CDC recommends doctors avoid prescribing opioids for chronic pain
Source: USA Today
n an attempt to combat the nation's deadly prescription painkiller epidemic, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Tuesday issued its first set of guidelines on dispensing the addictive medications, urging doctors to avoid providing them for chronic pain.
The agency said the risks from prescribing opiates, a class of morphine-like painkillers, far outweigh the benefits for most patients with long-term pain, except for those receiving cancer treatment or end-of-life care. When the drugs are necessary, the CDC advises doctors prescribe the lowest possible dose for the shortest amount of time.
About 40 Americans die each day from overdosing on prescription painkillers, according to the CDC. In 2013, an estimated 1.9 million people abused or were dependent on prescription opiates.
"We know of no other medication routinely used for a nonfatal condition that kills patients so frequently," said CDC director Thomas Frieden. "We hope to see fewer deaths from opiates. That's the bottom line. These are really dangerous medications that carry the risk of addiction and death."
Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/03/15/cdc-issues-new-guidelines-opiate-prescribing-reduce-abuse-overdoses/81809704/
Just great.
Now, millions of us with chronic pain will just have to suffer.
Warpy
(111,245 posts)Untreated pain is fatal.
Coventina
(27,101 posts)Just sayin.....
hlthe2b
(102,228 posts)Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)cannabis_flower
(3,764 posts)people taking too much Tylenol on the advice of their doctor and damaging their liver.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)I do not suffer from such a thing, but occasionally something happens to me that involves pain, like when I break a bone, and relief is crucial.
6chars
(3,967 posts)When the suicide rate spikes, I hope they will reconsider
bananas
(27,509 posts)mrmpa
(4,033 posts)from chronic pain, the CDC is full of shit. Nothing alleviates the pain except for my 2 Vicodin a day. And it really only alleviates 75% of the pain.
I've been on this for 8 years. I have been fully employed when using this medication. When the dosage was reduced from 7.5-750 to the new dosage of 7.5-325, I had to ask the Doctor for something to cover the break through pain. I now use 2 Tramadol as needed for the break through.
I saw a Doctor, who when I met with him, I was in so much pain I was crying and I couldn't sit. As this pain was caused by a work injury (broken hip), he said I was okay to return to work. I asked what do I do about the pain, his answer was "I don't know and I don't care.
So the CDD can go pound salt.
BTW, many Doctors have a God complex and feel that anything they do cannot cause pain for their patient(s), so they believe their patients are lying.
MurrayDelph
(5,293 posts)That's what they keep trying to push as an alternative to the once-every-couple-of-weeks Vicodin or the twice-daily Nabumetone (an NSAID).
For me (and for me wife), Tramadol is all side-effect and no benefit.
For a while I kept some around just in case I had explosive diarrhea, but it does nothing for pain.
mrmpa
(4,033 posts)but it helps until my next vicodin.
I'm sorry your doctors don't sound accepting or receptive. I personally can't use NSAID"S, because I have duodenitis and if I take any I will have a stomach bleed.
CTyankee
(63,903 posts)Never again...
greymouse
(872 posts)That's exactly my experience with Tramadol.
DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)sendero
(28,552 posts)... from 750 mg of acetaminophen to 325 mg. Your hydrocodone dose did not change. You could make your 7.5/325 mg pill the same as a 7.5/750 pill by adding a 325mg OTC Tylenol to it.
redruddyred
(1,615 posts)I have had chronic pain and sproradically took vicodin for the issue. i did need it. i can understand how folk become addicted tho.
the accusations of drug seeking behavior are ridic tho, I have been accused of this when needing
1)neurontin
2)imitrex
neither of which are addictive and the former of which is in fact quite shitty
i'm out of the woods now but NOT HAPPY for the people who continue to struggle with difficult conditons and absolutely deserve access to scripts. I have sympathy for addicts but it only goes so far; we can't let sick people suffer because of their poor decisions.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)... of the Vicodin. Too much acetaminophen can result in a horrible death.
You were still receiving the same amount of the narcotic.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)A broken bone is not chronic pain. Rheumatoid Arthritis is chronic pain.
You could still get a 'script for a broken bone, but not for a chronic condition.
Chronic for Chronic.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)pain, just the odd acute episode, such as when I break a bone. I have an acquaintance who has rheumatoid arthritis, and is on some pretty strong pain meds for it. She cannot function otherwise. With the meds (and I honestly have no idea what she takes) she is very functional, can work full time, do gardening and so on. Without the meds she'd probably be unable to work and more or less housebound, perhaps bedridden.
As someone who does occasionally break a bone, I'm very grateful for pain relief at those times, and I cannot imagine having to go through life with constant pain.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)and apparently Mr. dixie's doc thinks so too, as he has kindly prescribed opioid pain relief this past 10 months now for him.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,174 posts)4 STORIES! She's had 3 back surgeries, but no relief. She is on several meds, including Fentanyl patches and a muscle relaxant called Baclofen that is administered through a pump.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)RobinA
(9,888 posts)from experience that marijuana actually does anything for pain? My marijuana days are long in the past and I never had pain at age 20, so I have no experience with this. Just curious.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)My only experience in that area was when I tried smoking some for menstrual cramps. They were worse when I was under the influence, or I was more in tune with my body so I felt them more. Personally, I'd be hesitant to try it for some other pain, but I want to emphasize the personally part.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)BeanCounting
(105 posts)I live in Oregon, and had recent knee replacements. I went to dispensary and got some high CBD strains to try for pain relief. It work well on pain for about four hours for me. And the pot has changed so much since we were in our 20's, haha, let me tell you.... If you don't get a strain high in THC, you won't feel like you have spent your day too wasted to get anything else done.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)Some chronic pain sufferers are allergic to Gabapentin, Lyrica, Cymbalta... and opioids are their only relief. Being on opioids is being treated like a criminal due to the abuse of others. They do get less effective over time and Marijuana helps to supplement pain relief, unless you live in a state like Texas where they don't care if you hurt.
