Cologne Police: Roving Packs Sexually Assaulted Dozens on New Year's Eve

[oberliner]

Source: NBC News

MAINZ, Germany — Roving packs of men sexually assaulted dozens of women on New Year's Eve in western Germany's city of Cologne, officials said, describing the attacks as unprecedented.

The spree suggested a "new dimension of organized criminality," German justice minister Heiko Maas told a press conference on Tuesday.

Police said the attackers — who struck in pairs and groups of up to 20 men — appeared to be part of a larger, 1,000-strong group that had gathered in one of the city's main plazas for New Year's celebrations.

Cologne's police spokesman Thomas Held told NBC News that authorities had fielded around 90 complaints of pick-pocketing, groping and at least one of rape.

Read more: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cologne-police-roving-packs-sexually-assaulted-dozens-new-year-s-n490371

[MowCowWhoHow III]

1. Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women

Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women

The mayor of Cologne has summoned police for crisis talks after about 80 women reported sexual assaults and muggings by men on New Year's Eve.

The scale of the attacks on women at the city's central railway station has shocked Germany. About 1,000 drunk and aggressive young men were involved.

City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said.

Women were also targeted in Hamburg.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35231046

[philosslayer]

2. The war on women appears to be moving to Europe

Quite discouraging. I thought European men were a bit more enlightened in their attitudes toward women.

[CanonRay]

3. Per the last sentence of the article, possibly they were not "European"?

[whathehell]

5. The report states "The men were of Arab or North African appearance".

[FrodosPet]

9. Unpossible

Must be a mistranslation, or a false flag operation.

And even if it IS Arabs or North African men, then it is bigoted to expect them to surrender their traditions and values just because they live in Germany now.

[MrsMatt]

12. I think you forgot the sarcasm tag

[FrodosPet]

37. I would hope it would be self evident

But I guess it always isn't.

[demigoddess]

93. I heard the sarcasm

but then I can tell a real poster from someone who just wants to grouch at people.

[TipTok]

142. Poe's law in action...

[get the red out]

33. +1

THANK YOU!!!!! (And yes, I know it is sarcasm, LOL, brilliant)

[Ivan Kaputski]

50. Is this one of those "You can't handle the truth" thingies?

For some, PC is everything, to a fault.

[jberryhill]

154. What "traditions and values" might those be

And how do you know the birthplace and residential history of those involved?

[yeoman6987]

47. Lol. Not European at all.

[Warren DeMontague]

124. Yeah, that sound you hear is the airplane of your narrative crashing into a mountain of facts.

[Coventina]

20. Sorry to see that you got a bogus hide down-thread.

My sympathies.....

[smirkymonkey]

177. Yeah, I don't get it at all.

[get the red out]

36. Agree with post #20

[leftynyc]

44. I'll add my apologies

to your getting that post hidden. It was a bullshit hide and I would have voted for it to stand. Some liberals simply can't stand that Bill Maher was absolutely right and I'm not willing to give up supreme court nominations by keeping my head in the sand.

[alp227]

118. Maher was right? So would you support Donald Trump's Muslim policy? nt

[leftynyc]

120. Spare me the hysteria

That's quite a freeking leap in what passes for logic. How does Bill Maher being right about many on the left giving Islam a pass they would never give any other religion mean I would support stopping all immigration for Muslims? Check you kneejerk bullshit and just admit the truth. You'll feel better for it.

[bullwinkle428]

7. Rape culture is clearly not an exclusively American thing.

[oberliner]

10. Clearly not

I wouldn't think anyone would believe that it is given the prevalence of this sort of crime around the world.

[demigoddess]

94. yeah,

as some people seem to believe that american men never rape or harass women.

[philosslayer]

11. American certainly does do it better than just about everyone else however.

And I hope this isn't a trend we are exporting.

[lunatica]

19. Do you have a link to back your statement?

Your opinion isn't fact. Facts are facts.

[philosslayer]

21. There have been multiple discussions on the American rape culture

Specifically with whats going on on college campuses. I'm not going to do your research for you.

[lunatica]

22. Evidently you don't do your research either

Discussions on a public forum? Really? This is all the evidence you need?

[get the red out]

34. Well, with all those exposed women

Loose on campuses, no male escort, getting out of their homes, mingling with men, what do you expect? That's not allowed in the US......NO WAIT!!!!!!!

[oberliner]

39. That is definitely not true

Not even close.

[leftynyc]

45. Got any numbers to back

up that bullshit? And what on earth do you mean by doing it better? At least here it's against the fucking law and I don't have to worry about being stoned to death for being raped while single. Your post is disgusting.

[Triana]

13. "Roving Packs of Men"....

Roving packs of dogs....same diff.

I say call animal control. Round up their rabid asses. Toss them in the local animal shelter - concrete enclosure. Douse them with flea bath. Hose the pee out a couple times a day. Fresh water and dog chow...

If they're going to act like packs of dogs, treat them like dogs.

[Fix The Stupid]

14. ISnt this racist?

They say,

"Police on Monday had said the suspects appeared to be of "Arab or North African descent,"

And you call them 'rabid' dogs???

How is that not racist?

[Triana]

16. I didn't reference color in my comment and in fact

had not even read the article in re: their race so had no idea what their race was.

YOU however did reference it.

So... yea. Stop projecting.

[Fix The Stupid]

24. You call them "rabid dogs" and haven't read the article?

If you had read the article before commenting (novel idea, I know) and then saw this statement from the police...

"Police on Monday had said the suspects appeared to be of "Arab or North African descent,"

Would you have STILL called them "rabid dogs"?

If not, why not? If so, why so?

[SkyDaddy7]

26. I don't care what color they are!!

Where they come from...They're rabid disgusting ANIMALS!!!!

Does that hurt your feelings? Are you about to defend rapist & sexual predators over their race? You're disturbed!

[Triana]

28. BINGO. Well said. n/t

[duplex]

68. Very well said

Criminality does not warrant excuses based on race, creed or religious beliefs. Crime is crime.

[smirkymonkey]

159. Thank YOU!

[Triana]

27. Based on their behavior, YES!

Unless you consider roving packs of men (of any color or nationality) going around assaulting women to be A-OK in your book. Wonderful people, right?

