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elljay

(1,178 posts)
Mon May 2, 2016, 01:00 PM May 2016

No selfies in voting booth, West Virginia says

Source: CBS News

" If you want to share your voting experience on social media, you'll have to find some way other than taking a photo in the voting booth. West Virginia Secretary of State Natalie E. Tennant says it's forbidden.

Tennant said in a news release Friday that it's illegal to photograph any part of the voting process, and no electronic devices or cellphones are allowed in the voting booth."



Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/no-selfies-in-voting-booth-west-virginia-says/




This sounds innocuous at first, but is not. I posted this in LBN because of the profound implications this news has for our Presidential election (feel free to move it if there is a more appropriate forum). If no photos are allowed in voting booths, then voters will not be able to document if/when the machines "misbehave" and report votes other than those actually made by the voter. This is a VERY dangerous trend that needs to be stamped out immediately before it spreads to other states. We already have grave concerns, based on experience, that our votes are not being correctly recorded. We must be able to take the photos that document any voting fraud if we have any hope to fix our broken system.
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No selfies in voting booth, West Virginia says (Original Post) elljay May 2016 OP
It is meant to keep people from selling their vote. Renew Deal May 2016 #1
When voting in person? elljay May 2016 #3
This doesn't belong in LBN. PSPS May 2016 #2
As I said elljay May 2016 #6
I want to thank you for posting this here. It was important to see it. Judi Lynn May 2016 #10
Thanks elljay May 2016 #12
Why not? It's an article from this morning and it's news to me?. lostnfound May 2016 #8
Wouldn't pictures not including the person rock May 2016 #4
I think they were trying to be "trendy" elljay May 2016 #5
Ha! rock May 2016 #7
If you are in a private booth who is going to stop you taking pictures unless someone is in kimbutgar May 2016 #9
Let's imagine elljay May 2016 #11
It's going to take numbers to crush this stupidity. The masses ignore the law, have proof of vote nc4bo May 2016 #14
Ok, let's say it's a crime cannabis_flower May 2016 #18
That's what I would do elljay May 2016 #19
Where I vote there is no private booth. Lars39 May 2016 #16
Another legalizing Election Fraud ALEC law Dont call me Shirley May 2016 #13
This has been the law in CA for as long as I've been a poll worker, at least. LeftyMom May 2016 #15
They Put Those Outside The Place In Illinois Too ProfessorGAC May 2016 #20
I took a pic of my primary ballot this year bigwillq May 2016 #17
There shouldn't be selfies. If there are, then you could potentially sell your vote. nt silvershadow May 2016 #21
Cutting Off the Right to Spite the Alienability Redness May 2016 #22
Your first sentence says it all! elljay May 2016 #23

elljay

(1,178 posts)
3. When voting in person?
Mon May 2, 2016, 01:12 PM
May 2016

There may be a vote selling problem in Appalachia, but all this law will do is to keep people from committing fraud at the booth. They are still free to do it via absentee ballot, which seems to be the preferred method in W. Virginia. It will, however, prevent people from proving that their vote was flipped.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/selling-votes-is-common-type-of-election-fraud/2012/10/01/f8f5045a-071d-11e2-81ba-ffe35a7b6542_story.html

Judi Lynn

(160,449 posts)
10. I want to thank you for posting this here. It was important to see it.
Mon May 2, 2016, 06:53 PM
May 2016

If they pull this off, they are committing a crime against US citizens, they are stealing their freedom to verify their own votes in order to prove their votes WERE counted.

As I have always understood it, it's supposed to be everyone's right to both vote, and to have that vote counted.

