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Denzil_DC

(7,227 posts)
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:41 AM Jan 2016

Oregon standoff: Video of LaVoy Finicum's death fuels rampant rumors, debate

Source: Oregonlive, The Oregonian

Robert 'LaVoy' Finicum shooting in slow-motion
The FBI footage that shows the shooting of Robert 'LaVoy' Finicum prompted further questions about his death. This video shows the moments leading up to and after Finicum's death in slow motion.


BURNS -- In a rare move, the FBI on Thursday released footage of Robert "LaVoy" Finicum's fatal shooting two days earlier at the hands of Oregon State Police troopers.

It's unusual for law enforcement agencies to release video footage of police shootings so quickly. Doing so, FBI officials hoped, would dispel rumors about Finicum's death.

...

For those inclined to believe the police account of the shooting – that Finicum was shot after resisting arrest on a remote highway between Burns and John Day – the grainy, soundless video offered confirmation.



Read more: http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_video_of_lavoy.html#incart_maj-story-1



Oregonlive at the link above has a slow-motion excerpt of the LaVoy Finicum shooting which is a lot clearer than earlier versions published. Unfortunately it can't be embedded here.

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Oregon standoff: Video of LaVoy Finicum's death fuels rampant rumors, debate (Original Post) Denzil_DC Jan 2016 OP
It was clearly suicide by cop, unless someone wants really badly to see it as something else. Electric Monk Jan 2016 #1
The cops over-reacted; he was reaching for his snacks. nt Xipe Totec Jan 2016 #2
Or his dildo. Lochloosa Jan 2016 #3
Tough call. The video is too grainy. nt Xipe Totec Jan 2016 #4
I agree..rewind..pause...rewind...pause..can't tell Lochloosa Jan 2016 #5
Should have kept his tarp on rpannier Jan 2016 #18
Mormon extremists PNW_Dem Jan 2016 #21
He should have used the Invisibility Tarp. cheapdate Jan 2016 #24
Good one...Simple fact is if he was Black...well, he never would have lived long randys1 Jan 2016 #26
what about the guy driving the vehicle that Bundy was riding in, the other vehicle at the scene? olddad56 Jan 2016 #6
Without knowing which officer(s) fired, and when, it's impossible to tell from that petronius Jan 2016 #7
Word has it, that the Inquirer has recent pics Joe Shlabotnik Jan 2016 #8
Elvis, perhaps... Vestigial_Sister Jan 2016 #9
Tarpmen of London. randome Jan 2016 #27
White guy gets shot, released video and debate Feeling the Bern Jan 2016 #10
To be fair, they had no issue releasing the video in this instance Chakab Jan 2016 #11
Because of that there is no fainess to it. nt TeamPooka Jan 2016 #12
Don't rely on these clips, watch the full 26 minute video for some context Not Sure Jan 2016 #13
Consider the possibility that the air bags deployed when the truck hit the snow bank... hexola Jan 2016 #14
These guys would be called Jenny_92808 Jan 2016 #15
This guy would have been long gone if he'd been black or a Muslim. Vinca Jan 2016 #16
Facts destroy militia fanatic murder claims Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2016 #17
The authorities santafe52 Jan 2016 #19
I see an armed and dangerous militant evading arrest IronLionZion Jan 2016 #20
the traffic check point stop kiri Jan 2016 #22
No, that's not how it works. Reach for the gun, you get shot. ntj geek tragedy Jan 2016 #28
You're kidding, right? When cops are pointing guns at you, you think you should pull out your own? randome Jan 2016 #29
Seriously? He almost ran down a cop and would have if the snow bank hadn't stopped him. Fla Dem Jan 2016 #30
He came out with his hands up Plucketeer Jan 2016 #23
What I find ironic about the "rumors, debate" justiceischeap Jan 2016 #25
You know what the sad thing is.... markj757 Jan 2016 #31
Yeah, that there are so many more brainwashed people just like him, all L. Coyote Jan 2016 #32
 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
1. It was clearly suicide by cop, unless someone wants really badly to see it as something else.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:44 AM
Jan 2016

Finicum had his hands up, then he dropped his hands and reached for his gun, and then they shot him.

