Group calls for fraud investigation into Jane Sanders' land deals
Source: WCAX
BURLINGTON, Vt. - A group of Catholic parishioners want the U.S. Attorney for Vermont to investigate Jane Sanders, the wife of Bernie Sanders, for alleged bank fraud stemming from a land deal she secured as President of Burlington College.
"It appears that Ms. Sanders misrepresented confirmed donations in order to get that loan," said Brady Toensing, an attorney and Vice Chair of the Vermont Republic Party.
Toensing is representing a group of Catholic parishioners. He alleges Jane Sanders cost the Diocese between $1.6 and $2 million dollars in 2010 and 2011. He says she misrepresented the amount of money Burlington college could raise to support a land purchase from the Catholic Church. A loan from People's United Bank was contingent upon Sanders and the college coming up with more than $2 million dollars. "The bank understood it as confirmed donations," Toensing said.
The documents sent to U.S. Attorney Eric Miller suggest Sanders never secured the donations she told the bank she already had.
Read more: http://www.wcax.com/story/30935632/group-calls-for-fraud-investigation-into-jane-sanders-land-deals
This has been discussed before on DU:
September 13, 2015 by Morgan True
Former Burlington College president Jane Sanders overstated donation amounts in a bank application for a $6.7 million loan that was used by the college to purchase a prime 33-acre property on Lake Champlain in 2010.
Sanders told Peoples United Bank that the college had $2.6 million in pledged donations to support the purchase of the former Roman Catholic Diocese of Burlington property on North Avenue. The college, however, received only $676,000 in actual donations from 2010 through 2014, according to figures provided by Burlington College.
Thats far less than the $5 million Sanders listed as likely pledges in the loan agreement, and less than a third of the $2.14 million Sanders had promised Peoples Bank the college would collect in cash during the four-year period.
<...>
Two people whose pledges are listed as confirmed in the loan agreement told VTDigger that their personal financial records show their pledges were overstated. Neither were aware that the pledges were used to secure the loan.
<...>
Peoples United Bank stipulated that at the time of the closing in December 2010, the school would provide a report as part of the loan agreement detailing fundraising collections, commitments and grants equal to $2,270,000 and information that would satisfy the bank that pledges were valid and enforceable commitments of the respective donors and granting parties.
Read more:
http://vtdigger.org/2015/09/13/jane-sanders-overstated-donation-amounts-in-loan-application-for-burlington-college/
DFW
(54,057 posts)The flip side of Hillary's emails?
MeNMyVolt
(1,095 posts)A way to get us to F ourselves.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)OMG...
Dustlawyer
(10,493 posts)Sarcasm
840high
(17,196 posts)trillion
(1,859 posts)Actually, no i doubt anything will come of it. Hillary actually has dirt all over her and blood on her hands - Iraq war.
Blue_Adept
(6,384 posts):victim:
handmade34
(22,755 posts)somewhat of an issue in Vermont for some time... Bernie in the spotlight just makes it a National issue... we'll see where it goes??
Metric System
(6,048 posts)rummaged through over the years. We don't know what Sanders surprises await.
handmade34
(22,755 posts)there will not be much baggage... most people in Vermont know about Bernie (my late husband told stories of parties at his house in the Northeast Kingdom... ahh, the days when the flatlander hippies ruled!)
This is more than just baggage. Specific dates, amounts, people, documents, acts, etc. Bernie should have put a lid on it long ago by explaining it, and not letting it fester. I guess Wall Street transparency starts at home.
handmade34
(22,755 posts)Bernie's baggage... not his family's ...and hey, I'm neutral in this... I adore Bernie but I am working for Hillary in the primaries (and will vote for any Democrat that wins)
this is pretty good article about Jane Sanders
http://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/jane-says-sanders-secret-weapon-or-a-political-liability/Content?oid=2670992
George II
(67,782 posts)....of 320 million people. Welcome to the big time, Senator Sanders.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)has been rummaged through pretty thoroughly.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)If Bernie becomes the nominee, he will get the same treatment the Clintons and the Obamas got.