Based ON THEIR BEHAVIOR, yep.

And if they were white American men and behaved that way, I'd STILL call them RABID DOGS because that's what they're ACTING like.

I didn't differentiate in re: RACE. Their behavior is what's at question.

[FrodosPet]

41. Sexual abusers are rabid dog

No matter who they are or where they come from.

[Fix The Stupid]

66. Ok, my attempt at proving a point was a little clumsy...

Of course I don't think any of you people are racists - my god, I wouldn't be on this site if I did...

For the record, I can think of many, many, many awful things to call these 'people' and they would all be true...

I just wanted to see if the condemnation would change once the races of the perpetrators is known...

Sort of like this:

- Headline gets posted that says 'Roving Packs Sexually Assaulted Dozens on New Year's Eve'
- Many people post from their heart what everyone is really thinking..."Awful people, round them up send them to prison, throw away the key", which is what I would hope for as well..
- Now we find out that "Police on Monday had said the suspects appeared to be of "Arab or North African descent"
- I post that bit about calling them dogs as 'racist' because, again, "Police on Monday had said the suspects appeared to be of "Arab or North African descent"

I wanted to see who would back that claim up - I was presently surprised no one did and condemned me for bringing it into the conversation...again, a happy surprise.

I thought for sure there would be posts of "can't blame them ,it's their culture, their upbringing and any criticism is 'racist' because, again, "Police....said the suspects appeared to be of "Arab or North African descent"


Maybe the PC bullshit in your country is waning? I hope so...

Again, I just wanted to see if the condemnation would change once the races of the perpetrators was known...

* POST edited * Look at post# 57 - excusing their behaviour because 'they didn't know better' - exactly the response I was trying to elicit -sickening.

[SkyDaddy7]

29. They're roving packs of DOGS!!!!

Whether they came from the moon or Africa or Jupiter or America...This person trying to accuse you of being racist is beyond disgusting!!! These are the type of "regressives" that give true Progressives a bad name! SHAME!

Sexual predators are ANIMALS, period!

[geek tragedy]

31. insulting roving packs of rapists is not racist nt

[Triana]

32. Exactly.

It's the behavior that's at issue, not their race.

[get the red out]

35. It's an insult to dogs

To call rapists dogs. Any rapist, anywhere, any time.

[Ace Rothstein]

46. Fitting user name.

[Bucky]

98. Not racist because it's not about race. It's about gender based violence and men behaving brutally

If they'd been white, the same pejorative would apply. They were acting like a pack of predators. It's barbaric and deserves to be called for.

(I agree we should generally avoid equating ethnic groups in general with animals--that would certainly be racist--but being in an unfairly discriminated minority group doesn't give qualifications against being called barbaric for utterly unhuman behavior.

[whathehell]

129. I agree, but in regard to "being white", Arabs are Caucasian

so they are, in fact, "white".

[Bucky]

143. I think you don't know what "race" is

Race is an artificial social construct with no objective physiological basis for determining who is a member in which race. Race means nothing more than "a group of people who are commonly associated together". So, yes, "Caucasian" is a race of people, but so is "Arab" and so is "Franco-Algerian" and so is "Presbyterian" or "type O negative blood carriers" or "metalheads" or "tuna fishers" for that matter.

[whathehell]

178. I think you know that deinition is not what's commonly understand by the term..

but I guess it comes in handy when trying to avoid admitting an error. Good luck with the tuna fisher race.

[Lizzie Poppet]

111. Only if one claims their atrocious behavior is caused by their race.

Otherwise, nope.

[christx30]

15. Agreed. And if they are

refugees, jail them for 10 years, then put them on a plane. Land at the Damascus airport, kick them off the plane on the tarmac, take off. Their lives are not a problem for the west.

[closeupready]

17. Well that's no good. Shame on them!

Throw them in prison/deport them back to their hellholes/whatever.

This kind of behavior is always unacceptable, but there is the added dimension to this - the allegations that the perps were North African - which if true, casts a bad light on everyone who seeks asylum, MOST of whom are hardworking members of families who just want to live normal lives, and raise their children well, i.e., NOT like this.

So yeah, this really stinks. K&R

[DFW]

18. Anyone to whom this comes as a surprise......

...must have spent the last 30 years about thirty feet underground.

[philosslayer]

23. It came as a surprise to me

Please elaborate since you obviously know something the rest of us don't.

[DFW]

25. Be glad to. I live in Germany. Do you?

Jam a few tens of thousands of young guys into cramped living quarters with nothing to do for months on end, no thorough cultural introduction in their language as to the ways of their new host country, and a lot of pent-up energy and hostility at being bored out of their minds, and if you expect them to act as inductees in a Buddhist monastery, you haven't been in our neck of the woods any time within the last six months.

Plenty of "the rest" of you seem to have figured that one out without too much difficulty--even the ones who don't live in Germany, which seems to be the majority, although I haven't taken any polls.

[LisaL]

30. Most of us on DU don't live in Germany.

So it's kind of unfair to be accusing posters of living under the rock for 30 years if we are not up to date on the situation there.

[DFW]

42. Have to disagree there

It's not like the media has been keeping it a secret what we are going through.

Find out first, post second, rather than accuse me of pompously saying I know something "the rest of us" don't. That is rather going overboard, since these days, it takes all of 90 seconds to find out. Don't tell me it comes as a shock, when it is the most predictable thing in the world, even if you have never been farther than a ten mile radius from Sioux City.

[philosslayer]

38. Thank you for your response

You are right, I don't live in Germany, and I appreciate your perspective.

What do you believe the solution to this problem is?

[DFW]

49. Ah, there, as the Bard says, is the rub.

A great book I once read once began with an elderly Aztec being asked by the invading Spaniards to tell of his life in brief, in order to chronicle what Aztec life was like before the Spaniards came. He described their request as trying to shove an oak tree back into the acorn from which it had sprouted.

Merkel had all the good intentions in the world, and the first wave was welcomed with open arms. Of course, that was the first few thousand who came after a hostile reception in Eastern Europe, and Germany was eager to show how much more accommodating they were. It sure made for great pics on the evening news.

