Palestinian youths stab Israeli boy of 13 as violence rages on

[oberliner]

Source: Reuters

Two Palestinian youths of 13 and 15 stabbed and critically injured a 13-year-old Israeli boy riding his bike in northern Jerusalem on Monday, police said, continuing a wave of attacks in the city in which three alleged Palestinian assailants were shot dead.

Four Israelis and 26 Palestinians, including eight alleged attackers and eight children, have died in 12 days of bloodshed, the worst spell of street violence for years, stirred in part by Muslim anger over increasing Jewish visits to the al-Aqsa mosque compound in Jerusalem.

Palestinian groups have called for a "Day of Rage" across the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem on Tuesday and the leaders of Israel's Arab community have called for a commercial strike in their towns and villages.

Some of Israel's Jewish residents have also taken to the streets, to protest against the attacks, and have demanded the government do more to restore security.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/12/us-palestinians-israel-violence-idUSKCN0S60ER20151012

[Archae]

1. Two more Palestinian "heroes..."

That is, according to Hamas.

[sulphurdunn]

13. Please provide a link

to confirm the 'heroes' statement to Hamas.

[Archae]

14. I don't know of any...yet.

There will be though.

Just look at those two thugs that stabbed and shot Israelis at a synagogue.

There was a BBC report on this, I can't find it now.

So far all I found is a Fox news report, and I have some doubts about that.

But Palestinian media celebrated the "martyrs" and "heroes," Hamas people said Rabbis were fair targets.

[geek tragedy]

2. they gathered for kindling for years, now express shock when it burns nt

[KamaAina]

3. Dear Reuters: Nearly two thousand Palestinian kids have been killed over the years.

As compared to less than 20 Israeli ones.

For whatever reason, their deaths are less newsworthy.

[oberliner]

5. Reuters hasn't covered any of that?

Are you sure?

[KamaAina]

15. Not nearly proportionately.

[randys1]

51. I wonder what the motivation is of non Jewish Americans to hate the Palestinians so much.

I wonder if they would explain that to us.

[JDPriestly]

11. Or perhaps Israelis value their citizens more.

Palestinians and Israelis could easily come to terms if Palestinians agreed to borders and gave up on the "right to return."

Palestinians and Israelis need to work together to make life better for both peoples. Until they decide to do that, this violence will continue.

The children and grandchildren of those fighting now will look at their parents and grandparents who are fighting as downright stupid fools.

The problems they face can be solved. Fighting over a space that is holy to both Palestinians and Israelis? How foolish is that?

How about sharing?????

[Comrade Grumpy]

16. Israel certainly values the lives of its citizens more than the lives of Palestinians.

Israel has its boot on the necks of the Palestinians, and it's the Palestinians fault? You've got to be kidding.

Where do you live? Can I come occupy you land, destroy your homes, uproot your orchards, build new cities on your land, torture and murder and imprison your people? And then blame you for not just acquiescing?

[NutmegYankee]

17. Believe it or not, peoples in other areas have gotten over it.

You don't see German's rioting to retake Danzig and Prussia.

[JDPriestly]

18. Or people in Austria rioting to take over Northern Italy.

Borders of countries are changed following wars.

That is the way it works. The Palestinians and Israelis should agree on borders and then work together to keep all their citizens safe.

Otherwise what will happen, if history teaches anything, is that they will fight until one wins over the other. But there will be many deaths before that happens.

It would be much smarter for the two sides to really work sincerely to achieve peace.

[NutmegYankee]

19. Agree.

I just have to comment when someone starts the whole invasion and conquering of lands game - Welcome to the story of humans.

Hell, most of us know the names from history well - Romans, Huns, Vandals, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Franks, Angles, Saxons, Lombards, Suebi, Frisii, Jutes, Avars, Slavs, Bulgars, and Alans. Later on we have the Viking, Norman, Hungarian, Moorish, Turkic, and Mongol invasions.

[JDPriestly]

20. I know. I was talking to someone from Iran recently.

The invasion of Iran by the Mongols set their culture back in some ways.

I also started to read Winston Churchill's History of the English-Speaking Peoples.