People shouldn't fool themselves into thinking he'll somehow be exempt.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)of mole hills. This is called SwiftBoating and it's exactly what we are fighting. We need a change from the corruption of the existing system that is funded by the wealthy 1%.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I guess we will see about that over the next several long months. I'm already remembering things I had forgotten.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)blood of a million innocent Iraqis dripping from her scheming hands.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)How far back does this go?
handmade34
(22,755 posts)this is the earliest I remember... surprised it has taken this long to make national news
http://vtdigger.org/2011/09/27/jane-sanders-resigns-presidency-of-burlington-college-reaches-settlement/
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I read this earlier today.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)property is an interesting one.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Forget the facts. They never matter in a scandal.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)The national media has barely gotten started on Jane Sanders and Burlington College.
valerief
(53,235 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)except on a grander scale.
The Sanders won't be exempt from the GOP mudslinging.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)joshcryer
(62,265 posts)joshcryer
(62,265 posts)Whitewater was just a typical fishing expedition by the Republicans.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)just like they used Whitewater against Bill.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)It does surprise me this has been talked about locally. When I have computer access I'll look in to it. If it's played out on the local level then it's nothing.
valerief
(53,235 posts)the person guilty.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)And not a blank-gate type of name. I'm sure they are thinking of something.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)And couldn't back out when financing fell through?
Somehow I don't believe this story at all. And why, oh why, is it only being investigated now?
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)How would the Church know that pledges Burlington College reported weren't real?
One of the pledges actually turned out to be a bequest -- not to be paid out in the next six years, but only upon the person's death (at some unknown date in the future).
http://vtdigger.org/2015/09/13/jane-sanders-overstated-donation-amounts-in-loan-application-for-burlington-college/
Two people whose pledges are listed as confirmed in the loan agreement told VTDigger that their personal financial records show their pledges were overstated. Neither were aware that the pledges were used to secure the loan.
Burlington College also cited a $1 million bequest as a pledged donation that would be paid out over six years, even though the money would only be available after the donors death.
Burlington College President Christine Plunkett leave a board of trustees meeting Friday. Photo by Laura Krantz/VTDigger
Burlington College President Christine Plunkett leave a board of trustees meeting just before her resignation in December 2014. File photo by Laura Krantz/VTDigger
Peoples United Bank stipulated that at the time of the closing in December 2010, the school would provide a report as part of the loan agreement detailing fundraising collections, commitments and grants equal to $2,270,000 and information that would satisfy the bank that pledges were valid and enforceable commitments of the respective donors and granting parties.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)©2008 Perlman & Perlman LLP
Legal Issues Related to Unfulfilled Charitable Pledges
In todays challenging economic environment, where large amounts of wealth are
disappearing overnight, the fulfillment of charitable pledges can no longer be taken for
granted. Charities, donors, professional fund raisers and third parties such as banks,
landlords, and suppliers are increasingly asking whether pledged funds will in fact
materialize, and what to do if they do not.
Accord
ing to the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB), charities are required to record enforceable pledges as assets when they are made, just like any other debt obligation. If a pledge is not fulfilled, the charity must write off the unpaid amount of the pledge.
Alternatively, courts will enforce a pledge if the charity has suffered some detriment by taking action in reasonable reliance of the pledge, even though such detriment was not requested as consideration. This legal principle is known as promissory estoppel or detrimental reliance.
Actions that constitute detrimental reliance include soliciting other donors based on the pledge, incurring costs, entering into contracts, or borrowing money based on the expectation that the donors promise will be kept. This principle is currently the law in roughly 30 states.
