HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » Caracas Mayor Who Opposed...

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 08:06 PM

Caracas Mayor Who Opposed Government Apparently Arrested

Source: Associated Press, via ABC

Men in camouflage uniforms smashed into the office of Caracas Mayor Antonio Ledezma on Thursday and carried the opposition figure away. An aide said some of the officers wore the uniform of the national intelligence service police.

Reports of the arrest set off protests around the city, where people spontaneously banged pots from their windows or tapped rhythms on their car horns amid rush hour traffic. Hundreds gathered in front of the headquarters of the intelligence service police to vent their anger.

The government did not respond to calls seeking confirmation of the arrest and it was unclear what the mayor would be charged with. Last week, President Nicolas Maduro named Ledezma among a laundry list of government critics and Western powers he accused of plotting a coup to bring down the South American country's socialist government.

Tensions have been running high in Venezuela this week, with the one-year anniversary of anti-government street protests that rocked the country and resulted in more than 40 deaths. The government arrested several other mayors and former mayors during last year's unrest, including Leopoldo Lopez, who is considered by human rights groups as Latin America's most high-profile political prisoner.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/venezuelan-opposition-leaders-caracas-mayor-arrested-29088190

114 replies, 12528 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 114 replies Author Time Post
Reply Caracas Mayor Who Opposed Government Apparently Arrested (Original post)
greyl Feb 2015 OP
geek tragedy Feb 2015 #1
Bacchus4.0 Feb 2015 #2
freshwest Feb 2015 #38
Bacchus4.0 Feb 2015 #59
hack89 Feb 2015 #3
Bacchus4.0 Feb 2015 #4
hack89 Feb 2015 #5
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #10
christx30 Feb 2015 #13
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #22
MADem Feb 2015 #55
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #73
MADem Feb 2015 #75
christx30 Feb 2015 #56
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #76
geek tragedy Feb 2015 #81
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #84
GGJohn Feb 2015 #87
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #96
GGJohn Feb 2015 #98
geek tragedy Feb 2015 #88
Marksman_91 Feb 2015 #100
geek tragedy Feb 2015 #101
Zorro Feb 2015 #106
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #104
christx30 Feb 2015 #105
Marksman_91 Feb 2015 #108
hack89 Feb 2015 #14
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #17
hack89 Feb 2015 #18
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #21
hack89 Feb 2015 #23
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #32
hack89 Feb 2015 #33
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #35
hack89 Feb 2015 #42
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #77
hack89 Feb 2015 #79
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #86
hack89 Feb 2015 #89
MADem Feb 2015 #54
MADem Feb 2015 #53
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #78
EX500rider Feb 2015 #109
Adrahil Feb 2015 #6
joshcryer Feb 2015 #37
christx30 Feb 2015 #46
7962 Feb 2015 #112
christx30 Feb 2015 #113
7962 Feb 2015 #114
FLPanhandle Feb 2015 #57
Jake Stern Feb 2015 #7
christx30 Feb 2015 #8
Jake Stern Feb 2015 #30
Bacchus4.0 Feb 2015 #9
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #11
Bacchus4.0 Feb 2015 #12
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #16
Throd Feb 2015 #19
GGJohn Feb 2015 #20
hack89 Feb 2015 #15
reddread Feb 2015 #49
hack89 Feb 2015 #50
reddread Feb 2015 #51
hack89 Feb 2015 #52
GGJohn Feb 2015 #60
polly7 Feb 2015 #24
hack89 Feb 2015 #25
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #26
hack89 Feb 2015 #27
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #34
hack89 Feb 2015 #41
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #82
hack89 Feb 2015 #83
GGJohn Feb 2015 #85
reddread Feb 2015 #47
GGJohn Feb 2015 #61
reddread Feb 2015 #68
GGJohn Feb 2015 #69
reddread Feb 2015 #71
Marksman_91 Feb 2015 #70
Bacchus4.0 Feb 2015 #29
Bacchus4.0 Feb 2015 #28
GGJohn Feb 2015 #64
Bacchus4.0 Feb 2015 #31
joshcryer Feb 2015 #36
quadrature Feb 2015 #39
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #40
hack89 Feb 2015 #43
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #91
hack89 Feb 2015 #93
GGJohn Feb 2015 #95
polly7 Feb 2015 #44
GGJohn Feb 2015 #63
polly7 Feb 2015 #45
fasttense Feb 2015 #58
GGJohn Feb 2015 #62
hack89 Feb 2015 #65
EX500rider Feb 2015 #110
hughee99 Feb 2015 #48
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #90
Bacchus4.0 Feb 2015 #92
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #94
Bacchus4.0 Feb 2015 #97
GGJohn Feb 2015 #99
Marksman_91 Feb 2015 #102
Comrade Grumpy Feb 2015 #66
GGJohn Feb 2015 #72
FLPanhandle Feb 2015 #74
geek tragedy Feb 2015 #80
Marksman_91 Feb 2015 #67
Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #103
polly7 Feb 2015 #111
Name removed Feb 2015 #107

Response to greyl (Original post)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 08:08 PM

1. Tin-horn autocratic thug gotta get his thug on.

 

He'll make up some shit about a coup (which he does every other week) and the hardcore authoritarians will lap it up and justify the suspension of all civil liberties in VZ.

How much longer the Bolivarian power brokers will put up with this bullying clown remains to be seen.

VZ is not a democracy. It was a democracy under Chavez, but is now a petrodictatorship.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 08:11 PM

2. Arrest coincides with the currency devaluation to 172 Bs to the dollar from 6.3

The announced "coup" attempt coincided with Venezuela's devaluation of their currency which is now trading at 172 Bs to the dollar from the former official rate of 6.3. Also coincides with the anniversary of the imprisonment of another opposition leader Leopoldo Lopez.

There isn't even a pretense of democracy anymore.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:25 AM

38. Uh, dumb question. Why doesn't VZ do a Greek style 'out of my face' routine? If the USA or whoever

is being such a PITA and their currency problem is so bad, why peg their to dollars? Why not make friends with other SA nations?

It's not like they have to do business with us and if the USA is indeed exporting more oil than we're taking in (kind of a first for us getting the lead in exports, but no one is giving Obama any credit) we don't need to be involved with them.

I am remarkably thick headed about what is going on there. I see no need for all this diversion amidst this misery. Unless as some have said, Maduro is also serving the oligarchs and screwing the people.

This prolonged act of drama makes no sense unless it's dishonest. I can't imagine the people of VZ are this dumb, no matter what they want to have as a government.

That abortion is illegal there, and HIV is on the rise, along with teenage pregnancy, is not an example of a modern state or ideology.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to freshwest (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 12:12 PM

59. the US and Colombia are Ven's largest trading partners in that order

Two countries who the Ven government constantly bashes as the source of their misery but there is no way they could make up the food and other imports if they suspended trade. They import over 70% of the goods they need including food due to their overreliance on oil revenue and failed internal production policies. They must pay for these imports in dollars.

If the US were behind the destabilization efforts as the Ven government and the chavistas here claim, the US could simply suspend exports to Venezuela and/or ban imports of oil from Ven.

I think less severe actions the Obama administration could do in response to the auto-coup currently happening, release the names of the government officials who are under US sanctions now, and/or freezing assets and transfers of money to Venezuela from Ven companies operating in the US like CITGO and refineries.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greyl (Original post)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 08:11 PM

3. Maduro is losing control

I would expect the army to step in soon.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 08:13 PM

4. or simply trying to take complete control. Machado, opposition figure, is next n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 08:19 PM

5. It is hard to see the military standing behind him

too many officers in the mould of Chavez who think they can run the country and unwilling to be bossed by an ex-bus driver.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:48 PM

10. Why are you mocking him for having been poor enough to work as us driver as a young man?

You don't seem to realize the Democratic Party, not the "Democrat" Party, has always been STRONGLY bonded to the support and concerns of the working class. Why is that?

Other trolls have made this grotesque point, too, regarding the fact Maduro was poor as a young adult. You seem to see that as hilarious, and mock-worthy every day your cluster shows up here.

Working people are NOT to be mocked. The fact you believe Democrats would support your lack of dignity in mocking poverty shows you are entirely out of touch with Democrats, and should more wisely spend your time with your peers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:57 PM

13. I think the point is that as a bus driver

he is wholly unqualified to be the most powerful person in a country of millions of people. And his handling of that job seems to prove this.
He wasn't put in place because he was the best person for the job. He was put in place because he had powerful friends. And he is totally out of his depth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to christx30 (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:27 PM

22. Many people believed he was chosen since he was the Vice President to Chavez.

When the next election was held, the people elected him. They were his "powerful friends."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:20 AM

55. He was chosen by Cuba while Chavez was on life support or already dead.

Cuba might not need him so much anymore, though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MADem (Reply #55)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 02:59 PM

73. How odd, passing on right-wing rumors Chavez actually died in Cuba. Where is your proof? n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #73)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:04 PM

75. How odd, making accusations just because I don't agree with your fact-free versions of

life in Venezuela, a "worker's paradise," where people can't even buy basic sanitary items and foodstuffs!!!

