30,000+ traffic deaths per year, 1/3 are alcohol-related.

[Tejas]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year


Those figures are not acceptable, let's try and use more caution on the roadways. Don't need any new laws, don't need to ban cars, don't need to ban booze, just need to be considerate as we motor along.

[valerief]

1. Now that you've said it, that'll work.

[DrDan]

2. cars have worthwhile purposes, unlike . . ..

[Marengo]

3. Unlike what?

[Tejas]

6. Unlike...........................................DISCO?

YEAH, I SAID THAT!

[Marengo]

49. And cars blasting disco definately have no worthwhile purpose

[Crabby Appleton]

16. Alcohol

on average 30 people per day in the US die in alcohol related traffic accidents.

Reinstate the Volstead Act!

[hack89]

15. Does alcohol have a worthwhile purpose?

it kills a lot of people besides drunk driving incidents. It is also a huge factor in domestic violence and child abuse.

[DrDan]

20. no worthwhile purpose when coupled with a car - I agree completely

or handling a gun . . . right?

[hack89]

23. Handling guns is a serious business

but like cars I assume the vast majority of Americans are responsible with guns.

[cliffordu]

33. AND GUN VIOLENCE!!!

[hack89]

44. So concentrating on alcohol will save many more lives. nt

[cliffordu]

73. A lot more, if the past is any indication.

[Edweird]

35. Hm, if the OP is correct 1/3 of 30,000 is 10,000 - which I believe is the amount of people killed

by other people with guns.... Tell me, what 'worthwhile purpose' do drunk drivers serve?

[DrDan]

39. did I ever say they had a worthwhile purpose?

i

[Edweird]

48. That's what I thought.

[DrDan]

54. so you are of the opinion that drunk drivers serve a worthwhile purpose . . . interesting

[Edweird]

59. Nope. I'm of the opinion that people that look at those numbers and condemn guns are hypocrites.

[DrDan]

60. I am condemning guns - as are many many here - just take a look

[4th law of robotics]

36. What's the "worthwhile" purpose of alcohol as a beverage?

Seems it's simply a recreational poison, nothing more.

Sure it's well ingrained in our culture and widely available. But if we ban it people will stop seeking it out and all problems associated with alcohol will disappear.

It's not even a right so we could totally pass some sort of Prohibition against it. I'm not sure what we'd call it though . . .

[DrDan]

41. ban it . . . I am not arguing against that

[4th law of robotics]

42. If we ban it will we finally be safe?

[DrDan]

47. of course not . . . there will still be guns

[4th law of robotics]

50. Going by the numbers

we should ban a sedentary lifestyle, unhealthy foods, incompetent doctors, cigarettes, and stress long before we get to guns.

Let's work on eliminating fat people first. Then we can work our way back to guns.

[DrDan]

52. fat people are a danger to themselves, not to the rest of us

lets just go ahead and start with the guns

[4th law of robotics]

55. And their kids

don't forget the kids.

Which then brings us back to driving. Far more of a danger than guns. Ban it.

[DrDan]

57. at least there are worthwhile reasons to own and use an auto

and simply being fat is not a danger to their kids, unless they happen to roll over onto them

[4th law of robotics]

61. Really?

You honestly are unaware of the correlation between unhealthy parents and unhealthy children?

It's not about squashing them. It's about giving them "adult onset" diabetes, among other ailments.

[DrDan]

75. ok - I concede with respect to fat parents

let's start with guns . . . then move to the unhealthy parents

[CTyankee]

43. You might want to tell the French or the Italians or the Spanish about how their wine is a

recreational poison. I'm sure their culture will respond accordingly...sigh...dear god...

sometimes I wonder how much more moronic we could look to the rest of the world...

[4th law of robotics]

45. Sarcasm dude

notice the capitalized P in prohibition?


/and regardless of the cultural artifacts around it alcohol as it stands is an organic poison that we take for recreational purposes. To get drunk, to socialize, to embrace a common culture, etc. It isn't an essential element of life.

[CTyankee]

53. Oh dear, you've never been to Europe?

"Dude," they don't drink like we do over there...Americans either love to hate it or just want to drink until stupor. Europeans don't understand American tourists who go to their respective countries and get wasted on their wine. They think there is something the matter with us.

I think they are right.

[4th law of robotics]

56. ?

Are you arguing that it is not a recreational event for them? That they must drink wine or die?

Recreation: is an activity of leisure, leisure being discretionary time.

Recreation =/= (necessarily) getting hammered.

And on top of that your assessment is wrong.

