Justices reject appeal by US flag-wearing students

[DonViejo]

Source: ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court has denied an appeal from former California high school students who were ordered to turn their American flag T-shirts inside out during a celebration of the Cinco de Mayo holiday at school.

The justices did not comment Monday in leaving in place an appellate ruling that found that school officials acted appropriately because their concerns about racial violence outweighed students’ freedom of expression rights. Administrators feared the American-flag shirts would enflame the passions of Latino students celebrating the Mexican holiday.

The onetime students at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill, California, argued that school officials gave a “heckler’s veto” to the objecting students.

The brother and sister who won a landmark Vietnam era student speech case at the Supreme Court also supported the appeal.

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Read more: http://www.salon.com/2015/03/30/justices_reject_appeal_by_us_flag_wearing_students/

[merrily]

1. Interesting and complicated! Rec for visibility.

[spoutinghorn]

7. Wearing an American flag

t-shirt on Cinco de Mayo is a brazen affront to Latino's who live in this country.

It is racist sign of White Privilege and cannot be tolerated.

[Igel]

27. Because all Latinos observe Cinco de Mayo.

Because, as is well known, all Latinos are from Mexico.

Nuance is needed. As well as tolerance: I suppose anybody flying a Mexican flag (especially those patriotic Guatelamalans and Salvadorans) on the 4th of July should fear violence, and justly so. I find that reprehensible.

The problem is the school had a problem with potential violence. And the solution, endorsed by the courts, was to shut up protestors.

Years ago some KKK folk marched in Skokie. It was contentious. Similarly, decades before that black civil rights leaders and supporters marched in areas that weren't exactly friendly. Violence could have broken out and in some cases did. Both were a good thing. If you're never confronted with dissent you learn that you don't need to tolerate it; if you learn that threats of violence squelch dissent, you learn that threats of violence get you a reward. This is a retreat from free speech and a concession, albeit in a small state-sponsored institution, to letting there mere fear of violence suppress speech.

[Sparhawk60]

30. Nice Bridge...

That's a nice bridge you live under. I love how you spruced it up with flowers.

[rurallib]

2. I so remember the Vietnam protest case - Tinker v. Des Moines

I was about that age.

So now discrimination is accepted free speech, but protest shirts are not.
Velcome to Mericah!

[Orrex]

3. It's not an across-the-board ban; it's a restriction of clothing at the school

Schools are afforded wide latitude in deciding what constitutes "appropriate" attire within the context of the school's activities.

[Romeo.lima333]

6. it's NOT an across-the-board ban that's the problem

you cant say that people who want to wear a mexican-flag is ok but those who want to wear an american flag cant. theyve singled out one group and said you can wear what you want and then they singled out another group and said you cant wear what you want

[Orrex]

8. I don't believe that that's the case.

theyve singled out one group and said you can wear what you want and then they singled out another group and said you cant wear what you want

Really? Did they actually target and suppress a particular group of students, or did they target and restrict a particular type of clothing?

Everything I've read about it suggests the latter.

[Romeo.lima333]

11. they did both. by saying you students cant wear an american flag he singled out those students

if he's gonna put restrictions on clothing it needs to be across the board. no flags by any group. sometimes it's hard to see clearly if your defending an outcome you already agree with

[Orrex]

12. Your statement is incorrect

if he's gonna put restrictions on clothing it needs to be across the board. no flags by any group.

Why in the world should that be the case? Please support your assertion, and please do so in a way that persuasively contradicts the multiple court rulings that have already contradicted you on this issue.

sometimes it's hard to see clearly if your defending an outcome you already agree with

Sauce for the goose. You're doing the same thing, attacking an outcome with which you already disagree.

[cosmicone]

14. It is the nature of protest and its intent that is important here.

The American flag wearing students were doing it to be incendiary to a minority's rights which could have led to violence. They were not protesting for better rights or against some injustice.

How would you like "I heart slavery" T-shirts on MLK day?

[Larry Engels]

17. Is this supposed to be the "Clear and Present Danger" test?

Then should Mexican kids in US schools be prohibited from displaying the Mexican flag on a US patriotic holiday? Why not? Is it because the non-Latino kids wouldn't stage a riot?

[jeff47]

16. They didn't say "you students can't wear an American flag".

They said "you students can't deliberately piss off other students."

These students wore the flag shirts with the deliberate intent to anger other students. Who were committing the horrific act of not being white.

They can wear those American flag shirts all they want in other situations. They don't want to wear the shirts in other situations, because the entire point of wearing the shirt was to say "filthy Mexicans!"

