(California) 'Shoot the gays' initiative likely to be circulated

[Newsjock]

Source: San Francisco Chronicle

A Southern California attorney’s “shoot the gays” initiative is not destined to become law — for one thing, it’s clearly unconstitutional. But Attorney General Kamala Harris is scheduled to clear it for circulation in May, and she may not have any choice.

Matt McLaughlin, a lawyer from Huntington Beach in Orange County, paid his $200 filing fee Feb. 26 to submit the “Sodomite Suppression Act” to the voters. Declaring it is “better that offenders should die rather than that all of us should be killed by God’s just wrath,” it would require that anyone who touches a person of the same gender for sexual gratification be put to death by “bullets to the head or by any other convenient method.”

The measure would also make it a crime, punishable by 10 years in prison and permanent expulsion from the state, to advocate gay rights to an audience that includes minors. It specifies that its constitutionality can be judged only by a state Supreme Court that has been purged of LGBT justices and their advocates. And it authorizes private citizens to step in as executioners if the state fails to act within a year. Another provision would require that the text of the initiative be posted prominently in every public school classroom.

... Once the sponsor has paid the required fee, state law directs the attorney general to prepare a title and a maximum 100-word summary of the initiative and forward it to the secretary of state for a 90-day period of public signature-gathering. The secretary of state’s website says Harris is scheduled to take those actions by about May 4. Does she have the power to refuse if the measure is patently unconstitutional? Harris isn’t saying; her office did not return repeated phone calls. But some veteran practitioners of election law said they don’t think so.

Read more: http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election/2015/03/18/shoot-the-gays-initiative-apparently-headed-for-circulation/

[still_one]

1. bullshit. They should not allow it because it is clearly unconstitutional

[NYC_SKP]

7. Disagree. Transparency: watch it fail. It needs signatures before going to the ballot.

All this does is permit him to attempt to gather adequate numbers of signatures to move to the next step:

Attempts to contact him about the new initiative were unsuccessful. But assuming Harris clears the measure for circulation and McLaughlin can come up with the funds for signature-gathering, Californians may be asked sometime this spring to sign petitions that would authorize target practice on some of their fellow citizens.

[rpannier]

10. In the eraly 90's I did a signature collection in California

They paid .75 per signature
Today it's got to be a lot more
He can probably find some group to fund it
But, he would still need people to stand out and try to get people to sign it
That would likely be difficult

[NYC_SKP]

12. Signature gatherers might pay a very steep price trying to collect signatures for that monster.

Anyone willing to try to get them is either a homophobe or seriously desperate for cash, or both.

It's pretty sick, but the system requires access to the tools of democracy, even for bigots.

It will never reach the ballot box.

[drray23]

16. there are a lot of bigots

Now, granted it is california. Still, there are so many hateful and bigoted people that I would not be surprised if that did get signatures. The threshold is apparently 365000 signatures. Hopefully, unlikely to find that many people willing to sign it.

[rpannier]

19. True. There are a lot of bigots

My question would be, 'How many have the time and inclination to stand out there and take the scorn and nasty comments?'

When I collected signatures there was one guy who wouldn't sign.
Said he didn't register because they didn't listen to him
I just shook my head and said, "You wonder why they don't care?"

[CreekDog]

26. the author of that initiative should be disbarred

[NYC_SKP]

27. That is being studied.

I agree, such behaviors can cost him is license to practice, and should.

[cprise]

32. Incitement. The state shouldn't publish their violent trash. n/t

[NYC_SKP]

33. The state is not in power to limit citizens' rights to petition government.

And that is as it should be.

You and I might hate the idea, but the man has a right to try to float his stupid idea and fail.

The state doesn't sit down and pick and chose, and I wouldn't want them to.

[cprise]

34. Incitement isn't protected speech. n/t

[Xithras]

50. Under California law, it actually is in this case.

Proposition 7, which created the initiative system, allows propositions and initiatives to supercede all state laws and even supercedes the power of the state constitution. The legislature is powerless to create any law limiting the scope or reach of propositions in this state. The only way to limit it would be to have the voters back another proposition, and that hasn't been done.

