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Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:03 PM

The Gathering Storm

“Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest do not happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.”
Herodotus


On Thursday evening (December 14), the internet had a buzz about Team Mueller being prepared to file indictments on Friday morning. A curious guessing game took place: would it be Jared? Or perhaps Donald Junior? Such speculation was even found on DU:GD. And, not surprisingly, the morning passed without incident.

This raises the question of how and why this type of thing happens. The first factor, of course, is that many people recognize that Trump & Co. conspired and coordinated with Russian intelligence (and organized crime) to steal the 2016 election, and want these criminals held responsible. Mr. Mueller first indicted two members of the Trump campaign, and secured a guilty plea from a third. Then, Mr. Mueller flipped General Flynn. Thus, the increasing fury of the right wing republican attempt to derail the investigations – including in the House and Senate, as well as Mr. Mueller's.

Malcolm X used to say he knew he was right when his opposition squawked the loudest. Common sense suggests that the White House and their rabid supporters are aware that the Mueller investigation is getting very close to Trump and his closest associates. A good person could reasonably conclude the volume of their noise is because they believe more indictments are being prepared.

However, an informed person would remember that there was no warning before the first two indictments and the guilty plea were filed. Mr. Mueller does not leak to journalists. The information regarding General Flynn reported before he pleaded guilty came from Flynn's legal team. This is important, as Mr. Mueller had requested that no information be made public, before his team was able to verify literally every claim Flynn made, and every document he had produced.

From that time until now, Mr. Mueller's team has been interviewing people such as Hope Hicks, who had to decide if she should confirm what Flynn said about various campaign and White House meetings, or try to outsmart Mr. Mueller. She is not the only other witness the investigators have interviewed. And one can only speculate who, if anyone, has recently testified in front of the grand jury.

In the coming weeks, Mr. Mueller's team will request interviews with other people close to Trump. And Mr. Mueller will present more witnesses to the grand jury. It is likely that at least four of these will invoke their 5th amendment right to not answer questions. But it is equally likely that at least two others will spill their guts. And it is certain that Mr. Mueller's team, having already had some contact with the legal representatives of all seven, are fully aware what each will do. But their lawyers are not going to leak anything that Mr. Mueller has requested they remain silent about.

It is possible – even likely – that there may be some fascinating leaks from members of the intelligence community in the upcoming weeks. There is a system that was set up for this long ago, as everyone who has paid attention since the early 1970s knows. And this system is capable of putting groups and individuals outside of the White House in check.

And so now we come to those who started or spread rumors about a new indictment. The majority are probably good people, who sincerely want to see the Trump administration removed from power, and incarcerated. Younger people in particular might be prone to wanting things wrapped up immediately (compared to older folks who remember Watergate and Iran-contra).

Still others might be internet journalists who got ahead of themselves with their predictions. They know that there is a storm brewing, and can be forgiven for thinking that today would bring fireworks. But keep in mind that none of the corporate journalists had predicted anything for today.

Finally, be aware that there are rat-fuckers, intent upon creating confusion and worse. This includes those who purposely spread false rumors on the internet, because they know it can be like a penal institution, where any rumor twice repeated is accepted as fact. Their purpose can include getting good people's hopes up, thus causing disappointment with Mr. Mueller when the anticipated indictment fails to be filed.

Lastly, I should again recommend that people listen closely to Malcolm Nance. Recently, he said he expects things to unfold by March. (This is not unlike when, in a recent OP, I said that the DU community will find February to be a rewarding month.) There may be good things happening between now and then, too. For Mr. Mueller is a conscientious historian and prosecutor,

