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Sat Nov 21, 2015, 06:08 PM

Sanders: 'To hell with the fossil fuel industry’

Source: The Hill

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) on Saturday called for Republicans to abandon the corrupting influence of the Koch brothers and other wealthy energy magnates.

“This is a party that rejects science and refuses to understand that climate change is real,” he said of GOP during the annual Blue Jamboree in North Charleston, S.C.

“I understand if you stand up to the Koch brothers and the fossil fuel industry, that you’ll lose your campaign contributions,” the 2016 Democratic presidential candidate added.
“{Climate change} is already causing devastating problems all over this world. To hell with the fossil fuel industry. Worry more about your children and your grandchildren than your campaign contributions.”



Read more: http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/261019-sanders-to-hell-with-the-fossil-fuel-industry



I love this man

82 replies, 6317 views

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Reply Sanders: 'To hell with the fossil fuel industry’ (Original post)
Attorney in Texas Nov 2015 OP
First Speaker Nov 2015 #1
adir Nov 2015 #5
tk2kewl Nov 2015 #7
dinkytron Nov 2015 #44
WHEN CRABS ROAR Nov 2015 #65
azmom Nov 2015 #2
tex-wyo-dem Nov 2015 #16
appalachiablue Nov 2015 #74
arcane1 Nov 2015 #76
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #3
SammyWinstonJack Nov 2015 #50
MoreGOPoop Nov 2015 #4
CoffeeCat Nov 2015 #6
Enthusiast Nov 2015 #34
Jackilope Nov 2015 #8
Gregorian Nov 2015 #9
Fritz Walter Nov 2015 #10
truthisfreedom Nov 2015 #11
bread_and_roses Nov 2015 #12
MisterP Nov 2015 #14
cantbeserious Nov 2015 #13
madokie Nov 2015 #15
PosterChild Nov 2015 #17
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #19
PosterChild Nov 2015 #20
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #25
PosterChild Nov 2015 #27
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #28
PosterChild Nov 2015 #30
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #31
PosterChild Nov 2015 #32
madokie Nov 2015 #41
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #70
MichMan Nov 2015 #77
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #78
davidpdx Nov 2015 #22
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #23
davidpdx Nov 2015 #24
Volaris Nov 2015 #36
PosterChild Nov 2015 #58
Yallow Nov 2015 #45
PosterChild Nov 2015 #56
rhett o rick Nov 2015 #46
PosterChild Nov 2015 #57
rhett o rick Nov 2015 #59
PosterChild Nov 2015 #61
rhett o rick Nov 2015 #64
PosterChild Nov 2015 #67
rhett o rick Nov 2015 #69
PosterChild Nov 2015 #72
LanternWaste Nov 2015 #81
demigoddess Nov 2015 #18
PosterChild Nov 2015 #21
DhhD Nov 2015 #26
PosterChild Nov 2015 #29
tazkcmo Nov 2015 #42
GeorgeGist Nov 2015 #55
Luciferous Nov 2015 #71
PosterChild Nov 2015 #75
demigoddess Nov 2015 #80
Enthusiast Nov 2015 #33
Paka Nov 2015 #35
BeanMusical Nov 2015 #37
Betty Karlson Nov 2015 #38
DFW Nov 2015 #39
raouldukelives Nov 2015 #40
IDemo Nov 2015 #43
Stuart G Nov 2015 #47
Attorney in Texas Nov 2015 #53
WHEN CRABS ROAR Nov 2015 #68
Yallow Nov 2015 #48
PosterChild Nov 2015 #73
Yallow Nov 2015 #79
PosterChild Nov 2015 #82
Yallow Nov 2015 #49
PosterChild Nov 2015 #62
Zorra Nov 2015 #51
PatrickforO Nov 2015 #52
99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #54
Plucketeer Nov 2015 #60
ArcticFox Nov 2015 #63
Uncle Joe Nov 2015 #66

Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 06:15 PM

1. I'm beginning to think that Sanders might actually be elected President...

...Hunter Thompson, in his postmortem on McGovern in 1972, famously said that the latter lacked "a dark streak of Mick Jagger in his soul". Sanders has that streak, and it's helping him connect to the people. If the GOP remains as crazy as it is, Bernie Sanders just might go all the way. I've pretty much been a "sensible" Dem so far--you know: of course we have to rally around Mrs Clinton. If she is the nominee, I'll support her enthusiastically. But Sanders is starting to convince me...