Adsos Letter
(19,459 posts)Diabetic neuropathy in my feet, and a herniated cervical disc. I will get my second corticosteroid injection tomorrow for the disc; if that doesn't work, it's off to the spine surgeon for me.
I'm 60, and smoked my share of pot when I was younger, but quit in my late 20's. My chronic pain finally moved me to get a medical marijuana card in January, as topicals didn't really ease the neuropathy. Motrin helped with the disc, but I'm diabetic and that stuff is too hard on the kidneys at the doses required to provide some relief (800mg 3 times per day) for me to safely use it for long.
I have resisted taking Gabapentin because of the negative side effects experienced by a couple of people I know (even my doc wasn't particularly enthusiastic about it when she suggested it).
What I can say about MY experience with medical marijuana is that it lessens the burning in my feet from neuropathy, and relaxes the muscles in my back, shoulder, and left arm enough to provide some relief from the herniated disc. It also reduces the feeling that someone is having at my forearm and scapula with a meat tenderizing mallet, which is caused by the disc impinging on the nerve.
My experience is that it does help with pain, but it isn't a magic bullet. It has to be used in conjunction with other therapies: in my case, probably surgery to fix/remove the disc, and diet, exercise, and insulin to keep my blood glucose levels in something resembling a normal range.
Having said that...one of the posters above is correct, current pot strains can be much stronger than what was usually available 30+ years ago. As an example: when I made my first visit to a dispensary they gave me a free gram of bud as a first time customer. A strain called "Baby Stewie," it was tested at 34% THC...
Don't smoke THAT stuff unless you plan on lying down, incommunicado, for a couple of hours.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)and does not involve chronic pain. Opioids can (and should IMHO) be replaced by Cannabis.
greymouse
(872 posts)pain relief for something that will get better, but no pain relief of significance for something one will have the rest of their life. Brilliant.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)(I'd but in a more humorous smiley except that it would be in genuinely poor taste, and I understand exactly what you are getting at.)
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)It didn't do shit for the pain, but I did get a nice, scary bleeding episode out of it.
Around here they don't seem to like prescribing opioids even in the short term for acute pain.
I've never wished golf ball sized kidney stones on so many medical people before in my life.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)because you remained alive. How selfish!
Even though pain is almost never an issue with me, it's frustrating and enraging to what extent doctors won't prescribe enough meds to the people who need them the most.
redruddyred
(1,615 posts)went to the e-room for a 10/10 migraine many years back and after being accused of drugseeking wasn't allowed to take my entire dose because the doctors hadn't explicitly ordered it
in fact i wasn't allowed to stay and wait for the visual symptoms to subside, although i had to get home somehow, and that required being able to see and walk straight
medical ppl are assholes.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)Once again, I'm someone who is annoyingly healthy, almost no problems at all, save the odd C-section or broken bone. But those are temporary, and even if at the time there's a bunch of pain, it goes away pretty quickly.
It makes you wonder about the doctors. Are they like me only with no compassion?
After both C-sections, in under 48 hours, I found I had no need whatsoever for additional pain meds. Were I to assume that's the norm, some 90% or more of women would be denied adequate pain relief after that surgery. I KNOW I was unusual, in no small part because several people in my life told me so, and because the nurses both times were clearly astonished. Now here's the thing: I do NOT consider myself a person with a high pain threshold. Au contraire. I think pain hurts, and the main reason I don't do a good job of seeking dental care is that it HURTS a LOT when someone works on my teeth. And a trivial burn from something like splattered grease is highly painful. So I believe very strongly in adequate pain relief.
Chronic pain, acute pain, what's the difference? Take care of the pain, goddammit!
redruddyred
(1,615 posts)and recently found myself locked in battle with two unsympathetic docs, neither of which seemed privy to the knowledge that beta-blockers are cardiac medication! that's disturbing. i acquitted myself well enough but it was difficult and painful and i would have much rather not been in that postion at all! i swear that approximately 70% of my encounters with physicians turns into a rather acrimonious battle of wits, one for which i am sadly ill-prepared.
as someone with a "mysterious" and "contested" disease which inexplicably isn't taught in medical schools, i'm essentially forced to manage my own care. it's bizarre to me that GPs would be at once totally ignorant and simultaneously so unwilling to let me do the intellectual heavy lifting. maybe I should be the one receiving the copay eh?
for the last week i've been telling all my friends that i'm finally beginning to believe the rumors that this is all a malicious coverup to keep insurance companies rich... what a mess!
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)...they gave me 18 5mgs of oxy with no refill.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)During the acute period where I was writhing, moaning, and screaming with 10/10 pain in an ER cubicle, I was given fuck all for pain, other than random staff coming into the cubicle to tell me to STFU, and being informed that my call bell was no longer being responded to.
Several hours later, after the stone had shifted, and the extreme pain had resolved, (and after my mother had shown up to advocate/demand that I get some medical attention) I was generously given 2 5mg Hydrocodones by the idiot resident "doctor" on duty. And a large prescription for megadoses of ibuprofen (hence the bleeding episode).
I eventually managed to wrestle a small scrip for 5 mg Hydrocodone from my own doctor, but not without her throwing a tantrum and accusing me of being a drug seeker, and after she'd let me go for more than a week with fuck all for pain.