Prove to me he didn't. There is ZERO "proof of life" of Chavez in VZ after his return from Havana.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:02 AM

56. So was he qualified to be vice president?

No. Chavez tapped him for some reason. Then when Chavez died, Maduro was elected on name recognition, and "Chavez liked me!" The people voted for him, and he did a crappy job.
Being elected anything doesn't mean you're qualified for the job. Nor does it insulate you from criticism. The guy's an idiot. And as these tactics show, he's a heavy-handed idiot.
A true democracy allows opposition. It's good to have people disagree with you, so you either fix things you are doing wrong, or you convince those that disagree with you that they're wrong.
What's going on down there is nothing resembling democracy. It's the inevitable result of unchecked power. There needs to be firm limits on what a leader can do to shore up his support. Arresting an opposition mayor so you can install someone friendlier to your views is beyond limits.
I can't wait to see Maduro out of office. He's Kim Jong Un lite. I could see him doing the Soviet purges. He makes me sick.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to christx30 (Reply #56)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:09 PM

76. Who are you to tell the people of Venezuela their choice doesn't work for you?

They are the ones who will choose their own President. They made the decision they will not be going back to the past after Carlos Andres Perez called out his military to massacre poor people reacting to his savage attacks on them through vicious price hikes which left them even more stranded and helpless.

You can find all kinds of images of that time in 1989, El Caracazo massacre, after which the vast majority decided they couldn't allow anything like this to happen again.

I was surprised to learn, after reading more about it, that Carlos Andres Perez, even after impeachment, continued to be a hero of the right-wing elites in Venezuela, and he continued to rail on at Hugo Chavez from his home with his mistress in Miami. He called for Hugo Chavez to be shot down in the streets "like a dog."'

One typical, grotesque steaming pile of poo, a real Venezuelan oligarch revered and beloved by the very small wealthy class in the country.

We went through the years of constant attacks here on Hugo Chavez, and noted, with no surprise whatsoever, the right-wing maggots started their new hate campaign on Maduro before Hugo Chavez had even died.

All the hate in the world from the right, all the malice, all the treachery, until they get their tyrants in place and start killing off everyone who doesn't take a beating and keeping his mouth shut about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #76)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:22 PM

81. Maduro is not Chavez, and anyone who suggests he is insults Chavez.

 

Chavez knew how to govern.

Chavez knew he couldn't rule like a dictator.

Chavez understood basic economic principles.

Chavez recognized limits on his own power.

Maduro is a dumb thug who thinks he can arrest economic problems.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #81)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:31 PM

84. Everything you just said about Hugo Chavez was used for attacks here,day in,day out by rw trolls.

"They" daily called him a "dictator," a fool, power mad, stupid, made fun of his clothes, and last, but not least, when he was gaining weight with his disease, started mocking his appearance. The day was never long enough to spew all the hatred and poison racing through their bodies, focused entirely on Hugo Chavez as they typed wildly from their mothers' basements.

Right-wing trolls have absolutely NO standards, there is NOTHING they will not do to exhibit their hatred for leftists. Very odd traits for right-wing people trying to control a Democratic message board.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #84)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:33 PM

87. But do you have any hard evidence that the US is fomenting a coup

against Maduro? Something he, it now seems, does weekly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GGJohn (Reply #87)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:02 PM

96. Do you think if other countries had "hard evidence" the US was fomenting the coups

that it would have been so easy for the U.S. to destroy them?

Where do you imagine the term "plausible deniability" was born?

People have always had to wait until the classified documents somehow are released by the same government which created the coup and destroyed the leftist governments. In the case of Chile, it took decades. Meanwhile, even US citizens in Chile who DID have "hard evidence" like Charles Horman, and Frank Terrugi, whose own relatives didn't find them until well after they had been tortured and murdered by the Pinochet after they learned the US Navy had officers there working in the coup itself. One US Navy officer even drove Horman and his friend to their destination before Horman was murdered. That officer decided he would just retire in Chile, and not come back to the U.S. in his later years.

It's hard to believe right-wingers keep trying to demand U.S. American posters show "hard evidence" a coup is ongoing. That is so close to being idiotic it seems impossible anyone would admit posting it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #96)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:23 PM

98. So you have no proof, right?

That's all you had to say, rather than launch into a nonsensical, long winded rant.
"No GGJohn, I don't have any hard evidence that the US is fomenting a coup against the Maduro govt."
See how easy that is?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #84)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:37 PM

88. At the same time, people who defend the imprisoning of journalists and elected officials

 

based solely on unsubstantiated claims from the government regarding their alleged complicity in coup plotting--for which there has never been any evidence produced--show contempt for the "Democratic" part of this website in that they are authoritarians.

The people who are cheerleading the arrest of an elected official--of Caracas, a city of millions of people--based on NOTHING but the claims of an authoritarian thug like Maduro cannot be said to respect the foundations of civil liberty and democracy. They require no evidence to don their pom-poms and cheerlead the government as it puts its critics and political opponents in prison much like Pinochet and Stalin did.



So, between rightwing trolls and leftwing Stalinists, please don't expect us to grant either side the moral high ground.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #88)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:57 PM

100. Finally someone who says it!

 

It doesn't matter what ideology a government says they follow, if they don't respect basic human rights and carry out authoritarian activities, they deserve no sympathy. It's too bad the "leftists" in this site are too ideologically blind to not see that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Marksman_91 (Reply #100)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:59 PM

101. If the guy was plotting with a foreign government for an armed coup, that would be worthy of an

 

arrest.

But, the obeisance to the authority figure in VZ is rather creepy. No skepticism, no critical thinking. If Maduro says it, that's just as good as if God himself proclaimed it on the mountain.

Rather funny how there's never any evidence produced of all these coup plots involving the United States.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #84)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:12 PM

106. Sounds like you're the hate-filled troll

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #81)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:41 PM

104. Here's how the Venezuelan right-wing showed its appreciation of the people's elected Pres. Chavez.

[center]





[/center]

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #104)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:50 PM

105. Everyone has a right to criticize

the elected leader of a country. No crime in that. Looks like you disagree with free speech rights.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #104)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 09:06 PM

108. Just wondering, when you say "right-wing," does that include the more than 7 million who...

 

Didn't vote for Maduro? Because if so, then damn, that would mean that nearly half the population of Venezuela are part of the "oligarchy." That's quite an amazing feat.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:02 PM

14. I am talking about the attitudes of the Venezulan military leadership

they certainly do not have a tradition of bonding to the concerns of the working class. And they don't have a strong allegiance to the democratic principles. Military coups in 1945, 1948, 1958, 1992, 2000, 2002 are evidence of that.

Chavez was popular with the military - not only was he one of them but he was a dynamic and charismatic leader. Murdaro is none of that. There is no reason to believe he has the respect of the military - especially as they watch their families fall into poverty and they lose all that they had gained under Chavez.

My parents were working poor - so were my wife's. We were the first in either family to ever go to college. We both have siblings who are barely making it. So f**k you and your vile insinuations.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #14)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:07 PM

17. You would appreciate someone having a great hoot over your father's occupation as a young man?

How noble.

Democrats don't do that, regardless. Democrats have supported the working class men and women, and aren't into worshipping the right-wing oligarchs who controlled Venezuela, committed massacres on the poor until Chavez was elected in December, 1989.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:12 PM

18. The Venezuelan military has a long history of supporting the oligarchs and massacring the poor

they are the people you need to worry about.

There is a reason Chavez lavished so much money on them - he needed to buy their loyalty. Maduro can't do that anymore.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #18)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:25 PM

21. I thought you indicated the military supported Chavez because he, too, had been military. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:30 PM

23. That too. But he certainly did not take that loyalty for granted.

Besides buying them off, he also established a personal militia outside the military chain of command in case they did decide to turn against him. He understood them very well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #23)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 11:14 PM

32. He understood the evidence of his own eyes, like the Colombian paramilitaries they found hiding

at a ranch near Caracas, owned by the Cuban "exile" creep Roberto Alonso, living in barracks, preparing for an attack on Miraflores, to kill Chavez, and seize control of the government:

The Venezuelan elite imports soldiers
by Marta Harnecker
May 23, 2004

~snip~
Since 'the conspiracies against Venezuela do not end with the capture of mercenaries in Caracas,' there must be many other infiltrators in other areas of the country; since this is not an isolated action, but one whose efforts to stop the process continue, one can reach but only one conclusion: it is necessary to prepare oneself for self-defense. This is why the President considered it opportune to take advantage of the occasion and to announce three strategic lines for defending the country. The most radical proposal was a call for the population to massively participate in the defense of the nation.

