UK mosques ask women to shun Facebook, trousers: Report

[MariaThinks]

Source: Times of India

ONDON: Many mosques in the UK propagate extremely strict rules of conduct for women, asking them to delete their Facebook accounts, not to leave their houses without their husbands' permission, and to avoid wearing trousers, a research report released on Friday said.

The research conducted by 'The Times' showed rulings published by mosques and Islamic associations around Britain. Under a section titled 'Islamic articles', the Croydon Mosque and Islamic Centre in London published a document - 'Advice for the husband and wife'. Written by a mufti at the mosque, it says, "A woman should seek her husband's permission when leaving the house and should not do so without his knowledge".

The Central Masjid of Blackburn in northwest England has published a web post called 'Dangers of Facebook'. It cites a quotation from the Quran about the sin of alcohol, and applies it to the social network. "Facebook has opened the doors for sin. Muslim girls and women alike have become prey to this evil," it says. It describes the social media website as a "vicious network". The Green Lane Masjid in Birmingham tells one woman worshipper that wearing trousers is not permitted even in front of her husband. Trousers show off "the details of her body. The ones who wear trousers are men, and the Prophet cursed women who imitate men," a post by the mosque quoting an Islamic scholar reads.

Read more: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/UK-mosques-ask-women-to-shun-Facebook-trousers-Report/articleshow/52154328.cms

[Ilsa]

1. At first I was skeptical, but

this type of pronouncement from a mosque, to be applied to European Muslim women, makes me concerned that their misogynistic patriarchy is trying to change local culture. They moved to Europe; they should adapt, not expect european muslim women to revert back to the values of the home of their religion.

[Bad Dog]

3. Consider the source.

And the OP. She is a virulent Islamophobe who trawls the net looking for stories from dubious sources that portray Islam in a bad light. And the Times Of India is hardly a reliable source when talking about Islam.

A more representative view of Islam in Britain is the Labour mayoral candidate Sadiq Khan who looks like winning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadiq_Khan

[MariaThinks]

5. reporting facts makes someone an islamophobe. I'm not actually.

but we've been down this path. You should put me on ignore

[Bad Dog]

7. You don't report facts.

You report opinion from dubious sources. You know nothing about Islam in Britain, or Britain for that matter.

Btw, I wasn't talking to you, just letting other people know what sort of person you are.

[MariaThinks]

12. that's very racist for you to call the Times of India a dubious source. Do you have proof?

also, I often find the same column on the Times of India and CNN. I guess you think CNN is okay?

again, very racist to keep saying that about the Times of India.

[snooper2]

58. So do you agree that the women should get off the net and put some pants on....or not

Pretty simple question...

[leftynyc]

19. They will protect that

misogynistic religion that asks western cultures to bow to them as long and as hard as they can. I thank the lucky stars there are those like you that will continue to point out the obvious. Brava!!!

[MariaThinks]

24. thank you.

[MariaThinks]

71. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Times_of_India

The Times of India (TOI) is an Indian English-language daily newspaper. It is the third-largest newspaper in India by circulation and largest selling English-language daily in the world according to Audit Bureau of Circulations (India).[1][2]

It is owned and published by Bennett, Coleman & Co. Ltd. which is owned by the Sahu Jain family. In the Brand Trust Report 2012, Times of India was ranked 88th among India's most trusted brands and subsequently, according to the Brand Trust Report 2013, Times of India was ranked 100th among India's most trusted brands.

--------
Enough of your hatred and prejudice towards India.

[Violet_Crumble]

128. Yr pretty quick to play the 'you're a bigot!' card...

Explain to me how pointing out the the Times of India is a stinky RW rag is showing hatred and prejudice towards India? Having noticed that you and at leaIst one of yr cohorts in this thread like to hide behind the 'I'm a feminist who only cares about women!' line, does that mean you see any discussion of India's misogynistic anti-women laws to be 'hatred and prejudice towards India'?

Anyway, after having read this thread, I'm eager to learn all about Islam from you seeing you claim to have such a vast knowledge of it and Muslims. Like you, I'm so totally and utterly outraged that some Muslims don't celebrate christmas. Totally! Outraged!

[MariaThinks]

141. where is your proof that its a RW rag? It has a long rich history and there is no evidence that

it's stories are not factual. Are you saying the stories are not real or that they are not worth discussing because the source was the Times of India?

[Violet_Crumble]

142. You appear to have an aversion to answering questions...

I'm pretty sure you've ignored every single question asked of you in this thread but downthread you have the nerve to complain that someone didn't answer a question you asked.

