82nd's Gen. Jeffrey A. Sinclair removed from job in Afghanistan

[bathroommonkey76]

Source: Fayetteville Observer

The Army is investigating Brig. Gen. Jeffrey A. Sinclair, who has been reassigned from Afghanistan back to Fort Bragg, officials said Friday.

Earlier this month, Sinclair was removed from his job as the 82nd Airborne Division's deputy commanding general for support in Afghanistan. He had been deputy commander since July 2010.

"This is a criminal investigation," said Ben Abel, a Fort Bragg spokesman.

Sinclair has returned to Fort Bragg for his assignment as special assistant to the commanding general of the 18th Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg, Abel said.

The incident is the first in recent memory in which a Fort Bragg general was removed from a position and investigated.

Read more: http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2012/05/11/1176788?sac=fo.local

[roscoeroscoe]

1. yikes, this is heavy.

thanks for the news.

[bathroommonkey76]

2. I am surprised no one else posted this story. nt

[MADem]

3. CRIMINAL investigation? What the hell did he do?

I tried to do a little due diligence, and all I came up with is that this guy shares a name with a character on the tv show BABYLON 5!

[bathroommonkey76]

4. Could it have something to do with this story?

http://www.mediaite.com/online/military-investigating-photos-of-soldiers-posing-next-to-suicide-bomber-corpses/


A U.S. soldier serving with the 82nd Airborne’s 4th Brigade Combat Team based in Ft. Bragg released the photos to the paper “to draw attention to the safety risk of a breakdown in leadership and discipline,” according to reporter David Zucchino.

[pinto]

5. Sounds likely.

I see no further info will be provided until investigation/case is closed/resolved.

[caseymoz]

13. Until or unless he's court-marshalled

Then it becomes public. If he's not court-marshalled or punished, we'll probably never what this is about.

How I wish ordinary citizens got this kind of protection rather than have the charges released directly to the press. But I guess that's unavoidable that we don't.

[bathroommonkey76]

16. I read a story recently about about a soldier who admitted to having sex with 4 underage girls.

The military sent him packing with a general discharge. Local authorities were not contacted because he wasn't court-marshalled or punished while at Bragg. His wife was the reason the story came out into the public view. How sad is that?


Charges not filed in underage sex case involving former Fort Bragg soldier


http://fayobserver.com/articles/2012/05/10/1173309?sac=fo.local


There is no telling how many of these guys are walking the streets. The Army needs to get their act together and start sharing this type of information with law enforcement.

I know this doesn't relate to to the story at hand, but it does touch on your comment about court-marshals.

[caseymoz]

24. Underage girls, not children.

However, maybe the reporter was using the term loosely. If that's the case, we don't know whether the girls in question were four or seventeen. If the latter, they'd have been only 3-4 years younger than he was.

I think it was close to the latter, because while the Uniform Code of Military Justice has a specific section on rape (which would include child molesting), it doesn't say anything about statutory rape. Which means that any punishment they gave him could only be non-judicial. At worst, that would involve maybe some time in the brig, and then discharge. Since he got a general and a not a bad conduct, I take it his military evaluations were very good. Up until he screwed these girls.

You should not presume from this news that he's pedophile. He's likely a hebephile. Preferring mid-adolescent girls. It's contemptible, but it's but it's nowhere near as bad or worrisome as child molesting, and he likely won't do this again. This guy's physical preference likely overlaps with adult women. It's not like a child molester, who absolutely can't stop, and who can't get sexual satisfaction from an adult.

But you're right. There are a lot of guys in the military who have sex with underage girls. Most of them, however, do it overseas where the age of consent is sometimes lower, or where they could otherwise get away with it, but they never do it at home. If the military had a rule against statutory rape, they'll probably have to prosecute tens of thousands of men. People in the military are well aware of this, which is why the punishment looks so light.

The only difference here is this guy chose to do it here, so the military couldn't ignore it.

[bathroommonkey76]

25. The story said he was 20-21 years of age at the time this incidents took place.

The documents from Fort Stewart show that the former soldier told investigators of sexual encounters with:

A 14-year-old girl on a trampoline at her home near the Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. plant. He met the girl through a friend who found her on Myspace, an online site similar to Facebook.