A week earlier, on the 9th of May, on the outskirts of Caracas, a paramilitary force was discovered, dressed in field uniforms. Later, more were found, raising the total to 130, leaving open the possibility that there are still more in the country. The three Colombian paramilitary leaders of the group are members of the Autonomous Self-Defense Forces (AUC) in Northern Santander state in Colombia.

Some of the captured Colombian fighters have a long history as members of paramilitary forces. Others are reservists of the Colombian army and yet others were specifically recruited for the task in Venezuela and were surely tricked. Among these there are several who are minors.

A colonel of the Venezuelan air force was also detained, as well as seven officers of the National Guard. Among those implicated in the plot is a group of civilians headed by the Cuban Roberto Alonso, creator of the 'guarimbas,'<1> and Gustavo Quintero Machado, a Venezuelan, both who are currently wanted by the Venezuelan justice system.

What the real objectives were is now being discussed. One of them could have been to steal weapons so as to then attack the Miraflores presidential palace and President Chavez himself.

The government denounced the existence of an international plot in which the governments of the United States and of Colombian would be involved. U.S. Ambassador Shapiro denied that his country had any participation in the incident. And the Colombian president, for his part, solidarized himself with the Venezuelan government, affirming that he supports its actions against the members of the irregular Colombian military group, which then caused Chavez to publicly announce that he was convinced that President Alvaro Uribe did not have anything to do with the plot, even though he insisted on leveling charges against a Colombian general by the name of Carreño.

Even though the oppositional media conducted a big campaign to minimize the issue, trying to accuse the government of having organized a montage, so as to have a pretext for taking forceful measures that would impede a confrontation at the voting booth, every day more evidence surfaces that confirm the official version.

The Colombian attorney general's office has evidence that proves that paramilitary fighters were recruited and then transported to Venezuela and that extreme right-wing groups infiltrated intelligence services in the border town of Cúcuta. The proof was shown on the news program 'The Independent Network.' The program broadcast some intercepted recordings of paramilitary soldiers in Cúcuta, in which the operations they carried out in Venezuelan territory are reviewed.

More:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=5579

[center]



Colombian paramilitaries captured at a ranch owned by Cuban right-wing “exile” Roberto Alonso[/center]
January 25, 2005

The Granda Kidnapping Explodes
The US / Colombia Plot Against Venezuela
By JAMES PETRAS

A major diplomatic and political conflict has exploded between Colombia and Venezuela after the revelation of a Colombian government covert operation in Venezuela, involving the recruitment of Venezuelan military and security officers in the kidnapping of a Colombian leftist leader. Following an investigation by the Venezuelan Ministry of Interior and reports and testimony from journalists and other knowledgeable political observers it was determined that the highest echelons of the Colombian government, including President Uribe, planned and executed this onslaught on Venezuelan sovereignty.

Once direct Colombian involvement was established, the Venezuelan government demanded a public apology from the Colombian government while seeking a diplomatic solution by blaming Colombian Presidential advisers. The Colombian regime took the offensive, launching an aggressive defense of its involvement in the violation of Venezuelan sovereignty and, beyond that, seeking to establish in advance, under the rationale of "national security" the legitimacy of future acts of aggression. As a result President Chavez has recalled the Venezuelan Ambassador from Bogota, suspended all state-to-state commercial and political agreements pending an official state apology. In response the US Government gave unconditional support to Colombian violation of Venezuelan sovereignty and urged the Uribe regime to push the conflict further. What began as a diplomatic conflict over a specific incident has turned into a major, defining crises in US and Latin American political relations with potentially explosive military, economic and political consequences for the entire region.

In justifying the kidnapping of Rodrigo Granda, the Colombian leftist leader, the Uribe regime has promulgated a new foreign policy doctrine which echoes that of the Bush Administration: the right of unilateral intervention in any country in which the Colombian government perceives or claims is harboring or providing refuge to political adversaries (which the regime labels as "terrorists" which might threaten the security of the state. The Uribe doctrine of unilateral intervention echoes the preventive war speech, enunciated in late 2001 by President Bush. Clearly Uribe's action and pronouncement is profoundly influenced by the dominance that Washington exercises over the Uribe regime's policies through its extended $3 billion dollar military aid program and deep penetration of the entire political-defense apparatus.

Uribe's offensive military doctrine involves several major policy propositions:

1.) The right to violate any country's sovereignty, including the use of force and violence, directly or in cooperation with local mercenaries.

2.) The right to recruit and subvert military and security officials to serve the interests of the Colombian state.

3.) The right to allocate funds to bounty hunters or "third parties" to engage in illegal violent acts within a target country.

4.) The assertion of the supremacy of Colombian laws, decrees and policies over and against the sovereign laws of the intervened country
More:
http://www.counterpunch.org/petras01252005.html

[center]

More Colombian paramilitaries[/center]
Published on Monday, May 17,
by the Agence France Presse
Thousands Protest Colombian Paramilitary Presence in Venezuela
Chavez to Set up 'People's Militia'

President Hugo Chavez announced his government would establish "people's militias" to counter what he called foreign interference after an alleged coup plot by Colombian paramilitaries Caracas claims was financed by Washington.

Chavez also said he would boost the strength of Venezuela's armed forces as part of a new "anti-imperialist" phase for his government.

"Each and every Venezuelan man and woman must consider themselves a soldier," said Chavez.

"Let the organization of a popular and military orientation begin from today."

The president's announcement came a week after authorities arrested 88 people described as Colombian paramilitaries holed up on property belonging to a key opposition figure.

More:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0517-04.htm

[center]~ ~ ~[/center]
12.30pm update

Colombian paramilitaries arrested in Venezuela

Jeremy Lennard and agencies
Monday May 10, 2004

Venezuelan police have arrested more than 70 Colombian paramilitary fighters who were allegedly plotting to strike against the government in Caracas, according to the country's president, Hugo Chávez.
Opposition leaders, however, were quick to dismiss the president's claim, calling the raids on a farm less than 10 miles from the capital a ruse to divert attention from their efforts to oust Mr Chávez in a recall vote.

During his weekly radio and TV broadcast, Hello Mr President, Mr Chávez said that 53 paramilitary fighters were arrested at the farm early on Sunday and another 24 were picked up after fleeing into the countryside.
The country's security forces were uncovering additional clues and searching for more suspects, he said, adding that the arrests were proof of a conspiracy against his government involving Cuban and Venezuelan exiles in Florida and neighbouring Colombia.

More:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/may/10/venezuela.jeremylennard

[center]

More Colombian paramilitaries[/center]
Three Venezuelan Officers and 27 Colombians Sentenced for Assassination Plot

A Venezuelan military court sentenced three Venezuelan military officers and 27 Colombians to two to nine years of prison for plotting an assault on Venezuela’s presidential palace and the assassination of President Hugo Chavez.Another 73 Colombians and 3 Venezuelan officers, who had also been suspected of participating in the plot, were freed after spending 17 months in prison.

118 Colombians were captured in May 2004 on a ranch just outside of Caracas, wearing Venezuelan military fatigues. Many of them appeared to be Colombian paramilitary fighters who had been recruited for a mission in Venezuela to attack the Chavez government and to kill the president. Six Venezuelan officers were also arrested in the course of the investigation.

Some of the Colombians were peasants who had been lured to come to Venezuela with the promise of jobs. Upon arriving, though, they were forced to engage in paramilitary training exercises and were forbidden to leave the ranch. 18 of the Colombians were released immediately after the capture and returned to Colombia because they were minors between 15 and 17 years. The ranch belongs to Roberto Alonso, a prominent Cuban-Venezuelan opposition activist. The highest level officer to be sentenced was General Ovidio Poggioli, who had been charged with military rebellion and was sentenced to 2 years and ten months of prison. The other two Venezuelan officers are Colonel Jesús Farias Rodríguez and Captain Rafael Farias Villasmil, who were each sentenced to nine years of prison. The 27 Colombians were each sentenced to six years prison.

When the group of Colombians were first arrested, many opposition leaders argued that the government had staged the arrests, in order to make the opposition look bad. They pointed out that no weapons were found with the paramilitary fighters and that the whole operation looked far too amateurish to have any chance of success. Also, it was argued that it is practically impossible to transport 120 Colombian paramilitary fighters undetected all the way from Colombia to Caracas, considering that there are numerous military control points along the way.

http://www.voltairenet.org/article130297.html

[center]~ ~ ~[/center]
Venezuela's Chavez pardons Colombian prisoners accused in plot
By Fabiola Sanchez

ASSOCIATED PRESS

3:11 p.m. August 30, 2007

CARACAS, Venezuela – President Hugo Chavez on Thursday pardoned dozens of Colombians imprisoned in Venezuela on charges of involvement in an alleged 2004 plot against his government.
The order to free the 41 prisoners took effect with its publication in the government's official gazette, dismissing their convictions on charges of military rebellion.