Thank you, elljay, this is most certainly LBN.

elljay

(1,178 posts)
12. Thanks
Mon May 2, 2016, 07:51 PM
May 2016

I care not where it is posted, just want the word out there. It is not possible to be too paranoid about our voting rights after what we have seen this primary season!




rock

(13,218 posts)
4. Wouldn't pictures not including the person
Mon May 2, 2016, 01:13 PM
May 2016

be snapshots, not selfies? That's how me and the dictionary see it.

elljay

(1,178 posts)
5. I think they were trying to be "trendy"
Mon May 2, 2016, 02:54 PM
May 2016

by calling it selfies. According to the article, the law prohibits taking photos of any part of the voting process, which would include a screen registering a vote for Bush when you actually pushed the button for Obama.

kimbutgar

(21,054 posts)
9. If you are in a private booth who is going to stop you taking pictures unless someone is in
Mon May 2, 2016, 06:38 PM
May 2016

The booth with you breathing over your shoulder? I don't see this as enforceable.

elljay

(1,178 posts)
11. Let's imagine
Mon May 2, 2016, 07:47 PM
May 2016

you push the button for Dem. The screen shows a vote for Trump. You snap a photo secretly then call over the poll officials to complain. They say they can't do anything. Now you have a dilemma- if you publish your photo or show it to election officials, you have admitted to a crime. Photos are the best way to document vote flipping and we will really need to be vigilant this November.

nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
14. It's going to take numbers to crush this stupidity. The masses ignore the law, have proof of vote
Mon May 2, 2016, 11:29 PM
May 2016

Flipping. BOE inundated with evidence from hundreds or thousands of people.

They won't do a darned thing.

I say call their bluff, takemthe photos but TURN OFF THE FLASH!!


cannabis_flower

(3,764 posts)
18. Ok, let's say it's a crime
Tue May 3, 2016, 08:08 AM
May 2016

You take the picture. You are charged, convicted. You appeal. I bet the ACLU or some other organization will take the case Pro Bono. It needs to be challenged if it prevents a person from proving his vote was switched.

elljay

(1,178 posts)
19. That's what I would do
Tue May 3, 2016, 11:33 AM
May 2016

But I am an attorney and know how the system works and what the consequences would be. The decision is not so simple for most people who may not have the ability to go through such a fight. Like a whistleblower, we should have the absolute right to document election fraud without fear of criminal prosecution.

Lars39

(26,106 posts)
16. Where I vote there is no private booth.
Tue May 3, 2016, 07:46 AM
May 2016

It's 3 machines in a row on pedestals with *very* short privacy screens on 3 sides of each macine. The person helping has been known to walk behind while people vote.
The machine are also placed so that voters are facing those in line. Privacy? <snort>

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
15. This has been the law in CA for as long as I've been a poll worker, at least.
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:47 AM
May 2016

No photographs, no recording inside the polling place. We have a sign to remind people in our kit, goes on or near the door.

Redness

(18 posts)
22. Cutting Off the Right to Spite the Alienability
Wed May 4, 2016, 08:30 PM
May 2016

The law makes it harder to sell votes by making it easier to steal them. The insanity of such a policy is still clearer when one considers that vote-selling is at worst a (benign) symptom of an undemocratic system. Just as the sale of organs does not create the dire situation in which one's organs are less useful than their price, but rather marginally improves while shockingly revealing it, exploitative vote-selling (in a true democracy, votes would sell for GDP/population, but presumably we're taking about America) exposes a fraudulent democracy while fully compensating the seller's loss of electoral power with an increase in purchasing power (the purest form of obedience to "It's the Economy, Stupid&quot .

Ironically, the vote's anonymity, which prohibits not only selling but also trading, is one of the reasons electoral votes are so worthless in the first place. The elected face no such restrictions. They trade votes all the time (without which even less would get done than what currently does) and have far greater incentive to sell them. If Gore and Nader voters had traded (the honor system doesn't count), Gore would have won. Instead, Gore voters in safe states and Nader voters in swing states only realized their vote's negligible use-value. Even outside of Electoral College peculiarities, some's political interests are more local than others', and the inability to trade replaces democracy with randomocracy as indifferent votes are weighted equally with others. Compromise candidates, too, would fair better, promoting stability.

Another problem with anonymous voting is that it enables people to harm each other (by proxy) without the natural consequences, and denies them the social benefits of proof that they voted in a socially responsible way. But some call that "coercion", as if to vote were not to select a coercer.

elljay

(1,178 posts)
23. Your first sentence says it all!
Wed May 4, 2016, 08:50 PM
May 2016

"The law makes it harder to sell votes by making it easier to steal them."

Well said.

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