FBI continues to negotiate with defiant Oregon refuge holdouts

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Reuters

FBI continues to negotiate with defiant Oregon refuge holdouts
Reuters
By Peter Henderson
3 hours ago

BURNS, Ore. (Reuters) - The FBI negotiated further with four armed occupants at a remote federal wildlife refuge in Oregon on Saturday while the holdouts in a video posted online expressed their mistrust of the government and reluctance to leave.

One of the four protesters remaining at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge said in a darkly lit video posted on Friday that he wanted to be assured he would not be arrested if he left. Others with him expressed similar resolve.

. . .

"I don't believe that they have any authority over me because they're illegal and I can't bow down to that," one man, who described himself as defending the U.S. Constitution, said on the video.

. . .

The same man later in the video said he did not want to face arrest and the possibility of a felony, which could prevent him from owning a gun.


Read more: https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-continues-negotiate-defiant-oregon-refuge-holdouts-002700914.html

---

[center]

Right this way, cretins. [/center]

[slumcamper]

1. Oh, the sheer audacity of their misguided hope! (eom)

[passiveporcupine]

2. Recent words from the "then there were four" holdovers

"I'm hoping for a miracle," Anderson told Sheriff Doug Giddings, who has been Idaho County's top law enforcement officer for eight years.

"I believe God put us here."

"If we don't stand up 'til the end on this, then why did we come here in the first place?"

"We're armed but -- "

"We're always armed," the only woman at the refuge said.

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_last_of_the_oc.html#incart_maj-story-1

they now want pardons for everyone involved before they'll leave the headquarters

The remaining occupiers had been livestreaming the standoff on YouTube or posting periodic videos to detail their preparations to die at the refuge.

"Obviously we can't get outta here scot-free," Fry said in the video. He believes authorities plan to arrest the highest-risk occupiers right away. As for the rest, "they just want to separate us and get us all home so they can pick us off one-by-one."

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/as_oregon_standoff_drags_on_ee.html#incart_maj-story-1

Ammon Bundy stood to address the court, saying his intent was never to start an "armed standoff.''

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/federal_judge_denies_release_f.html#incart_maj-story-1

Bullshit it wasn't.

[Judi Lynn]

3. Thanks for posting these comments. They are unbelievable! Idiots. n/t

[Kip Humphrey]

5. my favorite part...

"We're armed but -- "

"We're always armed," the only woman at the refuge said.



edited to add:

[LeftyMom]

13. Last night on the livestream they were on the phone with Ammon's lawyer

and they told him that they'd seen a bald eagle and they felt it was a sign from God.

In a bird sanctuary.

[passiveporcupine]

15. Oh, I missed that.

I live in the forest and a couple of days ago got an e-mail from a neighbor. A local cop saw two cougars traveling together out by my house and he wanted to warn me.

Is that a sign of GOD? Whatever does it mean?

I think it means it's mating season for cougars right now so they can have cubs in spring. But I might just be delusional.

[Dont call me Shirley]

54. A wild rabbit was in my front yard a few nights ago. A pack of coyotes were in my yard last night.

It must be a sign from God, a sign of the perfect order of life.

[AllyCat]

23. No dude, it's a sign for US.

[reACTIONary]

43. It was teddy roosevelt flying . .

... a recon drone over his sanctuary . Next up, ghostly rough riders charge! Bully !

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

4. Yes, moron! They will throw you in prison and take your guns!!

Maybe you should have given that some thought in advance of your he-man bluster!

[Ford_Prefect]

6. I find myself wondering about the differences between this kind of crazy and Ted Cruz, Trump et al.

It's hard to tell the ignorant from the willfully arrogant from the stupid and angry. I think this is bunch is a new low on the clueless scale - right down there with herding cats.

[passiveporcupine]

7. I am wondering if they can be classified as insane

In any case, they seem to be trying to win Darwin awards.

[Ford_Prefect]

8. Fry in particular has genuine problems discerning reality, and he's terrified of losing his weapons

and he is armed. How truly different is he from Trump, Cruz, and Rubio?

[passiveporcupine]

11. In Jon Krakauer's book "Under the Banner of Heaven"

he posits that delusional is not necessarily insane, and I agree with him. These people have been raised and propagandized into believing what they've been talking to each other about for years. They do not believe the Federal Government has any control over state lands. They do not recognize the FBI as having legitimate power in dealing with this militant standoff.

The part the I think makes them crazy and not just delusional, is that they don't think guns and warnings to the local cops and FBI that they will fight anyone trying to remove them and will kill before they are taken, are "an armed standoff". To me they know it is, but they are indulging in self-rationalization to deny the truth. And now, deciding that death is preferable to prison because being arrested, and losing their guns, and spending time in jail, is worse than death. Seriously, how many people of sound mind would choose death over a fairly short prison sentence?