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Response to First Speaker (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 06:25 PM

5. He is pointing at things that are right in front of everybody's eyes.

 

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

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Response to adir (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 06:30 PM

7. Welcome

 

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Response to First Speaker (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:10 AM

44. The timing of his campaign's "trajectory" might just be absolutely dead on. It is a campaign of

big ideas and truth and about not bullshitting ourselves about the mess we are in regarding money, power, equality, the environment. And when you wrap yourself around these ideas which is basically about just listening to "our better angels" as some would say, its pretty hard to unwrap yourself. Its hard to bullshit yourself that is there really is any other viable alternative. Bernie is the closest thing to an antidote. By a process of elimination... the Republican field of stink and Hillary may be a great leader and a terrific person but she is establishment. entrenched and handled. And I don't think that is going to fly this election. I think it is a deal breaker. Bernie is a tough guy with a morale compass that is intact. That is a great combination. I think he can win it, too.

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Response to dinkytron (Reply #44)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 05:33 PM

65. Like I have said before.

Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.

Then Bernie will win.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 06:17 PM

2. A vote for Bernie is a vote for the future

Of this planet. We need to fight like hell.

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Response to azmom (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 08:28 PM

16. + 1,000,000!

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Response to azmom (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:00 PM

74. Fight the cashist Koch brothers and the Kochtopus!

?fit=881%2C9999

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Response to azmom (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:21 PM

76. We may not get another chance if we blow it this time n/t

 

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 06:20 PM

3. Now watch Hillary run to the coal miners for a photo-op.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:58 PM

50. Ha!

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 06:22 PM

4. Yes!

To Hell with the Oilygarchy! Bern it up!

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 06:28 PM

6. There he goes again!

Bernie Sanders--once again--said what needed to be said! Without apologies, without equivocation, without any doubt about what he means.

This man! I love this man!!

I never thought that a REAL presidential candidate would be saying the things that all of us have been saying for so long. Except it's not a poster on Reddit, or a columnist from Huffington Post or a liberal guest on Bill Mahr. It's a Democratic presidential candidate!

Mr Sanders, you are a very tall, cold glass of ice water in a parched, weary nation that is thirsting for courage, TRUTH, wisdom and an end to the damage that most of our current leaders have inflicted on this country.

Thank you!!! Thank you Senator Sanders for being the voice of "We The People"--and saying the things that need to be said and the things that must be said if to save our democracy!!!!
d

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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:47 AM

34. We have to elect him.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 06:47 PM

8. Proud to be a supporter of this man!!!!

The absolute ONLY candidate that is speaking the truth.

Happy to rec this!!

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 06:56 PM

9. It shocks me every time I see common sense in politics.

He totally speaks for my vision of a better country.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 06:57 PM

10. Just as the metaphorical dinosaurs gazed dumbly at the asteroid that spelled their doom

So, too, are the fossil fuel investors in denial about their fate.
It is inevitable.
Those who can adapt -- in this case, by investing in renewable energy -- will survive.
The others will perish.
Hopefully, before the whole ecosystem does as a result of their unbridled greed.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 07:06 PM

11. No small planes, Bernie!

Truth tellers scare the powers that be!

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 07:19 PM

12. You go, Bernie!!!! (but take care of the workers!)

Telling it like it is!

On edit - inc subject line - WE MUST TAKE CARE OF THE WORKERS WHO DEPEND ON THOSE INDUSTRIES - the coal miners, the oil rig workers - THAT is the root of the environmentalists/labor conflict. JOBS - & a REAL safety net for those with no jobs.