The trouble is as with any large bureaucracy. When the numbers swelled into the tens and then hundreds of thousands, the federal government told that states (there are 16 in Germany) "you will take in so many." The State governments, no more able to get their hands around the situation than the Bundesregierung (federal government), passed the nuts and bolts tasks on down where the towns and cities were faced with the real job of taking care of these people. One town with 100 inhabitants was told "you are getting 700 refugees tomorrow." They set about franctically building tents and temporary latrines, but they had no physical capacity to house seven times their population.

My own town, with maybe 50,000 people, has been forced to vacate the music school and several sports facilities. Several nearby community centers have been taken over to house the refugees. We have had to rewire and reconnect several condemned buildings to water and electricity. They are unsafe by German standards, but as they probably won't collapse tomorrow and these people need shelter today, the buildings are being used. There will be ugly riots if one of them collapses with people in it. We already have a local food bank for people who have none, and it is, obviously, way more crowded than it ever was. You wouldn't believe the diversity of responses. Some of the refugees are profoundly grateful for whatever they can get. Some complain and demand food that isn't available as if they were preferred patrons at an upscale restaurant. In other words, pretty much the whole human gamut. The townspeople have reacted, predictably enough, according to the degree in which they have been affected. Parents of kids taking music lessons and parents of athletes are resentful. Some of our friends who have retired are volunteering to help out at the refugee centers. They speak no Arabic, so communication is primitive. The government has provided ZERO translators. We have many Turks, but Turkish is not related to Arabic linguistically, so where they might provide food and mosques, they cannot help with communication.

To add to the problem, several passport printing centers in Syria were captured by ISIS, who has been selling blank, genuine Syrian passports on the black market all over the Middle East (going rate last I heard was $1000 US). Therefore, we have thousands of economic refugees from Afghanistan and even Bangadesh trying to come is as Syians. With no rudimentary linguistic skills and poor ethnic knowledge, overwhelmed border authorities have no way to know the difference. The social unrest was pre-programmed. The culture from which the overwhelming majority of these people come has a completely different idea of how women and girls are treated from the (relatively) enlightened German one. NO one ever told them what to expect, how to act, or what the penalties were for going against the rules. German law is notoriously lenient, but that has only given rise to ugly far right gangs who are far less lenient than the law.

So, a solution after the horse has left the barn? More damage control than a solution at this point. I saw that the Bavarians were trying to impose a limit of 200,000 refugees as opposed to Merkel's 1 million within a year. Good luck with that. Way more have probably already arrived. We must try to cope with who is already in Germany, prepare those on the way for the fact that their lives will not be pleasant for a long time after they arrive, no matter how good our intentions. But if someone thinks they will face certain violent death if they stay home, they WILL come. Europe will not be the same, our free and liberal social life will be compromised for decades, and we do ourselves no favors by sticking our heads in the sand hoping the storm will pass us by. It is here, and it won't.

[philosslayer]

52. An excellent response

Thank you very much for taking the time to compose it.

The German culture will undoubtedly change forever going forward. The grandchildren of the current migrants will not be wearing Lederhosen in 50 years. Traditional German ways will slowly merge with the ways of the migrants, and an entirely new culture will be born in the decades to come. This will indeed happen all over Europe. Christianity will slowly fade and die (as its already a relic in much of Europe anyway), and Islam will grown exponentially as its already begun to do. The grand cathedrals of yesteryear will be reborn (and revitalized) as Mosques. The rich culture and heritage that the migrants are bringing will undoubtedly strengthen Germany. Hopefully, Germans can see past the current pain.

The Europe of 2066 will certainly be a place to behold!!

[Ace Rothstein]

54. This post reads like an Onion article.

I hope it is sarcasm.

[philosslayer]

56. Not at all

Please tell me what part you disagree with?

The people fleeing the Middle East for Germany, and Europe, are fleeing oppressive governments. Just how those who fled Europe for the United States hundreds of years ago. They "yearn to breathe free" as it were, and see Europe as their best opportunity to do so. Germany is rapidly becoming the "mixing bowl" that the United States has been since its founding. This constant infusion of new cultures and new energies has been part of our (United States) strength, and Germany will benefit from it as well.

[Ace Rothstein]

61. Many of those arriving in Europe have no intention of being a part of the "mixing bowl".

I've read too many articles and stories about Islam in Europe to think this is a good thing.

[DFW]

86. There is good and bad

The line between the two is often anything but clear.

I recommend coming to see for yourself rather than reading articles, which may or may not have an agenda. If you haven't already, learn German or French (preferably both) so you can talk to people on the ground, and form your own opinion. Islam in Europe is like Christianity in the USA--it has many faces. Some are tranquil and accommodating, and some are very, very ugly. The only thing it is NOT is uniform.

[leftynyc]

90. Me too

But I fear it is not and this poster really believes all that bullshit. There is plenty of culture these migrants need to leave behind - primarily their treatment of women, gays and minorities. If they think (like the poster above) that the young are turning away from Christianity just so they can turn to Islam, they're too delusional to deal with. Either they will assimilate and adapt to western culture or they can go home.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

109. You've been "philoslayered"

Guy is a piece of work.

[philosslayer]

116. Tell me where my guess for the future of Europe is wrong?

Please. I welcome an alternative view.

[leftynyc]

121. It's wrong because

young people are turning away from religion. This is happening all over the world. If you think the Christians of Europe are going to hand over their culture to those who treat women like shit, kill gays and believe in a deeply patriarchal society, you couldn't be more wrong. You'll never get the majority of women to join that bullshit. These immigrants will either decide to assimilate or they will continue to live in their ghettos and on the edges of society. Currently, Europe is much less religious than the US but they've also had freedoms they're not going to give up. It's delusional to think they will welcome a takeover by Islam.

[The2ndWheel]

65. It's amazing how everything will work out perfectly

It'll all blend together with only a few short term problems. Neat and tidy, just like the mixing bowl of America. No long standing or simmering issues here.

In physical reality though, there's going to be a downside to your upside.

