Ammo online!

[Bonobo]

Do you people realize the absolute depths of how fucked up that is?

If this is what you see on a Democratic message board, I have to believe that America is fucked up beyond repair.

[Reasonable_Argument]

1. Well...

I've bought thousands of rounds of ammo through the mail. Please explain to me why I should be treated like a criminal.

[Bonobo]

5. I didn't say you should be treated like a criminal.

But I do say that you shouldn't be able to buy ammo online.

If you want it so bad, make a special trip.

If you are unwilling to buy it in person, it couldn't be that important to you I guess.

[Reasonable_Argument]

8. Well

frequently local gun shops don't have the caliber you're looking for or have ammunition with a heavy markup. I have no problem buying it in person, but you do realize you don't present ID even when purchasing ammunition in person right?

[Travis_0004]

13. I think a lot of people don't realize how many variations on ammo there are.

People make it sound like its easy to just go to Walmart and pick up 9mm, or .40, then call it a day.

They don't realize that there are thousands of different types of ammo, and even in the same caliber there are different bullet weights as well. Even two guns that look idential work best with different bullet weights, if the barrel twist is different.

I'm sure you realize that, but it seems like a lot of people on this site dont.

[Bonobo]

16. I can see that would be a problem, yes.

Perhaps if there was less competition online, gun stores might begin to carry a larger supply of ammo --or you could order it before hand and the gun shop could procure it for you.

As to the fact that there is no need to present ID when buying ammo, I understand that is the current situation and I think it is a mistake that should be corrected.

Carding people for liquor or cigarettes but not for gun ammo is, well, pretty much insane.

[Reasonable_Argument]

23. Putting the ID issue aside for a moment

Most gun shops are small businesses. They'll always markup what they sell, some will give you a discount if you purchase a firearm from them, but as the other poster mentioned there's literally thousands of different types of ammunition. Every gun store would have to be as large as a Walmart to carry them all and it wouldn't be economically viable even if they could. How many people do you think are going to come in asking for .303 or 7.62x54R?

[Bonobo]

27. I think the solution is that you order it ahead of time.

Getting down to your last bit of ammo? So go online and make an order to your favorite gun shop. Even if it is small, they will be able to order from a larger supplier and will be happy for the local business since you did not circumvent them by going to "1-800 GUN AMMO".

Why would that be a problem? A slight inconvenience, yes, but I think you would be happy to undergo a small inconvenience if it made the country a better place. Am I right about that?

[Reasonable_Argument]

30. Again

the markup they'd place on it would be the issue there. I can buy bulk packs of ammo for the range far far cheaper than I'd ever be able to at a store, even if they would order it, because they're a business and would want their cut. It's far cheaper to cut out the middle man.

[Scootaloo]

33. And so you contribute to the demise of local business n/t

[Reasonable_Argument]

39. That's a fair point

but it's just a matter of economics. The same reason I buy at Walmart even though I know the damage they cause to small businesses. I'm a working stiff and I have to live in a budget.

[Scootaloo]

48. Ever considered just... cutting ammo out of said budget?

I mean let's be honest, unless you're killing your own food... it's more of a luxury item. I mean hey, I don't begrudge people for indulging in luxury where they can, we all like to have fun. But... Yeah. Or maybe... I dunno, conserve ammo? We always saved new years fireworks for the 4th, when I was growing up...

[Reasonable_Argument]

51. Well

shooting is a perishable skill and it's something I enjoy. I don't buy ammo frequently due to the cost and I work too damn much to get the range as often as I like. The pricing difference between buying a bulk pack of .308 online and buying a box a the local store isn't just a small matter. It's a drastic difference in price.

[sabrina 1]

63. America's mantra: 'But it's a matter of economics'. And that is our problem right there.

Money trumps life, not just with this issue, but in every aspect of current American society.

WAR = Profit and trumps human lives

Health Care = Profit and trumps human lives.

Destruction of the Middle Class = Profit and trumps human lives

Do we have any policies where Human Life trumps profit?

Money is GOD!

Forget all the religions, many of which are also 'for profit', American's true Religion is Money and everything else takes second or third place to that all powerful God.

[Bonobo]

38. While your position is understandable...

Even the most liberal reading of the 2nd amendment doesn't guarantee your right to purchase ammo at rock-bottom wholesale prices --especially if a slightly higher price would guarantee a safer society.

So I would have to say that that argument may be reasonable sounding, but it is not going to win against my argument for a common sense approach to selling ammo that would STILL allow you to get what you want.

People pay increased costs for lots of reasons related to the common good.

[Reasonable_Argument]

41. I'd be willing to have a discussion

about whether or not ID checks for buying ammo, or signing for the package, would be a good idea. Saying it would make people safer is a bit naive though. I'm sure it would make you feel better but, if someone wants to shoot a large group of people obtaining a fake ID is fairly trivial.

[Bonobo]

46. Thank you.

I do not think it would be a 200% fix, but would add a layer of protection.