I fucking hate the medical practitioners around here, and honestly believe I would have gotten better and more compassionate care with vets if I'd been a dog.
Believe me when I say that I am taking steps to ensure self sufficiency in pain management should I get another stone, and am planning to stay the fuck away from any ERs.
Fucking assholes!
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)It progressively got worse and worse. I never knew this type of pain existed. I mean, I've been beat in the face with a baseball bat, and that didn't touch this. I asked my fiance for an Advil. I took several, which of course didn't touch it. After awhile, I thought something may be wrong (a bowel obstruction or something), so I asked my fiance to call the ambulance.
Finally in the ER Cubicle, I was doing my writhing - couldn't stand, couldn't lay down - there was no position that brought relief. I had already vomited three times from the pain alone (I was not nauseous; this was straight pain-induced). I was sweating profusely and in really bad shape. My fiance finally got there and asked me if I got any pain medication, to which I replied, "I didn't know I could ask." She went immediately to the nurses station and as soon as the nurse saw me, she put me on a cycle of delauded. A few minutes later, I asked when it was supposed to kick in. The nurse looked bewildered, so she gave me another cycle. Before I left, they gave me one 5 mg Oxycodone, and a script for the 18 and no refill.
I guess I was lucky. Sorry that they treated you that way.
I, too, am taking measures to not have to rely on ERs - just in case. I hear kidney stones most likely reoccur.
Best of luck to you.
OwlinAZ
(410 posts)or are post op healing.
RobinA
(9,888 posts)even work that well until you bleed out. I currently have moderate knee pain (none chronic) for which I am taking an NSAID and it knocks it back to slightly more moderate knee pain. I can't imagine it would touch big time pain, and my relatives with chronic pain tell me it does not.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)She has chronic and bad back pain due to spinal stenosis and scoliosis. She was not allowed to take any prescribed pain medication and was stuck with NSAIDS. After years of use, she ended up in the hospital for three days from internal bleeding.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)200mg per capita per year. Canada and Australia are at half that. The rest of the world is under 50.
zazen
(2,978 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)HOWEVER you can run to any gas station and buy a pack of smokes...our country has some of the most fucked up priorities I've ever seen.
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)My son and are both using it for chronic conditions. Depends on which state you're in of course.
freeplessinseattle
(3,508 posts)I buy a box of 10 for $38-40 at the local legal pot shops-15/mg cbd capsules, with only 1.5 mg of thc.
I've been smoking pot since college days (20+ yrs) with decent migraine and nausea relief, but when I discovered the cbd caps I about kissed the ground!
Regular rx painkillers do next to nothing for me, except mess up my stomach, and make me edgy while in my system. Do not get why people without pain issues become addicted, but everyone has different body chemistry.
So while case is obviously very different from others who need certain meds, it seems that the medical cannabis can treat a wider range of conditions-without the stomach upset and other side effects that the other painkillers can bring. So worth a try if you can!
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)intrepidity
(7,294 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Does yoga help the pain?
Meditation?
I can't imagine having a lot of pain. Some people are more sensitive to pain than others, and I may be out of place in saying this, but physical therapy and exercise have helped a lot with my arthritis.
Also there is the Egoscue method and the book Pain Free which explains how to deal with muscle pain and how the body works, how the muscles work so that we experience pain and what to do about it.
I hope this is helpful. And I apologize if it seems dismissive.
I am sorry you have pain.
DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)... are generally not the ones dying from painkiller abuse. Chronic pain patients take what they need to function, and usually no more. And most of us would give up pain meds in a heartbeat if we could live a decent quality life without them.
When you live at a daily 7+/10 on the pain scale, you do everything - meditation, mindfulness, breathing, PT/exercise (if you can) - and it's NOT ENOUGH. Nerve pain doesn't respond to things that work for muscle pain, and not all chronic pain patients respond well to nerve blocks or other injections.
And facing a future full of pain, with no available relief from your doctor, is horrifying. I can't even tell you how hopeless it feels. So I agree with a poster above - be prepared to watch the suicide rate among chronic pain patients go up under this new policy.
(On a separate note, I'm really glad you're able to well-manage your arthritis pain without resorting to opioids, and I very much hope this remains the case for you.)
Blessings,
DLO
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I have sciatica but keeping active and working out help enormously.
Pain from injury is difficult, I am sure.
I'm just lucky. Maybe I am not so sensitive to pain as other people. I often wonder if that is the case. My mother was not as sensitive to pain as most people.
I'm so sorry for people who have to live with pain. I wish I could help, but I'm just useless in that regard.
DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)fucks with every part of me and prevents me from being able to do a lot of physical activity. The older I get the more limited I am, as my various tendons and ligaments weaken and shred. It also causes chronic migraines, chronic GI dysfunction, and some other lovely not-painful-but-disabling symptoms that I get to keep for life. If I could take opioids I totally would - the idea of being able to sit/stand/walk/sleep with less pain sounds heavenly. I have a ridiculously high pain tolerance for acute injuries, but the daily non-stop pain just grinds you down in ways I never could have imagined...
zazen
(2,978 posts)I'm a fellow sufferer and I've been told it's stress and all in my head (including the dislocations--seriously) until the past five years (8/9 on Beighton scale here). I've turned DOWN painkillers regularly for the chronic pain (not acute). But to have the CDC tell us we just need to try other alternatives, as if we haven't? When I need it, I'll need it. When you're in acute pain that doesn't show up on an MRI, you want to kill yourself. And I will if I'm in that much pain for a long time and can't get relief. There is no question. It's like living with a permanently recently broken bone--a constant dislocation that is worth than childbirth. Death is preferable. Unless someone's been there, they don't know.