Chavez announced his decision to free the prisoners last week as a goodwill gesture during his efforts to help broker an unrelated prisoner and hostage exchange between Colombia's government and leftist rebels.

In May 2004, 118 Colombians were arrested at a ranch outside Caracas. Authorities said they were wearing Venezuelan military uniforms and were suspected of belonging to paramilitary group that was plotting to create chaos in the country and assassinate Chavez.

More:
http://legacy.utsandiego.com/news/world/20070830-1511-venezuela-colombia.html

[center]~ ~ ~[/center]
[font size=5]Uribe admits anti-Chavez plot planned in Colombia[/font]

AFP, SANTA MARTA, COLOMBIA
Monday, Dec 19, 2005, Page 7

Venezuelan former soldiers plotted against President Hugo Chavez's government at a Colombian military building, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe said.

Uribe made the stunning disclosure on Saturday at the Caribbean resort town of Santa Marta where he is meeting with Chavez, and after analyzing documents furnished by Chavez.

"The Venezuelan soldiers who are in Bogota went to a building to meet with members of the Colombian military. President Chavez gave us these documents ... we analyzed them and this morning I said to President Chavez: `I must tell you the truth: this is a building of Colombia's public forces,'" he said.

Uribe said that intelligence efforts against the Venezuelan government are conducted in the building, and took full responsibility for the affair.

The two presidents met for six hours amid a climate of unusual goodwill on Saturday to discuss the purported Bogota-based conspiracy against the Venezuelan president, which Chavez first disclosed to his Colombian counterpart during a meeting in Venezuela on Nov. 24.

Seven Venezuelans involved in a 48-hour coup against Chavez in April 2002 have been linked to the new plot. Businessman Pedro Carmona, leader of the failed military-civilian coup, enjoys political asylum in Colombia, where he is working as a university professor.

Uribe refused asylum to six Venezuelan soldiers involved in the coup but gave them permission to live in Colombia while they look for safe haven in another country.

He said on Saturday that he takes responsibility for the events.

More:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3291580

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #32)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 11:18 PM

33. The Venezuelan military is prominently featured in your post

that is my point exactly. They are always a danger to any government in VZ.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 11:23 PM

35. That is the COLOMBIAN paramilitaries, or didn't you notice? Colombian.

They were former Colombian soldiers, or simple paramilitary death squad people, some were actually guys who went along with the plan pitched to them, leading back, in time, to the VENEZUELAN OLIGARCHS, the Anti-Chavez CIVILIAN oligarchs.

That would NOT be the Venezuelan military.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #35)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:03 AM

42. So you show how the Venezuelan military were active members of the plot

and then tell me they are not a threat? Got it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #42)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:10 PM

77. You are hallucinating. I can't do anything about that. You're simply determined to get the last word

even if it doesn't make sense.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #77)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:16 PM

79. Did you even read you own links? Here, let me help.

A colonel of the Venezuelan air force was also detained, as well as seven officers of the National Guard.


involving the recruitment of Venezuelan military and security officers


A Venezuelan military court sentenced three Venezuelan military officers


Six Venezuelan officers were also arrested in the course of the investigation.


Venezuelan former soldiers plotted against President Hugo Chavez's government at a Colombian military building


six Venezuelan soldiers involved in the coup


I said that Venezuelan soldiers participated in the coup plot. The Venezuelan military has a long history of coups. Therefore the Venezuelan military represents a real threat to Maduro. It is hard to argue otherwise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #79)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:32 PM

86. People for sale to the opposition do not represent the military. Period. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #86)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:39 PM

89. That still does not make the possibility of a military coup go away.

they have a long history of coups. Chavez even tried his hand at one. At some point the situation in VZ will get so bad that the military will feel the need to restore order.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:18 AM

54. In the batter's circle .... Diosdado Cabello...??????

The military listens to him and he has a national profile, such as it is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:17 AM

53. How many of Maduro's thugs have Cuban accents, I wonder?

He was using Cubans robustly to put down demonstrations several months back. The improved relations between USA and Cuba may be putting pressure on him; he may not have those Cuban bootstompers for much longer and he's getting all the bang for his buck he can get...?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MADem (Reply #53)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:12 PM

78. What a whopper. Even you wouldn't be able to swallow that.

There are only 11,000,000 people in Cuba altogether.

You are really pulling out all the stops claiming President Maduro is using Cubans as physical force against Venezuelan right-wing sociopaths.

That's not happening. We all know it. How pathetic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #78)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 11:05 AM

109. "That's not happening. We all know it. How pathetic."

Actually we don't know that and it is more then likely that Cuban State Security officers have been giving advice on how to run a efficient police state.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 08:40 PM

6. It sure feels like Venezuela is teetering on the edge.

 

Whatever happens, I hope something comes together soon to improve things down there. Seems like it's a bit of a hell hole right now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:07 AM

37. I think this is more of a response to a potential loss of control.

If Maduro doesn't reign in the opposition they could win decently in the upcoming elections, which would force Diosdado Cabello to do a coup.

If the Chavistas win the upcoming elections then no need for a coup.

This is, in my mind, Maduro taking control, not losing it. He just has to arrest MCM and Capriles next and he'll have complete control over the opposition and cause it to fracture. No threat to the government, no potential Cabello coup.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #37)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:54 AM

46. "Unless Obama arrests Republicans on trumped up

charges, they could win big in the next elections."

If that statement was made about the US, the world would be up in arms. I'd hate to see the Republicans get elected, as would anyone here. But an election is an election. It's not a coup. It's "you did a shitty job, and your people are firing you." If Maduro is so great and popular, why the fear? How could Maduro possibly be thought of as legitimate after a win like that? Would we be obligated to respect that win?
Every world leader has to deal with opposition all the time. It's part of governing human beings. People are going to disagree with you. You either fight them at the debate table with your ideas, or you bring in men with guns to silence them.
One is honorable and should be respected. The other is total BS and should be opposed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to christx30 (Reply #46)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 01:05 PM

112. And the next VZ election isnt far away. Wonder whats still to come? nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 7962 (Reply #112)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 01:18 PM

113. Well, if Maduro arrests his political opponents for

trumped up coup charges, the answer to your question will be "More of the same", much to the detriment of the Venezuelan people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to christx30 (Reply #113)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 06:27 PM

114. Agreed.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:45 AM

57. A magic 8 ball could run Venezuela better than Maduro


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greyl (Original post)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:06 PM

7. Jeez Louise another alleged coup plot? So far he's been threatened by the following:

The US
Colombia
The EU
The World Bank
His Maid
The New York Knicks
The Quarterback of the New Orleans Saints

and for good measure, Brother Joe Schmoe at the First Church of Holy Rolling in Boogerville, Mississippi.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jake Stern (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:26 PM

8. You forgot the Pharmacists. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to christx30 (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 11:09 PM

30. Crap!

Can you pass on my apology?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jake Stern (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:38 PM

9. vampires too, really cnn


In his national broadcast Thursday night, Maduro repeated accusations that his government had blocked a U.S.-backed opposition coup plot that included plans to attack the presidential palace with a military jet.

"Enough already with vampires who conspire against peace," he said.

Maduro's accusations spurred a sharp response from the U.S. State Department, which called them "baseless and false."

"The United States is not promoting unrest in Venezuela nor are we attempting to undermine Venezuela's economy or its government. We remain Venezuela's largest trading partner," State Department spokesman Jen Psaki said in a statement Thursday night. "Venezuela's economic and political problems are the result of the policies of the Venezuelan government. The Venezuelan government should stop attempting to distract attention from the country's economic and political problems and focus on finding real solutions through democratic dialogue among Venezuelans."

The accusations and the Caracas mayor's arrest come as opposition protesters mark the one-year anniversary of a wave of anti-government demonstrations that rocked Venezuela and led to the arrest of opposition leader Leopoldo Lopez.