Yeah...that reeks of a little bit of crazy to me. But it still could just be delusional thinking. I mean the fundamental Mormons believe it's OK to kill to protect the church...there is a revelation from on high that gives them that permission. So is that delusion or crazy?

Jon K says delusion. Because it's been drilled into them since birth. Just like most religions are delusional and all cults are. My sister was a scientologist for awhile. She is very strange, and delusional about many things, but she is not insane. She just is vulnerable to buying into off-the-wall stuff. Now she is heavy into born again Christian.

[hopemountain]

17. thanks for sharing

and broadening the distinction/difference between delusional and insane and circumstances under which they can occur.

[Ford_Prefect]

19. Fry may be delusional but Ammon and Ryan are another story. They knew they were breaking laws that

could be enforced.

I live in the South and have heard this kind of strange belief that the Federal Government has no genuine authority many times in certain contexts. I hear it when I travel out West as well. Just because Caribou Barbie, or Donald Trump, or GW Bush says it is so does not make it fact, however much believers wish it so. Federal, State and local laws are written documents with history and legal argument supporting their application and meaning. They have effect not only because we believe in what they say but because they actually function to help order social and business activity.

The people who presently believe that immunization is not safe for their children assume to know as much based on a falsified research study that was purported to be true. Are they delusional? Does their refusal to inoculate their family members put others in harm's way? If they will not be dissuaded from their belief what do we then do with them and their families? A sick child is not quite the same as a loaded assault rifle pointed in your direction. However I think we must consider which beliefs motivate active harm as opposed to passive disagreement.

I for one do not believe in arming delusional people, no matter their income or social status. You just never know when they will decide it is time to shoot or at whom.

[passiveporcupine]

20. The Bundys are Mormons, so I'm not the least surprised that while they know

they are breaking laws, they do not honor the laws or the enforcement of those laws.

[brer cat]

28. I am from the south also

and I agree that many here share those beliefs very strongly. It is impossible to reason with them. Same with the rebel flag wavers who insist against all logic that they are honoring their "noble heritage." That most of them are ignorant, armed and believe they are not bound by our laws is frightening.

[tomp]

24. there is no recognized psychiatric diagnosis-"insane."

there is such a thing as a delusional disorder, which would be defined generally as a false belief that interferes with a person's normal life function.

In-sane basically means "not (mentally) healthy" and is applied generally to a person's mental status as a colloquialism. The word insane may appear in some legal contexts but I'm not familiar enough with law to say.

it would be the job a a court with the assistance of psychiatric evaluation to determine if a person has a psychiatric illness that has any bearing on their alleged illegal activities. As it stands right now they appear to be in violation of the law in everyone's eyes except theirs and their supporters.

[navarth]

33. That book was a great read

...and Mormons creep me out ever since.

[reACTIONary]

44. +10, thnx

[safeinOhio]

9. If you can't do the time,

don't do the crime.

[Gene Debs]

10. Wouldn't this really be the right time to turn off the refuge's water and electricity?

[handmade34]

26. still...

it's winter and damage could be done to the buildings if power is turned off

[Gene Debs]

42. So they can add the repair bill to the sentences of the terrorists that occupied the place.

[FailureToCommunicate]

27. Way PAST time to do that, or other methods mentioned on this site. We now see

the FBI wisdom for letting the nut jobs rant on and on in videos and interviews, since presumeably those statements weaken any legal defense for innocence. But at this point the Feds must have enough incriminating gobbledegook from the remaining bozos.

Law enforcement should tell the last ones there to put things back and clean the compound up OR the Feds will come in and do it...using their scalps!

(And belated welcome to DU, Gene Debs )

[Turbineguy]

29. The FBI seems

to have let them run out of nothing to say.

[csziggy]

38. Thye've got a generator running

You can hear it in the background of every video they have posted on YouTube. Someone in another thread said the wildlife refuge has large fuel stores so they can probably fuel the generator for long periods - months at least.

Water would be pumped from a well so the only way to turn it off would be to eliminate the generators as well as outside electricity.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. If they "don't have any authority " over you, then why do you

want a pardon?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

14. Let's have Trump offer them a pardon....

These guys are dumb enough to believe it.

[navarth]

34. -snort- that was funny

[olddad56]

16. They have painted themselves into a corner.

now they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you can't do the time, shouldn't do the crime.