rpannier

(24,329 posts)
18. Should have kept his tarp on
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 10:16 AM
Jan 2016

It probably repels bullets and provides extra protection against FBI agents

PNW_Dem

(119 posts)
21. Mormon extremists
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 12:33 PM
Jan 2016

I believe that you are referring to his magic underwear. If the right wants Obama to refer to ISIS as Islamic extremists, then the Bundy clan needs to be called what they are, “Mormon extremists”.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
26. Good one...Simple fact is if he was Black...well, he never would have lived long
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 02:56 PM
Jan 2016

enough to be on that road, and we all know it.

olddad56

(5,732 posts)
6. what about the guy driving the vehicle that Bundy was riding in, the other vehicle at the scene?
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 02:21 AM
Jan 2016

His story collaborated the FBI story.

petronius

(26,602 posts)
7. Without knowing which officer(s) fired, and when, it's impossible to tell from that
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 02:23 AM
Jan 2016

If the only shot(s) occurred right before he fell, then it certainly looks like he was turning toward the officer at the far left and reaching for something at the same time; given everything that had gone before, that officer arguably could have had a reasonable fear. But if he'd been shot earlier when he was waving his arms around, I think it's a little murkier.

I do hope that there is better video, with audio, from some other angles...

Joe Shlabotnik

(5,604 posts)
8. Word has it, that the Inquirer has recent pics
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 03:28 AM
Jan 2016

of Finicum sipping a Piña colada with Elvis and Jim Morrison at Trader Vics. His tarp was perfect.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
27. Tarpmen of London.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 03:04 PM
Jan 2016

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
10. White guy gets shot, released video and debate
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 03:39 AM
Jan 2016

Black guy gets shot, takes court orders and changes nothing because he was still a thug

Yeah, there is no racism in this country.

 

Chakab

(1,727 posts)
11. To be fair, they had no issue releasing the video in this instance
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 04:29 AM
Jan 2016

because it backs up their version of events.

Law enforcement fights to prevent releasing the videos that show that they're lying.

Not Sure

(735 posts)
13. Don't rely on these clips, watch the full 26 minute video for some context
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:16 AM
Jan 2016

It is clear what happens to him. He was stopped initially and after a long time pressing the brake pedal and releasing it, he ran from police. A short while later he rounded a curve at high speed and encountered a roadblock. He tried to avoid the roadblock and narrowly avoided striking an officer with his vehicle. Another officer appeared out of the woods to Finicum's left as he exited the vehicle. He raised his hands, lowered them to his shirt/jacket, turned as the officer he almost hit approached from near his vehicle, raised and lowered his hands to his shirt/jacket again and was shot.

He either mistakenly believed he could shoot his way out of the confrontation or decided to make good on his statement he'd rather die than be arrested.

I am not a blind supporter of police - far from it - but it appears they gave him every opportunity to resolve this peacefully. Again, see the entire 26 minute video for context and draw your own conclusions.

 

hexola

(4,835 posts)
14. Consider the possibility that the air bags deployed when the truck hit the snow bank...
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:40 AM
Jan 2016

That would have been very disorienting - and may have been mistaken for gunfire...

If you never been through it - its like a blank shell going off in your face...very loud and gun like...

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,988 posts)
17. Facts destroy militia fanatic murder claims
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 10:12 AM
Jan 2016

Militias (shadowy white right wing terroristic groups) and Finicum partisans are pushing the story of from the 18 yo singer who said he raised his hands. They say he was murdered and shot in the back. The facts are otherwise, though she is right that he did raise his hands. But he was extremely stupid.

1) Finicum publicly swore he would not be arrested alive. Suicidal martyrdom death wish. On tape on multiple occasions, aired on multiple media many times before that fatal day. His four remaining foster kids were removed from his ranch. By his own admission they were his source of income. He had backed himself into a situation where he didn't have much to live for. "I have no intention of spending any of my days in a concrete box.”

2) Finicum was always armed, as frequently seen in videos and attested to by his comrades.

3) Finicum evaded arrest and drove away from a properly organized traffic stop. Stupid.

4) He drove too fast to stop in time and plowed off the road at the road block. Lost control and use of his vehicle. Not the brightest move.

5) He was the only one to exit the vehicle. Not smart.