[Coventina]

74. Ick. That sounds horrible speaking as an Art Historian.

Why continue the desecration of historical sites?
Build new mosques, if they are needed.

Churches should not be turned into mosques, nor mosques into churches.
I know it has happened in the past, on both sides, since the invention of Islam in the 7th century, but it's time for humanity to grow up and stop trying to appropriate other's stuff.

I've been to the Cologne Cathedral, specifically to see the Gero Crucifix contained within, for which it was commissioned over 1000 years ago.

One can only assume that if Cologne Cathedral were appropriated as a mosque, the Crucifix would have to go from the place for which it was intended. And what would happen to it?

Your vision of the future is appalling.

[Throd]

76. Most cathedrals are cruciform in plan view. Bulldoze 'em!

[Coventina]

82. This is true as well. And nearly all of them are repositories of many works of art.

Art that I am sure would not be acceptable in mosques.

And, not all of the art is exactly removable, either, being carved into the surfaces of the architecture.

Converting them into mosques would require, as you say, bulldozing them or destroying much of their innate properties.

I am dismayed that it would even be suggested.

[whathehell]

96. Yeah, that would be like the Taliban destoying the ancient Buddha in Afghanistan

Mucho stupid from an historical and cultural standpoint.

[DFW]

80. The unclear part is how much each side will give and take

Your post deserved more than a three line quip, I thought.

While Christianity is certainly fading, many of the younger Muslim immigrants are discovering that the liberal social traditions of the countries they are coming to are more to their liking than the ones they left. While the boys are having trouble figuring out that women wearing short skits do not necessarily mean they want to be hit on, their sisters are seeing that German girls can go out (or to bed) with German boys and not suffer the wrath of Allah. Third generation Turkish girls in Germany, depending on their family background, might wear a headscarf and get virginity tests, or else be living with their boyfriends in a jointly rented apartment somewhere. The grand cathedrals are more likely to end up as museums as mosques--as, some day, will the mosques (think Córdoba).

Immigration into a foreign culture doesn't always follow one set path. My sister-in-law was condemned to being a bank teller if she stayed in Japan. She followed my brother back home to Washington and ended as vice-director for the World Bank for Asia. The ceiling she ran up against in Tokyo in 1980 was not there in Washington. At the travel agency that does my train tickets in Germany, there are two guys that take care of my account. One is German, the other Turkish. Listening to them talk, you couldn't tell which is Turkish and which is German, and indeed, the Turk WAS born in Germany. He still speaks decent Turkish, but even though he is Muslim by family tradition, he drinks alcohol, eats pork, and does not consider the word of the Koran to be the inviolate word of Allah or anyone else.

Germany is a special case as far as receptiveness to foreign cultures. After the War, Hitler's glorification of German culture brought a huge backlash. The most sought after folk music acts were from Scotland and Ireland. Israelis were welcomed with open arms by the young people, and Jewish music experienced a huge revival. Frankfurt still has a lively Klezmer scene. My wife still remembers her first pizza, and I was the one who introduced her to Asian food. We met at age 22. One of our favorite restaurants in Düsseldorf is called ArabesQ. It is in a former rich man's house that was made over with high ceilings and mosaic walls when it became the Moroccan consulate in the 1930s. But the German identity has experience a resurgence in recent years, too. My kids' generation has told me that the worst thing the Nazis did to them (born 40 years after the war, after all) was to take way their right to be proud of their own culture. Think of how many classical music virtuosi have been people from cultures other than the ones that produced the music in which they are so proficient. SO, Germans, especially modern Germans, are used to being receptive to foreign cultures, with one proviso--it doesn't work if it is forced upon them. That is where Germany must tread lightly, and so must our newest "guests." Opening restaurants, giving concerts, becoming professors, all THAT works. But it takes only one case of a German girl being raped by a mob of young Muslim men to undo a lot of progress. The old attitude of "showing tolerance" won't cut it any more. Not in the internet age. As easy as it was for the Friday The 13th killers in Paris to organize their carnage, that's how easy it would be for some dedicated Neo-Nazis to organize "retaliation" for an attack on a German girl, and they are just as indifferent about getting the right bad guys as the Paris attackers were. The sooner the German government realizes this and dedicates a LOT of resources to educating immigrants BEFORE settling them, the better. Assimilation depends on it.

I can't even imagine Europe in 2066. It sure as hell has changed a lot in the time since I've been hanging out there, and the first time for me was 48 years ago.

[Lizzie Poppet]

112. So instead of progressing, they'll revert?

Instead of progressing away from the superstitious beliefs of Bronze Age nomads who had no idea of there the fucking sun goes at night, they're instead revert to an even more delusional, misogynist, homophobic, regressive, anti-scientific belief system?

Fuck that. Fuck it long and hard. Without lube.

[snooper2]

148. That is the dumbest thing I have read so far this week...but it is only Wednesday LOL

[philosslayer]

161. Oh?

Please critique my statement then. Tell me which part you disagree with.

[GummyBearz]

158. Great... they will ruin another area of the world

Guess I better get to Germany fast before its Syria part 2

[philosslayer]

160. Please elaborate...

Who is "they"?

[smirkymonkey]

164. Oh god, please!

[duplex]

77. Great post

It's always so interesting to hear first hand accounts from countries I've never been to.

[DFW]

84. There are a LOT of countries and cultures out there

Germany encourages students to take a year of high school in another country--ANY other country, and the government helps finance it if the parents can't.

I was put in such a program when I was 16, ended up in Catalunya (Catalonia). Best thing that ever happened to me. I wish it were mandatory for high school kids in the USA. We'd have a LOT less ignorance.

I remember reading the book "Captains Courageous" when I was in grade school. It should be mandatory reading for all kids who never go abroad. Closest thing...

[coyote]

58. My solution to this: deport them

I am in Munich and this policy that Merkel has taken is insane. You do not just open your doors and invite everybody into your house. Especially a culture that is light years from your own. The Turks still have not integrated into German culture and they have been here for 50 years. I know very few people that are in favor of all these refugees coming into Germany.

