BREAKING: FBI shows video of fatal traffic-stop shooting of armed occupier in Oregon

[Hissyspit]

Source: Associated Press

@AP: BREAKING: FBI shows video of fatal traffic-stop shooting of armed occupier of Oregon wildlife refuge.

@AP: Video of Ore. refuge protester's shooting shows truck speeding toward roadblock, man appears to reach in pocket: https://t.co/61k1r1c0PD/s/xQNp

FBI releases video of Oregon shooting

JAN. 28, 2016 9:23 PM EST

BURNS, Ore. (AP) — The latest on an armed group that took over buildings at a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon (all times local):

6:10 p.m.

The FBI has released video of the fatal traffic stop shooting of an armed occupier of a national wildlife refuge in Oregon.

The aerial video was shown at a news conference Thursday evening. Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, an Arizona rancher, was shot and killed by police Tuesday during the arrest of most of the armed group's leaders on a highway north of the refuge.

The video shows a truck speeding toward a roadblock and hitting a snow bank. Greg Bretzing, special agent in charge for the FBI in Oregon, narrated the video and said that Finicum then got out of the truck.

The video appears to show the individual that got out of the truck reaching into his pocket. Bretzing said Finicum had a loaded handgun in his pocket and he "on at least two occasions" reached his right hand toward the pocket inside his jacket.

The video then shows the man being shot by officers.

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/11a2f41224c640ea88044853d3374911/latest-oregon-holdouts-willing-leave-if-no-arrests

[cannabis_flower]

1. No source?

[Hissyspit]

2. Associated Press on Twitter

I'll put a link in when I find one

[brush]

7. The LEOs stopped the car, then they floored it to get away and crashed at the roadblock

The LaVoy guy, the driver who decide to flee, got out with his hands up then reached into his jacket, then and only then was he shot.

Idiots playing cowboy heroes.

[uppityperson]

3. Here are the vids on DU. Oregonian gave notice tweeting during press conference.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017325016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017325015

[trillion]

35. Thanks for the link to the videos.

I'm not sure the guy is reaching for a gun. On first watch it looked to me he was shot and reached for the bullet hole and the 2nd shooter shot him again and he turns and falls down. It could be either way from what I saw. Is he reaching for a gun or has he been shot first and reaching for the hole? Can't tell.

[uppityperson]

41. Eventually they'll release info from his autopsy. People will in the meantime see what they want

to see. It's unclear, but it's good they released this.

[trillion]

49. Agreed.

Out running the cops, nearly hitting one. I don't pretend to know what goes though these yahoos minds. I think they all want death by cop or wouldn't have shown up at the refuge.

[madokie]

53. I say you live by the sword

you die by the sword

I'm just happy that if there was to be a death that it would be one of the occupiers, ie Terrorist rather than someone totally innocent or one of the LEO's

for the most part our LEO's do a good job. sure there are those that haven't and they should be weeded out early in their career before they get to the point where they can be murderers, rapist or whatever they're liable to do.

the few times I've had occasion to contact cops I've treated them with respect and let them know right off I'm not a threat to them. Like this one cop said to me as I was servicing his cop car when I worked at a full service station while I was in high school. You never know what that person who just pulled you over just went though. His last contact might have tried to kill him, kicked him in the nuts or his wife might have just asked for a divorce that morning so best to be cordial and things will go better for all involved. I've never forgotten those words and its possibly helped to keep me out of trouble all these years. Who knows for sure though.

I've definitely been cut some slack due to my not being an asshole.

[christx30]

4. Here is a direct youtube link.

I'm at work. Haven't had time to see it yet.
Crash happens around 5:47, shooting soon after.
He exits the truck with hands raised. He turns and lowers his hands to his waist, then falls as he gets shot.

[JimDandy]

6. Basically, at a road block, he goes off the road into a snow bank,

exits the car, puts his hands up, then quickly reaches into a pocket, pulls out something, raises his arm with something in his hand and is shot.

[christx30]

8. Thank you JimDandy.

I was able to see a bit of it. I found the section you're seeing. I agree it looks like he turns and he's reaching for his belt area before he gets shot. I didn't see "charging" at officers. But he did look like he's trying to threaten.

[uppityperson]

22. I think the charging is with the truck, driving it at the officers

[TorchTheWitch]

60. considerig the depth of the snow he seems to be "charging"

as fast as he's able. So, no, I don't think "charging" has anything to do with charging at the roadblock with his vehicle. They're describing the reason he was shot and what he was doing immediately before that... "charging" at the roadblock with his truck didn't have anything to do with his being shot. Had he exited the vehicle once it could go no further with his arms raised up and stayed put following orders there wouldn't have been any legitimate reason to shoot him at that point regardless of the fact that he nearly ran over an officer.