A 15-year-old Hope Mills girl in his car in Hope Mills Park. He met the girl at a Walmart in Hope Mills.

A 14-year-old Spring Lake girl in a car in front of her house and in an apartment complex parking lot off Raeford Road. They met at a Checkers restaurant.

A 14-year-old Fayetteville girl in her home near Strickland Bridge Road. They met at a bowling alley.

Under North Carolina law, a person who has intercourse with a child between the ages of 13 and 15 - and who is at least six years older than the child - is guilty of statutory rape, a Class B1 felony. The only exception is if the two are lawfully married.


So four possible cases of statutory rape. Whatever the case/reasons are this man should be in jail and not walking on the streets a free man.

[caseymoz]

26. And as I said, in agreement with you . . . .

. . . it was probably statutory rape, which isn't any felony under the UCMJ, which is what a soldier would fall under.

Please pay attention to this: The only time he would be turned over to a civilian court is if what he did a crime under US military law, UCMJ. He would have to face court-marshall first, at least.

Yes, he should be in jail, except there is no law against what he did in the jurisdiction he fell under. You can't put somebody in jail for committing an act that is a crime in a different jurisdiction, and any military personnel is under military law, which, no matter where the act is committed, supersedes state law. You can read the UCMJ, and there is nothing in it about statutory rape. Zilch.

There is a section on rape, but that's only if the sex was not consensual. This was apparently consensual, just not between full adults. For the military, that doesn't qualify as illegal.

So, shoulda woulda coulda all you want, he still walks.

Don't write a whole message to me in all bolds. I'm just trying to inform you how he beat the rap. It's standard military justice. Nothing extraordinary here. The military necessarily sees the Age of Consent and Age of Majority differently than civilian statutes do. If he had molested a child, he would have first been court-marshaled for rape and sodomy, and then turned over to civilian authorities.

So, don't treat this like I'm all for what he did. I didn't say sex with a minor was okay; I said it was contemptible. You don't have to inform me it's a felony in most jurisdictions outside the military. I'm a hetero male over fifty, single for life; I know these things.

However, I will tell you that in Canada until the mid-2000s, the Age of Consent was 14. In my state it was 13 until the 1970s, 15 until the 80s.

I did say did say his acts were better, and a little less threatening to the public than child molestation, (other than the fact he did it four times). Still not good, not moral, not legal, except in the military.

Again, don't write a whole message in bold please. It's almost as obnoxious as all caps. Just use it for emphasis. If you feel compelled to emphasize your entire message, check your blood pressure and wait a day.

[bathroommonkey76]

29. I didn't mean to write the message in BOLD.

I was trying to get the story into a block for you to read. I'm still learning this site and haven't figured out that part as of yet... Are there any tutorial DU threads on here for me to look over? Thanks.

As for the el creepo that molested these young girls. I will have to say that he deserves to be in jail. My point of view is that of a citizen that lives in this area where these rapes occurred. I'm not 1000 miles away piddling my thumbs pretending to care. These people around here are my neighbors and if something this obscene happened here in the civilian world there would be a manhunt for this person.

Fayetteville is a very creepy place. A few days ago a marine training at Ft. Bragg was arrested for something very similar:

Marine accused of raping 12-year-old girl


http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/11088290/


Could there be some strange type of network going on in the ranks of the military? It wouldn't surprise me.


Fayetteville/Cumberland County also has the third largest sex offender population in the state of North Carolina.

The Shania Davis story also brought people out of their chairs with flaming torches for the mother who was accused of prostituting her daughter a couple of years back. She ended up dead after some guy molested her at a local motel.

I will also bring up the sex trafficking case that happened 2 years ago in Fayetteville.

Fayetteville pair charged with human trafficking

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/8646856/


Those two were charged with human trafficking of prostitutes to a seedy Army "massage parlor".


I doubt this man will walk. Now that the story is out in the world I am positive that the Fay police will open up an investigation- if they haven't already.

[caseymoz]

35. Sorry, then.

You'll see "blockquote" in the top center, just below the "Reply title:" line whenever you bring up the reply screen. Highlight your text, then click on "blockquote" button.