I believe in Bavaria it's particularly bad...as most of the refugees want come here. Within 5km meters of me, there are 3 air tents with 300 refugees in each tent. People are scared...my wife does not want to walk alone at night anymore and has now bought pepper spray, my colleagues at work (the women) no longer want to ride their bikes alone at night. Even as a man, I don't even feel comfortable when a group 5 refugees walk past by me. Call me a racist, but this policy that Merkel implemented is batshit crazy. It's one thing to allow East Europeans to come into the country which have similar cultural backgrounds, but inviting Syrians that have a totally different cultural up bringing, different language, religion, and have no grasp of German ideals is just crazy.

Germany should do what Switzerland is doing: have them go through a proper tough immigration process. Switzerland will only accept about 40% of the applicants that apply there and send the rest back to their original country.

But like DFW has already said, the horse has already left the barn and we will be dealing with the aftermath her for decades.

[philosslayer]

59. As I said in a previous post

Yes, there will be some short term pain. Some will be inconvenienced. But I believe that in the long run Merkel's compassionate and progressive policies re: migrants will only serve to strength Germany and German culture. And most of Germany and the world do as well.

[coyote]

60. I totally disagree.

This is not an inconvenience, this is totally destroying the freedoms that people took for granted here. Germany is not the United States, where everyone lives in fear. You routinely see women here walking home, for example, from clubs at 3:00 in the morning with no fear of being hurt or scared. That's all changing now.

[romanic]

62. How will the migrants "strengthen" Germany and it's culture

if they don't acclimate and follow the laws of Germany?

[philosslayer]

63. Just like migrants always strengthen and revitalize cultures

And we've fought the same battles in the United States. "No Irish need apply". The discrimination against Italians. People accused them of the exact same thing you're accusing asylum seekers of now. Its soft bigotry to accuse millions of people of not wanting to acclimate and follow the laws of Germany" solely due to the acts of a few.

[romanic]

64. When did Germany and it's culture needed to be "revitalized"?

Or did you mean "Islamafied"?

[philosslayer]

71. All cultures need to be revitalized from time to time

Those that don't tend to be become insular, oppressive and xenophobic.

[romanic]

72. Well some of those migrants

better head on over to Saudi Arabia and revitalize their culture then.

[christx30]

78. But the Italians and the Irish are closer to

the people of the US than Syrians or Afghans or Libyans. And they didn't change the culture. They became part of it. They didn't seek to raze or take over existing churches, as you are saying.

[christx30]

67. It's not going to strengthen German and it's culture.

It's going to destroy it, as philosslayer is saying. And that's a good thing for... reasons, I'm sure.

"The grand cathedrals of yesteryear will be reborn (and revitalized) as Mosques. The rich culture and heritage that the migrants are bringing will undoubtedly strengthen Germany. Hopefully, Germans can see past the current pain."

You know... those cathedrals that have been there for hundreds of years will either be gutted in favor of mosques, or razed completely. Again, it's a good thing for... you know... reasons.
And the current pain he's speaking of is sexual assault, and other crimes. Going out at night is going to be a gamble. Best thing to do is just stay home. "They don't know any better, because of their culture."
What kinds of changes are the newcomers going to demand? Changes in dress? Bans of certain foods and art or religion? What will Germany look like in 50 years? Is it going to be something we want to see? Will it be a country that any of us wants to live in?
But it's all good, right?

[Throd]

75. Xenophelia: the empty headed opposite of xenophobia.

[christx30]

79. Yup.

If you want to see all the wonderful changes to the culture that are in store for Germany (and the rest of Europe if things keep going), see Syria, Iran, Iraq.


Such wonderful paradise.

[Nihil]

128. And it gets stronger with increased distance from the problem. (n/t)

[jberryhill]

155. Consider the implications of this diagram

[Nuclear Unicorn]

130. Roving packs of rapists are an "inconvenience" to you?

"Sorry for the 'inconvenience' ma'am. I hope they didn't inconvenience you too badly."

And what does this savagery possibly bring to German culture to strengthen it? The best scenario would be German culture removing the savagery from these monsters but I don't think the German people should have to endure the inconvenience.

[CharlotteVale]

140. My exact reaction.

[smirkymonkey]

174. How could Merkel not see what an absolute disaster this was going to be?

Not just the heavy influx of immigration, but people from cultures are so different from - and hostile to - your own.

This is going to be a total shitshow.

[tabasco]

43. I could live under those conditions for years

and never be impelled to take part in gang-groping, raping and robbery.

Pitiful, lame excuse for criminal, violent behavior.

Germany will have these problems for some time due to the stupid decision to allow one million plus unscreened immigrants into the country in a short period of time.

[DFW]

51. You have an advantge all the same

You were raised in a culture that taught you that this kind of behavior was wrong. They weren't.

[philosslayer]

57. Exactly

It may sound like a weak excuse, but "they don't know any better" does apply in some cases.

[tabasco]

83. Say that when your daughter or wife gets assaulted.

Making excuses for rapists and robbers is insipid and contemptible.

[DFW]

87. It is the responsibility, if not always within the capacity

.......of the host country to educate and try to indoctrinate the newcomers to the rules of the society they are going to reside in. Many wouldn't accept it even if given the chance, but not to give them the chance dooms far more of them to the life of the perpetual outcast, with all the implications of organized crime and radical cells that it implies.

The German government owes this to its citizens, and it is debt that is far from being paid.

[leftynyc]

91. Too fucking bad

If there are men who think raping a woman - any woman at any time, including their wife - is okay they need to stay in whatever shithole they come from and not infect others with their poison. And I call bullshit on your claim "they don't know any better" - they know rape is wrong - so wrong they use it as a punishment against OTHER MEN by having their women raped. Some cultures deserve getting trashed and left behind.

[smirkymonkey]

175. +1000

I really can't believe some people.

[katsy]

176. 👍🏼

[FrodosPet]

151. No it does not!

No one has the right, regardless of their background or how shitty life has treated them, to rape, stalk, or otherwise harass and harm others.

NO exceptions!

[tabasco]

81. What culture teaches that violent assault and robbery are correct behavior?

I'm curious about this.

What an odd decision by German authorities to allow 1,000,000+ raised in such a manner into their country.