I don't give a shit whether you think the Times Of India is RW or not. I'd like you to go back, read my post and address the questions I asked you. Can you do that? I'm willing to copy and paste them for you if you have difficulty locating them in my post. Let me know!

btw, back onto yr claims of expertise on all things Islam and Muslim. I'm really impressed! Not as impressed as I was with the expertise of an aspiring One Nation (hey, let's argue about whether they're RW or not!) candidate, but once you get on board and join her in fighting the brave battle to stop Vegemite having Halal certification because terrorism, destroying our way of life, blah blahdey blah, then I'm going to give you a whopping big gold star and pronounce you soul sisters in the fight against Islam!

[MariaThinks]

146. your writing makes no sense.

[Violet_Crumble]

151. Damn. I was expecting the 'you answer my question first!' response...

But claiming not to understand the question and blaming the person who asked it for you not understanding is also a well worn path for those who have an aversion to answering questions

[King_David]

155. Don't be intimidated by the bully tactics of some of these posters

I have seen some defending the very worst homophobic bigotry here , in support of a Gay hating medieval culture that needs to change in order to enter this century.
There's nothing progressive about defending homophobia.

[MariaThinks]

161. thanks. i continue to just tell the truth. the bullies try everything

- first hide any posts if they don't agree with the contents
- misstate history and try to revise it
- compare acts committed today to those committed 500 years ago - like they are equal
- name calling
- never answer an actual question

[smirkymonkey]

162. Yeah, I couldn't make sense of that rant either.

[Violet_Crumble]

163. If you can't comprehend what someone writes

How would you know if it's a rant or not? I wasn't aware that daring to ask a question was considered to be a rant. A rant would be more along the lines of someone lashing out blindly and calling someone a bigot against Indians and Christians even though there wasn't a word said about them. I'm happy to summarise the key points of what I said if you or Maria ask nicely.

One day Maria may work out this is a discussion forum and refusing to answer any questions looks very hypocritical when she's running round complaining that people don't answer hers.

[MariaThinks]

147. completetly unintelligeable rant. tying the Times of India to misogynistic practices in that country

makes no sense to anyone rational.

There is clear bigotry towards India in your writing.

And your lack of empathy towards Christians shows your true colors.

Really, your writing is awful and unintelligible. You jump from topics, make accusations in a rude way (cohort? I don't know the person).

You get the last word, I'm not going to bother responding to whatever you write.

[Violet_Crumble]

150. I strongly suspect the issue is a lack of reading comprehension on yr part...

And a strong aversion to answering any questions that are asked of you...

But I'm not one to be chased away by such a nasty and rude response, which raises more questions which of course you'll refuse to answer:

1. How does anyone who claims to be rational misinterpret the question I asked you as 'tying the Times of India to misogynistic practices' (btw, they're laws, not merely practices)? What I asked you was firstly to explain how anyone who's of the opinion that the Times Of India is conservative is a bigot who hates India. You refuse to explain that, which is a shame coz that'd cast some light on my second question which was seeing yr playing the bigot card over that, does that mean you think anyone who dares to criticise some of the blatantly anti-woman laws in place in India is also a bigot?

2. Can you point out where in the whole two posts I've done in this thread where you see clear bigotry towards India and lack of empathy towards Christians? And possibly try to explain why? I can say with 110% certainty it doesn't exist and am putting those bizarre bigotry accusations down to you admitting that you don't understand what I'm saying.

3. Referring to someone who you've been thanking profusely throughout this thread because they agree with you as a cohort is rude? Really? But you galloping through this thread calling anyone who doesn't agree with you, or in my case is having a bit of a chuckle at you, bigots who are most likely Muslims and male and straight isn't rude? Did you see me calling you a bigot? Hell, no. I don't need to do that...

Whether you respond or not is entirely up to you and is of no interest to me. I'll reply to yr posts if I feel like it as I play to a wider audience that solely you.

Have a lovely day, or as lovely as it can be with the fear of Muslims not saying merry christmas and some mosque in the UK trying to force you not to use Facebook...

[MariaThinks]

74. from the same wikipedia page - some muslims in english mosques don't consider him a muslim

"In 2013 Khan claimed to have received death threats for voting in favour of the Same-Sex Marriage Bill.[55][56] Tabloid sources reported that the imam of a Bradford mosque issued a fatwa in which he declared him to no longer be a Muslim; and police subsequently advised him to review his security."


keep trying

[Bad Dog]

90. So what.

Some Christians in Christian churches in America don't consider Mitt Romney a Christian.

