Where was the FBI during the armed standoff in Oregon? Out of sight, but listening and icle title

[jpak]

Source: Los Angeles Times

As the armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon dragged on for most of January, local law enforcement was spread thin and federal agents were nowhere to be seen.

Behind the quiet facade, however, the FBI was running surveillance on the occupation and recording the activists’ public statements, mostly drawn from media reports and the activists' use of social media, while FBI agents encouraged locals to report their experiences with the new strangers in town.

According to the allegations in an indictment and supporting affidavit, the FBI was collecting information that confirmed the occupiers were armed, angry and willing to die.

The court documents detail how a source told a Harney County sheriff’s officer that the protesters “had explosives, night vision goggles, and weapons and that if they didn't get the fight they wanted out there they would bring the fight to town.” The documents show that authorities grew concerned as the occupiers used increasingly heated rhetoric when discussing their plans and the occupation.

<more>

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-oregon-refuge-fbi-20160127-story.html

[peacebird]

1. Feds moved in when they knew all the leaders would be in two cars on a quiet stretch of road

Pretty good plan actually. The decapitated the occupation at that point.

[getagrip_already]

2. I thought from the start...

They would be using their fancy-pants cell tower technology (Stingray) to listen in on and possibly block any communications.

Sure, the nuts could have tried encryption, but those calls can mysteriously not connect. Wierd how that can happen......

So from the start I expected them to kill power, and stop traffic from entering, while at the same time cutting off their ability to live stream and post to social media.

The generators would eventually run out of fuel, the car batteries would die, and they would be very cold and lonely (unless of course they wanted to talk to the fbi).

[enough]

3. Looks like Pete Santilli has been pretty useful.

snip from the article>

A significant amount of the FBI’s information used to charge Ammon Bundy came from an activist named Pete Santilli, who was living inside the refuge and broadcasting live his conversations with fellow activists.

To demonstrate a conspiracy, the government has a lower burden than it would with similar charges, such as aiding and abetting, or solicitation. A conspiracy charge in federal court does not require the underlying offense to have taken place, so prosecutors can charge the defendants based on their statements, without proving they actually committed a crime.

That is where Santilli’s broadcasts proved so useful to the FBI.

snip>

[padfun]

4. How sweet.

The FBI let Santilli dig the traitors grave. I'm sure they will love him in prison.

[central scrutinizer]

10. the charges should multiply once they secure the refuge

and find out how much damage was done to government property, theft of artifacts, accessing personnel records on government computers, etc.

[Snarkoleptic]

5. After the place is cleared out, I would love to see those responsible

pay for damage done to the building and grounds as well as costs incurred by the community.
Bundy cattle, here we come!

[navarth]

7. +1

[Hoppy]

13. At least one of them can't pay back for the damages. He was complaining the gub'mint cut off his

unemployment.

[navarth]

6. is 'icle title' a typo?

or did I miss something?

[SoapBox]

8. My thought too!

icle?

Icicle?

Popsicle?

?

[navarth]

9. In any event,

I'm glad the yeehawdists are getting theirs. Buncha fucking dicks.

[christx30]

22. Once the power gets cut off

and their generators run out of gas, it's going to be cold there. Probably one of the best typos in a while.
I really hope the local police/FBI is now stopping package delivery. Need to stop donations from coming in.

[pamela]

23. I figured it out!

It was driving me crazy. The O.P. must have accidentally copied and pasted part of the words "article title." Icle title is article title without the "art."

[central scrutinizer]

11. I heard the guy who invented auto correct died recently

I didn't even know he was I'll.

[thesquanderer]

12. thanks for the laugh! (n/t)

[navarth]

17. that is excellent.

I didn't capitalize my T because me lazy.

[Babel_17]

15. The LA Times has what I think was supposed to be the title

"Where was the FBI during the armed standoff in Oregon? Out of sight, but listening and watching"

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-oregon-refuge-fbi-20160127-story.html

[Aldo Leopold]

16. Probably the end of "article title" that somehow got pasted into the post title

[Babel_17]

19. Huh, that's got to be it, thanks

Makes perfect sense.

[Babel_17]

14. Interesting, but I still think they should have "read them the riot act", ...

... as the saying goes. That should have happened, repeatedly, and from the beginning. We knew who they were, and what they represented. Federal law enforcement should have loudly explained the penalties they were risking. They should have also offered the carrot of being willing to use their discretion if the nonsense ended immediately. As things stand some are going to use the defense that they thought they had a tacit understanding that law enforcement saw them as peaceful protesters, and not actually committing the kinds of crimes that would have been spelled out to them. IANAL but listing the statutes being broken would have helped make the prosecutor's case easier for the more basic charges. And that would have smoothed the path for the more serious charges.

And now the bar is raised, and every bunch of wackos will want this level of deference, and "if they don't get it, it's discrimination, and because this time the government is really scared of their righteous cause, and they're martyrs" (as I imagine their claims going).

There's discretion, and then there's the rule of law. People don't want to see the rule of law go down the tubes just so those enforcing it get to look clever.

And somebody did get his wacko ass killed, so the "nip it in the bud" side has that going for it.

But I'll be impressed, and adjust my weighing of things, if the government goes after all the shitbirds on conspiracy and/or other charges. And with "all" I include the shitbirds from the standoff at the Bundy ranch. Because that helped enable what happened in this new instance of armed insurrection.