There are certain defenses that can be raised to avoid enforcement of oral agreements,
including if the agreement is not one that is capable of being performed within one year from the time of the agreement. This defense against enforcement is called a statute of frauds defense. However, a party may be barred from raising the statute of frauds as a defense if the charity has relied on the promise to its detriment or the donor has performed part of the agreement (i.e., made payments).
http://www.perlmanandperlman.com/publications/articles/2008/LegalIssuesRelatedtoUnfulfilledCharitablePledges.pdf
But if it fits your case of trying to prosecute Sander's wife, then I totally understand.
Again, why wait till now to investigate this?
I'll try to fix the text (it was a PDF file) when I come back. Gotta go feed goats.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)It's been an issue confined to VT till recently, but if he's the nominee the Rethugs will certainly use it in the general.
Whitewater was never an issue till Bill Clinton ran for President.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)OK...I get it. You guys will go after anything. If it was news back in 2010, when it supposedly happened, but nothing happened, I guess we need to try to make it news again now.
Really loved this part:
According to Jonna Spilbor, an attorney who reviewed the documents for TheDCNF", the college APPEARS to have committed a pretty sophisticated crime by exaggerating donor commitments in order to secure financing for the deal.
* DCNF is The Daily Caller News Foundation.
What? Their own attorney determined says they "appear" to have committed sophisticated crime?
Sorry guys. You are going to have to do a lot better than this. Oh my sides hurt.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)So do you think she's part of some deep conspiracy? An undercover Hillary agent, maybe?
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)She posted the same story I just referenced...that Bernie was hinting at running, so the daily caller came out with this phony fraud opinion piece by Tucker Carlson, with nothing to back it up.
Do you always base your beliefs on conservative rags and the nasty stuff they post?
I guess it if is against Sanders, you don't care?
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I've read a number of their stories. They are mostly just opinion and no identifying sources of people who are claiming fraud. If there were fraud involved, this would have already been investigated and taken to court.
Sorry...you are really trying too hard. Be careful. You might break something.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Notice, I did NOT say HILLARY, I said her campaign.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Here's a 2014 news article about it: http://www.wcax.com/story/26284478/burlington-college-president-responds-to-critics
And here's a recent one from the Cahtolic Church bishopric in question denying that it's a big problem notwithstanding the financial loss they suffered: http://digital.vpr.net/post/catholic-church-rejects-claim-sanders-wife-caused-financial-harm#stream/0
That the church was the counterparty in this transaction is largely irrelevant, as it would have no bearing on Dr. Sanders' fiduciary responsibilities as President of the Burlington College. Of course the timing of this move is blatantly political, but her tenure as head of the small college was quite controversial going back to at least 2008, and it seems like she resigned in 2011 as an alternative to being forced out. I'm not surprised that the GOP would seek to make an issue out of her tenure there.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)they mention an audit, not an investigation.
Nor is their any insinuation of fraud by Sanders. That story says they had financial difficulties that they are dealing with, but no mention of fraud. Only of one donation that turned out to be a bequest (unbeknownst to them at the time they were citing it for the loan).
And from the second link:
The vice-chairman of the Vermont Republican Party says Bernie Sanders wife has exacted a severe financial toll on the Roman Catholic Diocese of Burlington. But the bishop who oversees the Catholic Church in Vermont says the accusation is without merit.
Both those links pretty much absolve Sanders of any intent of fraud.
I'm sure that was your intent in posting those stories (thank you). I hope some of the accusers here read them. It looks like the Hillary supporters and the Republicans are working in lock-step on this.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Misclassifying a bequest as a donation isn't necessarily fraud, but it is almost certainly negligent and I would not conclude from those two articles that she was absolved of it. People with fiduciary responsibilities are subject to different legal standards of responsibility from individuals acting on their own behalf. Learn a bit more about what being a fiduciary means here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fiduciary_duty
Now having said that, I don't see how the GOP hack who filed the suit has any standing to sue and nor do I see any evidence that the parties to the transaction intend legal action against her, so the chances she ends up on trial for this seem pretty low.
