ISIL fighters bulldoze ancient Assyrian palace in Iraq

[eissa]

Source: AlJazeera

Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) fighters have used a bulldozer to start destroying a 3,000-year-old Assyrian city near Mosul in Iraq, archeologists and other sources have told Al Jazeera.

The reported demolition at Nimrud on Thursday comes less than a week after video was released showing ISIL fighters destroying ancient artefacts in a Mosul museum.

"They came at midday with a bulldozer and started destroying the palace," said an Iraqi official in touch with antiquities staff in Mosul.


Read more: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/03/isil-fighters-bulldoze-ancient-assyrian-palace-iraq-150305195222805.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

---

This is nothing short of cultural genocide. And according to the article, these animals have stated that they're not done yet. So will the remaining archeological sites be protected?

[JonLP24]

1. Saudi Arabia has been doing the very same thing

Saudi Arabia Bulldozes Over Its Heritage

Over the last few years, mosques and key sites dating from the time of Muhammad have been knocked down or destroyed, as have Ottoman-era mansions, ancient wells and stone bridges. Over 98% of the Kingdom’s historical and religious sites have been destroyed since 1985, estimates the Islamic Heritage Research Foundation in London. “It’s as if they wanted to wipe out history,” says Ali Al-Ahmed, of the Institute for Gulf Affairs in Washington, D.C.

Though the Saudi rulers have a long history of destroying historical sites, activists say the pace and range of destruction has recently increased. A few months ago, the house of Hamza, the Prophet Muhammad’s uncle, was flattened to make way for a Meccan hotel, according to Irfan Al Alawi, executive director of the Islamic Heritage Research Foundation. There have even been rumored threats to Muhammad’s tomb in Medina and his birthplace in Mecca.

A 61-page report, published recently in Saudi Arabia’s Journal of the Royal Presidency, suggested separating the Prophet’s tomb from Medina’s mosque, a task “that would amount to its destruction,” Alawi says. “You can’t move it without destroying it.” Moreover, he alleges, plans for a new palace for King Abdullah threaten the library atop the site traditionally identified as the birthplace of Muhammad. Even now, signs in four languages warn visitors that there is no proof that the Prophet Muhammad was born there, “so it is forbidden to make this place specific for praying, supplicating or get [sic] blessing.”

Wahhabism, the prevailing Saudi strain of Islam, frowns on visits to shrines, tombs or religio-historical sites, on grounds that they might lead to Islam’s gravest sin: worshipping anyone other than God. In recent years, the twin forks of Wahhabi doctrine and urban development have speared most physical reminders of Islamic history in the heart of Mecca. The house of the Prophet’s first wife, Khadijah has made way for public toilets. A Hilton hotel stands on the site of the house of Islam’s first caliph, Abu Bakr. Famously, the Kaaba now stands in the shade of one of the world’s tallest buildings, the Mecca Royal Clock Tower, part of a complex built by the Bin Laden Group, boasting a 5-story shopping mall, luxury hotels and a parking garage.

http://time.com/3584585/saudi-arabia-bulldozes-over-its-heritage/

Wahhabism

[closeupready]

2. Tragic. But as it was with Dresden, or hundreds of architectural masterworks in Germany,

sometimes, you can't stop people from destroying themselves and their culture. I mean, destruction of artistic antiquities has been going on for as long as human civilization has existed.

[devils chaplain]

9. Difference: The destruction of those German works was a byproduct, not the motivation itself. n/t

[closeupready]

13. No. Some of those structures were used to aid in their war effort.

They knew they were risking total destruction by doing so. They gambled and lost. The attempt to achieve a higher ideal may cost them in worldly terms, but it is a cost they agree to pay.

No metaphor is ever perfect, and thus, there will be differences between any two examples between which you are trying to draw a parallel.

[bvar22]

25. The US 8th Air Force destroyed Dresden,

not the German people.

[closeupready]

30. Disagree.

[gladium et scutum]

39. About

58% of the bombers on the Dresden air raids were from RAF Bomber Command. The remaining 42% were 8th USAAF Bombers.

[devils chaplain]

28. The differences are so great as to render your parallel ridiculous...

These are maniacal religious freaks deliberately trashing priceless artifacts out of devotion to their cult. It's an entirely different act from regrettably risking that those things become a casualty of war.