You sound quite confused. You'd better go have a lie down before you suffer an aneurism.

[braddy]

127. No Christian denominations consider Mormonism a Chistian denomination, they all recognize

it as a religion, for a number of reasons, including that Mormonism is polytheistic, with countless gods and their concept of God and Jesus.

Romney expects to be a god someday and rule over a planet.

[Bad Dog]

130. Pretty much everyone over here classes the Mormons as Christians.

It's not as if they believe anything weirder than the rest.

[braddy]

139. No they don't, most people here who know about religion knows that Mormonism is a

unique religion and not a Christian denomination, no matter if they consider them both weird or not.

[Bad Dog]

164. Typical American arrogance.

To claim you know more about how British people think than someone who's from there. That sort of thinking is the reason you screwed up so badly in Iraq.

[braddy]

168. LOL, what are you talking about?

[Bad Dog]

182. I'm talking about you claiming to know more about British attitudes than me.

Or did you just lazily assume that I was another American? It's arrogance either way.

[braddy]

183. I don't care about British attitudes, I said Christian denominations, and they do not accept

Mormonism as Christian.

For instance in Britain the denominations are the same as here, whether they be Catholic are Anglican or whatever, they do not accept Mormonism as a Christian denomination but as it's own, non-Christian religion.

Here is the Anglican view of it.
"However, Mormonism’s teaching on angels is hardly the most consequential way in which its teaching departs from historic and biblical Christianity. Mormons do not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. Mormons also have a completely different way of understanding salvation that is largely built on personal moral triumph. In fact, Mormonism teaches that human beings have the potential to become gods themselves (though there is some dispute as to exactly how this claim is to be interpreted). The bottom line is that while Mormons use a lot of the same language as Christians to describe their beliefs, what they believe in is not Christianity. The God of Mormonism is not the God of the Bible."

[Bad Dog]

185. In Britain most people view Mormons as Christians.

That's what you disagreed with.

[braddy]

187. Actually my post that you responded to was quote,

"No Christian denominations consider Mormonism a Christian denomination, they all recognize it as a religion, for a number of reasons" you then used "people" in your response to me, which I assumed was just a mistake on your part because the Churches themselves determine what their position is, not a poll of the general public.

Why are you arguing such a silly point about what the general public thinks about religions and denomination's official beliefs, that they are not even members of, know little to nothing of, and why would that so far non-existent polling of yours that you haven't posted, have anything to do with anything?

Why are you being so pointlessly and senselessly argumentative?

[Bad Dog]

190. That's not was said at all.

I posted "Pretty much everyone over here classes the Mormons as Christians."

To which you replied.

"No they don't, most people here"

I'm arguing because I think it's a bit much when Americans claim to know more about British attitudes than us, or even worse treat us as if we were Americans. I'm sure you'd be pissed off if I claimed to know more about the goodoleyooessovay than you.

[braddy]

192. You keep posting the same nonsense over and over. The British church denominations whether

Catholic, Anglican, Protestant or whatever, do not hold Mormonism as a Christian denomination.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Bad Dog]

194. Yes they do.

You spoken to a lot of British clerics recently?

[braddy]

196. LOL, you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Bad Dog]

197. Answer the question.

When was the last time you spoke to any British members of the clergy?

[braddy]

198. I know their official church positions, why are you posting this repetitive argumentative nonsense?

If you want to argue that the Christian denominations do consider Mormonism as Christian, then why don't you just post that non-existent information?

Show me where the Anglican position suddenly reversed itself, or the Catholic, or whatever.

[Bad Dog]

200. Pretty much every priest I've spoken too considers them Christians.

They also consider them well weird. You clearly haven't spoken to any of them or anyone from the UK for that matter, not including me. Yet you still claim to know more about British attitudes.

That level of thinking is why you screwed up so badly in Iraq.

[braddy]

201. Spend a lot of time talking to Priests about Mormonism do you? And the priests that you talk to

all disagree with their own Christian religion and their church's position on Mormonism, well who wouldn't believe that story of yours.

You are passionate about your support for the American made religion of Mormonism, the right wing Republican voting religion of America, I will leave you alone with your passion.

[Bad Dog]

202. We talk about all sorts.

Sometimes we even talk about knowitall Americans.

[smirkymonkey]

203. Wow, I really admire your composure.

I just wanted to bang my head against the wall with that one.