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Response to bread_and_roses (Reply #12)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 07:46 PM

14. also decades of the media blaming the job losses from every exhausted mine or fishing ground on

hippie restrictions (this is big in the nuclear industry I'm studying on the side: Silkwood was killed for threatening employment, remember)

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 07:42 PM

13. When We Stand Together - No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go

eom

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 08:12 PM

15. The man is fearless

he has no fear of anyone or anything that stands in the way of a better world for all inhabitants.

I like the way he carries himself, what I mean by that is he is saying exactly what he's been wanting to say all along.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 08:53 PM

17. LOL, exactly what is Bernie going to.....

..... replace fossil fuels with ? Sunshine ?

In all seriousness, there aren't any viable alternatives to fossil fuels that would allow us to tell them to go to hell. I suggest a more moderate approach.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 09:22 PM

19. When did you last visit California?

We have so much sunshine you would not believe it.

What we lack is water.

Our sunshine could provide energy for a good part of the country. Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico and parts of Texas, also sun states.

We have more solar potential than most Americans realize. It's a matter of putting up the panels. The fossil fuels industry does not want it to happen. And Americans who live outside the Southwest have no clue as to what potential our Soutwestern sunshine has.

What we need is a president who can communicate to the doubters what much more investment in solar power could do for the US.

The fossil fuels will either run out or nearly kill life on our planet.

What do you pick -- developing solar energy for the country meaning paying the taxes to put in the panels and set up a system of delivery or waiting until either the fossil fuels run out or life on our planet is impossible?

What is your choice?

The status quo is not a choice.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 09:42 PM

20. I'm all for renewable energy sources.,,

.., as well as non-carbon fossil fuels such as uranium.

But we are a long, long, long way from being able to tell the fossil fuel industries to "go to hell". That would mean economic collapse .

Maybe Bernie was just exaggerating in order to get attention and fire up the base. Then when he gets the nomination he'll move to the right . After he's elected he'll dodge the issue . That would be better than economic collapse.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 10:38 PM

25. Replacing fossil fuels may be a long way away, but my mother was born in an era in which

she plowed with her feet as a child. She rode a wagon led by a horse to school.

Now think where we are. When was the last time you saw a child out in a big field plowing with her feet. That's a lifetime more than mine.

Germany has made great progress in switching to at least a greater percentage of renewable fuel, solar fuel, and Germany's climate is cold and wet. If Germany can start the transition, we can.

The key is that we need to start the transition or we will lose out. We are one of the biggest if not the biggest polluter on earth. We have to change our lifestyle so as to eventually cut out fossil fuels.

Here in California, we can see the workings of climate change. The ocean at our seashore is warmer. Our countryside is warmer too. Some of our drought may be due to historical fluctuations in rainfall. But not all of it.

Climate change is real, and the fossil fuel companies need to stop discouraging us from changing our economy so that their products become obsolete or close to obsolete.

Let me know how your horse is doing back their in your barn or stable. Because a century ago, lots of people still rode horses in parts of our country -- for transportation and work. Cars were around, but people still relied on horses in the country especially.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #25)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:25 AM

27. So great ! A hundred years from now . ....

.... we won't be as dependent on fossil fuels and we will have green house gasses under control . And, of course , over the next four to eight years we are going to be basically as dependent on fossil fuel energy sources as we are now. So the next president, whoever she might be is not going to be telling the fossil fuel industries to "go to hell".

IMHO, it is irresponsible demagoguery to suggest otherwise.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #27)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:50 AM

28. We should have told the fossil fuel industry to go to Hell about 40 years ago.

It is irresponsible to treat them with any respect. They do not treat the environment that we rely on for our lives with any respect at all.

We have to move much more quickly to ending our reliance on fossil fuels. The sooner the better. Fossil fuels will become economically impractical for much of mankind before very long anyway. The oil being drilled for now is harder to bring up than the oil we used in the 1960s. Our cars, etc. are more fuel-efficient. But fuel efficiency will not save us. We have to develop other forms of fuel. This is less of a problem here in Southern California than it is in say the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

But pussy-footing around and being polite with the oil industry is foolish.