Peace,
H2O Man

68 replies, 6036 views

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Arrow 68 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Gathering Storm (Original post)
H2O Man Dec 2017 OP
dhol82 Dec 2017 #1
regnaD kciN Dec 2017 #14
dhol82 Dec 2017 #18
H2O Man Dec 2017 #19
Iahotdog Dec 2017 #2
H2O Man Dec 2017 #20
pbmus Dec 2017 #3
Hortensis Dec 2017 #21
H2O Man Dec 2017 #22
AJT Dec 2017 #4
H2O Man Dec 2017 #23
drray23 Dec 2017 #53
H2O Man Dec 2017 #54
drray23 Dec 2017 #55
H2O Man Dec 2017 #57
coeur_de_lion Dec 2017 #67
roamer65 Dec 2017 #5
H2O Man Dec 2017 #28
babylonsister Dec 2017 #6
H2O Man Dec 2017 #29
babylonsister Dec 2017 #40
H2O Man Dec 2017 #52
Hekate Dec 2017 #7
H2O Man Dec 2017 #30
Hekate Dec 2017 #65
James48 Dec 2017 #8
H2O Man Dec 2017 #31
ProfessorGAC Dec 2017 #42
orangecrush Dec 2017 #9
H2O Man Dec 2017 #32
coeur_de_lion Dec 2017 #10
H2O Man Dec 2017 #33
SHRED Dec 2017 #11
H2O Man Dec 2017 #34
CaliforniaPeggy Dec 2017 #12
H2O Man Dec 2017 #35
2naSalit Dec 2017 #64
burrowowl Dec 2017 #13
H2O Man Dec 2017 #36
spanone Dec 2017 #15
H2O Man Dec 2017 #37
kentuck Dec 2017 #16
H2O Man Dec 2017 #38
kentuck Dec 2017 #41
H2O Man Dec 2017 #43
HAB911 Dec 2017 #17
H2O Man Dec 2017 #44
Hortensis Dec 2017 #24
H2O Man Dec 2017 #45
The_jackalope Dec 2017 #25
H2O Man Dec 2017 #47
myrna minx Dec 2017 #26
H2O Man Dec 2017 #48
annabanana Dec 2017 #27
H2O Man Dec 2017 #49
FakeNoose Dec 2017 #39
H2O Man Dec 2017 #50
FakeNoose Dec 2017 #66
malaise Dec 2017 #46
H2O Man Dec 2017 #51
sellitman Dec 2017 #56
H2O Man Dec 2017 #58
samnsara Dec 2017 #59
H2O Man Dec 2017 #60
CTyankee Dec 2017 #61
H2O Man Dec 2017 #62
Me. Dec 2017 #63
lucca18 Dec 2017 #68

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:09 PM

1. Just hope that March is no too late.

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:27 AM

14. This illuminates the drastic difference between Watergate and now...

In the latter, it took over a year between McCord spilling the beans in his letter to Judge Sirica and Nixon's eventual resignation (and over two years from the initial break-in)...but Congress was controlled by Democrats at the time, and so there was gridlock except on the basics of keeping the country running throughout that period. Now, we've got a "working partnership" between Trump and the Republican Congressional majority on measures that will cause irreparable damage to the country, and those measures will continue full-speed-ahead for the duration, no matter the degree of public disapproval. If it takes over a year from Mueller's appointment to Trump's removal, it may take a generation or more to ameliorate what will have been done to this country in the interim.

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 09:09 AM

18. Exactly.

We may never dig out from the hole that is being dug.

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 09:17 AM

19. Right.

Good points. Thank you.

The legislative branch was severely and purposely damaged in the 1990s by Newt & Co. The judicial branch proved to be as damaged as we thought with its Bush v Gore ruling in 2000. Both branches are in worse shape today ....thus, as you accurately note, the republicans are exploiting their opportunity to inflict as much systematic damage as possible upon the nation.

There is also the very real possibility that Trump will seek to create an "emergency" situation, by sparking a war with North Korea. That would, of course, create problems beyond what Congress and/or the courts can do.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:10 PM

2. Wise words!

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Response to Iahotdog (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 09:24 AM

20. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:11 PM

3. My question is whether the country can stay together that long...

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Response to pbmus (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 09:27 AM

21. Except, our country's not going anywhere. We WILL live with

what it is next year and thereafter. Most of us would. I'm not sure about a lot of those who can't live without dialysis for instance.

I think our institutions will endure and we'll bring ourselves through this, but shockingly maybe not.

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Response to pbmus (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 09:30 AM

22. Valid question.

I am hoping it can, but I have my doubts.

Thank you.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:22 PM

4. The investigation will not be allowed to continue for much longer.

March will be too late.

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Response to AJT (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 09:32 AM

23. Respectfully disagree.

To "stop" the investigation, Trump would have to fire the assistant Attorney General, Mr. Mueller, and 14 more top FBI senior staff. That won't happen.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 10:52 AM

53. He can just say he fires mueller

And insist he has the right to do so. This may end up tied in court but it will take months to unfold.

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Response to drray23 (Reply #53)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 10:53 AM

54. No, he can't.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #54)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 10:56 AM

55. Im not sure you pay attention to how Trump behaves.

It does not matter if this is not legal. he will attempt it anyway and repeat it enough to rile up his base. It will take going to court to stop him and this will buy him time. functioning within the parameters of what is normal or legal is not something that is of concern to Trump.

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Response to drray23 (Reply #55)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 11:05 AM

57. One of my favorite

Mark Twain quotes says that the problem in the world is not one of ignorance, it's of people knowing so much that just ain't so.

Only Assistant Attorney General Rosenstein can fire Mr. Mueller. And he is limited to doing so for just cause. More, Rosenstein, who is in very close contact with Mr. Mueller, has made clear that Mr. Mueller's investigation is going strictly by the law.