[Orrex]

20. ^^That

[font color="white"]XXX[/font]
[font color="white"]XXXXXX[/font]
[font color="white"]XXXXXXXXX[/font]
[font color="white"]XXXXXXXXXXXX[/font]

[Romeo.lima333]

21. that's exactly what they said "you students can't wear an American flag".

they were trying to exercise the same free speech given to others reasons are really relevent

[jeff47]

24. :facepalm:

Again, the restriction was based on the situation in which those students put themselves. Flag shirts were not banned for all time. Only during that celebration, because the students wearing the shirts were attempting to insult other students.

But please, do continue to get this completely wrong and attempt to call it reverse racism and banning the flag. Throw in a few "libtards" while you're at it.

[Romeo.lima333]

25. free speech is free speech whether we agree with what's being expressed or not

and if youre gonna allow it with one group then you need to allow it with all groups or better yet save the celebration for when youre out of school.

[jeff47]

26. Minors do not have full free speech rights.

So you can stop beating that drum of stupidity.

Second, the intent was to provoke a fight. Not to "speak".

Third, the celebration was a school event. You can't hold that after school.

Fourth, you are arguing that the flag-wearing students should have full free speech protection, but the celebratory students are second-class citizens who need to have their speech outside school. Betraying that you don't actually want to give free speech rights to all students in all situations.

[cstanleytech]

5. Sounds like they are looking at it like a Schenck v. United States

though.

[Romeo.lima333]

4. hypocrisy

because their concerns about outweighed students’ freedom of expression rights. Administrators feared the American-flag shirts would en flame the passions of Latino students celebrating the Mexican holiday.

concerns about racial violence doesnt stop the kkk from marching, theyre still allowed.

Administrators feared the American-flag shirts would en flame the passions of Latino students celebrating the Mexican holiday. what about the "fears" that the mexican flag would en flame the "passions" of the american students

you dont get to choose side with freedom of speech, oh ,but i guess you do now

[Orrex]

9. That comparison is irrelevant.

concerns about racial violence doesnt stop the kkk from marching, theyre still allowed.

At public schools? On public school property? No? Then the comparison is irrelevant.

If you have modern examples (i.e., within the past 20 years or so) of KKK marches taking place at public K-12 schools, I would be interested to read about them.

[alp227]

10. I live near there and have some takes on this,

differing from the many right wing trolls on local news sites: (I originally posted a thread in LBN but it was locked for being duplicate).

- There's no denying a possible "chilling effect" because of this case. What happened to the Supreme Court after cases like Tinker v. Des Moines?

- The school's argument regarding violence on Cinco de Mayo has an insulting "blame the victim" tone. Then again, so do lots of school dress codes against girls "showing too much". But in a super litigious era, cash-strapped schools are desperate to prevent super costly lawsuits from parents of students victimized by violence.

- That said, just because it may be legal for these boys to be dog-whistle bigoted clowns doesn't make it ethical. As Roger Ebert put it: "Kids who wear American Flag t-shirts on 5 May should have to share a lunchroom table with those who wear a hammer and sickle on 4 July." I would add: those who would wear a "Free Palestine" shirt in public on Rosh Hashanah. Or "Protestant Pride" T-shirt on Good Friday.

- And as PZ Myers put it further regarding Ebert's statement:

...here’s the funny thing: what were they protesting? The fact that Mexican-American students are proud of their heritage? That’s where the cowardice of these students shows up — that is a ridiculous and petty thing to complain about. Do they also show up on St Patrick’s Day in orange, flogging leprechaun dolls?

[groundloop]

13. Good points.... and as I recall there were groups of white students attempting to incite

I recall reading about this case some time ago, and as I remember it there was a group of white students that were trying to incite the Mexican kids and the way they were doing it was to wear American flag t-shirts as a group. The school administration didn't "outlaw" American flag t-shirts as many have been led to believe, but simply told that group of white kids to ditch the t-shirts for one day.

IMO the school administration had a responsibility above all else to nip possible violence in the bud and they saw this as a reasonable way to do it.

[Larry Engels]

18. Cinco de Mayo is not an important holiday in Mexico

Cinco De Mayo Is A 100-Percent American Celebration, Says David Hayes-Bautista, UCLA Professor (VIDEO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/04/cinco-de-mayo-american-celebration_n_1478142.html

[geek tragedy]

15. so schools can ban students from wearing shirts with Arabic script or the start of david

due to the heckler's veto?

[Larry Engels]

19. It would be a lot better if we all just wore uniforms.

Like the coveralls for Party members in 1984.

[Jake Stern]

23. Thinking the same thing.

Guessing the reaction to the case would be very different if the school, citing fear of violence, demanded a student remove a pro-Palestine shirt.

[Sheldon Cooper]

22. Are they allowed to wear Cinco de Quatro shirts?

[ripcord]

28. They can't control things on this campus?

A flag will promote violence? Maybe the problem isn't with the ones wearing the flags.

[graegoyle]

31. Just my opinion:

I despise the commercialization of patriotism and hate these flag shirts.

That said, I completely disagree with banning these shirts.