I remember when a barrel of crude oil cost $3.25 to $4.50. That was in 1972-73.

The oil crisis sent that price up. I remember that quite clearly because I worked in a job that required me to know a lot about crude oil prices.

Today a barrel of crude oil is about $40.39. It has been higher.

http://www.oil-price.net/

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #28)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:57 AM

30. Sure, and we didn't . ....

..... because we are dependent on fossil fuels for our health, wealth , and welll being. And we aren't going to any time soon, either - because we are dependent on fossil fuels for our health, wealth , and welll being.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #30)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:03 AM

31. Here in Los Angeles, we would use far less fossil fuels if we had better public transportation.

It's a matter of where we invest money and why.

We are now investing in slightly better public transportation, but we needed to do this long, long ago.

The traffic in LA is terrible. It gets worse every year. It's a matter of choices and when people do not have the intelligence or courage to tell the fossil fuel industry to go to hell and pay the taxes that can fund projects that will reduce our use of fossil fuel, our civilization will not last long.

Fossil fuels are making our lives comfortable? At the same time, they are killing us and our environment, slowly but surely.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #31)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:15 AM

32. It sounds like a plan, but even better ..,

..,. all though much longer term, would be significant, global population reduction. Now that would make a difference, a big difference .

In any case, other than ineffectual pissing and moaning, we won't be telling the fossil fuel industries to go to hell any time soon. It would be too self destructive .

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #25)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:37 AM

41. We had an older gentleman

here in my adopted town who rode a horse for his transportation all the way up to the end. I think he was 99 YO when he died. Died in his sleep.

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Response to madokie (Reply #41)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 07:00 PM

70. Good for him. A true conservative conservationist. My grandfather thought of himself as a

conservationist. We would call him an environmentalist today. Horses eat a lot. I suppose that is not good for the environment. But what they eat turns into fertilizer sooner or later so they continue the cycle of life. The problem with burning stuff like fossil fuels is that it does not further the cycle of life.

But if we all rode horses, that would be a problem too. In a city like Los Angeles, however, we need to get out of our cars and walk and ride public transportation.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #25)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:53 PM

77. Should we increase the gas tax to match Europe?

There is no feasible way to stop fossil fuels in the near future. Solar and wind is fine longer term and we need to encourage it, but we are a long ways away from that replacing oil for energy. There is a reason that Europe has made progress; they tax gasoline very high to discourage its use and to pay for mass transit etc.

The tax on gas in Europe is something like $5/gallon. If Bernie Sanders is serious about replacing fossil fuels quicker he should propose that as part of his platform. Thinking the vast majority of voters won't care for it though.

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Response to MichMan (Reply #77)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:21 PM

78. Yes! And farmers and others who need gas for their businesses should be allowed to

deduct the tax costs from their income taxes as a business expense.

But the rest of us need to get with the program.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 10:25 PM

22. Maybe California could trade electricity for water

Bad joke............

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #22)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 10:31 PM

23. It will happen!

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #23)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 10:33 PM

24. It would be nice to see more states trade resources

Once we fight off Nestle's water bottling plant we should be ok for awhile.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 03:31 AM

36. That's because we haven't decided to build it yet

If we moved the subsidy budget of just the oil industry and used it for ONE YEAR we could build the largest solar panel plant in human history, and put those things on the roof of everyone in the country who thinks paying an electric bill to ANOTHER corporation every month is a dumb idea.

Yes, the Government should control the Means of Production here, because it's quite clear that the Energy Industry doesn't want to.
Fuck em then.

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Response to Volaris (Reply #36)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 03:21 PM

58. I don't think the problem is that...

...we don't have the capacity to manufacture solar panels. I think the problem is that solar panels don't have the capacity to supply our demand for electricity.

We aren't in a position yet to say "go to hell " to fossil fuels.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:37 PM

45. I Drive A Volt

 

No viable alternatives?

