TransPacific Partnership trade negotiations resume in Atlanta

[nationalize the fed]

Source: The Canadian Press

ATLANT, Ga. – Negotiations on the TransPacific Partnership, a massive free-trade proposal involving Canada and 11 other nations, will resume in Atlanta, Georgia today.

Chief negotiators from the 12 countries, which have a combined population of 800 million people, will hold sessions through to Tuesday. And those meetings will set the stage for further talks involving TPP trade ministers on Wednesday, Sept., 29 and Thursday, Oct., 30.

Canada’s supply management system has been a significant sore point in the ongoing negotiations.

The United States and New Zealand, in particular, have been pressuring Canada to reduce its tariffs on foreign dairy products, which are among the highest of all TPP members...

Read more: http://www.news1130.com/2015/09/26/transpacific-partnership-trade-negotiations-resume-in-atlanta/

[unhappycamper]

1. Our Corporate Overloards Need A Break From Regulations

And a Corporate Court would insure that will happen.

[HooptieWagon]

2. The Corporate Court (ISDS)...

...will also force KXL to be built whether the people and legislature want it or not. So a candidate pledging to oppose KXL is just spewing bullshit unless they also are against TPP.
The same goes for any other environmental or worker safety regulations...all will be subject to ISDS decisions. So far, only one candidate has come out in full opposition to TPP...Bernie Sanders.

[Moliere]

6. +1000 to this ^

[Hoyt]

7. NAFTA has the same dispute mechanism. I don't see any movement to try

to push the pipeline through using that.

In fact, the dispute mechanism typically results in payment of damages, assuming a corporation is successful, which is rare. The laws are not changed.

[msanthrope]

8. Don't bring facts and history into this. nt

[Joe Turner]

28. A HRC supporter agreeing with a well known DU corporate Flak?

Tell me it's not true!!! but of course it is. The arrow in Hillary's big H pointing to the right is laughably too true. I like Bernie's logo with the arrow going to the left. It signifies power to the people, not corporations.

[davidpdx]

30. It's clear which candidate and supporters back the corporations

Especially when they defend NAFTA and TPP.

[msanthrope]

38. Welcome to DU! Which DUer is a corporate flak? nt

[Joe Turner]

39. Thanks I have been a DU member since 2007

If you cannot recognize who is the corporate flak you must be one too. Your support of HRC a corporate flak if there ever was one is also telling.

[fasttense]

9. Your "FACTS" aren't true

"Digby Neck, on the Bay of Fundy in Nova Scotia, is a popular whale-watching area. After hearing community concerns about the environmental impact of a proposal to expand a basalt quarry, a Canadian government review panel denied approval of the project. The Canadian province of Newfoundland and Labrador requires oil companies drilling offshore to invest a portion of their profits into local research and development projects. Last month, separate trade tribunals ruled both of these Canadian policies illegal and awarded damages to multinational corporations to compensate them for the loss of anticipated profits under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

These corporate rights cases, known as Investor State Dispute Settlements (ISDS), are rapidly on the rise, says Public Citizen. And based on leaked text from the proposed Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) posted last month – they could become even more common in the years to come."

- See more at: http://www.iatp.org/blog/201504/new-nafta-rulings-favor-corporations-over-community-values-environment#sthash.yOmfl9dl.dpuf

Corporations have been winning payouts from nations for years, even under NAFTA. Our Right Wing media is horrible at reporting it but your tax dollars are currently going to pay damages to Exxon Mobil Corp., and Murphy Oil Corp. And there are many more. It's a win win for corporations who get your tax dollars for merely complaining.

[appal_jack]

11. k&r for actual important facts. Thanks fasttense & OP. nt

[Hoyt]

13. Looks like my facts are TRUE. The corporation got damages, but not approval to expand the quarry.

Further, if you take the time to actually read the dispute. Bilcon invested funds, facilities, etc., at the request and encouragement of Nova Scotia. Then, NS decided to not give further approval -- which is their right and probably a good move. But, NS had suckered Bilcon into investing in expanding a quarry. Bilcon did not get what it wanted, but they did get some damages for being suckered into the process. The laws were not changed.

http://www.italaw.com/sites/default/files/case-documents/italaw4212.pdf

Like I said, corporations don't get the laws changed under NAFTA, but they have a chance to get damages for these type of government actions. The fact is, countries continue to enter into these agreements because they need/want the investment. If Canada were so upset with this ruling, they could withdraw from NAFTA and refuse to participate in TPP. Guess what, they begged to be included in TPP.

[stuffmatters]

18. Once XL is vetoed, (Trans)Canada will sue for losses via NAFTA/TPP

TPP will just strengthen their NAFTA case. TPP is called "NAFTA on Steroids" not just for it's impact on Americans jobs but also for its juiced up ISDS global corporate judicial powers.