If all of this was just so the government could rack up a non-controversial win, one that doesn't upset the anti-government gun-humpers, I'll be very unimpressed.

P.S. There's something to be said for the government having an obligation to not give people too much rope to hang themselves with. Not that I think the government wasn't smart to listen in, and so on. But I think we'll be hearing more about that defense at the trials. And that goes back to why I said the riot act should have been read to them.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/read+the+riot+act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_Act#.22Read_the_Riot_Act.22

To this day many jurisdictions that have inherited the tradition of English common law and Scots law still employ statutes that require police or other executive agents to deliver an oral warning, much like the Riot Act, before an unlawful public assembly may be forcibly dispersed.

Because the authorities were required to read the proclamation that referred to the Riot Act before they could enforce it, the expression "to read the Riot Act" entered into common language as a phrase meaning "to reprimand severely." with the added sense of a stern warning. The phrase remains in common use in the English language.

[unc70]

21. We did not know who they all were

Not just all of those in and around the compound, but also some others they were in contact with by telephone, email, etc. There could be quite a few of the latter who can be charged with conspiracy. That would be a major blow to their movement around the country. Even if the evidence were not enough to indict and convict, it most likely would be enough to establish probable cause for search warrants, wiretaps, etc. We shall see.

[Babel_17]

24. I agree there's a lot that's unknown

It starts getting iffy when you let idiots go about unhindered, breaking the law, and thinking up further ways to break the law while they draw in other people. IANAL but we had some really tiresome instances of that wherein the FBI would monitor supposedly revolutionary left wing groups.

The defenses those groups sometimes used to good effect could be brought up again. Lol, I'm a retired construction worker, so my legal opinion is worth about what you'd expect. But I have read lots of stories and articles that touched on these issues. There's a real interesting symbiosis between the FBI and radical groups that goes back ... forever.

But if the FBI actually learned about who the more credible leaders are then I'm OK with small potato jackasses walking free. Though it's a shame that somebody died. If it turns out that the FBI got real intelligence about people who are "the real deal" in regards using terrorism against the government, then who am I to point fingers. Because in that case it was good practice to let things play out a bit.

But caveat emptor, that's not the same as saying that the government happening to gets lucky justifies allowing things to get crazy among the wannabe tribe. The government has seemed to earned the benefit of the doubt in this case, so I'm ready to applaud them when they announce what's what.

My comments from the peanut gallery are just that. "We shall see". Indeed!

[unc70]

26. Hope FBI, et al avoided the slippery slope

Having been an insignificant, peaceful participant in the civil rights and anti war movements in the 60s, I saw first hand the abuses of surveillance by civilian and military authorities. We became pretty good at spotting who did not belong on or near campus. (e.g. Their shoes were often wrong. The Vietnam Vets could tell if someone was lying about military service.)

I think in this case, the authorities had so much cause with a very volatile situation that their actions should have easily conformed to high standards without using the Patriot Act. When those at the refuge are calling for their buddies to attack law enforcement and other targets, and then some buddies then show up heavily armed, you are dealing with a real and immediate threat.

I know we were perceived by many as threats back in the 60s, so I am not naive about LE abuses. But so far, this looks to have been handled responsibly.

An interesting aspect would be protecting any informant within the Bundy group.

[Babel_17]

29. Ah, I see. I was alluding to some of that stuff though I know very little of it first hand

By the time I went to college a bit the FBI was pretty desultory about photographing the Marxists. Lol, it was thought the guy doing it was a Marxist plant to drum up excitement. (they were an unexciting bunch)

I can't really add to your great post, I'll just say that I have a lot of reasons for wanting the law to be applied in a consistent manner. Though naturally "less is more" when it comes to making arrests. Arrests should be fewer and less arbitrary.

I've been reading some exciting speculation about the informer(s) angle. Wow, heads are going to explode if there's much truth to any of that speculation.

A paranoid group like that, now worried about infiltrators? Lol, "Hmm, who here looks a little bit off?".

I'm guessing that many have pressing bills, and quite a few could be bought, if the offer was made with finesse.

[The Stranger]

18. The armed standoff hasn't ended.

Did the LA Times miss that part?

[starroute]

20. I hate the misuse of words like protesters, activists, and occupiers

You just know those associations are going to be used to tar peaceful demonstrators on the left.

[hollowdweller]

25. I wonder if they will round up the rest of the Bundy Ranch people now that they are on it.

[L. Coyote]

27. US v. Bundy Complaint and Affidavit Jan 27, 2016 - Interesting reading.

Love seeing the degree to which the complaint is based on their social media and streaming. They are self-convicting criminals.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/296875147/US v. Bundy Complaint and Affidavit
Jan 27, 2016

Download as PDF, TXT
Description
This is the preliminary set of charges against the lead Malheur Wildlife Refuge occupiers. The charges may change once the government secures a grand jury indictment.

[center]



Sorry #BundyBunch, as the world turns its attention to the next car wreak, Y'allQaeda rode into its sunset.

Dave Blanchard ?@blanchardd
Sun setting over Harney County after peaceful day in Burns. Residents still on edge. #Oregonstandoff


Beth Nakamura ?@bethnakamura
Also FYI Harney County remains beautiful as ever #Oregonstandoff #oregon


US v. Bundy Complaint and Affidavit Jan 27, 2016 - Interesting reading.

[friendly_iconoclast]

28. The occupiers just got a harsh lesson about the meaning of the phrase "felony motormouth"...