Transportation board considering reopening Buddy Holly crash

[Omaha Steve]

Source: Omaha World Herald-AP

CLEAR LAKE, Iowa (AP) — The National Transportation Safety Board is looking into a request to reopen the investigation of the Iowa plane crash that killed musicians Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and J.P. "The Big Bopper" Richardson.

The Civil Aeronautics Board ruled in 1959 that the most likely cause of the crash was pilot error. Snow was listed a secondary cause.

The Globe Gazette reports that the board has agreed to consider another investigation after receiving a letter from New England pilot L.J. Coon. He contended that there were other issues involving weight and balance calculations, the rate of the plane's climb and descent, fuel gauge readings and the passenger-side rudder.

"You have gotten our attention," the NTSB said in a letter to Coon. "Let us do our due diligence in order to give you a proper answer."

FULL story at link.

Holly musical video also at link: https://social.newsinc.com/media/json/69017/25502368/singleVideoOG.html?type=VideoPlayer%2FDefault&widgetId=2&trackingGroup=69017&videoId=25502368#.VPZ6Fkxpb90.twitter

Read more: http://www.omaha.com/news/iowa/transportation-board-considering-reopening-buddy-holly-crash/article_af8f41cc-c1ce-11e4-abe9-1b67079f77d2.html

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The day the music died...

[elleng]

1. Oh :-(

[Capt.Rocky300]

2. A waste of the NTSB's time and resources.

[jtuck004]

4. Not if they were wrong in an investigation. Never too late to fix that, because it

might affect the next one, or future safety.

[Capt.Rocky300]

5. I don't think they were wrong as far as I can tell......

The limited experience young pilot got in over his head.

http://www.fiftiesweb.com/cab.htm

[Major Nikon]

12. It wasn't that much different than John-John's crash

The basic situation was the same. Flight at night in possibly IMC, or at the very best no visual reference to the horizon and a pilot not certificated for instrument flight. It's a sure recipe for spacial disorientation that has killed many other pilots and passengers.

In this particular case a contributing factor seems to be the attitude indicator which provides an indication exactly opposite of the ones in which the pilot had trained.

[Capt.Rocky300]

16. Right you are. Having flown with both the traditional attitude indicator.......

and the Sperry, I can say it's real easy to get confused. Especially if you get out an airplane with one type and jump into one with the other.

[Major Nikon]

24. Not to mention the whole flight just had poor decision making all over it

A non-instrument rated pilot flying single pilot VFR at night into deteriorating weather conditions is pretty close to suicide.

[Skittles]

27. that pilot was also very young indeed - only 21

[Capt.Rocky300]

31. Yup. So, what is the point of another investigation?

They probably were over gross weight which wasn't addressed in the CAB report but it matters little now. It would be just one more thing to hang on the pilot.

[GP6971]

6. My question is "why now"?

The article doesn't mention anything. Maybe he has researching the crash?

[Ken Burch]

3. And tomorrow, Bill O'Reilly will be telling us he was at the crash scene.

He will describe the scene as a combat zone in the war between Buddy's plane and Iowa.

[VWolf]

29. And then he'll admit, after he's called on it,

that he only looked at pictures of the crash scene.

[elleng]

7. A great song,

and SO SAD.

[Orrex]

8. Dubya MIHOP

[awoke_in_2003]

9. Ah, the crash that inspired...

the most annoying song ever written.

[catnhatnh]

10. You might want to Google...

"Split Tailed Doctor Killer" or "Forked Tailed Doctor Killer"...The early Bonanzas had mixed reviews because of unusual handling characteristics...

[Major Nikon]

13. Some people love those planes

I never liked the tail wag which bugged the shit out of me. It's not hazardous in and of itself. What made the aircraft dangerous to some is it's a high performance complex aircraft not well suited for inexperienced pilots. So people with more money than flying skills tended to kill themselves with predictable regularity.

[catnhatnh]

14. Not a pilot

but I've sat close enough to hear the tales....