Get a fake ID, fine. But go to a gun shop and you will be subject to view by security cameras, people on the street and hopefully a responsible gun shop owner who knows how to spot the nut cases (like a dude with a red wig on for example).

Not foolproof, but a common sense approach that still doesn't infringe on the rights you claim were granted by the Constitution.

[Johnny Rico]

45. Relevant quotes:

People pay increased costs for lots of reasons related to the common good.

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.
---Robert A. Heinlein, "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress"

Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.
---Robert A Heinlein, "Time Enough For Love"

[Bonobo]

47. I think you may have revealed a bit more about your politics then you wanted.

You and I have nothing more to say to each other.

[Johnny Rico]

54. I'm sorry you find my respect for individual rights so offensive.

Oh, well...

[Scootaloo]

32. And sometimes the grocer doesn't have my Persian melons

My solution? I don't buy a Persian melon that day.

Instant gratification is a pleasant thing, but it's not necessary to your existence.

[TreasonousBastard]

53. Can't say for sure, but could ask all those countries where you would be a criminal.

[loli phabay]

2. ????? not suer what the issue is with buying it online

i get a good deal from my local dealer so i am okay, but if you live to far away or its more expensive why not buy it online. We buy everything else online so why not ammo.

[Bonobo]

3. Simple. No verification of identity. Too easy. nt

[loli phabay]

4. shitloads of stuff can be bought online without ID by people who are too young or shouldnt be buying

it, i would have no problem with have a frequent buyer card that means your verified.

[Bonobo]

6. I don't think a frequent buyer card would be sufficient.

As to your "shitloads of stuff can be bought online without ID by people who are too young or shouldnt be buying" --this is true.

But you can't cause 71 casualties in 5 minutes with a dildo or even a taser.

[loli phabay]

9. why wouldnt it be sufficent, you have me in your system im verified you know its me

wasnt your issue with not knowing who is buying ammo.

[Bonobo]

11. Someone could have taken your card, no?

And when it is sent through the mail, where is the guarantee that it will be YOU picking it up?

Even being stolen in the mail system is a potential problem that is not worth betting an innocent's life on.

[loli phabay]

26. okay they took my card ordered 1000 rounds that according to my details will be delivered to my hous

the fed ex guy will call me to meet him at the main road and i will pick it up, so suddenly i am getting 1000 rounds that the guy who stole my card ordered for free. win win.

[Bonobo]

50. Well a poster just below said that a box of ammo was left in the open garage

by fedex.

But I see your point. I think the card idea you came up with could be tweaked to work, but unfortunately there are few "gun rights" people who would acquiesce to even that amount of trouble.

[loli phabay]

55. well ive had fedex leave stuff at the bottom of my driveway, sat there for a week before i drove by

it happens, wouldnt be too hard to have a rule they must hand it to you i suppose.

[Johnny Rico]

7. If I buy it at a store there's no verification of identity. If I buy it at a gun show there's

no verification of identity...so what difference does it make if I buy it online?

[Bonobo]

10. Order it online, fine.

But you should have to pick it up in person, after showing ID and after a thorough background check.

It is only common sense.

Keep your guns, Johnny, but you have to tell us what you need them for if you want to be a good neighbor.I can't imagine why that might be a problem for a responsible person.

People around you have the Constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness and that includes not getting shot.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. No state in the US requires a background check for ammunition

[Johnny Rico]

19. There's no Federal requirement for that whatsoever.

But you should have to pick it up in person, after showing ID and after a thorough background check.

It is only common sense

It's not the law, though, nor is there any reason to think it's going to be.

Keep your guns, Johnny, but you have to tell us what you need them for if you want to be a good neighbor.

I "have" to?

[loli phabay]

22. okay dude i have my guns to hunt, kill varmints and stop the 1 in a million interloper into my house

signed youir neighbour.

[Johnny Rico]

28. Since you were so kind, I'll reciprocate.

The reason I have my guns is that I wanted to own them.

And that's enough of a reason for anyone.

[loli phabay]

34. yup but think of the fun you could have writing you reasons to your neighbour and their replys

dear neighbour i have guns due to the impending zombie apocalypse, please be advised that in this event you are not welcome. or neighbour i have guns due to my belief in the groundhog plan to take over our nation. you could have a good time writing back and forth your reasons. In my neioghbourhood i just presume everyone has gones and going by the weekend gunfire i dont think i would be wrong.

[jp11]

12. The law doesn't require any verification of identity to purchase ammo

so the only issue is that an adult receives it which is part of the shipping requirement ie the carrier, USPS, Fedex, UPS have to get an adult to sign for the package.

What you are talking about is something that is legal and has the necessary restrictions in order to keep it so just as alcohol and medication purchased online require an adult or person over 21 for the former to receive them.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. In most places no ID is required whether in person or not

When I mail order ammo to CA from some catalogs I have to show ID and be over 21 when I pick it up at UPS.