CNN's Pierre Meilhan, Nelson Quiñones and Laura Koran contributed to this report.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/19/americas/venezuela-caracas-mayor/index.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jake Stern (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:49 PM

11. Do yourself the honor of getting informed on US/Latin American history.

There's nothing to admire about someone who takes wild shots at people with absolutely no idea whatsoever about the subject he's attempting to discuss.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:52 PM

12. you just described yourself n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:02 PM

16. That was a mature post, wasn't it? n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:13 PM

19. If anything, it was accurate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:22 PM

20. You just blew up my Irony Meter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:02 PM

15. You just broke my irony meter. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:02 AM

49. It was probably as broke as your political compass

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to reddread (Reply #49)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:03 AM

50. Right. Because criticizing heavy handed tactics by authoritarian leaders

is indicative of a broken political compass.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #50)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:10 AM

51. warrentless surveillance must really bother you

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to reddread (Reply #51)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:13 AM

52. I hate it. The Patriot Act is an abomination. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to reddread (Reply #49)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 12:44 PM

60. LOL,

yeah, because criticizing an authoritarian leader of a country that has his political opponents arrested is indicative of one's political compass.
Oh, wait, it is, it's indicative of being a liberal.
So, that would mean that if you support Maduro, you're in the wrong place.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greyl (Original post)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:30 PM

24. Venezuelan Opposition Leaders Released 'Transition' Statement

Three key figures of the Venezuelan opposition – Leopoldo Lopez, Maria Corina Machado, and Antonio Ledezma – all of whom have to varying degrees been connected to the radical sector of Venezuela's opposition, happened to sign and distribute the following communique on February 11, a mere day before the coup plot that President Nicolas Maduro denounced was to take place.

Leopoldo Lopez, Maria Corina Machado, and Antonio Ledezma
To what extent did these three individuals know of the coup plot? We do not know yet, but the fact that they came out with a statement a mere day beforehand, for a “National Accord for the Transition” of the Maduro “regime,” suggests that they must have known about the plot. National Assembly President Diosdado Cabello did name Antonio Ledezma as one of the individuals who was supposed to sign a statement in support of the coup.


http://www.telesurtv.net/english/analysis/Key-Opposition-Leaders-Released-Transition-Statement-before-Thwarted-Coup-20150213-0004.html

Would the U.S. or Canada tolerate a plotted coup against the gov't? No. Why should Venezuela?


Check out the replies and pics in this locked thread - one down, anyway. I hope every one of them is thrown into prison.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141018604


And ...... kick and rec!!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to polly7 (Reply #24)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:43 PM

25. What is wrong with a manifesto for peaceful change?

by your standard it would have been well with in his rights for Bush to arrest the leadership of the Democratic Party for issuing their party platform arguing for the repudiation of his policies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #25)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:48 PM

26. Pardon me, Polly. I needed to mention the Democratic leadership isn't working with another country

to overthrow the US government.

That would be much more like the Republicans, wouldn't it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #26)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:49 PM

27. Because of Chile in 1973 right? Nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #27)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 11:20 PM

34. So the CIA, etc. plotted kidnappings, murders, "made the economy scream" as Nixon demanded,

arranged a nation-wide truck strike, had boats stacked up waiting for ages in the harbors with rotting food, people going crazy because they couldn't buy necessities for ages, threw all the responsibility for these calamities on the elected leftist President in order to mold public perception against him, placed CIA "journalists" in newspapers, magazines, radio, tv stations, pumped millions of US taxpayers' hard earned dollars into El Mercurio owned by Augustin Edwards to feed daily anti-Allende information to the people, contracted assassinations, did all this, prior to gaining cooperation from the Chilean Air Force in order to bomb the bejeesus out of La Moncada Presidential Palace and kill Allende, and that was a once-in-a-lifetime exercise.

They would never do that again, now, would they?

Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #34)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 06:59 AM

41. So an event 40 years ago is "proof" that we are doing it again?

got it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #41)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:22 PM

82. It's proof they can and will do it whenever they want. Why would they stop?

Do you seriously believe anyone would follow your attempt at misdirection and assume they would change their tactics, turn a new leaf, never repeat a pattern they have used successfully to destroy someone in their way? It has been done to death already.

Why would you even consider trying to push the idea they wouldn't do it again because they already did it, bring unforgiveable suffering to vast numbers of people already, to get what they wanted?

Good grief, gerty!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #82)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:25 PM

83. So "they", meaning President Obama, are trapped in a 50 year policy with no choice at all.

got it.

So you do actually have hard evidence of US involvement? Besides Maduro's semi-annual pronouncements that is? Hard, verified evidence of the here and now with no reference to 40 year old events. Can you do it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #83)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:31 PM

85. She's been asked that many times and the usual

response is the posting of shit that happened 40 years ago.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #34)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:56 AM

47. its not like anyone is still listening to Henry Kissinger

 

the whole anti-left blood lust gene must have eluded me completely.
I admire your speaking to the deaf and dumb, giving the historically accurate
point of view a voice against the Organs of propaganda,
but I think what we need is some good old gene modification therapy.
can a right winger ever change its spots otherwise?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to reddread (Reply #47)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 12:48 PM

61. Shit that happened over 40 years ago in Venezuela

has no bearing on the mess there today.
Maduro doesn't need any help from the US screwing up his country, he's doing a bang up job all on his own.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GGJohn (Reply #61)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:48 PM

68. facts not required.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to reddread (Reply #68)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:51 PM

69. Something you would intimately know about.

You just blew up my Irony Meter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GGJohn (Reply #69)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:55 PM

71. 40 years ago in VZ?

 

I admit, I do give too much credit to people with opinions.
if only there was something productive I could do with the disappointing truth.
That broken irony meter should serve you perfectly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #34)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:53 PM

70. One person seems worried about the situation in Venezuela, especially concerning Ledezma's arrest

 

Oh, look at that! It's Allende's own daughter: http://www.emol.com/noticias/nacional/2015/02/20/704565/isabel-allende-pide-al-gobierno-expresar-preocupacion-por-arresto-de-alcalde-en-venezuela.html

Oh, but why do I bother? You're probably gonna say something like she's "misguided" and "bought for" by the "oligarchs." Doesn't seem like she believes the whole current US-backed coup BS either.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #25)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 11:00 PM

29. Chavez: Bush should resign as president

Would have been fine by me. I don't recall Obama saying Maduro should resign, which also would be fine by me.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-09-22-chavez-bush_x.htm

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez launched yet another verbal assault against President Bush upon returning from a highly charged U.S. visit Friday, calling on the American leader to resign.

Chavez also suggested that New York city police were behind a electrical disruption during his speech Thursday in Harlem, but police denied the allegation.

"He should renounce the presidency if he has any dignity. The president of the United States has failed completely," Chavez said at the inauguration of a natural gas project in northwestern Venezuela.

It was Chavez's first appearance since returning from the United States, where he called Bush "the devil" at the United Nations' General Assembly and later criticized him in a speech to supporters at a church in Harlem.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to polly7 (Reply #24)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:53 PM

28. well, lets take a look at the actual statement from the same link shall we?

Point out to us to the nefarious plot in the message.

Comunique – A Call on Venezuelans for a National Accord for the Transtion

The people of Venezuela are experiencing one of the most difficult circumstances of their history, to which it has been led by a regime that in the last sixteen years applied a failed model and that has practiced with impunity anti-democracy; an inefficient and corrupt regime that stole, gave away and squandered considerable public resources, with which it could have launched the welfare and progress of all, instead of generating the ruin that we suffer today.

In effect, the disaster we live in is the result of a project of an unscrupulous elite of no more than a hundred people who took over the State in order to make it totalitarian, and which has relied on violent groups and corrupt military leaders to control the society through repression that degraded the institutions and violated every sphere of society to the point of devastating the economy and severely damaging the foundations of peace.

The instability and tensions resulting from the crisis and the insistence of the regime to "deepen" the model that it created, can lead, in the short run, to a humanitarian crisis and has discredited the government to an extreme degree. It is clear that the regime will not solve the crisis and that the Maduro government has entered a terminal phase.

Our call: Construct an agreement to lead to a transition in peace

It is the duty of every democrat to help resolve the current crisis, to defend freedom, to prevent that the inevitable collapse of the regime overflows the channels of peace and constitutionality and to make the transition, that is, that the transition from the superseded system to a new hopeful one, occurs hand in hand with the majority of Venezuelans and takes us without moving backwards to recover the spirit and democratic order.

Assuming this commitment, we issue a call, without political distinctions and transcending differences, so that we move with the urgency of the case towards a National Accord for the Transition, in which the Unity of all citizens of Venezuela is represented, through the vision of workers, youth, entrepreneurs, academics, politicians, church members and the Armed Forces, in short, of all domestic sectors.

Agreements and commitments of the National Accord will give solidity to the decisions that should be adopted to overcome the crisis in all areas; to harmonize the country socially and to ensure political stability in its passage through a process that will experience risks, shocks and threats of various kinds.

To this end, we propose a program of three agendas for concrete action, which has been fueled by the contributions that various groups of brave Venezuelans have made in recent times. As an instrument of the National Accord, we invite you to accompany and enrich the program with the perspectives of all sectors, which will provide as a guide for overcoming the crisis and beginning the reconstruction of the country.