The point is that their cult is deliberately hostile to human progress itself. The sooner that these creeps eat lead, the better off we'll be.

[closeupready]

31. Disagree.

[eissa]

38. Glad some understand the gravity

This isn't some plot by the MIC, these are real people, some of the weakest and most vulnerable left. And both their lives and history are in the crosshairs.

[JackRiddler]

43. What kind of bizarroland post is this?

Completely off topic, embarrassingly weird, makes one wonder about the motivation. Dresden was leveled by U.S. and British bombers.

[closeupready]

47. Disagree.

[eissa]

3. I think the destruction by ISIS is worse

It's one thing if you don't value your own history, it's another to destroy another culture's historic treasures with the clear intent of wiping out any trace of their existence.

[JonLP24]

5. Wahabbism is a minority sect within Islam

so what Saudi Arabia is doing is destroying another culture's historic treasures.

[DhhD]

11. It is their ancient culture also. The culture of Summer was first with the Assyrians gaining

power through military might, math, astronomy, medicine, language, machines and collecting the great writings of the known world latter on.

The great inventions, writings and objects were kept in one great library that moved around the World with whomever was in power. While the library was in Alexandria Egypt, many of the works of the World's artifacts were destroyed in a great earthquake. The last place of the great world library was in Baghdad, land of Summer and Mesopotamia where Abraham and Sarah came from (Ur).

[eissa]

12. Actually, no it's not

Arabs and Assyrians are not the same. Different ethnic groups, different culture. While Iraqis may value Sumerian/Babylonian/Assyrian history as being theirs in terms of it (currently) being Iraqi, they don't see it as theirs ethnically. The descendants of those civilizations -- Assyrians/Chaldeans -- do. That's a very important distinction.

[freshwest]

35. 'Wiping out any trace of their existence' is their goal for all who don't surrender to them.

No diversity allowed, no past, present or future for those they target. They are Langoliers.

[vkkv]

4. Religious wing nuts..

We have them in the U.S. , too.

[eissa]

6. Sorry, not the same

Last edited Thu Mar 5, 2015, 06:50 PM - Edit history (1)

To draw a parallel between the savages of ISIS -- a group that has spread death and destruction not seen since the Mongol hoards invaded the region -- and the idiotic, whiny Christians of Pat Robertson's ilk, is a false equivalency. Talk to me when the religious right literally round people up and slice off their heads for reasons ranging from belonging to the wrong sect to watching a soccer game. I know they may want to do that, but until that happens, they're nowhere near the realm of these barbarians.

[JonLP24]

8. Death & destruction not seen since the 1st Saudi State

However death & destruction has been going in Iraq & Syria for years before the 2014 ISIS offensive.

[eissa]

10. I know people like to think that way

Makes things so much easier. "Oh, that place has always been a mess, just turn it into a parking lot and be done with it."

But, no, death and destruction to this degree has not been seen in centuries. The genocide by the Ottoman Turks of the Armenians, Assyrians and Pontic Greeks (exactly 100 years ago this April) saw far more killings. But the murders, displacement, and destruction of cultural artifacts conducted by ISIS rivals the worst offenders, and they don't appear to be ending any time soon.

[JonLP24]

14. The war over Saudi Arabia has seen the very same thing

The Wahhabi movement was part of a fundamentalist/revisionist movement within Islam that would lead to creation of the first Saudi State, and its crushing by the Ottoman empire’s Egyptian viceroy Muhammad Ali Pasha.

Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab and the amir Muhammad ibn Sa’ud launched their campaign to reform Islam and consolidate power in Arabia from their power-base in Diriyah. By 1805, the Wahhabis controlled Mecca and Medina, had attacked Karbala and the Imam Husayn Shrine.[1] The Wahhabis also attacked Ottoman trade caravans which interrupted the Ottoman finances.[2] The Saudi amir denounced the Ottoman sultan and called into question the validity of his claim to be caliph and guardian of the sanctuaries of the Hejaz[3] and the Ottoman empire instructed the upstart Muhammad ‘Ali, viceroy of Egypt, to fight the Wahhabis. The Ottoman empire was suspicious of Muhammed Ali’s ambition, and thought that by ordering Ali against the Wahhabis, the defeat of either would be beneficial.[2]

uhammad ‘Ali was ordered to crush the Saudi state as early as December 1807 by Sultan Mustafa IV, however internal strife within Egypt prevented him from giving full attention to the Wahhabis. The Egyptians were not able to recapture the holy cities until 1811.[3]