[braddy]

204. Thanks, look at his sign up date and his other posts, this is what he does. Looking at the exchange

you can see that he has no actual curiosity about the topic, nor information on the topic, and we can assume zero participation in it's subject.

Romney's own British ancestors were converted to Mormonism, and came to America in about 1842, to personally serve Joseph Smith.

The Romneys have always been Mormon royalty and in it's leadership ever since, Mitt and his father and his line before him were Bishops, and Stake Presidents (which is over Bishops) and are famous among Mormons, and his line is presumed to be gods now, with their own planets to rule over and multiple wives.

[GulfCoast66]

140. And how worried was Romney

That someone would lop off his head for not being a real Christian?

[Bad Dog]

165. Not as frightened as a gay man in Christian Uganda.

I guess you're only interested in human rights abuses when they can be used to attack Moslems.

[GulfCoast66]

169. You make my point for me

You have listed the Christian countries that kill you for being gay.

How about making a list of the Muslim countries that do so. See the difference?

I am not defending conservative Christianity, which I find repulsive, but I am not blind to the realities of the real world.

Equating to behavior of conservative Christians in today's time to that of conservative Muslims just makes you look silly.

[Bad Dog]

170. I don't need to.

There's plenty of those on DU already doing it. The OP is a case in point, she repeatedly posts stories from somewhat dubious sources that put Islam in a bad light. Human rights abuses are not confined to Moslems, and you Americans have been guilty of more than your fair share over the past few years.

Instead I'll post a link to Sadiq Khan's speech to give you an idea what mainstream British Moslems are like.

https://www.facebook.com/bbcnews/videos/10153591427757217/

[GulfCoast66]

171. I do not know

About other posters on here cause I do not follow the issue on DU very closely.

I suspect you and I don't really disagree on all that much. All extremist violence is bad regardless of the motivations. Religious or secular.

[Bad Dog]

172. You may well be right.

This OP has had two posts hidden already. She scours the internet looking for negative stories about Islam. I guarantee you won't find her posting anything positive about Islam or anything negative about other religions.

[MariaThinks]

8. that's not the way this works

[Ilsa]

18. I don't understand your reply to me.

"That" and "this" are what? I just want to understand your point better.

[MariaThinks]

25. Sorry - i meant to say that you are right, unfortunately

that's not the way it is working. Members of the faith want to change the countries that were open and accepting enough to let them in. Instead of integrating, many muslims want to change the laws and culture. How many muslims will say "Merry Christmas". Last Christmas I said that to someone not realizing they were muslim and the guy looked back at me and said, 'I don't say that'.

[jmowreader]

35. Try saying "happy holidays" to a fundamentalist Christian

[MariaThinks]

43. more Christians are willing to say happy eid than muslims are to say 'Merry Christmas'

Hindus, Sikhs, Budhists generally have no problem respecting the festivals and holy days of other religions.

[Ilsa]

48. Not all Christians are fundies.

They are a minority, but they are too noisy and too republican. Moderate and liberal Christians are more like democrats in that they aren't pushy or trying to remake the world in their own image.

[MariaThinks]

52. i agree

[treestar]

51. Doesn't say in the article

That anyone else is expected to change. It is said only to Muslim women. If they want to live that way they have that choice

[Ilsa]

56. And I wonder what the men will do to

Enforce this new edict? Should we expect to see spousal abuse or worse just so the men get their way?

What if a woman uses Facebook for companionship because her husband won't permit her out when he's gone? Tough shit, put up with abuse, just because no one will try to get newcomers to assimilate just a little in a new culture?

I despise seeing this kind of control exerted over women who might be my neighbors, and I don't want to see misogyny grow and take a greater foothold in free societies.

[treestar]

60. They live in the UK

So no, spousal abuse is not permitted. Nothing in that article indicates the UK Will change its laws.

[smirkymonkey]

69. Right, neither are honor killings or child marriages, but

Last edited Fri May 6, 2016, 06:21 PM - Edit history (1)

we all know how that goes in those communities.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

103. FGM isn't permitted, either, but many girls in the UK still go through that horror

They just ship the cattle back home, get 'em branded, and bring 'em back ready for the auction.



(that's sarcasm, btw)

[Quantess]

125. Remember the friendly, well-liked muslim man who wished people "Happy Easter"

and then got stabbed to death my a muslim extremist, because of it?

[840high]

116. .+1

[philosslayer]

2. Not sure what the problem is

I don't necessarily agree with it, but they are free to practice their religion as they see fit.

[Bad Dog]

4. The problem is

one that just affects Maria Thinks. It's called prejudice.