You feel americans are stupid louts who just get drunk all the time and Europeans are sophisticated drinkers. Ok. They drink a lot more than we do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption

And abusing alcohol is a major problem in many parts of Europe (UK for instance, and all former soviet nations). You seem to have confused the positive stereotypes about one nation (france) with the reality of an entire continent.

[CTyankee]

62. Yes, I am arguing that. In fact, your statement accurately states the problem right there.

Wine is drunk with food. It is part of their diet and they wouldn't dream of living without it. I've been in little restaurants in tiny towns in Umbria and Tuscany where the wine is so "local" it's from the back "vineyard" grown right along with every other thing they can possibly grow fresh!

Get a clue and begin to enjoy! These are people who have cultivated the vine for a thousand years, way before we were here in the U.S. They drink wine with their food, not to "get hammered." They think Americans are strange to think that.

Hey, come to one of these countries and just look around and see the people and how they live. You will get a wonderful education. You won't get drunk because nobody around you will. You'll eat great food, drink great wine and feel just fine the next day (no sulfites).

[4th law of robotics]

63. Don't know how to say this but you're wrong

you've boiled down your one nice vacation in some rural town in France/Italy to describe an entire continent.

Europeans actually do . . . wait you'd better sit down for this . .. ok europeans actually do get drunk! There I said it.



Also just because you "wouldn't dream" of living without something doesn't mean it isn't recreational. A lot of people wouldn't dream of living without a TV. That is still recreational.

I'm not even sure what your argument here is. Wine is an essential element of life? Or the europeans are incapable of getting drunk?

Either of those is simply an attempt at derailment.

[CTyankee]

65. Well, your own chart will show you how far down the list Italy and France are. Spain does not

appear there on your chart. And it is only about "students." I didn't talk to students. I talked to adults who were working and living in those towns. Also in cities...places like Paris, Rome, Florence, Bologna (I nearly fainted at the selections in a cafeteria there fer gods sake), Madrid, Barcelona,Bilbao, Lisbon, Porto, Verona, Venice, Turin, Milan...I was also in the Netherlands last fall but I did not see anybody drunk (they were slightly high in Amsterdam because of another substance, but that is a different subject).

But why don't you check it out for yourself? what's the harm? You eat great food, drink great wine, see great art and culture and architecture. What do you have to lose?

[4th law of robotics]

66. So you're one of those Americans who thinks Europe = Italy/France/Spain

there is more to it you know?

Also I have been to Europe.

I saw stumbling drunk people(natives, not American tourists which I know you were going to assume), social drinkers, and people who didn't drink at all. Kinda like here. Saw one lady in switzerland nearly passed out in the street flipping off pedestrians and yelling in what I think was german (ie not an American). This was around 10 in the morning.

Your belief in the magical sophisticated european is not supported by evidence.

[CTyankee]

67. Wow, I never saw that. I just saw ordinary people going about their ordinary routine.

My "evidence" is how many years and trips I have taken there and how many cultures I have observed. Not from a cruise ship or a tour bus but from actually walking around the towns and cities. I must have encountered a whole different stratum of society in those cities I listed (I've been to them all).

Tell me, tho: besides the Swiss woman, were they all germanic, northern, Scandinavian or British Isles? I have not been to England for many, many years and I have never been to the Scandinavian countries. I will be in Belgium in October so I can report my first hand experience there after that.

[DrDan]

58. if they ever examine our obsession with guns, they will be sure of it

[CTyankee]

64. I don't talk about guns with Europeans when I am there because I am too embarrassed.

I'll be in Belgium in October and I doubt I'll have a conversation about it, although I might. About a year ago in Paris I talked with a Parisian about the head scarf controversy raging there at the time. We only talked about our version and the French version of the "rights of man." It was pretty interesting...

[DrDan]

74. yep - John Wayne always seems to get into the conversation, doesn't he

that seems to be the only way they can relate to our obsession

and . . . they may be on to something

[former9thward]

69. Studies have shown moderate drinkers live longer.

Are you opposed to that? http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20110224/moderate-alcohol-drinking-may-boost-heart-health

[quinnox]

4. great, thanks for solving this problem

all it took was your pep talk.

[Loudly]

5. Essentially ALL traffic deaths are ACCIDENTAL. Including the impaired ones.

[Tejas]

10. Some are premeditated murder.

Any other gems to "share" with the class?

[Loudly]

11. Like the angry ex-wife running over the ex-husband?

Those incidents make big news because of the intent and means.

[4th law of robotics]

40. So if someone chooses to get drunk and chooses to drive and then *accidentally* kills someone

how dead is that person?