However, it would take until September 1818 for the Wahhabi state to end with the surrendering of the its leaders. Ibrahim Pasha, Muhammad ‘Ali’s son, had taken over the campaign in 1817. Gaining the support of the volatile Arabian tribes by skillful diplomacy and lavish gifts, he advanced into central Arabia to occupy the towns of Unaizah and Buraidah. Joined now by most of the principal tribes, he appeared before the Saudi capital Diriyah in April 1818. With their march to Diriyah plagued by Wahhabi attacks, they arrived in Diriyah in April 1818. It took until September for the Wahhabis to surrender, in part due to Ibrahim’s poorly trained army. Diriyah was destroyed on June 1819, and Egyptian garrisons were posted in the principal towns. The head of the Wahhabi state, Amir ‘Abd Allah, was sent to Constantinople to be executed.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman%E2%80%93Wahhabi_War

Wahabbi = House of Saud = ISIS

To this degree? You probably don't realize Assad was named the #1 human rights violator of 2014. He has committed many atrocities, killing of mass civilians.

In Iraq Shia militias have been ethnically cleansing neighborhoods for years & the Iraqi government have been brutally oppressing the Kurdish & Sunni populations. Turn it into a parking lot? No far from that, I've been at the forefront arguing for a political solution.

Iraq's corruption continues unchecked

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/02/iraq-contracting-corruption-reconstruction-projects.html

[eissa]

16. Well, my husband is from Syria, and my family from Iraq

So, yes, very familiar with the regimes in both countries. And I still contend that their repression, horrific as it may have been, pales in comparison to the atrocities ISIS is committing. It's one thing to be targeted by a group for what you do, it's another to be rounded up for who you are.

[Fred Sanders]

18. Centuries? Death and destruction on a massive scale occurred in Iraq, 2003 to NOW....remember?

[DhhD]

7. Wahhabist Terrorists are trying to insite Western Intellectuals by burning libraries and destroying

ancient artifacts of culture and history of the past. Islam came to be about 650 AD. ISIL is trying to get the liberal voters to move over to the War Hawk GOP thinking. It will not happen.

ISIL has tried beheadings and setting oil wells on fire. That did not work. They tried setting Egyptian Coptic Christians free. That did not work. They are trying to reach out to the bloodthirsty American voter. Is the MIC helping ISIL? American Oil Companies began getting oil leases again a few years ago after the Shiite Iraq government caved in to accept the contracts.

[madokie]

15. this is where we need to use some guided missiles

directed at the bulldozers

Thanks, bush/cheney/kindasleezie

[eissa]

17. Yes, where are the drones?

Totally justified here. According to the article, they're heading to Hatra, a World Heritage Site, next. That's not exactly in a residential neighborhood. You'd think they'd be able to see these guys driving their bulldozers there.

[awoke_in_2003]

24. probably circling a wedding party. nt

[pasto76]

20. my thoughts exactly.

wouldnt take them long to use the site itself as a shield though

[madokie]

21. Seems it matters not as they're going to destroy it anyway

Thank bush/cheney for this crime against humanity on so many levels. Both should be in the dock at the Hague awaiting trial of so many charges related to this wrong murder of a county and it many good people. Iraqi people for the most part had no ill will towards us as individuals. Our policies toward them yes but toward me personally no.

Our President wants to and is trying to make things better but is met with bullshit at every turn. Sorry bastids the whole lot of the republiCONs.

[Comrade Grumpy]

19. Fucking Nimrods. This is a crime against history.

[romanic]

22. Where the hell is the Iraqi army at?

I know about them going to Tikrit (sp?) but why not send a platoon to Mosul and protect these sites? Hell, where are the rebel citizens at with guns to blow these Radical Islamic losers heads off???

[eissa]

23. Probably cowering under their hijabs eom

[closeupready]

32. There we go. You expose your bigotry for everyone here to see.

Way to go.

[eissa]

33. The Iraqi army dropped their arms and ran

That's not bigotry, that's fact.