I think I pay as close attention to Trump as anyone on this forum. Plus, I've had plenty of experience dealing with his type in the forensic mental health groups I used to run, and in some of my decades of experience in politics. Obviously, Trump & Co do not think the law applies to him. Hint: that's what, by no coincidence, Mr. Mueller is investigating.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #57)

Mon Dec 18, 2017, 08:36 PM

67. Hear hear!

Maybe the reason Trump has said he won't fire Mueller is because he knows he can't.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:28 PM

5. It may be nearing time to reconvene the Hartford Convention of 1814.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 09:59 PM

28. It may be......

My younger son recently referred to the USA as a "melting pot." I said that concept has never been accurate. At best, its a "tossed salad." And the tensions between various groups seems to be growing, particularly as a portion of white people in the southeast reflect the fossilized thinking of Patrick Buchanan.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 12:09 AM

6. From your lips if not before.

I hang out with my almost 90 year old dad daily. He's a diehard Dem, and is anxious to hear good news!

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:00 PM

29. Thank you!

If you ever think of it, tell your Dad I said hello. And that he did a great job as a father.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 08:38 AM

40. Whoa!

Thank you, kind sir!

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 10:51 AM

52. While I do not

need to be thanked for telling the truth, you are certainly welcome.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 01:00 AM

7. So

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Response to Hekate (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:01 PM

30. Thank you!

How are you & yours doing?

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 02:45 PM

65. Hubby and I are back in our house; but the fire spread to the next county and our kids ...

...are evacuated. Our son wants to return to his house immediately, but our daughter took her kids down the coast to relatives for better air.

The fire is a monster -- Right now its progression seems to be in abeyance in the Santa Barbara area, but the Santa Ana winds are up again, which is always bad.

Our house here in Ventura, miraculously, is unhurt. The oak out back has burn marks on the trunk facing the house, but it is 150 to 200 years old and has doubtless survived brush fires before this. It's my first oak tree, so I'm trying to remember what I know about California oaks and fire. I think what kills them is crown fires. Well, that and infestations.

Whole neighborhoods have been wiped out not far away, and we lost just one house in ours. The hillsides surrounding us are burned over, landscaping has sustained relatively minor damage in every yard -- but I think the avocado farm down the hill is probably okay because they stay well-watered. The bird-of-paradise flower farm down the hill is completely burned over, truck a twisted skeleton, an outbuilding gone too, but perhaps the plants can grow back from the roots because they are so hardy. I hope so.

It's been stressful and I am still worried about my kids, but we are fine.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 01:05 AM

8. Beware the Ides of March

K&r

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Response to James48 (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:03 PM

31. Thanks!

Let's hope Jared is charged, and facing hail-time. That would make way for Trump to resign, to spend more time with Ivanka.

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Response to James48 (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 09:05 AM

42. That Would A Great Anniversary Present

My wife & I got married on the Ides or March in 1980!
We'd love an anniversary present like this!!!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 01:06 AM

9. Outstanding post!

Kick and rec.

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Response to orangecrush (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:03 PM

32. Thanks, orangecrush!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 01:06 AM

10. Rumors rumors

I should have realized Mueller never telegraphs his intentions.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:04 PM

33. "Rumors"

remains a favorite LP of mine. And Mr. Mueller is currently my favorite prosecutor.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 01:38 AM

11. Correct me if I'm wrong but...

 

...I read somewhere that they cannot plead the fifth before a Grand Jury.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:06 PM

34. If a person

has been granted immunity (or has been pardoned), they cannot plead the fifth. Otherwise, they can.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 02:13 AM

12. My dear H20 Man, your thinking is so clear and unambiguous...

It's elegant in the way it presents the facts.

It's like a chain whose links are loose for the moment, but as time passes, they straighten out and then...

They tighten and all becomes clear.

Thank you for your great analysis.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:09 PM

35. Well, thank you!

I always hope that my contributions to this forum add something of value. If I have any talent, I suppose that it might be taking the same facts that we all know, but putting them in a slightly different sequence that brings some different focus into view. And I always appreciate your kindness!

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 12:24 PM

64. +1!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 02:19 AM

13. Excellent piece!

You are following in the footsteps of Herodotus!

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Response to burrowowl (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:16 PM

36. Thanks, Buddy!

As you know, I was fascinated with "politics" since an early age. Having four older siblings helped spark that. And even today, nothing makes me happier than studying the political and social struggles of the 1950s and '60s, then the Watergate era, right through today. And that includes a heck of a lot of good, and of bad. Thus, I recognize that much of what took place then, takes place now. It's just that we all have greater technology -- including a shithead like Roger Stone. (Not trying to start a rumor about Roger's current rat-fucking!)

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 08:18 AM

15. K&R...

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Response to spanone (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:16 PM

37. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 08:22 AM

16. Thanks!

For correcting the defects.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:22 PM

38. Thank you.

There is an important sociological dynamic found in groups: in general, they are more likely to act out negatively when their hopes have been raised, followed by disappointment, than if the group is slowly and consistently pushed down. And there are operatives who are fully aware of this. They are not our friends.