[MariaThinks]

6. it's called facts. Asking me to change my culture because its considered evil in sharia is prejudice

[Bad Dog]

10. No it's not.

You may not have the wherewithal to see what you're doing, but others do.

[MariaThinks]

13. others see what you're doing. Don't be fooled.

[leftynyc]

20. Don't worry

we're quite able to see what they're doing and you're no hater.

[MariaThinks]

22. thank you. And i am really NOT a hater. I've been very progressive and accepting

but then I started to read and understand what islam is really about and what muslims really believe. As long as apostates are sentenced to death and the religion says it is the only true religion, where does that leave room for moderation?

[leftynyc]

29. If this Pew poll didn't

shake them out of their lazy thinking, nothing will. Even in Europe, 43% of Muslims think that women should OBEY their husbands. How any progressive doesn't have a problem with that boggles the mind. But I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with you or anyone else who wants to call it out for what it is.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

That entire poll is chilling - or should be to any REAL progressive.

[christx30]

30. And you'll find me right there with you.

I'm, frankly, uncomfortable with the idea of a submissive woman. If a woman wants to do it, that's her thing. But I wouldn't ever want that for myself.
Women should challenge their husbands. Call us idiots when we need it. I show my 7 year old daughter every bit of science I can get my hands on, to try to get that spark of interest in space going. I spent 30 minutes the other night showing her solar sail videos on youtube. She thought it was the coolest thing ever. Get that education and interest in learning started as early as possible, so she can decide for herself what she wants to do with her life.

[leftynyc]

33. You are a wonderful father

My own (may he rest in peace) drilled it into my sister and I that we should never depend on a man - that we should always be able to take care of ourselves. He and mom were married 53 years when he died.

[christx30]

36. Thank you.

She was looking at a magazine once. One of those fashion rags they sell at the grocery check out. The cover had this model on it. She said "She's so beautiful", like she was jealous of the woman's looks. So I showed her a 5 minute vid of what it takes to get a shot like that. The hours in the makeup chair. The hair. The exact right lighting. The Photoshop to remove all the "imperfections". Then I showed her the model's before picture, and a mirror. I told her that the model would probably look at her and say "Why can't I have eyes like that?"
But the #1 thing I'm always telling her is that her brain is the most important thing to develop. "Do your homework. Remember those women in the blue shirts that were monitoring Curiosity's landing? Wouldn't you want to do something like that? They worked hard to get there. They studied. You could be doing THAT in 20 years."

[leftynyc]

38. That's awesome

I've worked with advertising so everytime I see someone slobbering over a pic of a model, I also point out the miracle of photoshop and lighting.

[MariaThinks]

44. Your father sounds like a great man.

[leftynyc]

47. He was

I miss his wit and wisdom every single day. He's the one who gave me a passion for politics and I can't believe he's missing this election season. He would have loved it.

[MariaThinks]

49. thank you for sharing.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

104. I told all my girls

"One is a whole number. It is not a fraction. You are complete and capable all on your own."

[treestar]

53. So do some other women

That was Christian doctrine too. If people wish to live that way they can. Doesn't mean the rest of us have to

[leftynyc]

57. It also doesn't mean

we can speak out against it whenever we please. THAT's what being free is about. I wonder what would happen to women belonging to that mosque if they spoke out like this.

[Bad Dog]

40. That's why you've had two posts hidden.

[MariaThinks]

70. there is no logic to that statement.

[Bad Dog]

88. There is.

It just shot over your head.

[MariaThinks]

154. what a stupid thing to say.

[Bad Dog]

167. You've cornered the market in stupid things.

Like most bigots when you come across something you don't understand, (and that happens all the time,) you just call it stupid.

[MariaThinks]

68. you don't answer a question - just more innuendo

[Bad Dog]

131. You didn't ask a question.

Try to remember what you've said.

[840high]

118. You are wrong.

[Bad Dog]

132. I never once imagined MariaThinks was the only Islamophobe on DU.

Some Americans need a bogeyman be it Communism or Islam, that way they can pretend the humanitarian disaster in the ME had nothing to do with their adventure in Iraq.

[MariaThinks]

153. what an infantile uneducated argument to call someone an islamophobe without addressing

any concerns.
- are muslims allowed to leave islam?
- how many innocent people are getting slaughtered in the name of islam?
- how tolerant is islam of other religions

do you have any answers to these questions or do you just like to continue arguing without purpose.

[Bad Dog]

166. They're not proper questions.

They make ignorant assumptions based on the notion that Islam is one homogenous entity. That level of ignorance is why you screwed up so royally in Iraq.

