It should be said that the intelligence and law enforcement communities are what will hold the nation together until the body politic can re-assert itself and govern again from the center-left, which is where the nation's people have been all along. Right now, we are in survival mode, and cannot advance any agenda until this Russia-supported right wing coup has been dissolved."

We once had the luxury of hating on the FBI, of criticizing all matter of nefarious deeds stemming from our intelligence communities. Certainly, they've made mistakes in the past and are far from perfect. They will no doubt be objects of criticism and skepticism in the future. That's the beauty of a free society.

But the irony remains: these very institutions now stand between us and political/societal chaos and destruction.

Strange times produce strange bedfellows and alliances. We need to support these institutions now, push back against those that would diminish their agency through wild accusations and propaganda.

Our survival as a Nation depends on it. Thank you for stating this so well.

[uponit7771]

47. +1, he's already started to embarrass those who voted for him

[whathehell]

49. Yes, in a major way. n/t.

[dawg day]

52. in fact, Ford lost muchly because he pardoned Nixon

Ford ran for his own term in 1976, and got a primary challenger (Reagan), and ended up losing to Carter. One reason was a strong sense of outrage that he'd given a pre=emptive pardon to Nixon.

[whathehell]

56. Yes, he came under a lot of criticism for it, then lost to Carter

in the next election....Dems need to stop running scared do much.
.Fortune favors the bold.

[tecelote]

14. By 2020, we won't recognize our country if Trump remains.

We're already in too deep. It can't happen soon enough.

[ginnyinWI]

17. If Trump deteriorates mentally so that he can't continue, then we have Pence.

And how would that affect the next Presidential election? Seems to me he, Pence, would be a weaker candidate than Trump would have been.

Either way, the outlook for 2020 looks good for Dems. Meanwhile if we win back Congressional majorities we can block or reverse a lot of the damage done so far.

It does take patience but it does seem to be the smartest way to go.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

25. Pence like Ford. Also, he might go before or with tRump. Latter would be best to thwart Ryan.

Ryan does not want to be appointed President or else he becomes Ford in 2020. He'd rather try to be Reagan in 2024. So Ryan would decline appointment to VP if Pence goes first or if Pence succeeds tRump and asks Ryan.

But it would be career suicide for him to decline if a simultaneous resignation invokes the Order of Succession. Making Pence go at the same time as Trump is the only way to put Ryan on the spot and force him into the Presidency as a lame duck. This would block his ambitions to be elected President.

[Eyeball_Kid]

39. Mueller's investigation goes way beyond Flynn and Manafort.

Pence, McConnell, Nunes, Ryan, Rohrabacher, Bannon, Priebus, Stone, Prince, Assange, Mercer, Hannity, Conway, Junior, Eric, Ivanka-- all will be indicted by Muellers team of prosecutors. This is a massive dragnet, unprecedented in national politics and law enforcement, that will generally fall under the charge, "Conspiracy against the United States." The definitive proof will always be attached to the flow of money and contracts involving money. Central to prosecutions will be money laundering, but extensions from those bodies of evidence will lead to charges of treason.

[peggysue2]

46. The scope . . .

of this investigation is truly staggering. I think we will be shocked by the number of people involved and the essence of the crime(s).

And yes, it's always a 'follow the money' pattern. In this case, the strings are everywhere, domestic and international.

The vast majority of us were asleep while this syndicate took shape, metastasized and attempted to eat us from the inside out. The panic rising now is a clear indication that those involved are feeling the pressure of the investigation, the walls closing in from all sides.

[dawg day]

53. Mean me....

I smile when I think of the Children of the Corn, I mean, Donnie, Eric, and Ivanka, and Jared too, all heading off to federal prison.

What would make me most happy would be if Donnie Jr finally turned on that un-loving dad of his, and testified against him.

Also if Ivanka had to choose between her daddy and her hubby.

It's like a reboot of Dynasty, only better. Well, Joan Collins was a lot better villainness than that robot Melania.

[JDC]

27. We should take our chances. He needs to be gone ASAP

[RandomAccess]

50. I don't know if there'll be anything left worth saving if we wait til 2020

I mean that seriously. Trump & his "appointees" are taking meat cleavers to the entire government, the environment, our international affairs, everything. Any ONE of these would be too much, but they're dismantling everything. What they're doing to the judiciary alone will sink us.

Until recently I had been very optimistic -- well, cautiously. But the destruction just goes on and on and in fact is accelerating. While Democrats busy themselves with ousting one of our strongest defenders.

I'm losing hope.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

8. Could Trump be an unregistered Agent of Russia?????????

The thought has occured to me since mid 2016 when Trump was being so soft on Putin. The tweets, the comments on the camapign trail, in Debates and interviews, all the under the table dealings, culminating with the Mueller Russia investigation. Connect the dots and follow the money.