1. A political-institutional agenda to restore the trampled freedoms, sovereignty, social peace and the rule of law:

- Reestablish the full validity of democratic institutions and human rights, release political prisoners, facilitate the immediate return of exiles and request that the judicial system opens processes so that may be room for the punishment of serious crimes committed by governmental power;

- Return the effective exercise of freedom of expression and for citizens to learn about state management and to completely reverse the violations and abuses committed in these areas;

- Rescue the autonomy of the public bodies, to designate their representatives by constitutional means and to rehabilitate the political pluralism and national sovereignty of the Venezuelan State;

- Restore full decentralization, exercise of regional and local authorities and genuine public participation as established by the Constitution and laws;

- Prepare and conduct free and absolutely transparent presidential elections;

- Ensure the loyalty and attachment of the National Armed Forces to the Constitution and its separation from foreign interference and partisan political activity; and

- Open a political depolarization process and national reconciliation, to convene and actively involve the whole society in rebuilding the foundations for peace.

2. An agenda to address the social crisis and ensure efficient attention to the most vulnerable sectors:

- Reestablish in the very short term a normal supply of food and other essential goods of household consumption and the supply of spare parts that prevent the operation of supply chains;

- Correct failures of basic public services throughout the country, with special priority in electricity, water, sanitation, cooking gas and public transport;

- Ensure that health needs of all the people of Venezuela are covered, attending to the flaws and distortions in the management of public health and hospital systems; resolve the current shortage of medicines, medical supplies and equipment and supply deficits of health personnel at various levels; and

- Confront as a priority of state public safety emergency, dismantling criminal networks that proliferated thanks to impunity and the complicity of the current regime and comprehensively address the problem in its facets of prevention, policing, and the administration of justice so as to eliminate impunity and to enhance the effectiveness of the prison system.

3. An economic agenda focused on stabilizing the economy, restoring family income and generating confidence in the country:

- Recover the operational capacity and significantly increase production of the oil industry, review legal frameworks and agreements harmful to it and appoint a new PDVSA board, that is honest and capable, to ensure its efficient operation in service of the country;

- Insert Venezuela once again into international financial circuits and acquire from these the financial support needed to overcome short-term difficulties;

- Decelerate the current inflationary process, assuming an exchange rate policy that will promote domestic production and, in general, correct macroeconomic imbalances caused by years of excesses and corruption; restore the autonomy of the BCV [Central Bank]; enforce an efficient and transparent system for the coordination of public finances and appoint new authorities of economic entities of the State, based on norms and criteria of capability and merit;

- Make arrangements for fair compensation for damage that might arise from arbitrary expropriation; review the current status of all non-oil companies that ended up in state hands by the voracity of the regime and decide the forms of ownership and management that they should take to ensure their productive recovery.

- Remove the tangle of controls that stifle the economy and rebuild the legal and economic bases that are necessary to attract productive investment to ensure stable growth in the future.

Venezuela will be what Venezuelans make of her through the change of direction that we ourselves decide. This path will be secured by consensus and commitments to the National Accord for the Transition.

Antonio Ledezma

Leopoldo López

María Corina Machado


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to polly7 (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 12:57 PM

64. So where in that Manifesto is there a call for the overthrow of the govt?

All I read was a manifesto for a peaceful transition, not a violent overthrow.

So, you're for the jailing of political opponents because they don't fit your agenda?
Aren't you kinda on the wrong board for this?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greyl (Original post)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 11:12 PM

31. Bill Clinton asks for release of Lopez (imprisoned) and other political prisoners in Ven

http://www.lapatilla.com/site/2015/02/19/ex-presidente-bill-clinton-pide-liberacion-inmediata-de-leopoldo-lopez-y-prisioneros-politicos/

Leopoldo López and the political prisoners in Venezuela should be released without delay.


Spanish site but Clinton's English tweet quoted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greyl (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:04 AM

36. Only MCM and Capriles left.

Once they're arrested Venezuela will have no large opposition.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greyl (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:44 AM

39. the new Dirty War

 

I suggest that dissidents learn how
to fly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quadrature (Reply #39)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:19 AM

40. The Dirty War was supported by the United States, as Argentina tortured then "disappeared" 30,000

human beings.

The other Fascist coups, military dictatorships, other bloody, filthy wars against the people were also whole-heartedly supported by the U.S. Gov't, which has always been completely driven to remove any and ALL leftist-led elected governments in the Americas. All of them.

When the Americas started electing leftists during George W. Bush's regime, he immediately revved up his apparatus to start finding and buying support among the opposition (right-wing) in all the countries, as per the pattern created long ago with which the US corporations controlled governments in South and Central America. Entire governments were overthrown and replaced with puppets, the most conspicuous one in modern memory being Guatemala, in 1954, by Dwight D. Eisenhower, the C.I.A., and his military, in order to keep United Fruit (Chiquita) in control of great portions of that country, and the government.

So many Democrats have taken the time to learn about all of this. It is ESSENTIAL to have any idea whatsoever about what is happening now.

If your "Dirty War" you envision is going on in Venezuela, where do you imagine they are torturing and murdering all the "dissidents" who are also paid by the U.S. Government in allotments everyone who bothers to look knows are given yearly by Congress, and handed out by various organizations like N.E.D., and so many others to create and fund dissident groups. In the "Dirty War," it is in evidence, including testimony years later by pilots, that the military dictatorship tortured leftists, kept pregnant women until they delivered their infants, gave the infants out to political friends of the dictatorship, then took them to airplanes, chained them together, and threw them out over the ocean, or into rivers. This cute stunt was also duplicated in Central America later, after Argentina did it in the 1980's, as also evidenced in testimony from participants. "Dirty War" was in Argentina, and it was a hell opened up on earth. It's not a term to toss around lightly by people who have no idea of its reality.

Please do stir yourself long enough to start doing your homework. If you don't know what you're talking about, you're likely to believe what any of the corporate right-wing controlled media tell you, along with the right-wing trolls who have infested this DEMOCRATIC message board.

There's a universe of difference between progressives and the anal, hate-fueled right wing. It matters to the poor who they elect as their leaders.

In case you never noticed, you read propaganda continuously through your corporate "news." It's up to you to start searching for the truth. That's YOUR responsibility. You will need to be a person of conscience first and foremost, or you'll end up reading only the stuff which bolsters the racist, greedy 1%'s world view, which is death for the human race.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #40)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:27 AM

43. This will be a homegrown dirty war.

they are perfectly capable of doing this on their own.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #43)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:47 PM

91. A homegrown dirty war. They'll need the help of the U.S. to pull that off, won't they, soothsayer?

[center][/center]

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #91)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:24 PM

93. Or Cuba's.

Last edited Wed Sep 23, 2015, 03:36 PM - Edit history (1)

There are plenty of authoritarian regimes they can emulate. Suppressing dissent is a skill mastered by many countries besides the U.S.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #91)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:55 PM

95. Or Iran's, or Cuba's. eom.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greyl (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:38 AM

44. John Pilger Interviewed by Michael Albert

By John Pilger and Michael Albert

February 16, 2015

1. Why would the U.S. want venezuela’s government overthrown?

There are straightforward principles and dynamics at work here. Washington wants to get rid of the Venezuelan government because it is independent of US designs for the region and because Venezuela has the greatest proven oil reserves in the world and uses its oil revenue to improve the quality of ordinary lives. Venezuela remains a source of inspiration for social reform in a continent ravaged by an historically rapacious U.S. An Oxfam report once famously described the Sandinista revolution in Nicaragua as ‘the threat of a good example’. That has been true in Venezuela since Hugo Chavez won his first election. The ‘threat’ of Venezuela is greater, of course, because it is not tiny and weak; it is rich and influential and regarded as such by China. The remarkable change in fortunes for millions of people in Latin America is at the heart of U.S. hostility. The U.S. has been the undeclared enemy of social progress in Latin America for two centuries. It doesn’t matter who has been in the White House: Barack Obama or Teddy Roosevelt; the US will not tolerate countries with governments and cultures that put the needs of their own people first and refuse to promote or succumb to U.S. demands and pressures. A reformist social democracy with a capitalist base – such as Venezuela – is not excused by the rulers of the world. What is inexcusable is Venezuela’s political independence; only complete deference is acceptable. The ‘survival’ of Chavista Venezuela is a testament to the support of ordinary Venezuelans for their elected government – that was clear to me when I was last there. Venezuela’s weakness is that the political ‘opposition’ — those I would call the ‘East Caracas Mob’ – represent powerful interests who have been allowed to retain critical economic power. Only when that power is diminished will Venezuela shake off the constant menace of foreign-backed, often criminal subversion. No society should have to deal with that, year in, year out.