It would be a violation of the state constitution for any agency of the state to try and limit or ban a proposition, even if it includes materials that violate state laws.

Like it or not, that's how it works.

[onenote]

58. And this isn't incitement

See Brandenburg v. Ohio.

[blkmusclmachine]

29. +1000. No more phony/fake "looking forward" while criminals are looting the place.

[jeff47]

77. That's what he's trolling for.

IMO, he is hoping that someone stops him so that he can sue and win a lot of money.

He's copying the Westboro folk's business model.

[roguevalley]

89. I am wondering if NAMBLA submitted one if they'd let it through? THis is mental illness territory

[DisgustipatedinCA]

2. I predict bigots getting punched in the face in front of Safeway stores statewide. nt

[Initech]

62. If I see one I'll gladly give them a giant middle finger.

[NYC_SKP]

3. Well, just shoot me now.

I'm pretty sure that I've broken every element of the proposed initiative.

It's a remarkable asswipe of a thing to do, McLaughlin is clearly a very disturbed individual.

[blazer14]

4. Bet the lawyer votes Republican

Inciting the public to commit murder is got to be illegal...just saying

[Newsjock]

5. People will die because of this

The mere act of circulating the petitions, and the reactions doing so will cause -- either through overt violence, or by wreaking havoc upon the minds of LGBTs who, for whatever reason, might already be troubled.

Disgusting and shameful. The first time I would see a signature gatherer for this, I'm not sure I could control myself. Perhaps the smart thing to do would be to call 9-1-1 and report that the signature gatherer was inciting violence.

[awoke_in_2003]

22. agreed...

it will never pass, but some assholes will take it as inspiration.

[atreides1]

74. Never say never

This could pass...especially if the backers use fancy language to sugar coat what this bill is all about! Do you actually believe that the man pushing this doesn't already have backers lined up?

If they were able to find enough people to sign the anti-gay marriage petition, they'll be able to find the 365,000 signatures they need for this! Then what will California do?

I don't believe this moron just did this on a whim with no support...someone or a group is in the shadows and will provide the money required.

[awoke_in_2003]

84. Good point. nt

[RKP5637]

90. That's my thought too, there is far more to this than one wacko lawyer. He's likely just the

front man. There are plenty of people in CA that might sign this, for example, how gleefully Prop 8 passed into law.

[customerserviceguy]

96. This is a whole different level

With Prop H8, it was about making people who are uneasy with equal marriage squeamish about extending the institution to folks who are 'different'. This is about legalized murder, and it has no chance of getting off the ground, I'm sure it's just a publicity vehicle for the sponsor.

[Bluenorthwest]

100. Is it? Prop 8 got 7,001,084 yes votes pasing with 52.24%

So if 5% of Prop 8 Yes voters sign that initiative it is on the ballot. I'm from CA, the first General Election I voted in had the Briggs Amendment on it. Briggs asked voters if CA should 'Prohibit gays and supporters of gay rights from teaching in public schools.' Briggs failed after a massive effort, polling started at 60% in favor, end result was 58.4% against it. Defeating it was a huge and movement making ordeal. 2,823,293 Californians voted to fire all gay teachers and their supporters.
We'll see. CA is a fickle place, and the liberals there indulge in this thinking that CA is so super liberal, nothing bad ever could happen there. I had Democratic friends openly refuse to oppose Prop 8 loudly because 'it will never pass here, CA is too Blue!' but it passed.

People who say a minority should be fired and given no rights would not also say that minority should be killed? Let me check my history of the lynching era and get back to you on that theory.

[customerserviceguy]

107. All of the other homophobic proposed legislation

involved relatively minor (in the minds of those who supported such legislation) infringements on the freedoms of gay and lesbian people. This one clearly advocates using wanton murder, and even the fundies wouldn't back it.