And I speak as someone with a serious heroin addict in the family. Harming chronic pain patients and patients with EDS where the acute pain doesn't show up on MRI is not the way to deal with this problem.
Just one more thing to be furious about, but of course, I'm used to having to be extra special mindful so as not to trigger a crash, for which I will be blamed because I look so "healthy."
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)opioids. People with chronic pain who receiving prescription opioids aren't all of a sudden dropping dead.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)more deaths. Damn, I do live in a sea of stupidity.
LiberalArkie
(15,715 posts)pulls on my "S" shaped spine causing more muscles to contract. I was used to it happening about once a month and it would put me out of commission for about 3 days until all the muscles relaxed. I went to the emergency room one day and naturally no one would believe me, figuring I was just wanting the drugs. A new resident did a ct scan and it showed my spine and he gave me a script for valium and hydrocodone. I took it for a few days and was amazed. After I got over it I started taking one of each pill on Saturday just for the heck of it. I have not had the spasms or pain come back in over 3 years. I go through the bottle of 30 about every 3 or 4 months.
My doc has suggested to some of her pain patients to try it before they have the pain. I guess it relaxes the muscles before they get bad enough to spasm.
It is fun to get a little buzz when not in pain once a week. She said some of her other patients with back and muscle problems said it worked for them also.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,715 posts)out memories of my childhood, luckily I have no memories of my younger brother (He is a R - Asshole). But no really problems for the valium / hydrocone. They are 7.5mg hydrocodone and 10mg valium.. Pretty low dosage I think. Just enough to take once a week and lit back with music or movie marathon no driving though.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I live with a person with chronic pain, and there are days she can't even come out of her room. So no, physical therapy and exercise aren't nearly enough for everyone. This is a disastrous overreaction for many people who live with chronic pain.
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 16, 2016, 09:30 AM - Edit history (1)
but not all, and not all sufficiently.
For some people, it can come down to surgery (not always an option); painkillers; or living in agony.
I am lucky in that I don't suffer from chronic pain myself, but I know several people who do. My mother took the risk of major back surgery at age 88, to control her intolerable pain; the surgery was moderately successful, thank goodness; but is not appropriate to all cases.
Dying of painkillers is not a good outcome, but neither is committing suicide as a result of long-term intolerable pain. As a colleague of mine did, at the age of 50.
EllieBC
(3,013 posts)Yoga and meditation do nothing for pain caused by your vertebrae fusing together on their own.
DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)MissB
(15,805 posts)about my husband. His doctor used to give him a hard time about needing a 30 day prescription of Vicodin each month. When my husband turned 55, his doctor ordered an X-ray of his spine to check the progression of the disease.
His doctor no longer even blinks. It's advanced pretty rapidly. Our oldest was checked for the marker a few years ago when he complained of back pain, but he didn't inherit the gene. The youngest has never complained about back/hip pain so we're holding off until he sees any symptoms (if ever).
LTG
(216 posts)Her AS is affecting not only her spine but her shoulders, hips, knees and ankles. She suffers from chronic pain from that and a number of other medical issues that cause chronic pain She has limited mobility and exercising is really not an option that will have any appreciable impact on the pain. It also may be starting to possibly affect her heart function.
The extended release morphine and oxycodone make life bearable, but even they don't get rid of all the pain. No amount of Ibuprofen would make a dent, any more than yoga or meditation. She already is suffering with depression.
She was always very active and now it is mostly memories of things she loved. She loved her work as a nurse, and was one of the best. She loved to ski. She loved her horses and the show arena. She loves her grandchildren, and can't pick them up. But even with those losses and the break through pain she still manages to get some joy out of life.
She has been on some kind of pain killers for 40 years. She has never abused or misused them. The painkillers certainly haven't led to her death. Not having them just might. I feel great fear that the pain she has to endure might worsen. If it became more unbearable she could decide life isn't worth living. For me that would be an unbearable pain that no pill could relieve.
These guidelines make no sense and will surely cause a spike in suicides among those for whom the pain becomes unbearable with no effective alternative treatment. The bastards should all come down with a very painful, lifelong condition. At least they won't become addicted.
MissB
(15,805 posts)Until then, he will. His bones in his spine are growing together - used to be slow growth but it's picked up in pace as he's hit his mid-50s- thanks to ankylosing spondylitis. No amount of yoga will stop that from happening. Turns out it is incredibly painful. He isn't a candidate for the newer biologics.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)decided to follow "the new teaching" and cut back on her pain meds, although there was no reason to believe she'd been overmedicated.
After nearly two years of trying to get someone to do something about her pain, she committed suicide.
Dying from a lack of painkillers is also not a good thing.
greymouse
(872 posts)No, chronic intense pain is a whole nother animal. Only people who haven't experienced it think that sort of thing will help.
Warpy
(111,245 posts)and Jesus and a clean windshield didn't help at all.
I've managed to stay on a steady dose for 20 years, taking opiods daily but not continuously I don't get high. I don't enjoy them. I just get a few hours' relief during which I can get a few things done. Not taking them means sitting and staring at a wall because I just can't move. Get it yet?
Nobody likes opiods but the few screwballs out there who think they're fun. However, they're very necessary. The alternative to taking them is a combination of isolation, depression and finally, suicide. Get it?
Apparently the pain free bozos at the CDC who have been lunching with DEA bots don't.
DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)I'm not affected by this because opioids make me horribly sick, but I live with a daily pain level of 7-8 out of 10 every single day. How the hell are people like me supposed to survive without pain relief? And why does cancer pain beat out other forms of chronic pain?