Since it was an accident and not on purpose is the victim only half dead? Or thirty percent? I guess it depends on the blood alcohol level on how deceased the victim may be.

Unlike guns that kill people 100% since guns are evil.

[Marengo]

51. No, most are the cause of negligence

on the part of drivers. There are few genuine "accidents".

[Ikonoklast]

7. How many of those deaths are intentionally caused?

How many of those traffic deaths are by a driver intent upon killing another person using the vehicle as the weapon?

[Lex]

8. Since people are going to drink anyway, let's just let EVERYONE drink anytime they want.

Right, right?

[girl gone mad]

9. Good point. So how about making guns at least as big of a pain in the ass to own as cars?

We could require annual inspections and registration taxes plus liability insurance and licensing for any operators.

Cars can be deadly. That's why their use is heavily regulated.

[Tejas]

12. A 10yr old can drive 100mph (or faster) on private property.

You might call that "heavily regulated" use, I don't.

[girl gone mad]

19. Only if no speed limit signs are posted,

but the minor can be still be ticketed and arrested for driving recklessly or violating other laws and if injury or death occurs, the guardian will face charges.

[Tejas]

24. None of that applies on private property.

[girl gone mad]

71. You're wrong.

Check the laws in your state. Children driving recklessly can be ticketed. Parents/guardians of children who injure themselves or others while driving on private property could face criminal charges.

[Tejas]

72. Cite please?

[Ezlivin]

13. 3,000+ died on 9/11

And this country had NO problem coming up with $1,000,000,000,000 to fund wars, alter our civil liberties and launch wars.

We were told this was done to "keep us safe from terrorists."

Really? We're much more likely to die in a traffic accident.

Where's the concern over our safety and well-being while on the highway? Particularly since we've lost 300,000+ people since 9/11 in traffic accidents.

[piperpibroch]

14. I'm sure there are plenty of 'considerate' drunks.

When you don't have all your faculties, good intentions won't bring back the person you just ran over.

But we always focus on curing the symptoms rather than the cause. Why is alcoholism so high?

[elleng]

30. Alcoholism is genetic,

10% of the population, approximately. As for dumb 'social drinkers,' try to focus on that. My children, young adults, and their friends, use 'designated drivers' much of the time.

[TheCowsCameHome]

17. So predictable.

These stupid "comparisons" always gets dragged out by the gun nuts.

It must be all they have left.

[Tejas]

18. Don't let it get you down, keep your chin up,

and feel free to offer any advice you might have.

[DrDan]

22. get rid of your guns

[Tejas]

25. My gun(s)...which has/have *what* to do with traffic deaths?

[DrDan]

26. you asked for advice . . . just offering up some

[Tejas]

31. Are you being obtuse on purpose?

[DrDan]

34. "and feel free to offer any advice you might have. "

[BOG PERSON]

21. better public transportation would be a good start

but nobody would make money off that, so it's t.s. for us (tethered swimming)

[Tejas]

27. I would love a train route around town!

I rode a train in a San Antonio park in the 1970's, huge loop from here to there and back, loved it!

[elleng]

28. Right, and the 10% of the population which is alcoholic should know better, right?

UNFORTUNATELY, people are people.

[liberal N proud]

29. That is why I don't drive after drinking more than one drink.

I was way too lucky in my youth to keep driving after drinking.

One drink does not effect me, I can feel two and will not chance it.

[hunter]

32. Guns and automobiles are sacred in the USA.

How do you keep them away from people who shouldn't be using them?

You couldn't ban either of them any more than you could ban Bibles...

[ThoughtCriminal]

37. It used to be over 54,000 (Early 70's)

Then we started to pass some reasonable regulations to make our roads, cars and drivers safer.

If you looked at "Car Enthusiast" magazines from that era, they were pretty worked up about those proposed regulations at the time.

[Taverner]

38. Self-driving cars will fix this problem

Or at least lower the number....

[Fumesucker]

46. And self shooting guns will solve the gun killing problem..

[woo me with science]

68. They'll also make it easier for the government to get you to the tax office

when you owe them money.

"I'm sorry, Dave, but your seatbelt is locked. Going to your daughter's house is not a priority at this time..."

[Taverner]

70. Details! Details!

[2on2u]

76. Every single one of them involve intertia. n/t

[Spider Jerusalem]

77. 30K is the lowest level since the 1940's

and it's 12.3 per 100k population, which is comparable with countries like Poland and Romania. Which incidentally both have very much lower murder rates than the US.

[madokie]

78. You know the thing about drinking is

Once you stop its like a whole new world opens up to you.