2. What methods has the U.S. already used and would you anticipate their using to unseat the Bolivarians?

There are the usual crop of quislings and spies; they come and go with their media theatre of fake revelations, but the principal enemy is the media. You may recall the Venezuelan admiral who was one of the coup-plotters against Chavez in 2002, boasting during his brief tenure in power, ‘Our secret weapon was the media’. The Venezuelan media, especially television, were active participants in that coup, lying that supporters of the government were firing into a crowd of protestors from a bridge. False images and headlines went around the world. The New York Times joined in, welcoming the overthrow of a democratic ‘anti-American’ government; it usually does. Something similar happened in Caracas last year when vicious right-wing mobs were lauded as ‘peaceful protestors’ who were being ‘repressed’. This was undoubtedly the start of a Washington-backed ‘colour revolution’ openly backed by the likes of the National Endowment for Democracy – a user-friendly CIA clone. It was uncannily like the coup that Washington successfully staged in Ukraine last year. As in Kiev, in Venezuela the ‘peaceful protestors’ set fire to government buildings and deployed snipers and were lauded by western politicians and the western media. The strategy is almost certainly to push the Maduro government to the right and so alienate its popular base. Depicting the government as dictatorial and incompetent has long been an article of bad faith among journalists and broadcasters in Venezuela and in the US, the UK and Europe. One recent US ‘story’ was that of a ‘US scientist jailed for trying to help Venezuela build bombs’. The implication was that Venezuela was harbouring ‘nuclear terrorists’. In fact, the disgruntled nuclear physicist had no connection whatsoever with Venezuela.

All this is reminiscent of the unrelenting attacks on Chávez, each with that peculiar malice reserved for dissenters from the west’s ‘one true way’. In 2006, Britain’s Channel 4 News effectively accused the Venezuelan president of plotting to make nuclear weapons with Iran, an absurd fantasy. The Washington correspondent, Jonathan Rugman, sneered at policies to eradicate poverty and presented Chávez as a sinister buffoon, while allowing Donald Rumsfeld, a war criminal, to liken Chavez to Hitler, unchallenged. The BBC is no different. Researchers at the University of the West of England in the UK studied the BBC’s systematic bias in reporting Venezuela over a ten-year period. They looked at 304 BBC reports and found that only three of these referred to any of the positive policies of the government. For the BBC, Venezuela’s democratic initiatives, human rights legislation, food programmes, healthcare initiatives and poverty reduction programmes did not exist. Mission Robinson, the greatest literacy programme in human history, received barely a passing mention. This virulent censorship by omission complements outright fabrications such as accusations that the Venezuelan government are a bunch of drug-dealers. None of this is new; look at the way Cuba has been misrepresented – and assaulted – over the years. Reporters Without Borders has just issued its worldwide ranking of nations based on their claims to a free press. The U.S. is ranked 49th, behind Malta, Niger, Burkino Faso and El Salvador.

3. Why might now be a prime time, internationally, for pushing toward a coup? If the primary problem is Venezuela being an example that could spread, is the emergence of a receptive audience for that example in Europe adding to the U.S. response?


Full article: https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/john-pilger-interviewed-by-michael-albert-2/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to polly7 (Reply #44)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 12:54 PM

63. So, a lot of unfounded accusations,

but no real evidence?
That incompetent fool of a president, Maduro, doesn't need the US to interfere, he's doing a bang up job of screwing up Venezuela all by himself.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greyl (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:40 AM

45. Great news!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141018604

Unfortunately the thread was locked, but this is very good news.

Venezuelan Opposition Leaders Released 'Transition' Statement

Three key figures of the Venezuelan opposition – Leopoldo Lopez, Maria Corina Machado, and Antonio Ledezma – all of whom have to varying degrees been connected to the radical sector of Venezuela's opposition, happened to sign and distribute the following communique on February 11, a mere day before the coup plot that President Nicolas Maduro denounced was to take place.

Leopoldo Lopez, Maria Corina Machado, and Antonio Ledezma
To what extent did these three individuals know of the coup plot? We do not know yet, but the fact that they came out with a statement a mere day beforehand, for a “National Accord for the Transition” of the Maduro “regime,” suggests that they must have known about the plot. National Assembly President Diosdado Cabello did name Antonio Ledezma as one of the individuals who was supposed to sign a statement in support of the coup.


http://www.telesurtv.net/english/analysis/Key-Opposition-Leaders-Released-Transition-Statement-before-Thwarted-Coup-20150213-0004.html

Would the U.S. or Canada tolerate a plotted coup against the gov't? No. Why should Venezuela?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to polly7 (Reply #45)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 12:08 PM

58. Our US tax dollars at work. It was budgeted and now they spent it.

 

I wish a socialist country would spend their tax dollars here in the US to support opposition to capitalism. We need a new economic system and capitalism just ain't working anymore.

But I agree, US funded coupes have been done in Chile and other socialist leaning countries in South America on a regular basis. There is just something about self determination in South America that our politicians and rich elite will not allow.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fasttense (Reply #58)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 12:51 PM

62. I suppose you have a link to any evidence that the US is fomenting

a coup against that incompetent fool, Maduro?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fasttense (Reply #58)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:02 PM

65. So Maduro's incompetence is all an act and he is really taking our money to wreck VZ?

certainly plausible judging by his actions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fasttense (Reply #58)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 11:11 AM

110. "..and capitalism just ain't working anymore."

It's certainly work better then what ever they are doing in Valenzuela. 68% inflation at the end of 2014 and one of the highest murder rates in the worlds (10x the US rate) and shortages of everything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greyl (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 09:41 AM

48. Is he up for re-election soon? If I recall correctly,

they have a law that anyone "pending trial" can't run for office and this might ensure he can't run for mayor in the next election.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hughee99 (Reply #48)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:43 PM

90. The next election for Caracas mayor will be in 2016. Last one was in 2012. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #90)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:01 PM

92. Nope, he was re-elected in December of 2013 and who knows when the next real

election will be.

A simple internet search is often all that is required to get accurate info particularly for those who lack knowledge on the subject they are replying. That means you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #92)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:51 PM

94. Thanks for the right info. I missed something, clearly.

Taking another look for more information on Ledezma, I learned he was "appointed governor of the now-defunct Federal District (1992–1993) by Carlos Andrés Pérez"! The same impeached President who created the horrific El Caracazo massacre of 3,000 poor people, having his military in tanks chasing them down in their own barrios and shooting them down in the streets.

It doesn't take long to discover the narrow racist elites in Venezuela actually supported that massacre, and believe the massacre victims actually had it coming to them.

I definitely was off in going with the 2012 election. I forgot that there was an early election put in place due to the death of Hugo Chavez.

The Winner of Venezuela’s Election to Succeed Hugo Chávez Is Hugo Chávez

Despite a surprising showing by opposition candidate Henrique Capriles, Chavismo lives on. But can Nicolás Maduro hold it together?
Greg Grandin April 16, 2013

On April 14, Venezuelans went to the polls and elected Hugo Chávez’s former foreign minister and vice-president, Nicolás Maduro, president. It was a close race, closer than many thought it would be. The man he beat was Henrique Capriles Radonski, Chávez’s unsuccessful challenger in last October’s presidential election.

When Chávez died in early March, Capriles had been in Manhattan, where his family owns a number of apartments on the Upper East Side. He quickly flew back to Caracas to announce that he would run again for president in the special election to replace Chávez. Few observers, even among his supporters, thought Capriles, who had just lost to Chávez by more than ten points, had a chance. But he mounted a strong, energetic campaign and came within less than two points of beating Maduro. This election’s turnout was just below October’s contest, which means that Capriles better showing came mostly from former Chávez voters who this time cast their ballot for him.

There are many interesting things to be said about this election, one being that it really wasn’t a fight over ideology. Maduro, who had been directly named by Chávez as his preferred replacement, ran as the Chavista candidate. But in a way so did Capriles, who pledged to be a better administrator of the society Chávez left behind.

Already during his previous campaign, Capriles drew sharp criticism from Venezuela’s oligarch irreconcilables for basically running as a third-world socialist. He repeatedly compared himself to Brazil’s leftist president, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, saying that he would keep in place all of Chávez’s social missions, which deliver health care, education, housing, childcare and other services to the urban and rural poor. Capriles, who in 2002 supported the failed US-backed coup against Chávez, even announced that he was a “Bolivarian,” an act that just a few years earlier would have been as unthinkable as Dick Cheney declaring himself a member of Code Pink.

During this election, Capriles went even further. He named his campaign team after Simón Bolívar and said he would not only defend the misiones but create new ones. He promised to dramatically increase salaries and pensions and began to work phrases associated with Chávez into his speeches, even copying symbols of the Bolivarian Revolution into his campaign paraphernalia. In other words, the close results of the election can’t be interpreted as a rejection of Chavismo, since Capriles ran promising to consolidate the gains of Chavismo, saying that he, and not Maduro, was be a better executor of Chávez’s legacy.