(That same dynamic is being experienced within the rabid right-wing of the republican party, those who believed Trump would bring back the 1950s. That is what frightens the more moderate republicans. People like the Bannonites are willing to destroy more than their party.)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 08:48 AM

41. It is puzzling to me how they seem unable to distinguish between fact and fiction.

It seems that they believe partisan "lies" are the same as the "truth"?

It is a very dangerous condition, in my opinion.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 10:37 AM

43. Yes, you are correct.

They cannot tell the difference between the truth and lies. And it is very dangerous.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 08:29 AM

17. THIS

an informed person would remember that there was no warning before the first two indictments and the guilty plea were filed

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Response to HAB911 (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 10:38 AM

44. Thank you.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 09:34 AM

24. Thanks for a sensible summary, H2O.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 10:38 AM

45. Thank you, Hortensis

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 09:35 AM

25. The flames of rumor were apparently fanned by a malignant outbreak of Russian bot-ulism. nt

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Response to The_jackalope (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 10:40 AM

47. Ha!

Spread by rodents of the Roger Stone ilk.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 02:01 PM

26. I haven't been here in some time, but I wanted to log in to say thank you.

Wonderful insights as always.

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Response to myrna minx (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 10:41 AM

48. Thanks!

Sending a DU e-mail....

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 06:39 PM

27. Love the way you take the crazy and put its feet back on the ground.. . .n/t

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Response to annabanana (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 10:45 AM

49. Thanks!

I am fluent in both sanity and insanity!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:24 PM

39. We were warned a few months ago, there would be false "leaks" and fake news galore

We have to be patient and trust Mr. Mueller. I believe at least some of these fake "leaks" are being planted by Bannon and Breitbart (maybe Faux News too) because they're trying very hard to discredit the standard professional news outlets. Every time a professional journalist makes a mistake or gets something wrong, it's another chance for the right-wingers to scream bloody murder. It's another opportunity to reduce our faith in America's free press.

There's so much riding on this and they all know it. I think that 95% of our reporters, journalists and pundits have been doing an outstanding job this year. (My opnion of their work last year is quite the opposite, but moving on...)

The rumors and leaks are not coming from Mueller, that much we know. I lived through Watergate and I'm prepared to place my trust in Mr. Mueller and his group. Even if he should be fired, his compadres on that team are ready to pick up where he left off. But let's hope that doesn't happen.




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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #39)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 10:49 AM

50. Thanks, FakeNoose!

I remember the evening when Nixon finally resigned in disgrace. My brother and I were making a tape (cassette) to send to friend Rubin Carter. I was convinced that the United States would never, ever, elect another common criminal to the presidency. Holy cow, was I wrong!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #50)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 08:47 PM

66. I hear you!

Never say never, I guess that's our new motto.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 10:40 AM

46. Wasaway for a few days

Just read this -thanks bro.

Nailed it - as usual.

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Response to malaise (Reply #46)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 10:50 AM

51. Thank you!

Glad that you are back.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 11:03 AM

56. Your Sir are a reason DU is such a great place

Thank you for all you do. Great piece.

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Response to sellitman (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 11:07 AM

58. Thank you

very much! That is very nice of you.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 11:07 AM

59. i guess i missed the hub bub about the possible 12-14-17 indictments...

...which means my planned escape from the 21st century is working...Now back to watching Bonanza and then Gunsmoke....

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Response to samnsara (Reply #59)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 11:11 AM

60. Both are

good shows. I heard someone on TV say that Roy Moore was like a character on True Detectives, season one.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 11:19 AM

61. I am very wary ever since Fitzmas. I remember it, not for those involved, but for the

utter exhiliaration we liberals had at the time. We are "caught in that sensual music" (with apologies to W.B. Yeats)...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #61)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 11:30 AM

62. Right.

I was confident that Libby would break, and Cheney be charged and convicted. And Patrick had enough evidence, without Scooter, that he might have charged Cheney. But he determined that it didn't reach the level of certainty required for a conviction. I disagreed at the time. But he did offer to provide Congress with all of the evidence, which should have led to Cheney's impeachment, but very, very few in the House or Senate were interested in pursuing the case.

There is, in my opinion, more reason to think that Mr. Mueller will (and is) focused on Trump. Yet, there remains a possibility that he could opt to make a report, and send it to Congress to evaluate a potential impeachment. While I do not believe that is the path he is taking, it can't be ruled out at this time.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Dec 17, 2017, 12:16 PM

63. Comforting

"There is a system that was set up for this long ago, as everyone who has paid attention since the early 1970s knows. And this system is capable of putting groups and individuals outside of the White House in check"

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 18, 2017, 09:02 PM

68. Thank you H20 Man.

Words of wisdom.

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