[a2liberal]

21. They're already planning it

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/transcanada-quietly-plots-response-as-keystone-xl-rejection-seems-imminent-1.3185105

[PosterChild]

24. From the article....

U.S. has never lost a NAFTA case.... The U.S. government has a 13-0 record in NAFTA cases. A suit would likely fail, cost the company a few million dollars, and possibly antagonize the U.S. government, said David Gantz, who was been a panelist on NAFTA cases and who teaches trade law at the University of Arizona.

"I think it's a fairly long shot, it's an expensive way to do a long shot, and it doesn't seem to me to be something they're very likely to do," said Gantz.

"They can talk about doing it but my guess is once they have consulted with counsel... they will decide it's — if not a long shot, then well under a 50-50 chance."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/transcanada-quietly-plots-response-as-keystone-xl-rejection-seems-imminent-1.3185105

Honestly, I don't understand why Americans should be so fearful and concerned about doing business with Canada and Mexico. And fretful about a legal mechanism that has only been used 13 times and never even succeeded !

[a2liberal]

29. TPP intends to make it stronger (nt)

[PosterChild]

33. In what way? ISDS...

....Investor State Dispute Settlements (ISDS) have been a common and accepted part of trade agreements for a long long time.

They make a lot of sense because they make direct investment in countries that don't have a great track record for respecting the rule of law and are known for confiscating foreign assets safer to make . A country that already abides by the rule of law and doesn't steal from their trading partners should not have any real concern about ISDS.

So in what way will TPP strengthen ISDS? And why would this be a concern for Americans ?

[fasttense]

42. It's interesting that the NAFTA panelist and trade law teacher goes from saying it's a long shot to

giving them a 50-50 chance. 50-50 to me is NOT a long shot. Seems to me the teacher is not so sure. And then there is this........

"One possible response is a challenge under the North American Free Trade Agreement to recoup damages from the U.S. government. Another is immediately re-filing a permit application with the U.S. State Department before the 2016 presidential election..

A source involved in the project said the company is consulting lawyers on the mechanics of a NAFTA challenge, and weighing the legal and political implications. "

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/transcanada-quietly-plots-response-as-keystone-xl-rejection-seems-imminent-1.3185105

I fully expect, if they are denied, a law suit for damages to be filed against the US. Yes, the US has been successful before in other lawsuits but then how often has the US denied a corporation anything?

[PosterChild]

43. Apparently, the us has denied . ...

..... corporations 13 times, out of 13 attempts. US 13, Corps 0.

The reason for the arbitration provisions is to protect companies that make direct investments in areas of the world that don't have a strong reputation for adherence to the rule of law or have a reputation for confiscating foreign assets . This allows direct investment ( as opposed to trade alone ) in countries that are less stable politically and don't yet have a mature business climate .

We don't have to worry about these provisions because we play by the rules and don't try to arbitrarily confiscate foreign assets invested here. They are accepted by underdeveloped countries because without them developed countries won't invest.

[Joe Turner]

32. 'Bilcon did not get what it wanted'

This is something corporate trade supporters never get....Foreign trade is just that foreign trade. Until we kill the concept of nation states...which I happen to believe is one heck of a good thing for mankind...investments made overseas or over borders are, at the RISK OF THE CORPORATION OR INVESTOR. If a foreign investment goes sour, for any reason, tough rocks. Don't make the taxpayers of the country pay for a bad business bet. The tried and true principles of foreign investment pre-corporate trade deals worked as it encouraged investment discipline as contrasted to the do whatever we want kind of bullshit trade investment we have today.

[fasttense]

41. What fool thinks that paying damages would cause the nation to NOT change their laws??????

Yes, yes, keep the laws as is, then when some other corporate thief files suit we get to pay more.

You wrote: "assuming a corporation is successful, which is rare."

It is not rare for corporation to successfully sue an entire nation and that corporation ends up gaining billions just from complaining. Now if you think about it, eventually the nations will catch on and in order to avoid paying out huge dollar amounts in damages, they will just change their laws. In fact what fool would put into an agreement the payment of damages for failure to follow the agreement and then claim that wont cause the 2 parties to follow the agreement? In order to follow the agreement, laws MUST BE CHANGED

That is why the Gramm Leach Bliley act repealed most of Glass–Steagall because of a WTO FTA that stipulated removal of banking restrictions.

https://www.citizen.org/documents/FinanceReregulationFactSheetFINAL.pdf

Just because Canada's elite politicians begged to be part of TPP doesn't mean it is good for the nation. Greek politicians took out loans that turned out NOT to be so good for the nation. Free trade agreements are the way corporations get their way to bilk and thieve from entire countries. Citizens are merely trade bait.

[Hoyt]

44. I think you are wrong. As to Greece, if they had not taken out the loans, they

would have been in this fix much earlier. They took out the loans to give them time to get their act together. Instead, they took the money and didn't get their act together, hence their current predicament. Wish it hadn't happened to their people, but it did.

[PosterChild]

22. Gee, you don't seem to be promoting . ..

.... fear , uncertainty , and doubt! I'm not sure about this fact based agenda!