Even during the era of lynching of black men, do you really think that an initiative could have gotten on the ballot for something as naked as this legislation? Sure, you could have had pro-gun legislation (not that we needed any in that era) that would have appealed to racists who would have hid behind 'self defense' as the reason to allow them to shoot black people, but it would not have openly called for their killing.

It's just a publicity stunt that has the effect of gathering names of ultra-hardcore homophobes to milk for cash.

[valerief]

37. +1000. But then, violence is exactly what they want.

[blkmusclmachine]

47. Yep.

[Blue_Tires]

80. +1

And that is the true purpose of this whole charade...

[PumpkinAle]

6. Where do these people come from?

Harris doesn't have a choice, but may be someone can investigate McLaughlin and his license to practice law revoked for starters.

[rpannier]

8. Let them circulate it

It'll likely not get enough valid signatures
It definitely won't pass an election
There isn't any provision that says you cannot circulate an unconstitutional law, nor should there be
Interpretation of the Constitution changes
It's a BS law, but the anti-gay crowd have failed in California before with measures far less abusive in less pro-gay friendly environments
In the 70's, they got an initiative on the ballot to ban homosexuals from teaching, it failed and by about 15%

[Bluenorthwest]

14. Stopping the Briggs Amendment in the '70's was a massive and movement building effort.

More recently, CA gleefully passed Prop 8. If this initiative was targeting any other minority group DU would not so casually dismiss it.

[rpannier]

18. That was it

Couldn't remember the name of it
I just remembered I was in junior high (maybe 6th grade) and everyone on my street was opposed to it, including the uber conservative family at the front of the court
I was not surprised it failed, partially because I didn't really know anybody who supported it, until I ran into one of my previous teachers.
I liked him and he was a good teacher.
I was stunned when he said he voted for it.
Wasn't surprised at his *ahem* rationale... It was all about the kids. Not molestation or anything. He just thought they were bad role models for boys.

I would have retched, but the initiative failed and I just left it at that

[yardwork]

44. I was thinking the same thing.

If the target of this initiative were any other group, then DU commenters would not be so willing to let the process play out.

[shenmue]

9. Jesus, Mary and Joseph

[PSPS]

11. Another example of how impotent and useless State Bars are.

[RKP5637]

13. Individuals such as this used to be in asylums! n/t

[Ford_Prefect]

15. Alternately they can be found on the membership rolls at some of the most exclusive golf clubs.

They do this because they believe they wear God's divine right on their shoulders.

I suspect, though I do not know, this falls under the heading of inciting the public to acts of violence. Hate speech is not protected.

If it had been posted on a billboard over the freeway,for instance, I suspect it would have been pulled down. Making it a public ballot issue should not alter the effect of calling for and approving murder of a selected group of people. One person may say it as an opinion, but they may not use the public media to advocate that the general public should do so. I suspect this amounts to that kind of action. The question is who has authority to prevent or pull it from circulation.

The proposal is sick and frightening, The language harks back to the laws passed in Germany during the rise of Hitler.

[RKP5637]

17. Yep, the new norm. n/t

[Chan790]

60. Under CA law...

Nobody. Propositions are supreme...no entity or law has the power to curb what may be petitioned onto the ballot as a proposition. It's sacrosanct as free speech.

[dencol]

106. This sure beats what is currently being done.

Making us economic slaves through discrimination and glass ceilings. I'd rather have a clear enemy than a coward that hides behind insidious discrimination.

[salin]

20. What law school educated this guy? Where did he learn that personal bigotry allows

public slayings (per if in 1 yr after charged, if the state doesn't do it - private citizens have the right to commit murder) under the constitution. This guy is clearly a bit psycho. Am curious what law school he graduated from.

Absolutely horrific proposition.