I'm also not seeing his hands so much as raised but his arms out to the side for balance... trying to run through deep snow isn't easy (I've been doing it for days now, and your arms do go out to the sides of their own volition for balance).

I'm inclined to agree with the description in the OP that when he discovered an officer coming toward him from the trees he stopped trying to run, put his arms down and reached for his waist, then reaches for his inside coat pocket just before he was shot. I had to watch it three times though. The FBI did say that there was indeed a gun in one of the areas of his body he was reaching to when he dropped his arms though it's a bit unclear whether the gun was at his waist or under his coat up by his chest.

Keep in mind, there is no audio with this aerial view, so we don't know what was shouted at him and what, if anything, he retorted with.

In any case, he refused to exit his vehicle for some time while he was stopped, and tried to escape by taking off at high speed, veering way over the center line, and only at the last second avoids crashing into the roadblock ahead (that he saw was there in plenty of time) very nearly running over an officer. I think his intention was to attempt to plow his way through the snowbank with enough speed to get back on the road just past the road block and keep going but didn't count on there being that much snow. Since that didn't work, I hate to admit it, but I think he did do a "suicide by cop". Apparently, he fit the profile for that to a "T".

[trillion]

38. If you look at the cop on the right with the gun, it looks like he shot him first. his body movement

is that of someone firing a gun. He looks like he shot the guy twice and the guy put his hands down and reached for his chest after he was shot. Anyway, that's the way it looks to me. I would have to see closer and slow mo to tell what actually happened. I'm against the "occupiers" by the way. I am an indy filmmaker who has shot a whole lot of movies including shoot outs so I tend to look at the whole picture and not focus on a spot.

[Chemisse]

51. It's pretty hard to tell without really careful watching or slow motion.

I would sure as heck hope they waited for him to reach for a gun before they shot, considering all the attention on them and the consequences if they didn't.

[trillion]

62. I think they would be justified even if they didn't wait for him to reach for one.

They know these guys are armed, that bundy trained people in the past to snipe federal agents, that these guys are ready to die for their cause, and that the truck just nearly ran over one of them.

[trillion]

44. Right before he pulls of the road he nearly ran over a guy with his truck.

That should be charging someone and attempted murder.

[Tess49]

18. Why would the date on the video be 1/27 instead of 1/26, the date it happened?

You have to click on the You tube video to see it.

[Kennah]

36. I believe it's in GMT. FBI operates globally. n/t

[Tess49]

55. Thanks. Makes sense. n/t

[yellowcanine]

9. Unedited entire video here

Very long but important to have entire video to shut up the "truthers"
Video clearly shows Finicum had several chances to surrender and chose not to, jumps out of truck with hands raised but quickly reaches for his waistband and only then gets shot. That Victoria woman is either a liar or delusional.
http://koin.com/2016/01/28/fbi-removes-barricades-reopens-highways-around-refuge/

[christx30]

11. I'd say it's a little of both

(lying and delusional). She's focusing on him raising his hands, which he does, and doesn't mention that he was reaching to his waistband. Any cop in any city in the country would shoot at that point. They wouldn't wait until the weapon was in view and pointed at them.

[yellowcanine]

13. She also said over 100 shots were fired INTO the truck.

Actually doesn't look as if any rounds were fired into the truck other than flash grenades and tear gas.

Of course if 100 rounds had been fired into the truck it would have been Bonnie and Clyde deja vu and all of the passengers inside including lying Victoria would have been Swiss cheese.

[christx30]

14. Maybe God IS with them.

Like when that guy shot at Jules and Vincent in Pulp Fiction, and missed. 100 shots entering the car, doing no visible damage and not harming the inhabitants.
Either that, or she is full of crap.

[uppityperson]

10. Here's an Oregonlive link to an article, he had a loaded 9mm semi-auto handgun in that pocket

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/fbi_to_release_video_footage_o.html#incart_maj-story-1

"Bretzing said Finicum had a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun in that pocket."

[elmac]

12. Looks like he nearly hit or did hit an officer with his truck

raised hands, then to waist, raised right hand, then right hand back to waist when he was shot.

[Stryst]

16. my partner and I saw that as well

but it looks like the officer gets up immediately after, so hopefully he wasn't hurt.