RobinA
(9,888 posts)because telling a cancer patient to use yoga and medication for cancer pain would be considered by even most zealots as going too far. Cancer is, after all, a Real Disease. Other diseases, however, have a less effective PR department than cancer and can be meditated away by the strong minded.
DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)A woman I know had TWO ENTIRELY SEPARATE TERMINAL CANCERS. Two primary cancers, not metastases.
They had her on- I swear to god this is true- tramadol. And when she asked for better drugs they told her no. And when she asked for a referral to somebody who would give her better drugs they told her it was against policy. And when she tried to kill herself to escape the pain they reduced the dosage of her tramadol.
She was also housebound because she couldn't walk and they wouldn't authorize a wheelchair because they wanted her to go to physical therapy and strengthen her legs again, even though she was officially terminal.
It was astonishingly cruel all around.
Coventina
(27,101 posts)During the time my elderly dog was on Tramadol for arthritis, tramadol went from being a matter of routine to being something I had to sign for every time her prescription was renewed. Because, you know, my dog might be an addict or something.....
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)The complete policy failure to deal with the increase in opioid abuse fatalities couldn't be clearer. Stunning example of bureaucratic brain death.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)centers could communicate between each other regarding their patients it would help. If there was some way of testing usage levels it would help. But at this time no one has done anything to move us toward better treatment models.
Without a better treatment model it will always come down to distrusting the patient. It is all the professionals have to go on.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)to a treatment center for some can just be a way of get another dose. The fear is that without some form of testing and communication they will get an overdose that will kill them.
This is a hellish problem.
Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)I agree with not prescribing these painkillers lightly but for many people it's the only way of making life tolerable!
musiclawyer
(2,335 posts)It works. Forever, and it's strong if you needn't string and has no side effects but dry mouth in some cases. Vaping and edibles/drinks are the future of pain management. Vote Bernie. It will happen a lot faster that way
jwirr
(39,215 posts)back injury and is waiting for MN to allow use of weed. My grandson who is addicted to opiates uses MJ as a substitute and it helps him stay clean. I would love to try it for my arthritis.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)A couple of years ago I went to Oklahoma for a visit and, of course, had to leave my cannabis behind because it's like the death penalty or something if you get caught with it in OK. Anyway, I was there for 10 days and by Day 7 my fingers and toes were aching. By Day 10 I couldn't grasp the steering wheel. Got home, smoked a couple bowlfuls, by the next day I was fine. NOBODY can tell me it isn't good for arthritis
jwirr
(39,215 posts)get a good nights sleep.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)However, I find that I have a different affect if I smoke it rather than use edibles. The edibles make my mind race for some reason wherein the smoking gets through my bloodstream faster and seems to calm me so I can nod off.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)recreation but have not tried it since. Young grandson often brings a real good buy to let me smell it. How I wish we could get this legalized.
CTyankee
(63,903 posts)in the hospital being on vicodin had made me dependent and as I healed she decreased the dosage bit by bit. When I was pain free I didn't want the meds and didn't feel a need for them.
I now have shingles pain but my doc says opioids don't work on nerve pain. I am struggling along on Lyrica and Cymbalta. I now have post herpetic neuragia since it has been with me since early November. My husband is upset that I am often in such pain I have to postpone things I really don't want to miss. I want it to get better. I was in bed sick for Thanksgiving and missed Christmas with my grandkids entirely...
ccinamon
(1,696 posts)It's so hypocritical...30K are dying because of guns, 50K (if my memory is correct) are dying because of lack of funds to pay for medical care, 50K are dying because of medical mistakes and they care about 40 people a year? WTF?
I'm tired of my life being made more difficult and miserable to save a handful of people,,,,,, from opiods, to childproof drug containers and lighters...before taking care of the small deaths, let's take care of the big deaths!
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)For those that have never experienced long term chronic pain...that would have been my Mom.
At age 85, she lifted a box and had multiple Lumbar vertebrae (those vertebra in the very low spine, above the tail bone area) crack, crumble and break. She had VERY severe osteoporosis and had never had a bone density scan...from a couple of MRI's we found that she had huge "bites" out of her bones and spider web like fractures all over her spine. The doctors said that they had never seen such a thing and figured that she had been in pain for MANY years.
She had a cyphoplasty procedure done but that didn't really help (and was later determined to be a really bogus procedure).
THE only thing that helped with her pain was oxycodone and later Percoet. She took those for almost 9 years before she passed away. There was also a Fentanyl patch in the mix.
If she did not have the "opiate" for pain relief, she would have been out of her mind in pain. Her doctor was absolutely paranoid about the pills but knew that she had a consistent history (there had to be a couple small increases in dose as the body becomes adjusted, addicted if you will, to the dose) and that I was administering them. Hell, she even got drug tested every year! Can you imagine...a 93 year old having to give urine for a drug test.
So let me say...all this stuff, as they are promoting it (for doctors to avoid these medications) is crap! Telling someone to, Take a Tylenol, ain't killing that horrific pain. And what does the CDC suggest for pain...nada.
It makes me sick to my stomach to think of those that will suffer in torturous pain because of decisions like this.
Oh and in Mom's case...as a lifelong non smoker of anything...she certainly would not have done weed.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)is inviting death from liver toxicity.
But I expect that they think that's a more virtuous way to die.