[Comrade Grumpy]

26. They're working their way toward Mosul.

Why not send a platoon to Mosul? They need more than that.

[eissa]

27. They're not expected to make it there until April

Not sure what, if anything, will be left by then. Nice of them to give these guys a heads-up, though

[Throd]

29. They only have the capacity to destroy.

[Pooka Fey]

34. It is the World's Culture that they are destoying. That Art belongs to the World.

I don't think we can call it genocide. That word denotes slaughter of humans, not objects - even artistic ones that are more valuable to me than - well let's not go there. Since this is a new sort of atrocity, we need to think up a new word for it. I have no idea of what word would be appropriate, but genocide really isn't.

I don't know of any other culture on earth that made destroying art, history, and culture one of their prime directives.

[eissa]

36. If you wipe out a culture's history

Erasing physical proof of their existence, thereby removing their connection to their native lands, is that not cultural genocide?

[Pooka Fey]

37. We can agree to disagree

You don't have to agree with me, most people don't. I think genocide should only refer to killing humans. I don't know what to call the deliberate destruction of history and culture as a primary political objective.

As I plan to start studying Archeology in the Fall, I am deeply angered by this practice.

[fingrin]

40. From Wikipedia

Genocide
..any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

I would say destroying a peoples culture and identity does cause mental harm and can be used to justify the word genocide in this case.
(Dont get me started on Israel and how they deny genocide)

[Pooka Fey]

41. Did you just argue that mental harm done to a people can merit use of the word "Genocide"? Blech.

Wikipedia just taught me that the word "Genocide" has a LEGAL definition so as to avoid it's being attributed to just whatever :

Raphael Lemkin was explicitly moved by the Armenian annihilation to coin the word genocide in 1943 and define systematic and premeditated exterminations within legal parameters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

Throwing serious words around like M&M's will cheapen their impact over time, but that could be done explicitly and by design by some people who manipulate words and language to obscure the truth, for reasons of their ideological and political objectives.

Such as you seem to want to do, as evidenced by the last line of your post --- written proof that you don't understand the meaning of the word in question.

[JackRiddler]

44. You win for most embarrassing post on this thread.

Sorry, that's just how it is...

Since the quoted language including "mental harm" is directly and accurately taken from the Genocide Convention of 1948, as Lemkin had authored it:

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html

[Pooka Fey]

45. Mental harm does not by itself determine whether or not genocide has occured.

Snark. Not dialogue. Good ol' DU.

Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I am voting to hide because the poster thinks wrecking museum pieces (big crime, that) is the same as killing people. That's just dumb and that needs to be corrected. The poster is not taking this point even when instructed on it, which makes me wonder if this is one of those Holocaust deniers or just someone who is quirky and being a contrarian for trollish sport, or even someone who just doesn't get the significance--the deep significance, mind you--of the word GENOCIDE. Don't trifle with that word. Don't use it lightly. It has a precise meaning. If bodies are stacked like cordwood and an entire ethnicity of people are being wiped out, that's genocide. Destroying artifacts that have been catalogued, photographed, replicated and documented is what assholes do, but it's not genocide. There's no arguing about this, no back-and-forth. Words have meanings.

[JackRiddler]

46. Don't change the subject.

You made a mistake. If you have a problem with the term of "genocide" as defined in the Genocide Conventions (language by Lemkin), say so, so do I. Just don't expose your ignorance and then fail to correct it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. Reports: ISIS bulldozed ancient Hatra city in Mosul

Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) militants bulldozed early Saturday the ancient city of Hatra founded 3rd or 2nd BC by the Seleucide Empire, activists and Kurdish media reported.

Spokesman for the 14th branch of the Kurdish Democratic Party (KDP) in Ninveh province Saeed Mumuzini told Rudaw news website that “ISIS militants used buldozzers to destroy Hatra city.”
...
Hatra floused during the 1st and 2nd centuries AD as a religious and trading center after it was captured the Parthian Empire.

Later on, the city became the capital of possibly the first Arab kingdom in the chain of Arab cities running from Hatra, in the northeast, via Palmyra, Baalbek and Petra, in the southwest.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/03/07/Reports-ISIS-bulldozed-ancient-Hatra-city-in-Mosul.html