[DFW]

88. It's less black and white than that

We did not invite a million armed robbers and rapists to set up shop as our neighbors. Not all of these people were raised that way, just like not all Iraq vets were trained to come home and become steroid-addled murdering cops.

The Germans were aware that more a few bad apples would indeed be among them. They were incredibly naive in thinking they could weed them out before releasing them into the mass of immigrants. But it is also naive to think that the government deliberately invited nothing but violent single Muslim males to come molest their women. I know I'd go apeshit if my daughter living in Frankfurt got raped by a gang of them, and she has no big problem with the ones there now.

They badly underestimated their capacity to deal with the masses, but it would be fallacious to assume that it was their intention to terrorize their own civilian population. It was predictable due to the sheer numbers that there would be incidents, and it is scandalous that the German government did not think to take counter-measures in advance. But the Germans do not have a monopoly on sticking their heads in the sand, and they WILL get to attempting to attack the problems sprouting up, especially if the only alternative is facing a huge electoral backlash from the far right.

[christx30]

185. Do you think if I and my wife

went to Saudi Arabia, we'd be given the same consideration for violating one of their cultural taboos?
If my wife went for a drive, or I had a beer, there wouldn't be and hand wringing and "it's just their culture."
There is that 74-year old British pensioner that is due to receive 350 lashes for bringing alcohol into the country, even though the punishment would probably kill him. Westerners do not get one bit of slack over there for violations of their religious laws.
They should be treated just like any other criminal there, with the exception that as soon as their sentence is over, they are shipped back to the country they came from (or in the case of fake passports, the country they say they're from).

[hedgehog]

55. There is a difference between taking a vow of celibacy

and going out, getting drunk (not permitted by Islam, BTW) and attacking women.

It reminds me of the "packs of hooligans" whose idea of a good soccer game is one where they send random strangers to the hospital.

No excuse, none.

[DFW]

110. No excuses made

Just looking for cause-and-effect explanation to tackle the problem. The days when they built concentration camps to house everyone with a certain look are gone, and the capacity of the cops to root out the perps of these individual crimes is practically nil, so some serious preventive medicine is needed. It will come in some form or other. The only question is which one. If it's the AfD, things could get uncomfortable. Merkel has maybe a 6 month window to get a grip on this, and I'm pretty sure she realizes it by now.

We need to face the fact that these will not be the last attacks of this nature. Therefore, what to do about the next ones needs to be decided NOW and not afterwards.

[6chars]

131. where do you get that it is tens of thousands of young guys

as opposed to hardworking members of families?

[DFW]

135. From being there

From seeing them in my town, in every town in Germany. There are families, too, but they don't appear to be the majority. It doesn't surprise me, either--after all, those who can move most will be the ones who are most mobile.

[jberryhill]

156. What do you propose as a solution to the problem shown in this diagram?

Do you understand the implications of that diagram?

[DFW]

157. Are you serious?

You're asking me to propose a solution to a demographic gender imbalance in Germany?

"That's not my department" as the great Tom Lehrer once sang. My wife and I had two daughters, both of whom grew up as Germans. We've done our part. I'm not a sociology major.

[jberryhill]

162. The problem is not "gender imbalance"

And you clearly do not understand the implications of that diagram.

Do you see that big lump of middle aged people?

In another 15 years, they are not going to be middle aged.

They are also not going to be replaced by people younger than them.

Absent a rapid influx of younger people - and the Germans have not been doing that the old fashioned way for a number of years - Germany has a severe problem impending which will impair their ability to maintain their existing social structure.

Unless you know of a way to make babies and have them be 20-30 years old next week, they need to come from somewhere.

[matk]

179. It's not that simple.

The problem is not that the old people outnumber the young. If that were so, the only implication of the old generation dying off in the next few decades would be a younger (and smaller) population, which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing.

The real issue here is that the older generation has to be supported. As long as the age pyramid is intact, everything works well as many young peoples' payments into social insurance can support those that need it.

You seem to indicate that the influx of a massive amount of immigrants could fix that, but it's quite likely that it won't, or even make it worse.

In order for migrants to solve Germany's demographic challenges, enough would have to find work quickly, at a pay level that allows them to pay into social insurance. If they don't, they will be eligible for unemployment benefits or other forms of social benefits themselves, which would put even more strain on the system.

Many of those arriving have little education, job qualifications or language proficiency. Those things cannot be fixed in the short term. In the long term it remains to be seen how those staying in Germany can be integrated.

Unless you know of a way to give everyone those skills next week, plus create enough open jobs to employ them all, the solution is far from that simple.

[PersonNumber503602]

183. I am surprised. Are these sorts of things common in the countries they come from?

Obviously we hear about war rapes and horrible things like that, but I don't think I've ever heard of roving groups of rapists going through peaceful North African or Mid-East cities. Then again, I don't think I've went out looking for that information.

[DFW]

184. It differs widely

In tourist areas of Tunesia or Algeria, you might think you were on the Left Bank of Paris. Out in the country, you might think you had somehow plunged into the wrong side of the Crusades.

Also, there ARE organized gangs (not of just Arabs--Eastern Europeans are equally to be feared), and in the refugee camps they have a lot of easy pickings. In Germany, we suffer from organized gangs of profession burglars. They come from Serbia, Lithuania, Albania, etc. Many are ex-military or police, well-trained and poorly paid. Offered the opportunity to ply their skills for a night, be done by dawn and home (by car) for breakfast the following day and getting cash equal to two months' wages for the night of work--who wouldn't? Take a thousand bored guys shivering and bored, offer them 500 euros for a night's work, and five or ten of them will take the risk, especially in a country where law enforcement is still reticent to get tough for fear of being stigmatized as Nazis due to what their grandparents did 75 or 80 years ago.

What Germany's politicians refuse to see is that by not treating newcomers equally under the law, they fuel very nasty right wing extremists who, under normal circumstances, wouldn't get a vote in any election in the country.

[bigworld]

40. Be a shame if some of this miscreants were among those refugees claiming to be from Syria

when they're really from elsewhere. And get deported to the country where they had claimed to be from in order to gain admission into Germany.