He recites in the beginning of the book the many, many invasions of the British Isles especially from the North and East.

It is quite remarkable.

invasion and its civilized and orderly, lawful form called immigration, is just a part of life.

We think we own things. We hope we can protect what we think we own.

But history is partly the story of invasions. They are in the course of history the openings of new chapters, and history continues.

Countries' borders are not often set in stone. Sometimes they are -- in stone, in water, by a mountain range or a river, but generally not.

[geek tragedy]

44. so, when does Israel grant the people

within the West Bank full citizenship and the right to vote?

[JDPriestly]

46. Probably when the Palestinians grant to Israelis the right to have their own country

and to live in peace.

I think that will be the necessary quid pro quo.

That's just my opinion.

As long as Palestinians don't recognize Israel's right to exist, how can Israel recognize the rights of Palestinians.

In a generation or two, at the very latest and if they all survive, the children and grandchildren of the current generation will get along just fine.

Remember the Alamo!

Remember Fremont?

I live in California. We get along very well with Mexico. Many of us are part or entirely of Mexican ancestry. But some generations ago, we were fighting.

That's the history of the world.

Palestinians of the future and Israelis of the future will work out their problems and live side by side in peace. It's just a matter of time.

I lived in Strasbourg, France at one time. The population was partly German (German-speaking) and part French (partly French-speaking). The Alsatian language of the area (Strasbourg is in Alsace-Lorraine in France now) was kind of a mixture. That was an area that France and Germany fought over at one time. The German and French people who live there are very different in many respects including not just language but food and drink, really basid things.

After WWII, Alsace and Strasbourg were given to France. That arrangement seems to have worked well. They live together in peace.

We are also seeing peace for the moment in Ireland between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Peace will happen. But right now there is such a disgusting love of being "right" of fighting and of watching children die --- over what? A border? The existence of a neighboring country?

In time the people of Palestine and Israel will wise up. At this rate, it may take a generation.

[geek tragedy]

48. The Israelis already have their own country, and the Palestinians

have recognized Israel's right to exist for decades.

You are thinking of Israel as the aggrieved, powerless victim of Palestinian extremism.

That is precisely backwards.

Israel has ALL of the power, ALL of the advantages, and ALL of the benefits.

They got the gold mine, and the Palestinians got the shaft.

And that's not enough for the Israelis.

[oberliner]

24. I think the religious element makes this situation unique

Nothing animates the parties more than the "desecration" of their "holy sites".

If Jerusalem didn't have so many of these super important religious sites, the tenor of the conflict might be different.

[TipTok]

26. Well obviously GAWD said that they have to keep this up...

... for the next couple thousand years or until everyone is dead.

Whichever comes first.

A classic example of religion making a bad situation 100 times worse and longer...

[treestar]

35. There is something unique about this case though

in that they were informed by the rest of the world, by the UN, etc. outside of their country that their land was no longer theirs. Natural migration might have been a better way to do it.

As to invasions, they were so long ago that we don't accept that on the planet any more. We rail against it now wherever else it happens, take the Russians going to Afghanistan or Saddam invading Kuwait. Nobody seemed to say just get over it - Saddam owns Kuwait now.

[NutmegYankee]

40. Not really. Any invasion results in a war.

In Saddams case, he picked on a runt with strong allies. People forget, but Israel and the Arab league fought that war, several times, and Israel won each time. The 1948 war was literally a do or die event for the Jews.

[geek tragedy]

43. People in Danzig are Polish citizens with the right to vote.

That's the difference between a democracy and apartheid.

[NutmegYankee]

49. 75 years ago they were German citizens.

Every German was forced from their homes by threat of death in 1945.

[geek tragedy]

52. The Palestinians are in their homes, now.

Which makes the Danzig argument rather odd.

It's not grievances over old crimes committed against the dead. This is about depriving actual, living human beings of their universally-acknowledged human rights.

[NutmegYankee]

58. You missed the point I was making.

People are still arguing over actions taken 67 years ago.

[geek tragedy]

59. what matters is what is to be done now nt

[geek tragedy]

45. Lol, yes, Israel is perfect and everything is the fault of the people they conquered

via brute force.