There's a second way to do it, but it's a pain in the ass, and you could end up block quoting your whole message. Bring your cursor to the beginning of the text you want to emphasize, click on "blockquote." The button will change and look like this: "/blockquote. Now put the cursor on the end of the text, click on "/blockquote." The button will change back, and tour text will then be blocked

There is a third even harder way to do it, but I'll let figure that out. I'll answer the rest of your message later. I'm out of time.

[eomer]

30. That doesn't appear to be correct - civilian law does apply.

If a crime violates both military and state civilian law, it may be tried by a military court, a civilian court or both. Usually the two systems will coordinate to decide where the service member should be prosecuted. A military member can't be tried for the same misconduct by both a military court and another federal court. He can be tried for the same misconduct by both a military court and a state court.

http://military-law.lawyers.com/Military-Law-Basics/Military-Versus-Civilian-Court-Authority.html

I'm just going by what I found in a quick search but it does look like a definitive answer by a source one would think wouldn't be mistaken on such a fundamental question.

So according to this a soldier could be tried for statutory rape under the laws of the state where the conduct occurred. Which I would sure hope would be the case.

[14thColony]

36. You're correct

Double jeopardy protections do not apply to uniformed members of the military. They can be tried twice for the same crime, even if found guilty by whichever jurdistiction went first. In practice this rarely happens, however.

[obamanut2012]

34. The civilian authorities should have been called on this case

The Fayetteville and Cumberland County LEOs and authorities work very closely with Bragg and Pope AFB. These rapes were committed on civilian minors on civilian property. There is no excuse.

[obamanut2012]

33. For anyone who knows Fayetteville, NC

These locations are all over Cumberland County, some quite a ways from Ft. Bragg. This guy is a sexual predator, and needs to be arrested by the civilian authorities.

[gejohnston]

27. The UCMJ calls it "cardinal knowledge"

in article 120, but is still statutory rape for all practical purposes. The legal age is 16.
The reason he got a general instead of a BCD or dishonorable was because the latter two require a general court martial conviction.
There seems to be a double standard in that it reads that it only applies to men. I'm guessing that congress has not reviewed it since the 1950s, when the UCMJ was created.

But you're right. There are a lot of guys in the military who have sex with underage girls. Most of them, however, do it overseas where the age of consent is sometimes lower, or where they could otherwise get away with it, but they never do it at home. If the military had a rule against statutory rape, they'll probably have to prosecute tens of thousands of men. People in the military are well aware of this, which is why the punishment looks so light.

Really? In 1953 maybe.

[wordpix]

31. for an all volunteer Army where no one wants to volunteer in these endless wars

the Army is scraping the barrel to get whoever can walk, drive or hold a rifle. That includes people with mental problems who only need a battle or two to push them over the edge.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

37. Oh shut up n/t

[gejohnston]

28. I wish we did too, but

trial by media is frowned upon in the military for a couple of reasons. One is that it is unethical, second is that poisoning the jury pool (or command influence) is a reversible error. For a Brigadier, the jury pool is pretty small.

[MADem]

7. Failures of leadership are not, in and of themselves, criminal.

I don't think that's it. I could be wrong.

Maybe he was skimming off the top?



Here he is posing with a nice fat check for the local warlords....

[bathroommonkey76]

8. hahaha Are you sure that wasn't the local check presentation for the Afghan Lottery? haha

[MADem]

10. I found it at Army Times--they were essentially recycling the report you cited.

When they say "criminal" they don't mean poor leadership. They mean the guy did something blatantly illegal, like stole, or assaulted, or murdered, or something on those lines.

He's been shoved in a SPECASST job for now (unlikely that he killed anyone, then--there'd be pre-trial confinement in that case, I should think) but it's entirely possible that he was abusing subordinates in some fashion....or stealing.

I don't know anyone in that millieu who could answer the question--I've been gone too long to have any connections!

[bathroommonkey76]

12. Over the years these guys have gotten away with all sorts of crimes.

I hope that if he didn't something "illegal" that he pays for what he did. There are too many good servicemen and women that are commanded by these 'untouchable' officers and generals.