[passiveporcupine]

18. Yes, they are in a tough spot.

And one of them knows he's going to jail and does not want to give in. So, he's probably convinced the other three that they have to stay to protect all of them.

and they posted a request via youtube that more militia groups come to their aid to build the defense (as if the FEDs would even let them in now).

[Wibly]

21. Do the crime time

If the man didn't want to face the time, he should not have done the crime.
Isn't that what these Right Wing folks say about petty criminals?
All over the world people get arrested for their beliefs. Right there in America the Occupiers were arrested and went to jail. So did Martin Luther King and his people.
These children whine they don't want to get arrested.
They claim they are part of a movement, even a revolution, but they don't have the guts to go to jail for it. At least Finnicum put his money where his mouth was. Not these boys.

[jwirr]

47. Exactly. Every protester since Thoreau has understood that

there are consequences for protesting. In fact the arrests are even a part of the protest.

Yet these yahoos think that they somehow should be exempt from the tradition.

Three of them are being conned by the one who has an arrest warrant out for his arrest. They are all easily led by a bunch of propaganda that they want to believe.

[AllyCat]

22. He doesn't want to lose his gun? Then he should have been a law-abiding

Gun owner instead of committing a crime with one.

[Marrah_G]

25. These 4 are completely delusional and paranoid

[brush]

30. Yep! I fear they're looking at this as their last stand

"The Alamo syndrome" — especially Fry, the one doing all the livestreaming.

And why is the youngest one with the least life experience, and dare I say, the worst judgment, their spokesperson?

I mean he expects a miracle, a pardon after all this.

[peacebird]

32. He has posted support for ISIS and praise of Hitler. His father says he is a very angry paranoid man

Considering all the paranoid conspiracy theories they have discussed on video around the campfire... Well... These clearly are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

On the brighter side, apparently the militia groups are outraged that the FBI hasn't taken them out already and THEIR conspiracy theory appears to be that the FBI is letting these guys post videos to make the militia groups look stupid!

See there is a silver lining.

[csziggy]

39. The youngest is probably the only one who knows how to post YouTube videos

And has the technology to do it. That is likely the only reason he is now the "spokesman."

[randome]

41. David Fry is also the one I expect to die by his own hand.

He seems to have nothing to live for but this ad-hoc 'resistance' against society. He has so thoroughly embarrassed himself and utterly failed (in his mind, I think) that I don't see him ever trying to live a normal life again. And that may have already occurred to him.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[brush]

45. Uh-huh, and he's only in his late 20s so he probably thinks his life is over without his gun

He's armed and might commit suicide by cop like the LaVoy guy did — go out in a "blaze of glory".

[csziggy]

46. Could be - he certainly seems to have some issues

It really is too bad he will not get the help he needs. Either he will die - suicide by cop or by his own hand - or he will be locked up in prison where he will get no counseling. While I have laughed at the comments on his YouTube videos, I feel sorry for the man.

[jwirr]

48. Not only a pardon for himself but for all of them. That is not

going to happen.

[peacebird]

31. 'dozens' of militia types drove around Burns last night with American, Confederate, &TeaParty flags

Expressing their outrage that tarpman was killed. Dozens. Probably the number = to their intellect.

[The Jungle 1]

35. Felons can't own guns

I hadn't thought of that. Not being able to own a gun will really hurt these boobs.

Bottom line they just want free stuff.

[Cryptoad]

36. Nuttin new here

Thugs being thugs....

[pandr32]

37. Well, hopefully they are arrested when they leave (or before)

...and then will never legally be allowed to own a gun again, as though that is their most serious concern...idiots that they are. They broke laws...and they made the choice to do so...now there are those nasty consequences.

[Quixote1818]

40. At night the FBI should sneak into the building with the food and raid it

See how long they will last without snacks.

[Helen Borg]

49. Do they also want a pony?

Hey guys, jail time for you, no question about it.

[Sunlei]

50. four of them, they're scared. Let them walk out without 'scary gun hiding coats' FBI

Longer they go on scared, they may make a last stand like blue-tarp-man did.

[tularetom]

51. Remember what happened when Davy Crockett said he'd leave the Alamo if Santa Anna pardoned him?

Oh, that's right it didn't happen that way.

I guess these whiners don't believe in something enough to die for it.

Just a bunch of crybabies playing soldier.

[L. Coyote]

52. Changes today, no more internet, only one phone working, only incoming calls

#BundyTeaParty Day 30: What you need to know = four holdouts await divine intervention =

[passiveporcupine]

53. I was thinking last night this would be their best move

Cut off all communications and stop trying to even negotiate with them. I think that will panic them more than anything. They won't know what is coming or when...even if nothing is, they will be imagining it.

Your imagination can be a powerful thing.

So I was glad to see this, this morning.