Brilliant.



it's not Palestinians building those abhorrent settlements

[JDPriestly]

47. What do you think the borders between Israel and Palestine should be?

And how do you think they should be enforced?

[geek tragedy]

50. Based on 1967 boundaries.

The problem is that there too many of those damn settler outposts marbled throughout Palestine. While they are in place, there can be no borders between two states, because those settlers are like cancer cells invading the organs of a Palestinian state.

Until Israel stops expanding and multiplying those tumors, there's no reason to take its professed interests in a negotiated settlement seriously.

In the end, both peoples will have to coexist in a single binational state that will replace the current Israeli Zionist state.

[JDPriestly]

54. And that means many more deaths.

Secure borders will solve the problem. They need to be negotiated and enforced by the parties.

First, people have to get along and then they can do away with borders.

We in California get along with Mexico, but we still have a border.

[geek tragedy]

56. in order for there to be borders, the settlers and the IDF need to leave.

the IDF will not leave unless the settlers leave.

And the settlers will not leave willingly--they will need to be physically forced to leave.

Do you think the IDF is going to evict 140,000 armed, Cliven Bundy-type nutjobs?

Neither do I.

[azurnoir]

4. Israeli youth stabs four Arabs in Dimona attack (oddly not posted in LBN)

Israeli Jew stabs Palestinian - psychiatric issues

Palestian stabs Jew- TERRORISM

Netanyahu's statement on Dimona attack-

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office reported that he strongly condemned the attack against innocent Arabs.

"Israel is a country of law and order. Those who use violence and break the law – from whatever side – will be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law," the Prime Minister said.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4708905,00.html

Israeli teenager on Friday morning went on a stabbing spree in the southern city of Dimona, wounding three Palestinian men and a Bedouin Arab.

The stabber attacked one man at a shopping center and then advanced to another location next to a local school, where he stabbed three others. A security guard then tackled and restrained the suspect, 17, until police arrived.

Police called the attack “nationalistic,” indicating that it was likely retaliation for a rash of recent Palestinian attacks against Israelis, which have triggered an escalation in anti-Arab rhetoric in recent days.

The suspect, who reports said has a criminal background and a history of psychiatric issues, confessed to the stabbing, saying that he thought all Arabs were “terrorists.”

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-man-stabs-three-palestinians-in-dimona-attack/

[oberliner]

6. Someone definitely should've posted that here when it was LBN

As per our discussion of that same news article which was posted in the I/P forum, the Israeli Jew with psychiatric issues who stabbed the Palestinian was rightly labeled a terrorist in the Jerusalem Post.

Weirdly, you seem to have forgotten about that for some reason (even though you responded to the comment).

Perhaps they should label these stabbings as "resistance" since that is how such attacks against Israeli Jews are generally described by much of the Palestinian media.

[Orrex]

10. Your call for label-equity is poorly considered

Perhaps they should label these stabbings as "resistance" since that is how such attacks against Israeli Jews are generally described by much of the Palestinian media.

The occupying power does not "resist" the subjugated population.

Maybe if Palestine had usurped Israeli lands and bombed the shit out civilian targets in decades of unanswerable air raids, then a stabbing of a Palestinian by an Israeli might be termed resistance. In this world, however, Israel is the dominant military power in the region, wholly supported by the dominant military power in the world, beating up on civilians with effective impunity.

And the answer, when pressed as to why Israel keeps bombing the shit out of civilians is invariably the same: they were asking for it.

[oberliner]

30. Stabbing a 13 year old riding a bicycle is not "resistance"

No matter how you want to characterize the situation, there is no way that such an attack can be reasonably termed resistance. Yet, that is exactly the language Hamas and others use, even in the context of Palestinians attacking children.

[Orrex]

38. No one is defending the stabbing, so drop that bullshit line of reasoning

However, a number of people are more than happy to defend and justify Israel's murderous campaign of collective punishment of civilians. Why the double standard, especially when Israel has far more blood on its hands than Hamas does?

[sulphurdunn]

8. Had the roles been reversed

the kid would have been shot dead on the spot. This kid will be sent to a psychiatric institution and eventually released.