What were you the poster child of PosterChild?

Lack of solutions?

I have used 5 gallons of gas in 2 months.

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Response to Yallow (Reply #45)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 02:54 PM

56. My next car....

.... may be a volt. But your volt isn't carbon free; the electricity to charge it is almost certainly coming from a fossil fuel source.

So we are not yet in a position to say "to hell with fossil fuels". If we did your volt would run out of electricity.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:40 PM

46. It's the damn "moderate approach" that has gotten us in the huge hole. We need change

 

and now. 50 million Americans living in poverty don't want to hear "moderate".

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #46)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 03:14 PM

57. Those 50 million Americans ....

.... are going to be mighty pissed when they have to spend the winter in the cold and the dark because we said "to hell with fossil fuels".

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #57)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 03:21 PM

59. So you think that a progressive would shut off heat for the poor? Progressives are trying

 

to get us out of this hole that the wealthy 1% and their bought and paid for politicians have dug for us.

A vote for Clinton is a vote to continue the continued widening wealth gap that is literally killing Americans living in poverty. Vote for Goldman-Sachs for more corp-profits and more poverty.

How can a Democrat justify supporting the billionaires and Wall Street.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #59)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 03:41 PM

61. If progesives don't want to shut off heat to the poor...

...., and to a lot of other people also, saying "to hell with fossil fuels" just won't be possible in the upcoming decades . This is an example of a conflict between short term and long term progressive goals.

Some problems, such as climate change, just don't have easy, reasonable, short term solutions. Getting angry and adopting extreme measures won't help. It will only hurt those who are already hurting and will hurt quite a few more also. Moderation is called for because moderation has the best chance to solve the problem and to do so in a humaine way.

Extremism demands that one, or a few, goals be pursued to the exclusion of other goals and values and without regard to the general consequences. Extremism is inherently inhumane.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #61)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 05:15 PM

64. I don't call wanting to get off fossil fuels as extreme. The inaction of the last four decades

 

is "inhumane". Allowing oil profits to come before water quality for the People is inhumane. People are literally dying for lack of proper diet, inadequate health care, etc. We have the highest infant mortality rate of all modern nations. Fixing that isn't extreme.

What's sad is that we've normalized corporations looting the middle and working classes and any mention to change that is labelled extreme by those wanting no change.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #64)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 05:34 PM

67. You are not correctly characterizing my criticism....

.... i am not against change, nor do I label any mention of change at all as being extreme. My objection is to the sugestion that we tell the fossil fuel industry "to go to hell". We aren't going to be able to do without fossil fuels for decades , maybe even tens of decades, and that being the case I find this sort of rhetoric objectionable and destructive of the careful , considered approach we have to take in order to solve complex problems without doing more harm than good.

As you know , unfair as it is, Sanders has been slandered as an obnoxious , angry old man. Part of the reason for that may be his habit of indulging in this sort of ill considered demagoguery.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #67)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 05:47 PM

69. The alternate to Sanders is more and more of the looting by the wealthy 1%.

 

HRC's fortune will grow, the profits of the mega-corps will grow and the poverty rates will grow. They can't keep us down forever. The longer this situation of corrupt government run by billionaires goes the more sever the eventual reaction.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #69)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:44 PM

72. Um huh, sure. None the less....

..... the alternative to fossil fuels, within the foreseeable future, is basically zero. So get used to having those fossil fuel industries around for a while longer .

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #57)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 02:24 PM

81. It's irrational to think there are merely two possibilities

 

It's irrational to think there are merely two possibilities-- cold winters or dependency on fossil fuels.

Though I imagine an attempt to rationalize will be forthcoming...

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 08:59 PM

18. right, we need a lot more solar and wind power

abilities in this country. Especially the non-commercial types. So that when the power lines go down in winter, very few people lose their power at home. Now that would be a fabulous country. I say add self sufficient power to all new homes, businesses and factories.