[alfredo]

25. Liberty University law school?

[SwankyXomb]

28. George Mason n/t

[Monk06]

21. If she was in Canada she would be looking at jail time, 2-14 years. Yay Charter of Rights.

[FiveGoodMen]

53. Should be here as well.

[RKP5637]

91. Definitely!!! Often, as the US waves its flag of freedom, opportunity and equality it sanctions

violence and outrageousness against people/targets/groups, because we allow clearly outrageous and contemptuous actions and speech and shout it as freedom of speech. Yes, freedom of speech is great, but along with that should be responsible speech, not just anything goes. The US could learn a lot from Canada IMO.

[awoke_in_2003]

23. Rec for exposure only....

we have some very sick people in this country.

[Tom Ripley]

24. Stochastic terrorism at work

[blkmusclmachine]

30. ^This. Terrorism.^

[SoapBox]

31. This clown is some kind of sicko freak...lock up his ass.

I'm sick and tired of these nut jobs, getting shit like this moving. I want a total refund of my fucking tax dollars for bullshit like this, that cost the state money.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

35. K and R an thanks for the 'heads up'.... nt

[Peace Patriot]

36. Disturbing--and here's something more disturbing:

The corporation that is running most of the vote counting systems in this country--ES&S (which bought out Diebold)--systems run on 'TRADE SECRET' programming code that they own and control, and that we are forbidden by law to review--was initially funded by rightwing billionaire nutjob Howard Ahmanson, who also gave one millions dollars to the rightwing Christian nutjob Chalcedon Foundation, which advocates the death penalty for homosexuals!

California's Secretary of State ran ES&S/Diebold out of California--or seemed to--not long ago, but they may have sneaked back in. Whether they have or haven't, and despite California having a relatively good Sec of State--who runs a bad, bad system as well as it could be run--this insane-sounding initiative may have connection to the Chalcedon foundation or other fascist entities with ties to ES&S/Diebold or other e-voting corporations. Things like this--quite insane things like our unelected Congress is doing, or whackjobs like Scott Walker are doing--don't come out of nowhere. They are generated by these fascist organizations in order to control the political narrative and bend it, wherever possible, as far fascist as possible. This particular initiative is so very like the Chalcedon foundation position--kill the gays!--that I'm thinking the connection may be direct and that, further, with enough money the signatures might well be obtainable, and, given the privatization of our vote counting system, the vote is most certainly riggable. i think Prop. 8 was rigged. And I'm pretty sure that Schwarzenegger was rigged. Targeted riggings--if and when the fascist powers decide they want something done. Could just be a propaganda intention (to distort the political dialogue). Could be a rigging intention--though it seems a bit too wild for that. But...is our unelected Congress not wild-eyed? How about some of the other wild-eyed assholes in power in state governments?

Until we return our vote counting to the PUBLIC VENUE, we are going to continue to have these crazy, destructive, unelected people seizing power, pushing insane ideas.

[blkmusclmachine]

48. #14 on 14 Defining Characteristics of fascism:

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

[Zambero]

38. By golly, a Westboro Baptist chapter in Orange County

Getting closer to Sharia Law here. ISIS would certainly approve as well.

[Paladin]

39. Yet another in a growing list.....

....of news items I'm bookmarking for use, the next time some smug West Coast type slams the State of Texas as a backwards, homophobic shithole. Remove the beams from your own eyes, Californians.....

[RKP5637]

92. There is a lot of homophobia in CA. The propaganda covers it up, but CA is far from a totally happy

mellow diversity loving place.

[wryter2000]

40. If it circulates

I hope someone asks me to sign. His/her ears will ring for an hour.

[Calista241]

41. Is this like an early April Fool's joke?

[hifiguy]

42. This will be laughed out of the state but the more pertinent question

is why this obviously delusional, paranoid and psychotic individual is not locked away in a secure facility for the criminally insane.

[TeamPooka]

43. the spotlight of examination must shine on lawyer Matt McLaughlin.