[Orrex]

9. But see, that's not terrorism because reasons.

And those Palestinian children were probably using civilian Palestinian children as human shields, because Palestinians are evil, etc.

[oberliner]

32. But see, killing Israelis is not terrorism because reasons

Palestinians have the right to stab Israeli children, because Israelis are evil, etc.

[Orrex]

34. Of course, no one has claimed that.

It is routinely asserted, however, that Israel's campaign of murder is not terrorism, because of reasons.

Israel claims carte blanche to bomb the shit out of innocent Palestinians, and when pressed for justification, Israel claims "they were asking for it."

[Spitfire of ATJ]

7. When will people learn collective punishment doesn't work?

It's purpose is to force everyone into submission and to get them to seek out and stop their fellow citizens from further provoking the wrath of the masters.

Sounds silly in this day and age, doesn't it?

It's been the model since the Middle Ages.

[uawchild]

12. Is a Two State peace impossible after all this time?

There are 4.4 million or so Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza. If a real two state peace is not achievable, what is the humane endgame to this? Is there one? Is it just totally crazy to start thinking its time for the US and Europe to start accepting all 4.4 million Palestinians as refugees/immigrants? Many Israelis see maintaing control over the West Bank as an existential necessity for their nation. Forgive my ignorance and pessimism, but I just don't see a two state resolution of this in our life times.

[frizzled]

21. According to the Israeli Defense Minister (and everyone else), yes.

"Is it just totally crazy to start thinking its time for the US and Europe to start accepting all 4.4 million Palestinians as refugees/immigrants?"

Nice support for ethnic cleansing. How about the US and Europe tell the invaders to stop the occupation?

[oberliner]

23. I think the millions of Syrian refugees was what the poster was thinking about

Might there be a similar refugee crisis if there is an escalation of this conflict? If so, the US and Europe might need to help out.

Would you characterize what is going on in Syria right now as ethnic cleansing?

[treestar]

36. A pox on both sides at this point

They cannot simply live and let live there. They keep making excuses that the other side is THE EVIL ONE. Yet each side can come up with atrocities, so they are all the Evil Ones. Or they have those individuals on both sides and the ordinary people seem unable to stop them.

[MosheFeingold]

39. Two state solution was offerred

Many, many times -- including upon the founding of Israel.

The radical elements within the Arab population have repeatedly declined such an offer, given that they desire the ethnic cleansing of the region of its Jewish population.

And, yes, after 50 years, the Israelis (which includes about a 20-30% Arab population) have pretty much given up on that route, too.

[geek tragedy]

42. the two-state solution was the only thing that was going to keep

Israel from disappearing from the map, literally.

So, eventually it will be replaced by a binational secular state that will respect the rights of Jews and Arabs equally.

You must imagine the Israelis to be completely inept, having every single advantage possible over the Palestinians but still dooming their own state to distinction.

[geek tragedy]

53. the end game is first Israel becomes a de jure as well as a de facto apartheid state.

Than it becomes an international pariah that even the United States won't support any longer, with Boycott-Divest-Sanctions becoming the global rule.

And only when that gets sufficiently painful, will a binational secular state replace the current state of Israel.

[romanic]

22. This is fucking crazy!

All this over a piece of land, JFC.

[6chars]

55. It is a huge amount of land

Over 100 square miles.

[TipTok]

25. Shocking...

Not really...

Learned that one from his parents I'm sure...

[Orrex]

27. Who learned it from the invading and occupying military force

Funny how the dominant military power is invariably portrayed as the innocent and helpless victim.

[TipTok]

29. Yes yes..

The 32nd group to conquer a certain area are the true owners as opposed to the 43rd.

God said it so it must be true...

What a joke...

[Orrex]

31. "God" means nothing to me, so you can drop that nonsense.

Do you deny that Israel is the current occupying force? What, exactly, should be done by the Palestinians who lived on that land for generations prior to Israel's invasion?

And spare me any bullshit about unverifiable claims dating from the Bronze Age. By what right does Israel destroy the homes and seize the land of innocent Palestinians? And by what right does Israel complain when the occupied population fights back against its occupiers?