[Kennah]

37. The officer probably thought the truck was gonna ram the vehicle n/t

[trillion]

46. Yep, even had he not had a gun, that would have been cause to shoot him when he got out.

[wordpix]

61. Clearly the officers shot in self-defense and Blue Tarp Man was an idiot

It looks like he ran an officer over doing that "come chase me in the snow" routine. Hello, when you drive into a high snowbank, you usually don't just sail through. Idiot got himself shot, just as he wanted.

[Sunlei]

15. He did put hands to his jacket. At least he didn't shoot from the car and get all the people killed

How pitiful it is, how sad to watch someone suicide by cop.

[L. Coyote]

17. Videos of Joint FBI and OSP Operation

Last edited Fri Jan 29, 2016, 12:13 PM - Edit history (1)

Full length version:

Published on Jan 28, 2016
This is the complete video footage of a joint FBI and Oregon State Police traffic stop and OSP officer-involved shooting of Robert "LaVoy" Finicum on the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. This footage, which has only been edited to blur out aircraft information, was taken by the FBI on 01/26/2016 and released by the FBI on 01/28/2016.

REPORTS: Harney District Hospital in Burns is on lockdown - Ammon Bundy is in custody - shots fired

[Bernin]

19. As usual

the FBI is lying.
And, as happened with Waco their own video proves them to be lying.

The man had his hands up and then reaches for his side b/c he was shot. He then spins around only to realize he is in a turkey shoot and he's the turkey.

These guys were idiots for taking over the bird sanctuary. But, shooting a man with his arms in the air is exactly what I expect from the lying coverup agency we call the FBI.

[David L]

20. Looked to me like he drew a gun

And was drawing aim when one cop clipped him and then the other took him down. More than one way to interpret that high altitude video.

[Bernin]

21. I watched several times on a large screen.

He only puts his hands down after he has been shot. What looks like his lower left abdomen. He then tries to put his hands up again and is shot again. Then I'm sure he realized they were out to kill him no matter what and as he is flailing about after being shot at least twice he appears to reach for a weapon.

[David L]

24. I dunno

Looks to me like the first time his hand goes down it's to pull out a weapon. He holds it up ready to shoot but then takes a bullet. What he's doing at that point is unclear (thinking of shooting again, or just in pain...who knows) but the second cop behind him isn't going to mess around he so he hits him again.

[uppityperson]

30. Welcome

[uppityperson]

23. I wondered how long it'd take. Are you going to also deny he had a semi-auto handgun in the pocket

he was reaching into?

[Bernin]

25. Nope.

Just articulating what my lying eyes saw.

I'll also point out the new America policing tactic of escalating the situation by charging head long into a truck that is crashing at 50mph.
So, ya know, to make sure it can be a deadly situation.

[uppityperson]

26. The police escalated this? When? How?

[Bernin]

27. Is your instinct

to hoof it as fast as you can; head on, into an oncoming, out of control vehicle?

[uppityperson]

28. Putting up a barricade is escalating a situation by hoofing it into an out of control vehicle?

Last edited Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:29 AM - Edit history (1)

How, when, did the police escalate anything? Are you saying they should ignore death threats and law breakers?

[Bernin]

29. Did you even watch

the video?

When the truck crashes. One of the agents runs toward it while it is still going very fast. He almost got run over.

[uppityperson]

31. Yes, I saw the guy move in front of their vehicle. Are you saying THAT is "escalation" ?

That an officer moving in front of his vehicle to where he might've gotten run over is what turned this into a deadly situation?

Not tarpman saying repeatedly on tvthat he'd rather die rather than give up? Not his carrying guns? Not that he ran through one barricade already? Not that he tried to drive around this one? Not that he was carrying a semi-auto handgun? Not that he'd been illegally occupying a federal facility? Not that he and his cohorts threatened the lives of locals, the law and their families?

What escalated this info a deadly situation was an officer being where he could've been hurt?

Are you serious?

[Bernin]

32. Yes diving in front of the truck

certainly made this instance a deadly situation.

The overall situation was certainly created by this guy and his cohorts. But, I'm pretty sure they had not committed any capital offenses.
When someone has their hands up. As, he clearly did. You don't get to shoot them.

Do you think it's okay to shoot suspects that have their hands in the air?

[uppityperson]

33. He was clearly reaching for the semi-auto handgun in his pocket which is of course a normal

reaction to missing running over someone, right?

The officer who moved in front of his own vehicle to get out of the way of that vehicle if someone who's already driven through one roadblock decides to drive through yours is...bad? If tarpman had blasted through those vehicles, anyone in front of them would've been hurt or killed. Moving out of the way in no way escalated anything. All the officers there were in danger of tarpman and his cohorts.