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Response to demigoddess (Reply #18)

Sat Nov 21, 2015, 09:43 PM

21. Easily said . ..

.... not easily done.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:15 AM

26. Already achieved 9% of total electricity through wind generation, by 2014- Texas!

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Response to DhhD (Reply #26)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:51 AM

29. Excellent ! Are they ready....

.... to tell the fossil fuel industries to " go to hell " ? Or maybe it's a little to soon for that.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:47 AM

42. So don't do it?

It's hard!!!





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Response to PosterChild (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:29 PM

55. That's what Republicans said ...

about putting a man on the moon.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:06 PM

71. Iowa generates a third of their energy with wind already.... so it's not that hard.

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Response to Luciferous (Reply #71)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:15 PM

75. Nation wide we are at 4.4% .....

Which is pretty good, but not "go to hell" good.

Wind power generated 4.4 percent of all the electricity in America in 2014 and maintained its position as the fifth largest electricity source in the U.S., according to the latest data from the U.S. Department of Energy’s (DOE) Energy Information Administration (EIA). Iowa led the nation by producing 28.5 percent of its electricity from wind power, followed by South Dakota at 25.3 percent and Kansas at 21.7. Wind energy provided more than 15 percent of electricity in a total of seven states, more than 10 percent in a total of nine states, and more than five percent in a total of 19 states.


http://www.awea.org/MediaCenter/pressrelease.aspx?ItemNumber=7294

In order to fully evaluate the Iowa statistic you would have to know how much electricity is actually consumed in Iowa. If the state isn't very populated , relatively little wind might be needed to make a substantial proportion.

I think the national percentage is probably the best indicator of where we are at and what the magnitude of the challenge is.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:25 PM

80. Tell that to Europe and Kenya

did you watch 60minutes last night?

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:44 AM

33. Kicked and recommended to the Max!

They know climate change is real in South Carolina. Many own coastal homes that are losing value every day. It is an economic disaster mostly affecting the people that are traditional Republicans. This could be a huge issue in South Carolina.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 02:01 AM

35. He gets better every day.

We just have to work hard and make sure we see him in the White House.

GO BERNIE!!!

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 04:12 AM

37. Kick and R

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 07:09 AM

38. The Voice of Conscience is his. n/t

 

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:43 AM

39. Al Gore said it in 2008:

If we were to build a solar panel grid 100 square miles (ten miles by ten miles) out in the desert somewhere, we could supply most of the electricity needs of the United states with it.

We'd still need fossil fuels for long distance motor vehicles and airplanes, plus we'd have a LOT of out-of-work people in the fossil and nuclear fuel industries that would need social assistance for years. Even so, the long-term transition is not an option. The only question is if we get to it too late or not.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:24 AM

40. K&R #1 issue for anyone with a lick of empathy towards others.

Just look at the minor consequences we are facing so far. This is nothing. It is Eden in comparison to a generation from now. When one considers the cost to the poorest of the world and to the natural world. It is almost beyond comprehension.

The longer they can drag on business as usual the more they can insulate themselves with proceeds from the horrible reality they are creating and cloaking in secrecy.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:05 AM

43. You know, folks, absolutism doesn't make your case on this stronger

Anyone trying to suggest that Bernie wants to immediately cap every well on the planet and replace or eliminate the multitude of non-energy things currently relying on oil cannot possibly be serious. We are not left with just two alternatives: drill baby drill, or life in a straw hut.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:43 PM

47. What an incredible thing to say!!!!!!!!!!

To say something like that,.... puts him against Exon Mobile..and Chevron, and Shell and BP..those guys got lots of money.

wonder if those guys will be for Bernie?????......

nope..Those guys will be for .....anybody but Bernie.....



oh..about climate change...last night we had a hard freeze..today is Nov 21..My tomato plant in front of my place froze out.I live in a northern climate ..near Milwaukee..I can't remember these kinds of plants ever, that is ever..surviving this late in the season. So...Bernie is correct on this one...

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #47)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:21 PM

53. Why is it so shocking that a major candidate sides with US against Big Energy? It should not be out

of the ordinary that a political candidate sides with the people, but it is a shocking break from ordinary campaign rhetoric.