[oberliner]

33. Most Palestinians do not stab Israelis

It's quite possible for Palestinians to recognize that stabbing children is not a good thing to do under any circumstances.

The vast majority of Palestinians do recognize that - so please don't make excuses for the few who don't.

[Orrex]

37. Again, no one is claiming otherwise

I've read a bunch of your posts, and they follow a pattern of issuing strong condemnation of statements that no one has made. Go on with your bad self.

However:

It's quite possible for Palestinians to recognize that stabbing children is not a good thing to do under any circumstances.

I'm sure that Israeli civilians feel very much the same way, so why does Israel's military persist in its murderous bombing campaigns of collective punishment?

[TipTok]

67. It obviously means something to them...

... otherwise they could have come to an agreement like civilized people have done all over the world.

[6chars]

28. Palestinian leadership is intentionally recruiting children to commit terrorism

Generally not considered a good thing to do.

[geek tragedy]

41. got a source for that claim besides the crazier elements of Israel's rightwing

government?

For someone who frets a lot about how the Palestinians act, you have gone out of your way to remain ignorant about the reality in which they live.

Perhaps it would help you to view them as human beings so you can begin to understand them.

[Archae]

57. I see a picture like this and you wonder why I have no sympathy for the Palestinians?

In this Monday, Oct. 12, 2015 photo, Palestinians sit under a poster showing Mohammed Ali, 19, in Shafat refugee camp in Jerusalem. Ali was killed after he stabbed an Israeli policeman on Oct. 10 near Old City's Damascus Gate. The Arabic on the poster reads: "The one who has responded to God's call defending the sacred Al-Aqsa and Jerusalem and Arab dignity. Sleep well, martyr of the homeland. We are from God and we are turning back to him." (AP Photo/Dusan Vranic)

http://wbay.com/ap/palestinians-assailants-often-leave-behind-ordinary-lives/

[geek tragedy]

60. yes, because you're bigoted against Palestinians and willing to write them all off

as human beings--millions of men, women, and children--because of a photo of a f@cking poster.

Do you "have no sympathy for the Jews" when you see videos of angry Jewish mobs chanting "Death to the Arabs?"

[Archae]

61. Because I haven't seen the videos of Jewish mobs calling for "Death to Arabs..."

Or celebrating those who kill Palestinians.

And I don't see Israeli television putting cartoon characters in front of kids, urging them to be "martyrs."

When the Palestinians finally say "Enough!" and dump these jerks, instead of celebrating them and even dancing in the streets after vicious terrorist attacks by these thugs, THEN and only then will I have any sympathy for them.

And when they have equal rights for women and gays.

In fact in Gaza, it is *STILL* a felony to be gay.

[geek tragedy]

62. why do you see Palestinians as a single monolithic entity instead of a collection

of individual human beings with rights, hopes, and fears?

As far as Jews chanting "Death to Arabs", here knock yourself out:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=jews+chanting+death+to+arabs&tbm=vid

[Archae]

63. Yes, I do condemn that bunch, in those videos.

They are a mob, and they deserve only scorn.

Like in the first one:

So where are the Palestinians condemning the fundys, kooks and haters in their ranks?

[geek tragedy]

64. There's no government in place to protect Palestinians

from those fundys and kooks.

The Palestinian Authority can't take them on, because the Palestinian Authority is widely viewed by Palestinians as a bunch of sellouts who take cash in order to help do Israel's dirty work for them (the PA is required to protect Israelis from Palestinians, and is forbidden to protect Palestinians from Israelis--think about that. Can you imagine if Israel wasn't allowed to protect Jews from Palestinians, but was required to protect Palestinians from Jews?).

[Archae]

65. In case you haven't noticed, most Palestinians voted in Hamas.

And you just *KNOW* how reasonable they are!

[geek tragedy]

66. In Gaza they did.

The Palestinians have made a lot of really awful, stomach-churning mistakes.

A lot of things have to be in place before people make the right call, though.

For one, there has to be a decent choice on the ballot (Palestinians two choices were the crazy and vicious Hamas and the thoroughly corrupt Fatah).