I wouldn't do weed myself, as I suffered panic the one time I tried it, and actually have a phobia of it.
iscooterliberally
(2,860 posts)I tried to look this up, but I don't have time to read it all. I don't understand the parameters of what would be considered a drug related death. I have been prescribed opiates many many times. If you use them as directed, I don't see what the problem is. I have been physically dependent on them before. Withdrawal wasn't pleasant, but I'd take that over an alcohol hangover any day of the week. Maybe drug related deaths are over inflated? It sure seems that prescription drugs would be preferable to heroin, and if we take away a regulated substance, it will surely be replaced by a more dangerous unregulated one. It's not like opiates are going to just go away if doctors stop prescribing them.
jillan
(39,451 posts)stricter guidelines but do not punish those that need it!
Nictuku
(3,605 posts)People who abuse opioids are taking 5-10 (or more!) pills at a time. They are dying because of the tylenol accumulating (because they are trying to get high off of them - vs using them as most chronic pain users use them), as prescribed). This is just ridiculous. A few bad apples.....
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)There are fairly simple ways to remove the Tylenol.
24601
(3,959 posts)two major back surgeries, one medium-level disc decompression surgery and around 6 or 7 minor procedures under full anesthesia. The pharmacy goofed once and filled a 5 mg oxycodone at 30 mg. An hour after taking it, I threw up for 15 minutes. It was a good lesson in questioning all prescription appearance changes which are pretty common as pharmacies change suppliers rather than just trusting the label.
Over time, I cut back from oxycodone to one Norco, hydrocodone with tylenol, per 8 hours. What usually worked was one Carisoprodol (generic for Soma) muscle relaxant taken with a Norco. The dose was sufficient to keep me functional and low enough to keep me level-headed. Several years ago, my Dr. (and probably all pain specialists) started to get pressure - I believe from DEA regarding not just the Norco, but also the Carisoprodol.
Are there people who abuse these? No doubt there are and I'd speculate it happens not only when it's prescribed legally, but also from black market sales. I believe also that under-treatment of pain is just as widespread and is itself disabling and unfortunately some if these issues don't have good answers. Medical Marijuana isn't he answer, especially for moderate to severe pain from spinal/disc injuries.
Marthe48
(16,936 posts)He told his dr. several years ago and his dr. said 'some people get headaches.' My husband also has arthritis, a bad shoulder and other aches and pains because he worked hard since he was 12. So he took Ibuprofen to help manage the aches and pains. Also used heat and ice, massages, massage machines, different mattresses and pillows, and otc pain patches and muscle rubs. Now he has esophogeal ulcers, probably because he took so much ibuprofen. The drs. have taken their sweet time getting a diagnosis. He had been to the dr. 3 or 4 times in December and Jan. got some kind of medicine that coats his stomach in mid-January. He's lost over 20 lbs. He has Medicare and a supplemental medical insurance, but that doesn't seem to facilitate anything or motivate anybody to get him any treatment. It has been utter hell for the last 3 months and there is no end in sight. I just hope it isn't cancer. Thanks for reading.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)I had some minor pain (3-4 most days, 5-6 on bad days) in my lower back and found out that a disk had been damaged in an auto accident. I know that surgery for this kind of pain has only fair results. I was prescribed Lyrica for my fibro, and the back pain slowly left. I went off the Lyrica fora week or so, and it came roaring back. I don't know what Lyrica could do for long established pain, but I wanted to pass on my anecdote for what it's worth.
phylny
(8,379 posts)breast cancer surgery two years ago. I took it from Monday night through Friday. I was so worried about addiction (probably with no good reason behind my worry) that I tried stopping on Saturday, but had to start again Sunday and finally stopped on that Tuesaday, 8 days after surgery. I really don't think Ibuprofen could have handled the amount of pain I was in.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)Why are doctors such tools of the pharmaceutical industry?
Ace Rothstein
(3,160 posts)She's only 32 years old and her rheumatologist would only prescribe an opioid for the pain which she would like to avoid if possible since she is so young and hopefully has many years ahead of her. We live in Illinois and she requested a medical cannabis prescription as her condition qualifies here. He told her no.
Luckily her Family Physician said yes immediately when she inquired with him. He actually questioned why a rheumatologist would not prescribe the medical cannabis, considering that a large majority of patients that type of doctor see deals with considerable pain.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)In fact, some studies of "breakthrough" arthritis drugs have shown they are not more effective than advil, so I am not sure why so many people think they are miracle cures. Not to mention the fact that the drugs are so destructive that doctors have to prescribe a second drug just so people who take opiods can poop! And then probably those poop drugs will have another side effect that will require another drug to fix. And so on.
These drugs are not about curing patients. They are about making money. And I think that's why doctors are reluctant to prescribe cannabis -- there are no drugs reps handing out goodies and free trips to Cancun to promote cannabis the way there are with more profitable drugs.
ProfessorGAC
(65,000 posts)My wife's pain management doc (she has severe stenosis and calcification of the lower spine) wouldn't do it either. The form to fill out for MM in Illinois is kind of ridiculous. You have to have a doctor before you can fill out the form, but you need the form for the doctor to sign. That seems on purpose to me.
I have RA and MS, but am so stable i haven't had to ask.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)That's an odd claim.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)I completely read your post backwards; my bad!
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)I just hate that US healthcare is so influenced by former college cheerleaders peddling long-term meds and not patient-centered care and cures.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)RobinA
(9,888 posts)chronic pain, but I feel for you and this situation scares me. It could be any of us at any time. I suffered significant, but by no means debilitating, pain for 6 weeks when I broke my elbow and it was not casted. It wreaks havoc on mood and ability to live life, and that's even though I knew it would get better.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)Rather than understanding the cause, they make an authoritarian decision. FFS, what world do I live in anymore.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)CDC recommendations are to prescribe pain medications only after considering non-addictive pain relievers, behavioral changes and other options. Most docs do that already.