There's lots of different types of Islam, like there's lots of different types of Christianity. You would like to paint them all as extremists because you're a bigot.

How many Latin Americans have been slaughtered to pay for America's drug habit? How many American children are killed because of America's pathetic need to hold onto guns? How tolerant is America of democratically elected governments who put their citizens need above rich American's profits? Not many if Chile, Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua and Cuba are anything to go by.

[MariaThinks]

173. keep apologizing for the terrorists

[Bad Dog]

174. Not all Moslems are terrorists.

Over 99% aren't, and only a simple minded bigot would think otherwise.

[MariaThinks]

175. but how many terrorists are muslims?

another knife attack today in Germany by a murderer yelling in Arabic "Allah Akbar"

[Bad Dog]

176. You Americans were quite relaxed about funding terrorism yourselves

until one big chicken came home to roost in 9/11. Your Noraid funded terrorist attacks in the UK and you funded Al Qaida. We didn't have Islamic terrorism in Britain until the ill judged, ill thought out and illegal debacle in Iraq.

You're definitely guilty of state sponsored terrorism throughout Latin America. And your Guantanamo Bay is the best recruiting sergeant IS ever had. If you want to tackle terrorism you need to get your own house in order and start addressing the causes.

[MariaThinks]

178. you blame the victims? And you blame us for being attacked on 911?

[Bad Dog]

179. No, just pointing out the difference between your relaxed attitude to NI terrorism and the hysteria

surrounding 9/11. If you'd not been so one sided in Israel/Palestine, not funded Al Qaida in Afghanistan, and not supported pro Western despots in the ME who crushed democratic opposition leaving radical Islam as the only vocal opponent of American hegemony, there's a good chance 9/11 might not have happened.

The main difference is that, unlike America, we never allowed fund raising for terrorist attacks on the other member of the so called special relationship.

Every time Donald Trump opens his mouth another disaffected young man is radicalised.

If you want to defeat terrorism you've got to stop slagging off all Moslems. The chaos we've got at the moment is caused by less than 1% of the global Moslem population, and people like you want to piss off the other 99+%.

You won't win that way.

[Bad Dog]

177. You should try checking your facts.

It looks like it was the work of a lone nutter who may not even have been a Moslem.

A man who killed a commuter and injured three others in a knife attack at a railway station near Munich suffered from psychological problems and drug addiction, state officials say.

The man attacked four people shortly before 05:00 (03:00 GMT) on Tuesday at Grafing station. One of the victims died of his wounds in hospital.

A 27-year-old German man was eventually overpowered by police and arrested.

Some witnesses said he shouted "Allahu akbar" ("God is great" in Arabic).

But a spokesman for Bavaria state's interior ministry said that "so far we have no evidence for an Islamist motive".

"We have found the man had psychological and drug problems," Oliver Platzer told AFP news agency. He said the investigation was continuing.

The suspect has been identified as a German national, apparently from the Hessen area of central Germany.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36254513

[MariaThinks]

180. the investigation is ongoing and if, like before despite denials it turns out to be a

muslim terrorist, I'm sure you're just point to your 911 nonsense and revisionist history.

[Bad Dog]

181. It is ongoing.

Yet we know he's mentally ill, a drug addict and white. You're the one who rushes to judgement and selectively uses news items to pursue your own twisted agenda.

As always Americans are so much better at killing innocents, but you don't even consider it because it doesn't fit in with your bigoted worldview.

Two people are dead and two more injured at two separate shootings at a mall and a shopping center in Montgomery County, Maryland. The suspect, who was linked to a Thursday shooting at a school in Prince George's County, has been arrested, police said.

https://www.rt.com/usa/342104-shooting-motgomery-mall-bethesda/

I don't know why you're so determined to push even more disaffected young men into the arms of Jihadists, maybe you're even stupid enough to believe America can win a war against Islam. It can't.

Clearly this wouldn't be of interest to someone like you but those of us who value education know that without Islam we wouldn't have had the Renaissance, we would know nothing of the Greek philosophers and science wouldn't be where it is now. Words like Chemistry and Algebra come from the Arabic.

[MariaThinks]

184. speaking the truth does not push people to radicalism. Ignoring them and being afraid or stupid

does do thst.

there are examples of Islamic brutality when there are no other factors. Recently we've seen muslim males hugging other gay males before throwing them off tall buildings to their deaths followed by their Arabic chants. The look of satisfaction on the killers faces saddens me to this day. There are examples of this activity in every major country that has muslim residents.