[Blue_Tires]

85. Well, you know the black market for

fake Syrian passports has skyrocketed in recent months, so who knows who is from where?

[romanic]

48. Wow

a few of the responses trying to scream "racism" in this thread baffle me. Like someone said, it doesnt matter if most of the perverts came from the Mideast or Jupiter; they're still a bunch of perverts. If there are refugees amongst the attackers, kick thier fucking asses out to a prison back home.

[philosslayer]

53. Unfortunately, many here are painting with a very broad brush

And your point is well taken. A few of the attackers are from the Middle East, and suddenly it turns into a "migrant gang". The extrapolation with little facts or data is shameful.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

133. Just upthread you attempted to claim this was America exporting rape culture now you

complain about broad brushes. I don't know what your agenda is but the hypocrisy, blame shifting and rape apology show it to be absolutely bankrupt.

[oberliner]

137. A few of the attackers?

The police chief said the attackers were primarily from north Africa and the Middle East.

[hollowdweller]

69. Weren't a lot of women assaulted or harrassed during the protests in Egypt?

I remember my aunt going to Morocco years ago and being warned to not go anywhere alone because of this.

If you aren't with a man or covered up according to that mindset you are a whore and deserve it.

I feel sorry for all the middle eastern people fleeing due to their countries being so messed up.

However at the level they are coming to Europe the question is whether they will become more European over time or Europe will become more Islamic?

[philosslayer]

70. The cultures will merge

And ideally, the more negative aspects of both cultures will be marginalized.

[Throd]

73. You make a lot of assumptions based on weird premises.

[Lizzie Poppet]

113. I'd bet any sum they'll do no such thing.

Europe is headed for another bloodbath, another pogrom (only one in which the victims put up a fight)...mark my words. I don't like it one little bit. It will be one of the more horrific events in human history, in fact. But I see little way to avoid it.

[leftynyc]

122. I agree with you

Anyone who thinks Europe will willingly go backwards in terms of freedoms - and this is demanded by Islam - is fucking delusional. I'd move in a heartbeat and if there was a battle, I'd be the first one picking up a gun to fight it. That's a battle worth fighting.

[Bernin]

89. I find

it amazing that Angela Merkel was ever elected. She obviously despises Germany as evidenced in the attached clip.
The real question is why are the German people allowing this woman to single-handedly destroy their country?

[closeupready]

92. "She obviously despises Germany".

Or German nationalism. For good reason. See Nazism, for starters.

[Bernin]

95. Very strange rationalization.

You think this would be appropriate behavior for a US president? I mean with the native American genocide and all.

[closeupready]

97. Are you from Mars, or something? This is what she's thinking in that video:

If you want more than pictures, read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Germany-Germans-United-Mid-1990s-New/dp/0140252665/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1452030623&sr=8-1&keywords=germany+and+the+germans

[Bernin]

99. Wow!

If you can read foreign leaders minds you should work at the state dept.

Deflect all you want. Question still stands.

[christx30]

100. You think 12 years of history

70 years ago is worth trashing your country today, and having no pride in where you live? When she trashes Germany, she's not trying to protect the world from another Hitler. She's insulting the voters that put her in office, and the tax payers that work to pay for the programs she supports.
I hope she is absolutely trounced in the next election. It can't come soon enough.

[closeupready]

102. Ok, the two of you are playing stupid, and I'm done with this squabble.

Bye!

[christx30]

106. I'm not playing stupid.

I'm categorically rejecting your premise. I think you are 100%, absolutely, totally, and in all other ways, wrong.
And if you're right, that Merkel wants to reject the Nazi past of Germany, and chooses to throw away a German flag, then she's wrong as well. If, maybe, she just didn't feel like holding onto a German flag on a stick, and wanted to have her hands free, then that's understandable.

[Bernin]

103. Hopefully Germany will survie to the next election.

[DFW]

108. They have survived the last 2000 years

The Romans, the Middle Ages, the Black Plague, the 100 years war, the 30 years war, the creeping Prussian domination, the (not entirely voluntary) unification, the humiliation of World War I and the aftermath, the horror of the Nazi era, the destruction of World War II, the partition, the economic upheaval of the 1990 reunification. And you think they'll have a social disintegration before the next election? That's like some German asking if the USA would survive 8 years of Reagan or Cheney. We survived the Civil War. Germany will survive this. Like the USA after he Civil War, it will change, but it won't throw in the towel and ask to become a province of the Netherlands.

[MowCowWhoHow III]

101. Cologne mayor recommends women keep "one arm length distance" to avoid assaults like on NYE

#Cologne mayor recommends women keep "one arm length distance" to avoid assaults like on NYE. Twitter lashes back under #einearmlaenge

https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/684493227223826432

[philosslayer]

105. She also said that there is no sign the alleged assaults were linked to refugees

Perhaps the rush to judgement has been misguided.

[MowCowWhoHow III]

107. Or perhaps she's a fucking idiot...

[George II]

114. The same thing happens every year in New Orleans during Mardi Gras, gets very little notice...

...although its several dozen, not 1,000.

[oberliner]

115. Part of what makes this story so shocking is that it took place in Cologne, Germany

As opposed to a city like New Orleans where, sadly, such behavior has been prevalent for some time.

[mwrguy]

117. Islamophobic backlash in 3....2...1...

[oberliner]

119. What would be an appropriate response?

It seems like such crimes are on the rise in Europe for whatever reason.

How can crimes like this be prevented or at least reduced?

[leftynyc]

123. That's rapidly becomming

a lame, lazy excuse to ignore the increase in these kinds of crimes in Europe. Take a look at what's happening Sweden - now called the rape capital of the world. Whining that everyone who is concerned about this is an Islamophobe makes the left look like morons who are too afraid to face truth - truth like rape statistics.

[mwrguy]

150. Who calls Sweden the rape capital of the world?

Aside from right-wing agitators?

[leftynyc]

152. I've heard the term

many times in the last 5 years and I don't watch fox or read right wing news so it obviously came from someplace else. Implying I'm a right wing agitator because you don't like the rape statistics in Sweden is entirely your problem but I've been here a very long time and have been fighting for liberal causes probably longer than you've been alive. Be careful who you start calling names.