6) The partisans claim he was flailing in the snow as he was walking. It is easy to see that the snow was not too deep.

7) In an armed law enforcement stop like that you stop walking. It's the obvious thing to do. Finicum did not stop walking.

7) He raises his hands, but not in submission. He is gesticulating and gesturing wildly.

8) Eye witness reports from group members inside his truck say he was not submissive in any way. He shouted "shoot me ... just shoot me".

9) Even after all that he was not shot. Not until he actually made threatening moves. LEOs were very restrained and patient.

10) The video shows clearly enough that he was shot as he was turning toward the LEO at the left side. Finicum was either shot in the side or the left front. Finicum falls backward, not like when people are shot in the back but like when they are shot in the front.

11) The video shows clearly enough that Finicum first looked down at his waist area and fiddled with his jacket there as if readying a weapon. Even children know that is a stupid move in an armed confrontation with Law Enforcement, let alone experienced 55 yo gun loving ranchers. Then after more gesturing he does it again as he turns toward the LEO.

Summary: a man with little left to lose intent on suicide by cop does several things to ensure that outcome.



Note the ammunition in his belt:



 

santafe52

(57 posts)
19. The authorities
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 10:47 AM
Jan 2016

were very, very lenient, fair and reserved in their actions with and reactions to the militia terrorists. They are heroes for risking their lives in dealing with a group of very unstable and dangerous people. They did their jobs perfectly.

For once the NRA was right about something. In this case the GOOD guy with a gun took out the BAD guy with a gun.

IronLionZion

(45,409 posts)
20. I see an armed and dangerous militant evading arrest
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 11:54 AM
Jan 2016

and clearly reaching for his gun. He has publicly stated in interviews that he will rather die than go to jail.

Young black men have been killed without even having a gun, many many many times.

kiri

(794 posts)
22. the traffic check point stop
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 12:33 PM
Jan 2016

Another example of police over-reaction. 2 vehicles would have been adequate; 3 would be enough. Cop's toys paid for by taxpayers.

The only thing missing was a battleship.

Voy was a nutcase, I shed no tears. However cops could have waited another few seconds with standard "fearing for their lives" to see if Voy was maybe intending to show and turn over his gun.



 

randome

(34,845 posts)
29. You're kidding, right? When cops are pointing guns at you, you think you should pull out your own?
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 03:08 PM
Jan 2016

Hilarious.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

Fla Dem

(23,632 posts)
30. Seriously? He almost ran down a cop and would have if the snow bank hadn't stopped him.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 03:24 PM
Jan 2016

Once he exited he twice reached for the gun in his pocket. Let's see how patient you are the next time someone goes to pull a gun on you.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
23. He came out with his hands up
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 12:47 PM
Jan 2016

That was good. I think it's fair to assume he realized the gravity of his situation at that point. He doesn't appear to lose his balance, but drops his hands to fiddle with something at waist level. THAT was the point of "stupid" or "suicide". I don't care if your pants aree sliding down - you keep your hands up.

Of course, this whole stupid fiasco these "revolutionaries" tried to pull off almost guaranteed some death would occur. Guns are tools of death. If you live by them, you increase your risk of dying by them.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
25. What I find ironic about the "rumors, debate"
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 02:48 PM
Jan 2016

is that when this happens to someone of color, the first reaction usually is, "Well, if they hadn't committed a crime" or "He was asking for it by not completely complying with the cops" but when a white, republican nut job does it, there's some huge conspiracy theory or complaints that the police should have given him more of a chance to surrender. You can't have it both ways.

 

markj757

(194 posts)
31. You know what the sad thing is....
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 03:49 PM
Jan 2016

I'm sure as he lay their dying, he probably thought he would go down in history as sparking some type of revolution if he died. If he only knew how truly meaningless, his death would be perceived by just about the entire nation, except some right wing fanatics.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
32. Yeah, that there are so many more brainwashed people just like him, all
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 04:04 PM
Jan 2016

taught by hate radio and the Republicans to think and act like this. It's as if they are all hyponotized by their own negative feedback loops. The danger they pose to others is the sad thing, not what they do to themselves.



LaVoy lives on to epitomize how far astray the wingnuts have been led.

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