Bernie Sanders On the Panama Papers: Told You So

[pantsonfire]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by mcar (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Wired

Back in 2011, Bernie Sanders told the Senate that Panama was “a world leader when it comes to allowing large corporations and wealthy Americans to evade US taxes.”

This week, those words are sounding eerily prophetic, and the Sanders campaign, for one, would like to remind you of that fact.

“I was opposed to the Panama Free Trade Agreement from day one,” Sanders said in a statement today. “I wish I had been proven wrong about this, but it has now come to light that the extent of Panama’s tax avoidance scams is even worse than I had feared.”

Read more: http://www.wired.com/2016/04/bernie-sanders-panama-papers-told/

[Peace Patriot]

1. Sanders was prophetic on the Iraq War and the chaos that would be unleashed there.

He was prophetic on what would happen with "free trade for the rich" in Panama. Prophetic in almost uncanny detail in both cases. He knew EXACTLY what could and would go wrong.

Allow me a little bluster: Leftists = smart people. People who THINK THINGS THROUGH.

Time to put Leftists back in charge of our government, before our Corporate Rulers finish clusterfucking this country, every other country and the only habitable planet we know about.

[Dustlawyer]

14. The thing is, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure those things out.

All it takes is some hard work reading and listening. Oh, I almost forgot, it also takes a very rare quality that very few in Washington have, honesty and incorruptibility!

[Peace Patriot]

25. You have a point, but context does matter.

If everyone around you is dishonest and corrupt--as surely Sanders must feel in our 8%-approval-rating Congress--and furthermore downright moronic, in many cases, and utterly, filthily, totally corrupt in many others, and not used to thinking about anything but their hairdo's and makeup for the cameras, it might be a bit hard to concentrate and stay focused on the reality beyond the "Matrix" in which you work.

Yeah, some of us--or even a lot of us--out here in the bathtubs that are draining our life energy away--might start to grasp things as they are. It's not hard to see what a fix we are in. But inside the "Matrix"? Not so much.

This is actually one of the things that makes me marvel at Bernie Sanders. He sees it all clearly from the inside.

And, yeah, for sure, honesty and incorruptibility. But it's a marvel that anyone can maintain those qualities in that context.

[FighttheFuture]

43. No, but it appears to take a honest politician with guts and integrity to do so!

That's why I support Bernie Sanders!!

[kristopher]

47. +1+1+1+1+1+1 (you get the idea!)

[Betty Karlson]

34. Given Sanders' EXCELLENT foreign policy experience/ judgement,

maybe we should prefer him over the candidate who got everything wrong and then some?

[chapdrum]

2. Hillary was all over this, too.

And Hussein had WMD.

[MisterP]

18. but nine eleveeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN

[BainsBane]

3. The guy who announced job losses "aren't my problem"

Last edited Tue Apr 5, 2016, 11:27 PM - Edit history (2)

Said "I told you so." http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/bernie-sanderss-rough-ride-with-the-daily-news/476919/
The guy who brushed off concerns about the impact on lending of his own proposals to break up banks by saying "I don't run Chase Morgan." But now he says, "I told you so." How is it he manages to profess such foresight on everything but what he himself proposes? Maybe some of his believers can tell me why he refuses to apply any of this insight into his own policies?

It must be a relief for Sanders and his supporters to believe that rich people never stashed money offshore before 2011. All those IRS grace periods for repatriating money that existed for absolutely no reason. And poor Mitt Romney, just like Bernie he was maliciously hounded to release his taxes when it turns out rich people like him never ever stashed money overseas until Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and the rest of the evil Democratic Party thought promoting US business was a good idea. Clearly the only legitimate goal is to destroy an industry that generates 58% of US GDP in order to satisfy the anger of the upper 20 percent that they don't have quite as much as the upper 1 percent.


Vote for Bernie. You might lose your job, but that's not his problem.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-bernie-sanders-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2588306

[DrBulldog]

5. Has your condition been diagnosed?

[alcina]

12. Dear Doctor,

You just made my day.

[Eleanors38]

50. Well, Gunneria has become widespread in some Primary posts.

[BainsBane]

20. What you consider mental illness

Is my constitutional right as an American to criticize elected leaders and to vote as I please. As much as you feel that Bernie should have access to enormous power without facing criticism, vetting, or showing he even cares about how he might enact the proposals he has built a campaign on, I disagree. My right to disagree, and that that of every citizen, is exponentially more important than the career of any politician. Your comment makes clear that your own values could not be more different, which is no doubt how you are able to justify supporting a campaign whose explicit political strategy is to overturn the results of popular elections and install a man in power against the will of the people. http://www.ibtimes.com/bernie-sanders-fantasy-campaign-hopes-win-hillary-clintons-pledged-delegates-unlikely-2338452

[RANGERMAN89]

31. Bahahahhaha...Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq war...

The patriot act, NAFTA...go ahead and disagree with him I'll continue to hate Clinton with every fiber of my being for being tricked by the biggest Idiot ever G.W Bush into authorizing the DEATH of my friends for a lie.