[Bonobo]

18. Yes, yes, I have heard that ad nauseum here. It should be changed.

Be honest for a moment would you? Do you think it reasonable to ask for ID for liquor or cigarettes but not for gun ammo?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. Only if there is a question of age

It is a legal commodity that can be sold over the counter to adults.


I have not been carded in 40+ years...

[TreasonousBastard]

57. Well, not booze or cigarettes, so there is a line somewhere.

[Ruby the Liberal]

60. Sure you can.

I needed Everclear to clean something once, and as it isn't legal where I live, I bought it online from Utah or Colorado or somewhere out west. They delivered it via UPS to where I was working at the time. Had a fun time explaining that one. Heh.

[TreasonousBastard]

62. OK, but laws about this kind of stuff vary from state to state and...

not only do they change all the time, not everyone knows, or cares, what the law is.

Vineyards were screaming for years about internet wine sales, which I now see ads for. Vineyards wanting to sell online were all for it, and those worried about online sales killing their local sales were agin' it, while the states were looking at taxes. 'Twas illegal for years, but now, who knows... The guy who sold you the rotgut... who knows if it was legal or not, and if he didn't get caught, who cares? Indian cigarette sales the same thing-- states try to kill it off because of huge revenue losses, but the tribes keep selling until the Sheriff shuts them down.

My point was that you can make internet sales illegal if you want to. See what happens when you try to buy dynamite online.

[moondust]

14. According to some reports, Norway killer Anders Breivik

bought his hollow-point bullets and some 30-round clips from a U.S. supplier(s), presumably online. Details are kind of hard to find, suggesting possible suppression or downplaying of the story in the U.S.

[Bonobo]

21. Then, in a reasonable world, the person that sold it and even the US as a whole

Should be held responsible in an international court of justice.

[moondust]

37. Right.

But where is this "reasonable world" of which you speak?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

44. You consider collective guilt a reasonable thing?

[loli phabay]

49. thats what i took from that as well, just couldnt find the words.

[Bonobo]

56. Let's cal it "collective responsibility"

In a democracy, you are responsible for the laws written in your name.

If an arms dealer in Iran sold a missile to Cuba that was used to attack the US, you do not think that the Iranian government would be held accountable?

[GarroHorus]

20. Don't like the fact that ammo can be bought online, THEN DON'T BUY AMMO ONLINE!

Problem solved.

Don't take away somebody else's right because you're so fucking scared of the world you piss your pants.

[Bonobo]

24. Good lord.

Are you 10 years old or just have the brain development of a 10 year old?

Obviously it is an issue that concerns people because it affects the lives of even those that choose not to purchase ammo online.

Think for a minute before you run off your mouth. That was a really stupid argument.

[Bonobo]

31. Sounds a lot like a threat.

Bye bye.

[GarroHorus]

36. The only threat I see are to constitutional rights by extremists scared shitless

I'm not afraid.

[Tallulah]

35. I had ammo delivered today

Fed Ex, didn't sign for it, was left in my open garage. I saw the box when I went outside in the early afternoon.

[Johnny Rico]

40. It wasn't signed for after a thorough background check? Oh, the horror!

Alert the FBI! Call Homeland Security! Someone get the Ghostbusters!

[Bonobo]

43. You lost the argument so go straight to the Limbaugh-like mocking. Fail.

You have not given a reasonable explanation as to why it would impede your "rights" for their to be a few common sense regulations on the sale of ammo.

You lost, Johnny. Now take it like a man.

[Johnny Rico]

52. I make a joke, so you accuse me of acting like Limbaugh. Fail.

You have not given a reasonable explanation as to why it would impede your "rights" for their to be a few common sense regulations on the sale of ammo.

Common sense as defined by whom? You? BTW, it's very telling that you feel the need to put a Constitutional right in quotes...

You lost, Johnny. Now take it like a man.

I lost just because you asserted it? That is funny! Thank you for giving me a laugh as I head to bed!

[Bonobo]

42. A box of ammo in an open garage. How could anyone see a problem with that? nt

[Marinedem]

58. I buy ammo online because:

1. Selection. There isn't a place within 100 miles that stocks what I need.

2. Price. The shop in town will occasionally get in a case or two of .223 I would like to purchase. For 3 times the market price. No fucking thank you.

One distributor I order from often requires a scan of a state drivers license to be on file with them before they ship your ammo. I have no problem with that system.

Really, I see no problem with ordering it online. Whats the difference between that and going to Wal-Mart?

[HopeHoops]

59. FUBAR

[ileus]

61. I recommend ammoengine

You really have to watch out for shipping charges. You'll find a great deal on ammo then they'll try and slip in crazy steep shipping charges.

I've found for my plinking and hunting purposes just buying at wally world is fine and dandy.


If you shoot in bulk then online is the only answer unless you have a dealer that you're pretty good friends with.


www.ammoengine.com