Further the recommendations specifically exclude those being treated for cancer and I am sure other exceptions will follow.
It does mean docs will be hesitant to prescribe opiods right away, but it doesn't say an doc couldn't perform a thorough evaluation, document the circumstances and decide an opiod is the only treatment likely to work.
If you've ever been in an ER on a Friday night and listened to that addicts coming in with excuses for a pain med, you'd know what is going on. Then, the nurse walks in with a specimen cup and says the doc wants to do a urine screen before prescribing anything. The patient will jump up and leave before the nurse finishes talking.
I do fear some folks who really need meds will be delayed. I suspect legitimate pain specialists will be ones best bet to get adequate treatment.
But, I have been in the ER several times and you can hear what's going on in adjacent cubbies. Anyone in severe pain gets treated like an addict. Then the doctors go off and laugh.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)an addict. Even then, docs can easily give a three day supply and tell them to see a physician. The addicts will just go somewhere else when the 3 days are up. The none addicted will go to the doctor who has supposedly been properly prescribing narcotics.
A simple, immediate urine drug screen is going to make it pretty clear if someone is abusing multiple drugs. If it's a single drug -- that might have been legitimately prescribed -- then most docs are going to evaluate the patient. But, someone who has legitimately been prescribed a medication is not likely to suddenly run out on a Friday night unless they are abusing the prescription or selling them to others.
Obviously, there are exceptions. With that said, addiction is not something to dismiss either.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)We know for example that there is a serious racial bias in whose pain is taken seriously: A study looked at kids with appendicitis who were seen in the ER. There is absolutely no debate about the proper way to treat them: you give them opiates as soon as they are diagnosed because they are in pain. White kids were nearly three times as likely as black kids to receive opiates in the ER for appendicitis. All kids received opiates at an unaccountably low rate, because opiates are absolutely the standard of care for appendicitis.
And that was children, where you'd expect bullshit judgments about their history or their worthiness to be least at play.
greymouse
(872 posts)from what I've seen, they just assume anyone who says they are in severe pain is a drug seeker.
I'm not talking about someone who shows up saying they've run out of a prescription. That person could all their doctor previously.
I'm talking about someone whose undiagnosed illness suddenly goes into the stratosphere, or who has a major accident.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)At least based on my experience with a kidney stone last year.
They didn't even take a urine sample until I'd been there nearly 4 hours. When they did, I had peed mostly blood. I got a prescription for worthless ibuprofen, and 2 tablets of 5 mg Hydrocodone, and the doctors, nurses, and other staff were about as compassionate as street thugs.
Based on my recent experiences, I've got zero regard for medical professionals. At least the ones around here.
I understand concern about addiction, but they could still try to behave as if they were human beings.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)to get him through the day. He mentioned that his doctor mentioned changes coming regarding prescriptions for opioids. Among his options are having a device implanted in his back that is a small morphine pump that pumps small amounts of morphine directly to the spine (if I understood him correctly ).He has has a device that delivers small electrical shocks that supposedly short circuit pain receptors implanted for years that has provided at best limited relief.
greymouse
(872 posts)For everyone who supports this, I wish them a lifetime of chronic pain and no opioids.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)What is it specifically about the US that makes us incapable of addressing chronic pain without using 80% of the world's opioids, and 99% of the world's hydrocodone?
greymouse
(872 posts)Curious about this, I went out onto the web and found data for the US and Denmark, my ancestral country. I looked at morphine use per capita and they are almost identical.
http://www.painpolicy.wisc.edu/sites/www.painpolicy.wisc.edu/files/country_files/morphine/unitedstatesofamerica_morphine.pdf
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Oxycodone is where we're king
http://www.painpolicy.wisc.edu/sites/www.painpolicy.wisc.edu/files/global_oxycodone.pdf
But, yeah, your own links show that we use 80% of total non-methadone opioids. What are we doing wrong with pain management that everybody else can get by on the remaining 20%?
greymouse
(872 posts)Take a look at the ----per capita--- links I supplied. It's identical for the latest year, 2013, for the US and Denmark.
I'm not taking about some place like Africa, where meds of all kinds are in very short supply.
Making a non-per capita comparison or outside developed nations is bogus.
ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)Take my morphine away and I end my life the next day. Simple as that. I have been taking opiods for three years, starting with Norco's then to percocets then to morphine and percocets now. I never take more than my dose and sometimes (lately not often however) take less.
The truth is without them, I would not be able to live. The pain is so intense and fixing my problem seems very far away.
Worried senior
(1,328 posts)along with spinal stenosis after having a spinal fusion as a teenager. He had a staff infection after that and took 10 years to recover from that, he received cobalt treatments which didn't work but his hip eventually lost all blood flow so he has had one reconstruction and five replacements on that hip alone. He eventually had to have the other one replaced so he has that to contend with. All the scar tissue has caused the stenosis and no dr. wants to touch him so he lives on hydro-condone, 3-4 a day.
My feelings are that if they don't want to give the medications for chronic pain they had better come with some valuable treatments and cures.
All they do is throw medications at people, making the drug companies rich and doing little or nothing for the rest of us.
He already has to have drug tests or his medications counted to make sure he's not giving them to someone else.
Heard a dr. on t.v. this morning that said chronic back pain should not be treated this way, wonder if she's ever had chronic back pain, some people are on their hands and knees in pain. I'm sure they'll be happy to hear they don't need any stronger medications.
Coventina
(27,101 posts)The suspicious part of me also recognizes that opiates are cheap and not under patent law, so there isn't a lot of money to be made on them per dose.