What does that say about how far we have fallen from the days when both Democrats (like FDR) and Republicans (like T Roosevelt and Ike) unequivocally sided with the people against the corporations; and ,nowadays, that is a bold departure from the status quo?

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #53)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 05:41 PM

68. Like I have said before.

Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.

Then Bernie will win.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:53 PM

48. It Is Cold - My Volt Says 24 Miles On Battery

 

My Volt is a 2011 and when it is warm gets 35 to 38 miles on battery before the "engine" generator "starts".

Today I will drive to work, and plug it in.

Leave work with full battery, drive home, plug it in.

Drive to brother in law's (12 miles one way) and try to get home on battery.

Even if my engine starts for a mile or two, my car gets almost 40 mpg after the battery is drained.

So I may use 1/10 of a gallon of gas this week......

Don't tell me that we "need" to burn 10 gallons per week per American.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150325/OEM06/150329911/average-u.s.-gasoline-usage-lowest-in-3-decades-study-says

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Response to Yallow (Reply #48)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:50 PM

73. I like the volt...

..... next car I buy probably will be one. But don't kid yourself , that electricity is coming from somewhere and that somewhere is burning something and that something is releasing co2.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #73)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:53 AM

79. Not Seattle City Light

 

Water Power

As clean as you can get, though not perfect.....

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Response to Yallow (Reply #79)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:06 PM

82. Then you're offset..

.... not true for the nation as a whole.

Even if we aren't there yet, electric cars are advantageous because as we build out more renewable and reduced carbon electrical generation capabilities, they automatically take advantage of it. That's why I want one even though it will be awhile before my power sources are carbon free.

But you knew that.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 12:57 PM

49. In 30 Years There Will Be No Seafood - Sorry Kids

 

Tell your grandchildren what seafood used to taste like.....

National Geographic

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/11/061102-seafood-threat.html

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Response to Yallow (Reply #49)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 04:00 PM

62. That's an interesting article . ...

...., and proposes some improvements that can be made

But areas managed for improved biodiversity can and do recover, Worm says, raising the possibility that the trend can be reversed if humans take action.

"Where we [protect marine areas] around the world—from the tropics to temperate ecosystems—we see an increase in species diversity and productivity and stability and economic revenue from those ecosystems," he said. ....The study recommends an ecosystem management approach that sets aside some zones completely off-limits to any human activity while opening others to certain uses, such as recreation, research, and fishing. "It's exactly what we do on land, and we've been doing it for a long time," Worm said.


No where does he sugest that we abandon fossil fuels. The aproach he recomends is quite reasonable and is, in fact, being implemented - Obama has recently expanded our marine preservation zones.

So what does this have to do with saying to hell with fossil fuels ?

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:00 PM

51. Bernie is now, beyond all debate, The Best Democratic Candidate For POTUS Ever.

"...To hell with the fossil fuel industry. Worry more about your children and your grandchildren than your campaign contributions.”

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:01 PM

52. I like Bernie more every time he opens his mouth.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:28 PM

54. Thank you Bernie for speaking truth to power, yet again. I admire your courage. -nt-

 

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 03:23 PM

60. This president-to-be

 

spews truths more often than Old Faithful spews hot water. And both truth and hot water are what the Koch's should be doused with.

FEEL THE BERN, brothers of hate and greed!

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 04:14 PM

63. it's a figure of speech, people

Only a straw man portrays Sanders as about to end use of all fossil fuels overnight.

But unless we say "to hell with it," and start extracting less and less until we're using a bare minimum, we'll find ourselves in the future both (1) with an inhospitable environment and (2) suddenly running out of fossil fuels with no alternative power system in place.

The resulting suffering would vastly exceed the slight discomfort of increased energy costs in the short term that would result from increasing our use of renewables.

Clearly, Sanders has facts and truth on his side. Nobody can just throw a switch and turn off the oil or coal overnight.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 05:34 PM

66. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Attorney in Texas.

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