[FakeNoose]

13. This is the case, it should show up on his tax returns

... all the more reason for Mueller to have them.

[Butterflylady]

16. My thought is

He is not only an agent, but a member of the communist party. There is something in his taxes that might prove it. Why else would he try so hard to keep them from public view.

[Botany]

18. Really?

'He is not only an agent, but a member of the communist party."

You do know that Russia is not a communist country anymore? поймите

Kак погода в Ст Петерсбург

[MFM008]

35. There are still Stalin lovers..

The old communism will never die.

[erronis]

38. But Stalin was not a communist - just a despot/tyrant who used the mantle for power

Just like most despots. tRump is not a Repuglican or even someone who thinks democracy is worthwhile.

[NBachers]

22. Is there a box labeled "Communist" that Trump needs to check on his tax forms?

Russia has not been communist since 1991.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1989

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=1U0tWqj4L4L4mAHSlKbwDA&q=when+did+russia+stop+being+communist&oq=When+did+Russia+stop&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0l4j0i22i30k1l3.1399.9304.0.12961.27.20.2.4.4.0.203.2227.0j15j1.16.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..5.22.2301.0..35i39k1j0i131k1j0i20i264k1j0i13k1j0i13i30k1.0.jrVWNxDXt6s

[whathehell]

26. ------

Russia is no longer communist and even if it was, Trump, like most of the very rich, would be the most unlikely recruit to the communist party imaginable -- He's a Super Capitalist.

[dawg day]

57. Yeah, but--

Russia is still Russia, and Putin-- who of course abandoned communism-- has the clear plan to resume the old USSR power over Eastern Europe, esp the former Soviet republics.

Communism is just an ideology, and probably most "Communists" in the USSR didn't much believe in it, and were happy to transition to oligarchy after 1992.
But the KGB is still in operation (under another name), Putin, the former spy, is still there, and they still have thousands of nukes. And they still regard the USA and Western Europe as adversaries.

It's even better now for getting "assets" like Trump, because now they can reel the capitalists in with promises of business and much money.

[whathehell]

58. Disputing the fact of Russian Communism, or DJT being a likely member of such doesn't mean

Russia isn't a bad actor or that Trump isn't or couldn't be, an asset of theirs...I just think it's important for people discussing politics to be in possession of some basic facts.
Communism isn:t "just an ideology" It's an economic system and a very different way of life than anything now going on in the world outside of a couple of countries like China and Cuba.

[Peaceful Protester]

21. Why hasn't Trump implemented the Russia Sanctions that congress has passed?

The Magnitsky Act (an American anti-corruption law)

Sanctions, known as The Magnitsky Act (an American anti-corruption law), were put into place to prevent Putin, one of the wealthiest men in the world, from accessing ill-gotten monies he has hidden in America.

Putin offered technical support, elections interference, opposition research, and a middle east nuclear reactor deal for ripping up the sanctions.

The Trump campaign worked with Putin and WikiLeaks to engage in U.S. election interference during the last presidential election for quid pro quo.

Both the house and senate voted to overwhelmingly to pass the sanctions.

• The house voted 419-3
• The senate voted 98-2

Note : October 1 was the deadline for implementation and Trump still has NOT implemented these sanctions.

needtoimpeach.com | impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org
.

[bucolic_frolic]

32. Trump traded away our environment

to oil and gas companies, foreign and domestic

The right to pollute freely is worth a LOT of money

[NastyRiffraff]

34. Follow the money was true during Watergate

and it's still true today. Trump is and always has been about money and getting it any way he can, including cheating workers and contractors, bankruptcies to avoid paying debts. So to him, conspiring with Russia isn't a big step if it involves money. If what Abramson is saying is true, it is likely treason. There are all kinds of legal issues with that charge, but at the very least it's conspiracy.

I understand the arguments against impeachment for political reasons, but for the good of the country Trump needs to go.

[Historic NY]

36. All False statements involving Donald Trump

[link:http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/|]

[lindysalsagal]

45. It's all there and so obvious: Including his surprise when he won. Remember all those

russians who turned up dead right after the election? putin always covers his trail. Suicide, falls, poison. It's all so textbook.

It's not like we don't understand how this is done. We only need the collective stones to admit we were hoodwinked by a carni barker.

[Calista241]

51. I think this is less important / significant than many here.

Trump had previously run for President in 2000. His Presidential ambitions were well known to anyone in politics, but almost none of them would believe he actually had a chance of winning.

Trump is also a billionaire, or at least perceived as one. A 1 or 5 minute courtesy call to a businessman like that while he's participating in a fairly substantial event in your own country is not out of the realm of possibility.

A comment in 2013 about events in 2016 is more pie in the sky fantasizing than real political strategy.

[canetoad]

55. K&R Thanks for the link

I love reading Seth Abramson's comments but just cannot keep focused on an eighty tweet thread.