[green917]

37. amen!

I couldn't agree more. I cant support her for the same reason.

[PatV]

42. ??"...which is no doubt how you are able to justify supporting a campaign whose explicit

political strategy is to overturn the results of popular elections and install a man in power against the will of the people."

Huh? Who's will?

Hillary people are so bizarre. The will of the people is shown in the VOTES OF THE PEOPLE. The superdelegates show the complete corruption and deal making of our corrupt voting process.

___
Debbie Wasserman Schultz has no clue: Superdelegates are everything that’s wrong with the Democratic Party
Are these Democratic VIPs protecting the establishment or encouraging grass roots activism? The DNC can't decide
MICHAEL WINSHIP, BILLMOYERS.COM

These superdelegate VIPs are chosen not by the voters in this year’s primaries or caucuses but selected by the party solely for their status as members of the Democratic upper crust. As we wrote last week, Wasserman Schultz recently told CNN’s Jake Tapper that their appointment is necessary so entitled incumbents and party leaders don’t have to run for the position “against grassroots activists.”

(Just a few weeks later, though, in an interview with Maria Bartiromo on Fox Business Network, Wasserman Schultz swung her logic ’round 180 degrees. The superdelegates exist, she now declared, “to make sure that party activists who want to be delegates to the convention don’t have to run against much better-known and well-established people at the district level.” So which is it? Neither really makes total sense.)


And in late February, Jeff Naft at ABC News reported, “… When you remove elected officials from the superdelegate pool, at least one in seven of the rest are former or current lobbyists registered on the federal and state level, according to lobbying disclosure records. That’s at least 67 lobbyists who will attend the convention as superdelegates.” A majority of that 67 say they’re supporting Hillary Clinton.

Last summer, Wasserman Schultz’s Democratic National Committee lifted a ban on lobbyists making donations to cover the costs of convention-related events, a precursor to the DNC’s February rollback of Barack Obama’s ban on contributions to the party from political action committees and federal lobbyists.

http://www.salon.com/2016/04/03/debbie_wasserman_schultz_makes_no_sense_what_is_the_point_of_the_superdelegate_system_partner/

___

[pantsonfire]

6. This seems a little off topic....

"Who expressed brushed off concerns about the impact of his own proposals to break up banks on lending by saying "I don't run Chase Morgan."

Perhaps because no one took his serious proposals seriously?

[BainsBane]

17. "No one took his proposals seriously"

The no one you are talking about is Bernie himself. It is his interview with the editorial board and it is he who hasn't taken his own proposals seriously enough to think through how he would implement them or what their results might be. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=91658

I don't find that exactly a selling point for a candidate. I think being president is actually pretty damn serious.

[pantsonfire]

23. You're taking my comment out of context...n/t

[bvar22]

48. "It is not necessary to see the whole staircase,

...just take the first step."--- Dr. Martin Luther King

That first step is Bernie Sanders.

[draa]

10. Heh.

Vote for Clinton. You might lose your business, home, or life, but that's not her problem.

Considering she took money from criminal bankers I'm not sure how you can say anything.

She took money from people who stole $20T in 2008. I lost a business and the people that caused it paid Hillary Clinton with my money. Mine and millions like me. And yet you'll willingly vote to screw the next group that her friends decide to rob. Good for you.

[BainsBane]

21. Sanders has taken money from those same banks

You fault Clinton for taking money from banks, but Bernie Sanders has been hosting fundraisers with Wall Street big wigs ever since he entered the senate. He has pretended not to take money from Wall Street or to have super pacs, but the fact he is does. http://time.com/4261350/bernie-sanders-super-pac-alaska-millenials/ http://www.wsj.com/articles/sanders-record-filings-show-benefits-from-super-pacs-links-to-wall-street-donors-1455300881 http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/05/politics/sanders-democratic-fundraisers/

Bernie has built a campaign around slogans that do not hold up to scrutiny. He has deliberately made the issue of campaign finance small, trivialized it by pretending the entire thing rests of Clinton earning money from speeches to Goldman Sachs, like this one:

If, however, one cares about more than demonizing Clinton in order to promote Bernie's career and/or GOP electoral prospects, then one has to examine policy. The fact is, Clinton takes that policies about both campaign finance reform and financial regulation FAR more seriously than Sanders, as is evidenced by her substantive policy positions: https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/plan-raise-american-incomes/
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/wall-street/
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/campaign-finance-reform/

She also seeks to promote small business, something Bernie has paid no attention to: https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/small-business/


Clinton didn't announce before an editorial board that people losing businesses, jobs, or access to credit wasn't her problem. Bernie just did. He demonstrated he really doesn't care. http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-bernie-sanders-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2588306


If the actual issue is campaign finance reform, Bernie falls short for a number of reasons, principally because he has shown himself unwilling to follow the law as it currently exists and has been cited by the FEC with a staggering, record number of violations. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511645580
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511628659