Had he won, Capriles undoubtedly would have quickly reverted to his earlier coup-supporting incarnation and began the dismantling—or at least try to. But the genie let loose by the Bolivarian Revolution won’t be easily put back in the bottle. Over the course of the last fourteen years, Chávez presided over both a radical expansion of the public debate—including redefining democracy to mean social democracy—and a radical expansion of who has access to that debate. He helped set in motion a process by which millions of people who had been formally excluded from political decision-making today think of themselves as protagonists, including thousands, perhaps upward of a million, of Colombian migrants, many of them domestic workers and laborers, who were brought out of the shadows by an immigration reform that the US would do well to imitate. That Capriles’ only ticket into Venezuela’s political arena was to accept this new reality suggests that, whatever the future may hold, the winner of last week’s election was Chávez himself.

More than this, the fact that so many Venezuelans seemingly made a conscious, considered decision to switch their votes confirms what supporters of Venezuelan democracy have been saying for years: people voted for Chávez because they wanted to vote for Chávez, not because they were gulled, duped, bribed or intimidated into doing so.

More:
http://www.thenation.com/article/173871/winner-venezuelas-election-succeed-hugo-chavez-hugo-chavez

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #94)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:11 PM

97. Nope, keep tryng. Maduro's election was Mar or Apr, Ledezma was re-elected in December

the special election was for president, not for Caracas mayor. You do know that Ledezma and Capriles are two separate people?

And to answer the question from your article: No, Maduro can't keep it together as we witness the bad situation he inherited from Hugo turn catastrophic..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #97)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:25 PM

99. And she claims that we don't know what we're talking about?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #97)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 06:02 PM

102. Glad to see how you yourself are more informed than "LatAm activist" Judy

 

Sure shows how horribly informed she is about the whole situation, especially when you consider she uses the same BS propaganda sites to support her points, like Telesur and Absence of Logic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greyl (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:43 PM

66. All you guys so obsessed with Maduro's "incompetence"...

 

I bet you're really pissed off that he is not more efficiently constructing socialism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #66)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:55 PM

72. More like de-constructing socialism. eom.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #66)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:03 PM

74. He is the bad example of socialism the right wing uses now.

By totally fucking up, he gives socialism a bad name.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #66)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:20 PM

80. actually, yes. For all of his occasional buffoonery and occasional missteps, Chavez was managing

 

the economy in such a way that it was both sustainable and improving the lives of its people.

He was a very smart man who knew that governing required some flexibility.

Maduro is every bad thing the rightwingers have ever said about socialism, and he's a threat to wreck the whole damn thing there.

I certainly would not want the old racist rightwing assholes back in power in VZ, but it would be preferable to give VZ's people a choice other than rightwing plutocrats vs incompetent leftwing authoritarians.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greyl (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:44 PM

67. Maduro and co. are getting very desperate

 

They've been digging their own graves for quite some time now, and Diosdado is just bidding his time now until he sees himself and the military "forced" to take over the mess that Maduro created. Only thing is, this puts them between a rock and a hard place: on the one hand, they can't admit that Maduro dun goof'd up because he was Chávez's hand picked successor, and is supposed to be the one to carry out his legacy. On the other hand, Cabello and the military think Maduro is a half-brained asshat, and can't stand him being the president and screwing things up more and more.

And then there's the whole situation with one of Cabello's personal guards accusing him of being a drug lord. At this point, Godgiven Hair, and pretty much any other high-ranking politician that doesn't have diplomatic immunity, won't dare leave the country, some under the fear they'll be arrested or extradited to the US, and some probably because they've been outright prohibited to leave the country by the Capo Cabello himself, since they don't want to risk ANYONE else talking under asylum, like what Leamsy Salazar did.

There's a reason why all this happened around the same time that the new official exchange rate of the Bolivar was released. And let's not even imagine how things will go down when they finally have the balls to say they will raise gas prices. Even in some very chavista websites, like Aporrea.org, supposed Chavismo supporters are starting to get tired of the PSUV autocracy. Many are criticizing the fact that there's essentially no democracy within the party itself, and that the government elites are enjoying privileges that are not worthy of a true socialist. One who stands out in particular is blogger Nicmer Evans, who recently did a piece called Let the privileges end!!! (Spanish: ¡Que se acaben los privilegios!): http://www.aporrea.org/ideologia/a202972.html

He basically criticizes how many supposed "socialist" leaders from the PSUV use state-sponsored vehicles for personal trips (such as Elías Jaua some months when he used a PDVSA plane for an unofficial visit to Brazil, where his nanny got caught with a gun in her luggage,) having corporate cellphones like iPhones and Blackberries, as well as the clear nepotism that exists between all the top-ranking officials, and free access to those same politicians' relatives to the dollar at the official exchange rate while it takes sometimes months for a normal citizen to obtain them, and so on. And Evans has actually gotten a lot of flack in the last few years because of these open criticisms against the government, especially under Maduro's administration.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg; Jorge Giordani, who was the Minister of Planification (basically the guy in charge of the national budget) during pretty much all of Chávez's presidency, and for the first year of Maduro's, has become highly critical of the Nincompoop's handling of the economy, to the point of saying that Venezuela was starting to become the laughingstock of Latin America (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/03/us-venezuela-giordani-idUSKBN0L71KV20150203). And of course, who can't forget Heinz Dieterich, who was the supposed mentor of Chávez and held as the mastermind of the "socialism of the 21st century?" He recently put out an article called "The last year of the Chavista Government" in the same website chavista website (Spanish: http://www.aporrea.org/actualidad/a201309.html) which was heavily criticized by some people in there as well, one guy even calling him a "liar and coward" (Spanish: http://www.aporrea.org/actualidad/a201448.html), and by none other than the outdated Alan Woods, as seen in this VenezuelaAnalysis article: http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11168

The latest instance of another prominent chavista writer calling for an intervention in the PSUV is Hector Navarro, who recently wrote about "encouraging a rebellion at the bases of the PSUV " (http://therealnews.com/t2/component/content/article/405-hector-bujanda/2286-hector-navarro-im-encouraging-a-rebellion-at-the-bases-of-the-psuv). It'll be fun to see how long he lasts before he's silenced.

This is just the beginning. More and more people who were supporters of chavismo, especially the poor ones, are everyday waking up to the reality that was very difficult for them to accept: Maduro is an incompetent idiot. Though considering the level of fanatism that some of his followers have, especially in this forum, it's still a long way to go before the tables start turning. And also, I think it's worth clearing up that I'm Venezuelan myself and still have friends and family living there, and actually use a variety of other Venezuela-based sources that mostly nobody else in this site uses, especially the "leftist" fools who somehow think they know better about the situation in Venezuela than someone who's actually from there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greyl (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:28 PM

103. Interesting comment on Mayor Ledezma by Hugo Chavez. Also, graphic images of El Caracazo massacre.

CARACAS, Friday February 27, 2009

Chávez: The government is in debt to the Caracazo victims

Venezuela's President Hugo Chávez took part on Friday in a mass to honor the casualties of the Caracazo and said that "the Bolivarian state is in debt to the victims of February 27th, 1989."

"The Bolivarian state should make bigger efforts in search of justice in the face of that assault, not only in terms of claiming the issue as a historical event of fair rebellion of the poor, but also in search of justice to find the perpetrators," said the head of state.

He recalled that state authorities issued a bench warrant against then President Carlos Andrés Pérez, "but he is protected by the US government; he is the first one who should pay for the genocide."

Chávez also put the blame on Metropolitan Mayor Antonio Ledezma, who was the Caracas governor in 1989. "He is mostly responsible for that assault on the Venezuelan people, because he led the Metropolitan Police."

http://www.eluniversal.com/2009/02/27/en_pol_art_chavez:-the-governme_27A2237975

[center]~ ~ ~[/center]
27 February 2011 Last updated at 19:03 ET
Victims of Venezuela's Caracazo clashes reburied By Sarah Grainger

BBC News, Caracas



Exactly 22 years after violent clashes between police and protesters killed hundreds of people in the Venezuelan capital, Caracas, some of the victims have been reburied in a special monument in the city's biggest cemetery.

The bloody clashes in February 1989 became known as the Caracazo - literally the big one in Caracas - as security forces loyal to the then president Carlos Andres Perez cracked down on protesters demonstrating over price rises.

Official figures put the number killed at around 300, but some reports suggested as many as 3,000 people lost their lives.

Many were buried anonymously in mass graves, making it impossible to be certain of the number.
The 71 laid to rest on Sunday had originally been buried in a communal grave in a section of the capital's general cemetery known as "the Plague".

Their remains were exhumed in 2009 and taken to a military base where they were checked to verify that they dated from the Caracazo.

More:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-12593085

[center]~ ~ ~













The last two images are street art murals depicting El Caracazo massacre in Caracas.
You can be sure they'll be coming down in a heartbeat as soon as a right-winger takes control.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #103)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 11:35 AM

111. Fascinating.

Could you please make this an OP?

Poor, poor Ledezma.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to greyl (Original post)

Reply to this thread