Let's take a close look at this guy's life and career, shall we?
more info about him here.
http://samuel-warde.com/2015/03/california-lawyer-proposes/

[azurnoir]

45. apparently the words incitement and hate speech have no meaning?

because that initiative is absolutely both

[blkmusclmachine]

46. The Christian reconstructionists promised to bring their Uganda law back to the U.S., and here it is

Next, they go after atheists, unwed mothers, and "wayward" children, just like they tried in Arkansas:

Republican Candidate In Arkansas Says Parents Should Seek Death Penalty Against ‘Rebellious Children’

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/10/08/974321/republican-candidate-in-arkansas-says-parents-should-seek-death-penalty-for-rebellious-children/

[workinclasszero]

57. Homegrown sharia law is okay..carrying a cross, wrapped in the flag, in the name of "god"

I shudder to think what will happen in this country if the so-called "christian" fascists win in 2016 and gain total control of the government.

Stoning to death of gay people for starters?

Naw couldn't happen here...could it???

[christx30]

49. Where are these terrible,

poisonous people coming from?
Oh, yes. The GOP keeps cutting the education budget

[FiveGoodMen]

55. It's the 'education' they're getting on Sunday that causes the problem.

[christx30]

56. Everyone reviles those "God hates F*gs" people,

but you get this person, who puts out a law that most of the religious right would support. I can't tell the difference between the Phelps clan and this person.
I mean... is there much of a difference between "We hate f*gs" and "we want to kill the f*gs"?

[FiveGoodMen]

67. I was really talking about those who support this ... person

If they used one milliliter of empathy, they wouldn't get on board with this.

But, they've been promised that god approves. And they were dumb enough to believe it.

[christx30]

68. They been brainwashed to believe that

God will hate them forever and throw them in Hell for any kind of gay acceptance. That's why you see those bakers and the florists refuse to participate in any way in same sex weddings. "I won't have anything to do with that."

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

51. Matt is a teapartier, what you wanna bet

[Trillo]

104. Not clear, there seems to be very little publicly-available information

about him beyond this ballot proposal.

[IronLionZion]

52. Inciting deadly violence is not protected by the constitution

especially when it violates established laws against such violence.

[FiveGoodMen]

54. Just hypothetitcally...

Could someone who felt strongly about it put up a 'Shoot the Christians' bill?

Would $200 be all it takes to force the AG to clear that for circulation?

If not, why the difference?

[Chan790]

61. Yes.

The AG would have to treat it the same as any other proposition, she's not allowed to pick and chose what circulates...if you can get 365,000 signatures for it, it goes on the ballot.

It, like this, would never be implemented if passed...but it would go on the ballot.

[Starry Messenger]

59. Disgusting. Our initiative process needs some overhaul.

[vlakitti]

63. Very few people, however stupid or bigotted...

are going to sign this kind of petition. Under demand, California will have to publish these names of signatures. Remember Prop 8?

These creeps use money and hide in the dark, but won't come out in public and talk their poison.

It's not respectable, after all.

[Ken Burch]

64. I'm pretty sure you're not actually allowed to start a petition making it mandatory to kill people.

Best case scenario: This guy just wants to get hired at the Russian consulate in LA.

[mopinko]

94. yeah, i am sure she has plenty of grounds to refuse it beside constitutionality.

you cant have a law recommending a capitol offense. case closed.
now lock the asshole up in a nice soft room.

[geek tragedy]

65. Open it up to comments, then spy on anyone who signs it

as a likely domestic terrorist.

[davidpdx]

66. What about a flog the homophobics initiative?

[AlbertCat]

69. Since it is clearly ridiculous

it should be treated as a hoax....so they don't spend valuable time and money on such a hoax.

[FiveGoodMen]

70. I don't see the logical path from 'ridiculous' to 'hoax'

It's ridiculous when certain countries ban music, dancing, driving (for women), being gay (Uganda's push for kill-the-gays laws, for example) and so on.

Nevertheless, they do so and oppress, imprison, and even kill people because of it.

Those laws are ridiculous, but they are not hoaxes.