I happen to believe policy--actually making concrete changes to improve the country--matter more than campaign slogans, even those by Sanders, that tap so successfully into the understandable anger many Americans feel about the economic collapse of the 2008 and the uneven recovery since. However, that collapse was due to GOP policies under Bush, not Hillary Clinton's speeches or fundraising. Ultimately, if the goal is to change the situation, talk alone won't do it. Sanders demonstrates that he doesn't take his own campaign slogans seriously enough to develop specific policies that deal with the problems he identifies. His interview before the NY Daily News Editorial board shows that quite clearly. http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-bernie-sanders-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2588306 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/05/this-new-york-daily-news-interview-was-pretty-close-to-a-disaster-for-bernie-sanders/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/bernie-sanderss-rough-ride-with-the-daily-news/476919/

I think the future of the country too important to ignore policy in favor of campaign slogans.

[EdwardBernays]

26. This

Is like you accidentally left on the Clinton Meme Generator overnight and then just though "f@ck it, I'll just click 'Post my reply!'"

Lol

[draa]

28. Oh my God,

the nurses used $1.5 million to help Sanders so he's now a liar and everything he stands for is a failure? Get fucking real. Nobody gives a shit about that. By the way, David Fucking Brock is on your team so, as far as PACS go, your candidate clearly wins for shitty ass PACS. David Fucking Brock ensures that. Hahaha.

And if you can show me where Bernie made millions giving speeches to criminals then I'm willing to listen. If you can show me where he's taken money from them this cycle I'll listen. You can't because it didn't happen.

As far as fundraisers for Democrats, or Super PACS, so what? Did any of the people who gave money to Sanders during those fundraisers pay him personally for anything? Did he fly to their headquarters and give $250k speeches for one hour's work? Did Sanders, or his spouse, make money giving speeches to any groups that had a hand in 2008's collapse? That would be NO to all of those. Comparing fundraising to getting paid millions for speeches is ridiculous and makes people who do so look like idiots.

[freebrew]

30. + A Lot!...

and welcome to the madness.

[snort]

40. I am NOT putting you on ignore.

Way too entertaining. Wow.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

22. Pardon, but this thread is about Hillary Clinton's two-pronged culpability. It's not about Sanders.

Do you have anything to say about this thread and the corrupt, compulsive liar of a candidate in question?

[intrepidity]

4. Just curious as to how many things

HRC can claim "told you so" about?

[olddad56]

7. probably only her husbands infidelity.

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. ROFL! OMG!

[Babel_17]

8. Causing an uproar in Britain now, as well as Iceland

Last edited Tue Apr 5, 2016, 09:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Yeah, it's good to not be on the wrong side of the record on this. Britain being such an important ally, and its media mostly understandable to Americans, lol, I expect we'll be hearing a lot about this.

In and of itself it's an important story. That it affects the leaders of nations will ensure we'll be hearing much more.

[tabasco]

11. Like a voice crying in the wilderness.

Finally, people are listening to him.

[frylock]

13. Has Hillary tweeted a statement about the Panama Papers yet?

[Dustlawyer]

15. "You mean like copy paper or paperwork to go to Panama?"

"I just wipe them with a rag like this (demonstrating)!"

[frylock]

16. Like the newspapers in Panama? Those papers?

?w=650

[Dustlawyer]

19. YES!!!

[Sunlei]

24. name the exposed Americans please.

[hopemountain]

27. he also named North Korea

as our country and the worlds greatest threat during one of the recent debates. is anyone paying attention? china and russia both have been increasingly tolerant of north korean's build ups.

[RANGERMAN89]

32. Yah and he did that right before they detonated their..

Largest nuke yet.

[ConsiderThis_2016]

29. Remember at the first debate in NH?

When asked whom he was more concerned with, Russia, Iran or N. Korea. He said N. Korea because they're so isolated and unpredictable. A few days later and they fired a rocket and now look whats going on with N. Korea... The others said Iran and Russia I believe, I have to review that NH Dem debate again. The famous "Enough with the damn Emails" debate.

[SammyWinstonJack]

35. +1000000

[hollowdweller]

36. Makes it hard to question his judgment

He's been in so long that he's taken a stand on so many things and the stands he has taken are basically in line with most of the democratic grassroots. Well even a lot of the republican grassroots.

[disillusioned73]

38. Mr. Sanders...

it seems is always (at least on the HUUUGE issues) on the right side of history.. I salute you sir

[SHRED]

39. Quite a contrast ...

[Helen Borg]

41. Wonder if a certain big name will show up on those lists?

[ViseGrip]

44. I will rec this daily! 36 TRILLION DOLLARS ALL HIDDEN.

I just paid my taxes.....bas-turds.

[AlbertCat]

45. Is Hillary still evolving on the issue?

Jess askin'

[AlbertCat]

46. B-b-but Sanders has never accomplished anything....

.... except being correct for about 30 years, unlike some Goldwater-DOMA-NAFTA-Iraq War-girl.

[NCjack]

49. Hillary delivered the US-Panama Trade Treaty. Gee, thanks a lot.