[Bad Dog]

186. You don't speak the truth, you distort it.

You constantly attack Islam. You've never once posted anything positive about Moslems. When the Jihadists say the West is opposed to all Islam not just the extremists you give them all the evidence they need.

[MariaThinks]

188. and what do you post that is truthfully negative?

there are terrorist attacks everyday by muslims killing innocent people. From what I've studied, the following beliefs are held by most muslims:

1. homosexuals should be put to death by stoning, throwing off buildings, other means (being done in Syria, Iraq, Banglashesh, Pakistan)
2. adulterers should be stoned to death (being done in afgan)

[Bad Dog]

191. There are shootings by white Americans every day.

A judge in the western U.S. state of Colorado has ruled a man charged with killing three people and wounding nine others in a shooting spree at a Planned Parenthood clinic last year is mentally incompetent to stand trial.

http://www.voanews.com/content/judge-rules-planned-parenthood-shooter-incompetent-for-trial/3326915.html

1 Americans do not value human life at all.

2 Americans let mass shooters off if they're white.

3 Americans are racist.

And if you don't own or carry a gun there's plenty who would say you're not a real American.

It's quite easy to make sweeping statements about a group of people based on the actions of a few individuals.

[MariaThinks]

193. They are not supported by the official religion they follow. Clearly you are not interested in the

truth, just calling me names, supporting terrorists, and deflecting all blame.

[Bad Dog]

195. They follow the religion of the 2nd Amendment

Every bit as fervently as any other zealot.

You really don't understand what's going on do you?

[Violet_Crumble]

199. There's several words you appear to not understand the meaning of...

The first is *truth*. Truth means something is factually correct. It doesn't mean 'everything MariaThinks comes out with'.

The second is *terrorist*. Terrorism is carried out by terrorist groups and sometimes states themselves, against civilians and there's a political motive behind most of them. Terrorism isn't the sole weapon of any one religious or political group and just because someone is a Muslim and commits a criminal act doesn't make them a terrorist.

[muriel_volestrangler]

62. Your culture? Are you a Muslim? Or a migrant from Pakistan to the UK? (nt)

[a la izquierda]

152. Who the fuck is asking you to change anything?

Are you a Muslim woman? No?
Then this doesn't concern you personally.

[philosslayer]

9. Yes, i've seen a lot of that here

Find an article from a questionable source that defames Islam, post it, and wait for the outrage to surface.

Muslims are moving to Europe. Their population will grow. The culture will adjust accordingly. Deal with it.

[MariaThinks]

15. calling the Times of India questionable is racist and bigotted. Do you have any proof of your

allegation?

[MariaThinks]

50. notice that there is no response - anyone calling the Times of India questionale is racist towards

India. Period.

[muriel_volestrangler]

64. No, the source is "The Times" in the UK - owned by Rupert Murdoch

The Times of India is just repeating what The Times wrote. It's quite reasonable to call a Murdoch-owned paper 'dubious' and 'questionable'.

The mosques talked about do indeed sound patriarchal - like many churches in the USA that warn their followers about the evils of the internet and how women shouldn't wear pants.

[MariaThinks]

67. The Times of India would not have repeated it if it was not true

[muriel_volestrangler]

75. LOL! Is this the first time you've read the media?

How touching.

It probably is true the named mosques have said what they are quoted as saying. But why some members of one of three patriarchal Abrahamic religions continuing to treat women as second-class members, as they have done for between two and three and a half thousand years, depending on which one you're talking about, counts as 'news' to you is a mystery. Have you put up LBN stories about Southern Baptists telling wives to obey their husbands?

And, as I asked you, but you haven't answered, are you a Muslim?

[MariaThinks]

76. because southern baptists aren't blowing themselves up and killing thousands of people every month.

and I'm sick of the prejudice towards India as evidenced by those who attack the Times of india. I don't see similar comments about CNN.

[muriel_volestrangler]

77. And these mosques aren't "blowing themselves up and killing thousands of people every month"

You're lumping every single Muslim in the world together without a single thought.

There is no 'prejudice against India'. Some people are pointing out that the endless stories from you about Muslims are getting tedious. You're just trying to claim there's something good about your Murdoch story because a paper in India repeated it, and making false accusations against DUers of 'racism'.

[MariaThinks]

80. i'm doing no such thing at all. And posting stories of events is what breaking news is about

sorry if it offends your biased world view.

[muriel_volestrangler]

81. It's been going on for over a thousand years. It's not 'breaking news'

In what direction do you think my world view is biased?