[MADem]

15. I don't know a thing about this guy except that he was on a good track.

Commissioned in 85, he must have hit every milestone in terms of assignments and advanced education and joint tours, and gotten sweet fitreps to hit BGEN and have the job he had. He must have had a mentor along the way as well. Sure, there was lots of opportunity owing to a wartime footing, but there was lots of competition as well--it's a big playing field and he was doing well.

There's just too little information to know what was going on with the guy. I will admit I am VERY curious--the guy is fast tracking, in a good operational assignment that, done well, will lead to better and more visible things, presumably....what would cause anyone to blow it? Why risk some potentially fantastic future assignments by doing anything that would compromise your integrity?

Something is 'off' here--I just don't know what.

[freshwest]

9. Is that real? There were stories of warlords getting $$$ and buying mansions in other nations.

A lot of American tax dollars are going directly into the hands of some of the worst actors.

[MADem]

11. It's a pic from Army Times....the guy is a "businessman" per the blurb.

The caption reads as follows:

Army Brig. Gen. Jeffrey A. Sinclair, left, 82nd Airborne Division and Regional Command (South) deputy commanding general of support, presents a check to an Afghan businessman last December for improvements to his park in Bag-E-Pol, Zharay district, Kandahar province.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/05/army-bragg-82nd-airborne-jeffrey-sinclair-1-star-under-investigation-051212w/

[freshwest]

21. Sounds legit to me. People are getting blown to pieces over there. Long-term contracts, conflicts of

Interest here and there. Maybe all the same, as these are international groups.

I suspect those who feel they will profit from the contracts will vote accordingly. The system of merit has returned to one of patronage, although the military may have always been that way.

[Lasher]

17. I hope this is a sign something is finally being done about that.

Billions in cash flees Afghanistan, economy threatened

Tue Mar 13, 2012

In an interview with Reuters, deputy central bank governor Khan Afzal Hadawal said confidence in the economy had eroded to such a degree over more than a decade of war that cash was pouring out of Afghanistan in suitcases and carry-on bags, taken to safe havens in Dubai and elsewhere.

<snip>

Hadawal estimated that up to $8 billion in cash leaves Afghanistan's airports every year, half of it from Kabul alone.

"The $8 billion being taken out is double the total assets of the (central) bank," said Hadawal. It is also nearly double the size of last year's national budget.

A U.S. government audit report last year found it was almost impossible to track where much of the billions of dollars spent on security and development projects in the last decade had gone given the country's dysfunctional financial tracking system and poor bank oversight.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/13/us-afghanistan-economy-idUSBRE82C0DJ20120313

[freshwest]

20. Yes, that's what I was talking about. I hope this stops it.

[wordpix]

32. you only have to read the news to know Afghan. is rife with corruption & it's true that's where

some of our tax dollars go, according to well researched reports in WaPo and NYTimes.

[caseymoz]

14. Looks like a fundamental design error in Afghan currency.

No wonder the economy isn't going anywhere. Imagine having to use a bill that size to buy a loaf of bread.

[Diclotican]

18. MADem

MADem

AH, that Sinclair... hehe yea B5...

Diclotican

[Aynawneemuss]

38. Insider info

Adultery, Fraternization, possible physical abuse

[MADem]

39. I have to admit that that's what crossed my mind when they whisked him away but didn't throw him in

jail. If there's murder afoot, there's often pre-trial confinement, but if it's an abuse of authority situation, they're simply banished to a non-job job in a HQ.

Welcome to DU, btw.

[originalpckelly]

6. He's been sent to Minbar to be an ambassador and lead the rangers.

[Gore1FL]

19. You beat me to it!

I was going to suggest he was being replaced by John Sheridan.

[Joey Liberal]

22. What has happened to the Army and the 82nd?

The 82nd used to be a respected unit with great leadership. I hope they promote BG Charlie Flynn to two-star and put him in command of the Eighty Deuce. Don't know him well but I think he's a great soldier as is his older brother MG Mike Flynn. After the Pat Tillman disgrace, the Army needs a new generation of good, honest leaders like the Flynn's. The soldiers and their families deserve it.

[GP6971]

23. The Army Times

Just has short couple paragraphs. Les detail than what has been posted here