I'm a Hillary supporter you know. Suggesting that the Clinton campaign is in cahoots with the GOP on this is just the sort of unsubstantiated allegation you yourself are complaining about. Reality is that any credible political candidate for high office will see their past examined under a microscope, and it only took me 10 minutes to find multiple potential controversies related to Dr. Sanders' tenure as President of Burlington. You can bet the GOP is working a lot harder for dirt than I am and won't have any reservations about flinging it about as long as Sanders' run continues. So my advice is don't take it seriously, but all the same, get used to it.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Suggesting that the Clinton campaign is in cahoots with the GOP on this is just the sort of unsubstantiated allegation you yourself are complaining about
I should have said some and some of them are right here in this thread. (not you). And working in cahoots, does not necessarily mean coordinating efforts, but feeding off each others efforts. The people pushing this by posting from conservative hack sites and passing it off as true, are the ones I'm talking about.
Sorry about that. I'm usually more careful about the broadbrush thing.
From your first link, the news agency said they were able to obtain an audit, but who requested the audit? If this was a legal investigation, who is behind it. That's what I've been looking for, and can't find.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Later in the article is says:
This is the audit they were referring to. It was not an investigation of wrong doing, but an audit of the financial standing of the college and being allowed to remain in the association of schools and colleges.
I still see no indication of any kind of legal audit concerning the issue of the land purchase.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)I was thinking of the media investigation of the story and did not pick up on the context you meant the first time you read it. I certainly do not think there is any likelihood of Jane Sanders being charged with fraud, sorry if I gave the opposite impression.
I don't see this as being a very serious problem for the Sanders campaign, I just expect that it will stick around like a bad smell while he is running because it makes for good political theater. If Jane Sanders were a candidate herself I'd regard it as much more serious but since that's not the case it's merely embarrassing rather than something anyone should change their vote over.
Kingofalldems
(38,361 posts)Right winger with a permanent sneer on her face. Wife of filthy repub DiGenova of Fox news.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)They shouldn't pretend only the Clintons would be subject to mudslinging.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Don't get your hopes up too high. I'd hate to see you suffer from a big downer when Bernie wins.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)will be grossly disappointed.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I said he will probably shake it off like Obama did.
And then he'll win the general!
DURHAM D
(32,596 posts)I despise her.
emulatorloo
(43,982 posts)asjr
(10,479 posts)I never watch Fox news so I had forgotten them. To me it is as if they just crawled out of their cave.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)That was the first thing that came to my mind.
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)Brady is her son from her first marriage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Toensing
Metric System
(6,048 posts)to Sanders jurors.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)What rules did the story violate?
Although I have seen many hides that didnt violate anything but someones sensitive feelings. I've had one myself some time back.
paleotn
(17,781 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)This is just the beginning if he wins the primaries.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)In hindsight a problem like this is an orphan, and there are lots of people who want to lay it at the feet of a specific person, Leopold said.[/b[
Leopold emphasized that other members of the administration were also responsible for the capital campaigns failure and a weak economy was also a factor.
He offered no concrete reason for Sanders being asked to resign, saying only that personally he felt it was time for a change.
http://vtdigger.org/2015/09/13/jane-sanders-overstated-donation-amounts-in-loan-application-for-burlington-college/
It doesn't appear that the bank suffered a loss on the deal, if someone knows different, please post. Also if the church was damaged by it.
handmade34
(22,755 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Whoever knowingly executes, or attempts to execute, a scheme or artifice
(1) to defraud a financial institution; or
(2) to obtain any of the moneys, funds, credits, assets, securities, or other property owned by, or under the custody or control of, a financial institution, by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises;
shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1344
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)In the case of Burlington College, it appears that Sanders overstated the pledges in the loan document, and misstated the nature of the $1 million bequest. Whether Sanders made misstatements intentionally or out of ignorance or negligence is unknown. VTDigger was unable to interview Sanders or Plunkett, and additional records were not available.
Secondly, prosecutors would need to show that the fraud was material, meaning that it could have impacted the plaintiffs decision (in a case against Sanders or Burlington College, the plaintiff would be Peoples United Bank). A showing of materiality doesnt rely on whether the fraud did influence a plaintiffs decision, only that it could have, Waples said.