[Enthusiast]

4. Yes! I am sick of this abuse of corporations. Especially the drug companies. Abuse abuse abuse!

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[msongs]

3. thanks obama nt

[mtasselin]

5. Thanks

Thanks Obama, you have a chance to bring America back to the good old days with a strong middle class, regulations, and everything the FDR fought for. But with TPP you are going to destroy your legacy and worst destroy America by turning it over to the corporations and for that sir shame on you if this happens.

[forest444]

17. ^ This. Right here.

[appalachiablue]

10. What was it about Fast Track and TTP that brought Pres. Obama and the GOP

leadership together after all this time I wonder.

[PosterChild]

34. There economic interests of Americans ? eom

[Angry Dragon]

12. may the TPP go the way of the Weeping Boner

[Enthusiast]

14. That is my wish.

[red dog 1]

15. Thanks very much, Mr. President!

K&R

[Dont call me Shirley]

16. Time for a fresh round of calls and letters...

Every call you make to your Reps, Sens and WH is worth 4,000 constituents voices, so call.

Whitehouse Comments: 202-456-1111

United States Capitol switchboard: 202-224-3121

[PosterChild]

25. I'm making that call...

... in support .

[AdHocSolver]

19. Let's keep the information up-to-date about the TPP!

Its passage could make the results of the coming elections almost irrelevant.

K and R.

[silvershadow]

20. What is this? The never-ending saga? How many times do we have to scream NO loud and clear?

I guess they will continue until they wear us down.

[AuntPatsy]

23. Or perhaps they will simply ignore our outrage and pass it at their leisure while we are

effectively distracted by that next shiny object thrown at us....

[nationalize the fed]

26. IF at first they don't succeed

they lie and lie again.

And why hasn't the TPP come up in either R debate? The US media isn't going to discuss this until it's in Congress.

Will the topic come up in the upcoming D debate? My money is on "No"

Oh Look! They've prepared a handy bunch of talking points, right on schedule

USTR Releases Detailed Summary of TPP Objectives
September 2015

Washington, D.C. –The Office of the United States Trade Representative today released a detailed summary of the most recent U.S. negotiating objectives on the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). The report, coupled with a recent update on progress made in negotiations at a July ministerial meeting in Hawaii, are part of continued Administration efforts to make trade negotiations accessible and transparent to the public and their representatives in Congress. The steps USTR has taken were in line with provisions included in the bipartisan Trade Promotion Authority bill passed earlier this year.

“This report is a detailed look at what we are fighting for at the TPP negotiating table to help unlock opportunity for U.S. workers, farmers, and businesses,” said Ambassador Froman. “We have taken Congress’s marching orders through bipartisan Trade Promotion Authority and our ongoing consultations seriously and are following through on delivering the high standard deal Congress and the American people expect.”

“This is another in a series of steps this Administration has taken to share information at every step of the TPP negotiating process,” said Chief Transparency Officer Tim Reif. “Through detailed summaries, a robust congressional consultation process, outreach to a more diverse set of stakeholders, and public input on negotiating aims, we continue to build a more open and transparent negotiation process. We are always looking to do more, and appreciate the important steps taken on transparency in the Trade Promotion Authority law.”
https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/press-releases/2015/september/ustr-releases-detailed-summary

Be the first on your block to download the PDF

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/TPP-Detailed-Summary-of-US-Objectives.pdf

[PosterChild]

27. There hasn't actually been much . ...

.... shouting in opposition to TPP.



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/23/americans-favor-tpp-but-less-than-other-countries-do/

In general, Americans tend to favor opening trade with other countries .

[davidpdx]

31. For the US that is almost, but not quite half

I wonder how well informed those 49% are and how many would change their minds if they had more information about the details.

[PosterChild]

35. It's a plurality of the population . ..

... and a majority of those who are informed and concerned about the issue. "Haven't heard enough " and "neither good nor bad" are about 22%.

[davidpdx]

36. I'd like to see a full break down of the numbers if you have them

I still think there is a lot to come out about the TPP that we don't know.

[PosterChild]

37. Here are the links..,

The TPP is a part of a larger transnational study of global attitudes relating to America . So you might have to dig deep. Here is the full report:

http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2015/06/Balance-of-Power-Report-FINAL-June-23-20151.pdf

Here is the report summary :

http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/06/23/global-publics-back-u-s-on-fighting-isis-but-are-critical-of-post-911-torture/

Down at the bottom are links to the full report and suplimentary material.

As I said, this was a wide ranging study, the summary that focuses on TPP is here:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/23/americans-favor-tpp-but-less-than-other-countries-do/

Finally , here is a summary of American attitudes to "free" trade agreements in general:

http://www.people-press.org/2015/05/27/free-trade-agreements-seen-as-good-for-u-s-but-concerns-persist/

[Sunlei]

40. hope the tarriff drops off the NZ red feather butter, it's Better Butter :P