[Capt.Rocky300]

15. As an 18 year Bonanza owner.........

allow me expand on your statement. When properly flown it is as safe an airplane as any other. The vast majority of Bonanza crashes, including those with doctors at the controls, were caused by poor decision making. The same reason we lost Buddy Holly and the others. Specifically, flying into weather that exceeds the pilot's skills or the airplane's structural integrity or both.

The airplane does require a pilot's full attention. This is a high performance airplane, not a trainer and so it is less forgiving. Many crashes were the result of loosing control in bad weather. Particularly pilots without an instrument rating or maintaining proficiency if they have one. Pilots found themselves in a descending left spiral and often responded by pulling back hard on the yoke and over stressing the airframe resulting in failure. Beechcraft beefed up the tail in response. Part of every check out for pilots new to the airplane is to receive training acquainting them with all the characteristics of the airplane.

I love the way it flies. That's why I've had it for 18 years.

[catnhatnh]

17. And they stopped producing it why?

"If you are holding your breath waiting for me to tell you the early Bonanza flying was a blood bath by comparison, wait no longer. As calculated by both Beech and the CAA, (forerunner of the FAA) the Model 35 fatal accident rate was, through 1952, 4.90 per 100,000 hours. The Models A35, B35 and C35 were at 2.50. By comparison, the Cessna 195 was about 2.0 and the Beech 18 twin was lowest at .80."

http://airfactsjournal.com/2012/06/tail-tale-what-was-wrong-with-v-tail-bonanza-pilots/

[Capt.Rocky300]

18. This quote might bother me if I had any respect for Richard Collins.

He's bad-mouthed a lot of good airplanes over the years. It's what he does.

Remember the Bonanza was the first high performance retractable gear airplane to the market. Pilots buying them came out of Stinsons, Pipers and other fixed gear slower airplanes designed to be extra stable sacrificing performance.

[catnhatnh]

19. I'll defer to your knowledge...

...all I know is hearsay. But I sure didn't hear it from non-aviation people.

[catnhatnh]

20. I'll go a little further...

this is like that Mitsubishi turbo twin that bunches of guys swear by but the statistics don't like.

[Capt.Rocky300]

21. The MU-2 is an interesting airplane which....

I've never flown. But a good friend of mine has thousands of hours in one and says it's not a bad airplane except at liftoff if you lose an engine. The airplane wants to fly before it gets to the minimum single engine control speed. I asked him about its dismal record and his explanation is that it should be flown more like a swept wing jet and not like its main competitor, the Beech King Air. He calls the King Air, "an old man's airplane".

[catnhatnh]

22. I really do mean to defer to you on airplanes....

but it comes down to the same discussions of high performance cars or motorcycles (and on those I can venture an opinion). As performance rises, so must proficiency. And when it doesn't...

Basically, in a Cessna or a Piper Cub Buddy lives (maybe not-he'd be in his 80's now).

[Capt.Rocky300]

23. So true and even the slow ones can kill you.....

if you do something dumb.

[Chipper Chat]

11. Hello.......hello....

Miss American Pie.

[madville]

25. In related news

the FDA will be reinvestigating Elvis's death. Several additional causes will looked at, including which country grew the bananas, whether or not Jimmy Carter did in fact grow the peanuts that comprised the peanut butter spread and who did in fact actually fry up the famed sandwich.

[Kalidurga]

26. RIP Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and J.P. Richardson.

I hope they can lay this issue to rest. We lost a lot of great talent that day.

[longship]

28. Thanks, OS. Great post.

What's amazing about this thread is that the DU community is large enough that an expert on a topic can chime in on a thread of related subject.

Here we have a 18 year Beechcraft Bonanza owner contributing to a 56 year old story.

Fucking amazing. Sometimes DU simply astounds me. This thread, and OPs like this one, is what makes DU so great even if they are of peripheral political value.

And somehow, Omaha Steve figures prominently in so many of them.

R&K

[Capt.Rocky300]

32. I know if Omaha Steve has posted it.....

it will be something that interests me.

[libdem4life]

30. Gives me a bit of The Sads. My very first rock and roll idols. American Bandstand and all.