The overstated pledges VTDigger has identified total less than $35,000, and would be unlikely to be considered material. However, close to $620,000 in confirmed pledges were never realized and are no longer being sought by the college, which means other pledges could have been overstated as well.
Peoples United Bank is unlikely to pursue a civil action against Burlington College. Thats because, following the land deal with Farrell for $7.56 million, the schools debt is greatly reduced and its in a better position to pay back the loan. A second deal to sell a former orphanage building on the North Avenue property to Farrell for $2 million will further improve the schools financial position. That deal is expected to close in October.
If Burlington College were to have defaulted on the loan, the North Avenue property would have provided valuable collateral the City of Burlington assessed it at $20 million.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)that was actually a $1 million bequest, to be paid out only at the unknown date of the donor's future death.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)here goes.
He made it very clear he was juggling the estate business, Luck said.
Luck was making regular reports to Sanders and other school officials about his progress on the fundraising campaign. Luck is a veteran of dozens of capital campaigns, he said. Hes also a principal at the fundraising consultancy Maple Leaf Management Group in Underhill. Its typical to request of donors a signed letter for a formal pledge that includes the amount and over how many years it would be paid, he said.
Luck doesnt recall ever soliciting such a letter for $60,000 from Leavitt, though he said he cant be sure. Luck said he left files on the donors he worked with at the college. Current school officials said they had no such records.
Luck said he did not realize Leavitt was listed as a $60,000 confirmed contribution on the loan document. While he may have given Sanders a hopeful impression about the second $30,000, he does not recall telling her it was a signed and sealed pledge.
Former trustee Rob Michalak is a Burlington College alumni who now works at Ben & Jerrys. Michalak is listed on the loan document as a $5,000 confirmed pledge. He recalls being asked to contribute to the schools capital campaign along with other faculty and trustees.
However, he doesnt recall pledging at the $5,000 level. After reviewing his own financial records, Michalak confirmed he did make a pledge and donation, but not for $5,000. He did not wish to share the actual amount of his contribution.
Seems to me the guy she hired to fund raise needs to be looked at.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)pledge should have been very carefully vetted. Her name went on the loan document.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Then you see that there is no there there.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Nor does it discuss the fact that Jane, as the President of the college, was responsible for the accuracy of the documents she signed.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)wrote a story about Sander's leaving the college in 2010. Here is part of that story.
Until recently, Sanders, wife of U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders, hoped to continue as president for another four years. But negotiations over a new contract stalled as doubts emerged about her plans and fundraising. In August, the board voted to negotiate an early exit package.
Last week, after a VTDigger.org story described the challenges facing the school, the agenda for a special Board of Trustees meeting, held at the Sheraton Hotel on Monday, was leaked. The agenda revealed that the trustees would be discussing the removal of the president. Lawyers for Sanders and the college have since reached a settlement that includes her resignation effective in three weeks, the title of President Emeritus and a year-long-paid sabbatical.
Purchase of the 200-student colleges new campus has created opportunities to significantly grow the student body and fully realize the expansion of academic programs, according to the announcement of Sanders departure. But her goal of doubling enrollment before the end of the decade could be tough to achieve, and millions of dollars more need to be raised to complete the new campus renovations.
http://vtdigger.org/2011/09/27/jane-sanders-resigns-presidency-of-burlington-college-reaches-settlement/
Note, nothing mentioned about fraud. Nothing mentioned about money issues with the purchase of the property. Only money issues regarding completion of the new campus renovations.
It does talk about personality issues between her and staff, and I don't doubt that may be true...but nothing touching the purchase of the property. So again...why now?
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Sanders told Peoples United Bank that the college had $2.6 million in pledged donations to support the purchase of the former Roman Catholic Diocese of Burlington property on North Avenue. The college, however, received only $676,000 in actual donations from 2010 through 2014, according to figures provided by Burlington College.