[AlbertCat]

71. Those laws are ridiculous, but they are not hoaxes.

They're also not in this country.

But HERE, this "shoot gays so god won't make the rest of us suffer" is not something to be even remotely taken seriously and therefore is not worth the tax payer's dime or their government's time.

and therefore treated LIKE a hoax.


Not hard to get.

[FiveGoodMen]

72. There are many citizens of this country who would also support such laws

They haven't reached a majority yet, but they show no signs of going away.

One of the best ways to make something terrible happen is to tell everyone it CAN'T happen.

[AlbertCat]

73. There are many citizens of this country who would also support such laws

No there aren't.... compared to the general population.

It's clearly not worth spending time and money on.

It's MORE than unconstitutional. It's ABSURD.... and impossible.

I suppose every nutty impossible law a 5 year old or mental health patient comes up with should be scrupulously considered. I don't think this is what the CA law intended or was about. Prop 8 was crap.... but did not call for extermination, y'know.


Jesus!

[wingzeroday]

79. Countries that impose the death penalty for homosexuality

Mauritania, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Iran.

This does not include nations where militant controlled areas also have an unofficial policy.

[PersonNumber503602]

85. I'm thinking it's not meant to be taken seriously, and is primarily meant to upset proplr.

My thoughts are typical antisocial internet troll taking his antics to the real world. Although, the fact he put his name on it, makes me think that his anti-gay feelings are real, and he probably thought it would be funny to his friends or something. I doubt he would find it too amusing if someone did something similar with a shoot the Christians theme.

[jeff47]

78. That's what he wants, so he can get a big payday.

IMO, he wants the state to block it so that he can sue and win a lot of money. It's the same business model as the Westboro Baptist Church.

[jtuck004]

75. What would be the charge for pouring pig's blood on someone who tried to hand me this to sign? n/t

[wingzeroday]

76. This guy?

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jan/12/local/me-bibleman12


Also is the OP link dead?

[kiranon]

81. Publicize names of all who sign petition.

[smirkymonkey]

95. I think that would be a good idea.

honestly, what on earth is wrong with some people?

[Chemisse]

98. Signing a petition like this could be used as evidence later on

If anyone wound up dead near that person.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

82. Well, this proves that the right wing nut jobs aren't all in the south

geesh.

[KamaAina]

102. Well, he is in Southern California.

[Arthur_Frain]

83. Great

More somebody using their magic book to justify hatred and violence.

Tell me again how "peaceful" christianity is when compared to islam?

[riversedge]

87. Calling for some to be killed and it can not be stopped? What have we become? The

world is laughing at the U. S. again.

[samsingh]

88. could we circulate a similar petition covering conservatives?

[treestar]

93. Trying to get attention

No one should mention his name. He's trying to get his name to be generally known. Put him back into obscurity.

[Chemisse]

97. Nevermind whether it's legal to submit this.

How is it legal to incite violence? How is this not promoting terrorism? Would the reaction be a little more aggressive if it was to shoot some other group that is not so demonized by so many?

[NorthCarolina]

99. So, only $200 for a Shoot The Homophobic and Self Loathing Fundamentalists Initiative???

Sounds like a steal of a deal.

[HassleCat]

101. One Subject

The attorney general should be able to throw this out. California has a "single subject" provision for ballot initiatives. This one seems to violate that provision, because it includes a bunch of different provisions.

[KamaAina]

103. Find someone circulating this trash

and sign it, giving an address in another county. Bingo! That entire petition is invalidated.

[Zorra]

105. I wonder if McLaughlin masturbates to fantasies of executing LGBT persons.

He is clearly a very emotionally and psychologically disturbed, and dangerous, individual.

[HoosierCowboy]

108. An initiative to shoot

Last edited Tue Mar 24, 2015, 10:39 AM - Edit history (1)

all closet gay lawyers from Huntington Beach in the head ought to be on the ballot right next to it. Or replace the word "Gay" with the word "Jew"