New, fancy meds however.....
The sad part is, none of the newer meds seem to be as effective as the old standby, our friend the poppy.....
Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)That's the opiate in Vicodin. And that's no typo: 99 freaking percent! And we use 80% of the world's supply of opiates in general.
This is a real public health problem. We've got to figure out better ways to manage pain in this country and get off the pills.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Australia and Canada are at 100mg, Norway at 50. The entire rest of the world is at 10 and below.
cannabis_flower
(3,764 posts)A few years ago I started having pain in my right knee. I went to a doctor who someone recommended and he did an MRI and told me I had a bruised bone and to try and stay off of it (right - how do you do that?) and it would be okay after about a month.
Well, I was in so much pain that I called and they said to take Tylenol and I did that and it didn't help. I called the doctor and they finally let me have some Vicodin . I was hobbling around with a cane for about a month and my friends kept telling me to go to another doctor to get a second opinion. So I went to the second doctor and told him about the pain, told him about the other doctor, told him about the pain medicine and when it was prescribed (about 27 days before that). I didn't know how I had injured myself, I just woke up one day and it hurt. Well he made me sign a pain management agreement and gave me a prescription for 90 Vicodins and sent me on my way.
Well, my friend took me to the Walgreen's - the same Walgreen's that I got the first prescription at and they balked and called the doctor and he called the other doctor and they both decided that I couldn't have them. I called and cried, I was in a lot of pain. They finally decided I could have them and called Walgreen's.
I was taking one in the morning so that I could get to my seat at work and one at night so that I could sleep without moving my knee and sending myself into terrible pain. This went on for about a week until I forgot to take my pill one morning. I hurt going across the parking lot at work. It was so bad I decided to call the doctor and make another appointment but he was on vacation and referred me to his on-call doctor. I called and made an appointment but at break time I got up and couldn't put any weight on my knee at all and had to be taken to the hospital where they gave me a shot of some kind of pain reliever and a stronger prescription and told me to see my doctor.
This doctor was different. He took an x-ray of my knee and said I had significant arthritis in my knee. He gave me a cortisone shot, ordered a knee brace and gave me a prescription for Meloxicam and told me to only take it if I needed it. I was much better in one day. He didn't assume that since he couldn't see my pain it didn't exist and I was just some kind of pill addict looking for pills. I needed something for the pain. I didn't need Opiods, but I didn't know what other options there were. The doctors are supposed to know, but if they assume you are a pill addict and don't take you seriously and do the right tests you end up in pain for a lot longer than necessary.
He told me I would need knee surgery in 5 years if I didn't lose weight. I eventually had weigh loss surgery and lost 85 pounds. I still have some knee pain. At one point I went to another doctor (my insurance changed and didn't pay for this one anymore) who prescribed me Diclofenac 75mg. I took it when I needed it. Currently I don't have insurance but my husband is from Honduras and he has a doctor there who sends us something called Dolo-Neurobion. In the US this medicine has Tylenol and B vitamins. In Central America it has 25mg of Diclofenac and B vitamins. It works great, much better than Tylenol. I have gotten to where I only need it occasionally, usually less than twice a day. The Vicodins sat in my medicine cabinet a couple of years until I finally threw them away.
hunter
(38,311 posts)... yep, that'll make the world a better place.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Yet all they did was increase the price of smokes. Our country is so fucked up when it comes to priorities. The government puts a moral value on certain drugs and then ignores something that kills 1000 times over, by slapping a bigger tax on it.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)or a bullet to the brain that many chronic pain suffers will resort to now that they will not have access to said opioids.
Once again, they are throwing the baby out with the bathtub.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Anything that makes life more bearable for people is automatically demonized.
Recently I found out I had arthritis in the knee after ending up in the hospital with severe knee pain to where I could barely stand or walk. I spend 3 weeks in a lot of pain with nothing but tylenol or ibuprophen. It sucked.
ellenrr
(3,864 posts)In a study published in the current issue of the Journal of Neuroscience, a team led by Fadel Zeidan, Ph.D., assistant professor of neurobiology and anatomy at Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center, reports that mindfulness meditation does not employ the endogenous opioid system to reduce pain.
...
This study adds to the growing body of evidence that something unique is happening with how meditation reduces pain. These findings are especially significant to those who have built up a tolerance to opiate-based drugs and are looking for a non-addictive way to reduce their pain.
http://www.wakehealth.edu/News-Releases/2016/Mindfulness_Meditation_Provides_Opioid-Free_Pain_Relief,_Study_Finds.htm
(re-posted from Buddhism forum)
~~~~~~~~~~~
also see, http://www.wakehealth.edu/News-Releases/2015/Mindfulness_Meditation_Trumps_Placebo_in_Pain_Reduction.htm
Nov. 13, 2015 Scientists at Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center have found new evidence that mindfulness meditation reduces pain more effectively than placebo.
This is significant because placebo-controlled trials are the recognized standard for demonstrating the efficacy of clinical and pharmacological treatments.
The research, published in the Journal of Neuroscience, showed that study participants who practiced mindfulness meditation reported greater pain relief than placebo. Significantly, brain scans showed that mindfulness meditation produced very different patterns of activity than those produced by placebo to reduce pain.
We were completely surprised by the findings, said Fadel Zeidan, Ph.D., assistant professor of neurobiology and anatomy at Wake Forest Baptist and lead investigator of the study. While we thought that there would be some overlap in brain regions between meditation and placebo, the findings from this study provide novel and objective evidence that mindfulness meditation reduces pain in a unique fashion.