That is NOT fraud.
Pledges and actual donations are not always the same. Pledges are not always fullfilled.
They also say that two people who pledged say their pledge amounts were overstated (but offer no proof or even identification of said donors), and one was only supposed to happen after the donors death...so where is this fraud case? If these facts are true, the church should have sued the college.
But the only sources of this story are from conservative rags like Daily caller.
Sorry folks...there is no story here.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)Hillary supporters quoting RW hacks like Brady Toensing in the morning. It smells like victory.
Apologies to Francis Ford Coppola
paleotn
(17,781 posts)Bernin
(311 posts)Those internal poll numbers must be devastating.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)in Camp Coronation! It smells like rotting strategy and fuming frustration. Quick! Pass out the clothespins!
blackspade
(10,056 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)will be used against Bernie, if he becomes the nominee.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)not to vote for her; without accounting for the fact that Bernie and Jane will be subject to exactly the same sorts of attacks -- though they will be unfamiliar to a national audience, and therefore more interesting.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Anyone with half a brain knows that.
My point was that DU shouldn't be funneling this RW bullshit....especially Clinton supporters given Whitewater, Benghazi, e-mails, etc....
Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)I'm sure Hilary's folks had NOTHING to do with it....
840high
(17,196 posts)RandySF
(57,661 posts)And Bernie is a hypocrite for speaking out against golden parachutes after his wig took a $200k severance.
snoringvoter
(178 posts)That's just the fee for a Clinton speech, minus the airfare and the required deposits.
RandySF
(57,661 posts)Nice try.
snoringvoter
(178 posts)I've read the articles.
marble falls
(56,367 posts)anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)She expanded it considerably during her tenure but also ran up a large amount of debt in the process. The numbers are quite low but contemporary news reports (ie long before the Sanders presidential campaign) sound as if a lot of people thought she was feathering her next. Perhaps this is why she was so unpopular there by the time of her departure. That said, sometimes the best path to financial viability is through growth (in this case investment in land and buildings for a permanent campus) and that is not always appreciated by people who are ignorant of economics. I don't know enough from news reports to judge the quality of her job performance, but she was at loggerheads with others at the college the first time Hillary was running for President back in 2008 so I am not surprised that the GOP would try to make some political hay out of it.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Her income at the college was 150K, and they settled with her (for being forced out) for a year's pay and I guess 50k on top of that. Doesn't really sound that extreme to me. As a matter of fact, that's pretty low for what most CEO's get for a golden parachute when they leave a company, even if they cause the company to go bankrupt, or have major losses.
This is from a story on 5 CEO's getting golden parachutes...
Each of these CEOs get $150 million or more from these plans - often nicknamed "golden parachutes" - since they're not a bad way for a CEO to go. The data are based on estimates the companies provide to investors on what the CEOs would earn as part of a change of control event as of the end of their most recent fiscal years.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2015/12/07/ceo-severance-change-control/76910386/
Any some of you Hill supporters are bitching about 200K for a golden parachute for a college president?
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)If we're doing open warfare, let's fucking do this thing. You bring everything you've got against Sanders and his wife. We'll bring Clinton scandal after Clinton scandal after Clinton scandal. No motherfucking prisoners. Bring it.
lexington filly
(239 posts)So the vice chair of the Vermont Republican Party is the attorney for "Catholic parishioners....." Or are they just Republicans first and parishioners by the by. Hmmm....
Let's say, yes it's fraud, for discussion's sake.
But then we're left with two candidates whose spouses have been or are involved in fraudulent behavior. One while president of a college and one while The President. Where does that leave us---weighing the act's of each and the harm?
Yes, but we also have one of the candidates being investigated to see if her public State office was used to enrich her private Foundation.
Yes I'm a staunch Democrat and will vote for Hillary or Bernie but the choice doesn't become easier to make as the primary season goes on.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)A "pledge" is not money in hand. I hope this group pays off the mortgage early to save some interest to the bank.