Tarpman had plenty of opportunities to give up. He chose to blast through one barricade. Does being in right behind a car tarpman is driving at make any sense? No.

Getting out of the way did.

Does getting out of his way "escalate the situation to deadly"? No.

Threatening many times, carrying a semi-auto handgun while saying you'll die before giving up, blasting through one barricade and driving rapidly toward another does.

[Bernin]

34. So, you're

condoning shooting a suspect. Who, clearly has his hands in the air b/c agent was dumb enough to run AT a crashing truck?

Is that your premise?

[uppityperson]

40. Be careful, you're going to sprain something.

Funny how you never answer or address my points countering your claims, instead just take wild leaps and try to pretend I say things I didn't. Done with you since you obviously don't want a discussion.

[Bernin]

43. I answered all your questions directly.

All the way back to the first one with the word nope.

I'm not pretending anything. You answered none of my questions.

I'm always open to discussing anything with you in the future.

Have a good evening.

[uppityperson]

45. ."The police escalated this? When? How?". No answer.

" Putting up a barricade is escalating a situation by hoofing it into an out of control vehicle?
How, when, did the police escalate anything? Are you saying they should ignore death threats and law breakers?"

" He was clearly reaching for the semi-auto handgun in his pocket which is of course a normal reaction to missing running over someone, right?

The officer who moved in front of his own vehicle to get out of the way of that vehicle if someone who's already driven through one roadblock decides to drive through yours is...bad?"


Etc. Nope, no answers.

On the one hand you are right. If the law just let them do whatever they wanted, the situation wouldn't have escalated to deadly. Perhaps. But tarpman clearly stated he'd due rather than give up. And passed up many chances to simply go home or give up. And letting lawbreakers do whatever they want so it doesn't turn deadly is an idiotic idea.

[trillion]

48. That guy nearly got hit. I don't think it was a stunt. He was running out to try to shoot the

the driver to stop him.

[uppityperson]

57. I wonder if he was running out from behind the vehicle that tarpman would've hit it he tried

blasting through those vehicles? Tarpman truck>sheriffs car>man. Getting out of the way of that, hoping that makes sense.

[trillion]

63. Very good point.

[Kennah]

39. FBI reported it was OSP who shot him n/t

[uppityperson]

42. Yup, here's the FBIs statement

[trillion]

47. Sadly I have to agree. It looks like the cop on the lower right shot him twice before his hands went

down. However, the FBI was still justified. He had just attempted murder on one of their men - nearly ran the guy over.

[Bernin]

50. Nearly ran the guy over that was trying to run the truck over on foot.

Really?!

[trillion]

64. Okay, a few more looks and the guy did not run out to the pickup.

It was a trick of the camera. Watch him fall and look at him after the truck stops and watch him get up.

He's behind the black car where he fell. The angle looked like he was running out when really he was likely trying to take cover behind the black car. He didn't run out at all either, he's further in than the parked black car. Watch him get up and see the camera angle of where he is.

[CBGLuthier]

54. It doesn't work like that. If the threat was being run over and he got out of the truck

That threat does not exist. You can't shoot a man for almost killing someone once he is no longer a threat. They could have shot him while still in the truck in the classic he was coming right at us scenario but this was not the case.

On the other hand I don't think he was shot before he reached for his gun. That was justifiable.

[crim son]

56. Here's what I don't understand:

These so-called "militia" persons had indicated very clearly they were willing to die. Tarp guy particularly said he'd prefer death to capture. So, there was an understanding between both parties, the "militia" and law enforcement, that the potential for violence was very, very real. Why then, when Finicum exits the car, does he not get on his knees and indicate in a very clear manner that he was surrendering as people here have suggested he was doing. I understand there was an element of shock, but it is impossible to believe that a takedown such as this one had not been discussed up at the refuge, with contingency plans in place. Finicum was bound to be shot if he displayed any inclination at all not to peacefully accept his arrest but he chose to run out of the vehicle and make movements that could be reasonably interpreted as threatening.

[uppityperson]

58. Why didn't he simply stop in the road, get out with his hands up?

[crim son]

59. Exactly!

They made a run for it and right then were in even deeper sh** than they had been before, making them appear even more unstable and dangerous. I believe tarp man wanted the confrontation and wanted to be a martyr, but intended to take somebody with him when he went down. Didn't turn out that way.

[Denzil_DC]

52. What the video doesn't convey

is the exchange of words that reportedly took place between Finicum and the officers near him at the time of the shooting.

I hope there's other footage from on the ground that they haven't released yet that will include the soundtrack, otherwise some will continue to make hay with their own interpretations of such distant footage (as is happening on this very thread).