[mwrguy]

153. I didn't call you a right-wing agitator

But you are repeating their talking points. Look at who is pushing it: Daily Caller, Allen West, Front Page...

[leftynyc]

166. I'm not clicking any of those links

Just answer me one question. Are they lying? Are they reporting false information or just stuff you find icky?

[mwrguy]

167. That's a screen shot of the top google results.

Allen West lies about everything else, especially when it comes to Islam, so I don't feel too inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. YMMV.

[leftynyc]

168. He's not the only source on that list

So you dismissing all of them is bullshit. If they're ALL lying, I'll take back what I said but they're not so that wont be necessary.

[mwrguy]

169. Every source on that list is a racist, right-wing provocateur

If you go down far enough in google you'll find non-racist sites reporting on what the racist sites are up to, and what they are up to is calling Sweden the rape capital.

It's an Islamophobic canard.

[leftynyc]

171. Wow

And I thought I was going to get through one day on du without someone calling me an Islamophobe. When I did my search, the first link was to Wikipedia. The second one was from the bbc (this was today, I have no idea where I first heard it). Perhaps you skewed the results by the way you asked for the search?

[mwrguy]

172. you can see how i worded the search. it's in the screencap.

"sweden rape capital"

[leftynyc]

173. I went with rape statistics Sweden

and told you what I got. A lot of interesting information in that article that I didn't know. For instance, every single sexual assault is considered on its own - if a woman comes in an says her husband has been raping her every day for a year, that would be 365 charges. But that doesn't change that the perps in the last 10 years have come from the immigrant community in far larger numbers than they represent.

[romanic]

125. "Islamophobia" is clearly the issue here

not a thousand or so women being sexually assaulted in one night.

[RandiFan1290]

126. Too late

These fucking bigots on DU already have it all figured out.

They even know the religion of the perpetrators before police have arrested them.

Amazing huh?

[oberliner]

127. Almost no one has mentioned the religion of the perpetrators on this thread

This is a heinous crime - the likes of which have not been seen in recent history according to the police investigators there.

An apparently coordinately sexual assault spree by a group of men numbering possibly as high as a thousand terrorizing large numbers of women and girls, groping and assaulting them in some cases hundreds of times, causing physical and psychological injury.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

134. I used to think victim-blaming was pretty low until I saw perpetrator-sympathy.

[BeyondGeography]

132. I don't know what happened, but the official language being used

reminds me of the Central Park jogger case, which is inflammatory and not productive.

"Roving packs," has "wilding" written all over it. It's a blatant attempt to dehumanize and stigmatize an entire segment of the population. How many were involved? Who were they? How many incidents were there? What actually happened? Hopefully, some real reporters dig in. I am not saying this didn't happen in the manner that is being portrayed, but the authorities are off to a bad start here.

[oberliner]

136. The reporting on this has been quite extensive

There are answers to every question you've asked here in the numerous news reports and first hand accounts.

Maybe you should dig in yourself if you are genuinely interested.

[BeyondGeography]

138. We're still at the nobody fully knows what happened stage

An investigation is proceeding. The German government has warned against anti-migrant scapegoating.

Language matters in these cases. My point stands.

[oberliner]

139. These men were moving around, traveling in groups, and behaving like animals

It seems to me that "roving packs" is an apt description of these particular men.

What is it about that choice of phrasing that you find objectionable?

[BeyondGeography]

141. You're just a spectator, you can say whatever you want

If you're in charge of keeping the peace in a city with social tensions, using language that equates members of a minority group with dogs might not be the way to go for more reasons than I can count.

[oberliner]

146. No language was used equating members of a minority group with dogs

Language was used equating people who commit sexual assault with dogs.

The behavior exhibited by these men as described by eye-witness and several of the victims of the sexual assaults is behavior that is animalistic in nature and should correctly be identified as such.

[philosslayer]

144. "Roving Packs"

Is exactly the type of inflammatory language we should be trying to avoid. I don't doubt that something took place, but I've seen no video to corroborate it.

[6chars]

145. Let's just say they are good people who did a bad thing

[oberliner]

147. You need video to corroborate these claims?

Are you for real?

[leftynyc]

149. Perhaps

you'd feel better if these women had at least 4 witnesses to their assault? There was no video corroborating Treyvon Martin being murdered either - I still think Zimmerman is a disgusting murderer.

[coyote]

163. Here is a 1st witness account:

https://m.

[Ash_F]

165. 90 complaints? 1000 attackers? Consider the numbers bellow.

That is an average of at least 11 people per incident. Any cell phone footage of this huge mob?


How many were pickpocketings and how many were groping attacks? There is a big difference in the severity of the two crimes so there needs to be parsing of that number.


I do not have statistics on Cologne specifically, but considering Germany's rape rate, the city would have about 90 per year.(9 per 100,000 x 1 million people in Cologne). There was a 25% chance that a rape would be reported on New Year's Eve. (90 rapes/365 days)

https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=17094
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Germany#cite_note-8

A few years ago there was story about rape by Middle Eastern immigrants in Norway which blew up before getting discredited after researchers found that native White Norwegians were statistically more likely to be perpetrators on a per capita basis.

I would be interested in knowing more about the originator of the narrative of this story.

[mwrguy]

170. "You rape our women and you’re taking over our country."

That sounds familiar.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/18/white-female-sexuality-and-racist-violence-a-history_n_7613048.html

[romanic]

180. So German white women

and their whiteness cause those men to rape them? Okie-dokie.

But being for real, unless the roving gang was filled with Dylann Roofs I don't see how this even relates to what happened in Germany.

[mwrguy]

181. Of course not, but that's pretty much what I'm seeing from Islamophobes

It's the same rhetoric as Roof's.

[FrodosPet]

182. Islamophobes or not, the fact remains that a large group of penis owners ruthlessly attacked women

I could care less if they worship Arabian monoliths or a lower case letter "t" or airborne pasta, they need to be identified, they need to be removed from free society, and their motivations need to be studied.

The German government and media covering this up has done a LOT more damage than being honest from day 1. See "Nixon, Richard Milhous".