[MariaThinks]

95. this event at Mosques happened recently.

but I agree that that type of thing has been going on for thousands of years.

[Ilsa]

93. Maybe she didn't put up those stories about

Southern Baptists issuing edicts about wives, but they have been posted on DU, and commented on by many of us.

At least a So.Baptist wife doesn't have to worry about FGM or being killed by a family member for wearing pants or visiting on Facebook.

[MariaThinks]

96. or being stoned to death because she let a man see her elbow

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

105. I live around southern Baptists

The vast majority of the ones who believe in submission do not believe anything close to what is in this article.

Submission to most Baptists means that in rare cases, the husband has the last word - like if he has to move for his job (assuming he brings in the bulk of the income), he gets the last say. Even to most Baptists, a woman should be strong and capable to run her household, and should be free to make many choices in her life. Her sphere. Think 1950's wife: she runs the house, decorates it, does what she wants during the day, etc. It's her sphere of life and she controls it.
In reality, it's how a lot of marriages work to to this day if the woman doesn't work outside the house. (Any many southern baptist wives work outside the home. Their daughters go to college and can have careers.)

Then, there's the nut jobs like the ones who believe in arranged marriage and having gobs of kids, but they are a small minority, thankfully.

Myself - I'm a lapsed Catholic.

[MariaThinks]

16. some of us actually understand what islam is about. We are not sheep. you deal with that.

and stop bullying me. I'm free to post.

[philosslayer]

32. Don't you see that this sort of attitude breeds islamaphobia?

This is EXACTLY the kind of propaganda right wing hate groups feed on. And then, when they carry out attacks on Muslims, we tut tut how horrible it is. When we, without intent , feed the beast so to speak.

[leftynyc]

34. Sorry

I'm not going keep my mouth shut about what's going on with the women stuck under archaic religious practices because there are some who will take advantage of that. You may be willing to throw women under the proverbial bus in the name of political correctness but plenty of us aren't. It's time you get used to that because the BEAST of misogyny bothers me much more.

[MariaThinks]

46. fearing a culture where members become more violent as they get deeper into the faith

is not phobic or racist.

- the boston marathon
- Belgium
- France
- Canada
- India
- Russia
- Austraiia
- Spain
- Britain

muslim worshippers have committed terrorist attacks in every one of them. Stop the attacks and islamaphobia will go down.

Funny how people are not phobic about any other religion these days accept islam. Could there be a reason?

[romanic]

115. Oh please.

Your constant deflection and defense for these Islamic wackos is way past the due date. Look we get it, you hate Western/European culture and want these hateful imams to turn free thinking women in punching bags wrapped in a burka.

Guess what, no one is going to stop you for having an opinion. But no one isn't going to hesitate from calling you out either.

[smirkymonkey]

134. +1000

[Bad Dog]

41. I used to teach in a very diverse boy's school.

Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Atheists and Agnostics. They weren't much different. They were all little bastards

Note how it's telling that despite this being a British story she's got no British sources. Note also the vague wording of her source. "Many Mosques" could be any number over two.

[closeupready]

92. +1. Glad to see I'm not the only one who sees that.

[Bad Dog]

102. Thanks.

People like that aren't very bright. She's already had two posts hidden. On a positive note it looks like Sadiq Khan is set to become London's first Muslim mayor. The smear tactics employed by Tory Zac Goldsmith seriously backfired.

[King_David]

114. What's your problem?

I see no basis for your accusations .

Are you stalking Maria Thinks ? If the mods are watching I think you deserve pizza for these disgusting baseless accusations.

[smirkymonkey]

11. You mean the MEN are free to practice their religion as they see fit.

The women have to put up with this crap or suffer the consequences.

Islam is a plague.

[MariaThinks]

14. exactly

[leftynyc]

17. Apparently the WOMAN

are NOT free to practice their religion any way they see fit. Perhaps you're okay with that. Anyone who wants to call me an Islamophobe for stating the truth should know now they'll only elicit yawns from me or charges of misogyny from me - I have zero patience for lazy thinkers.

[Ilsa]

21. Precisely -- "Stop" this and "delete" that, and

stop going out without a male relative's permission. The extremists are trying to make their women revert back to the patriarchy's misogynistic ways. That is not okay with me in a democratic culture.

[smirkymonkey]

23. There are too many apologists for this crap on DU.

How much do you want a bet they are all male and straight?

[MariaThinks]

45. or even members of the faith

[leftynyc]

26. But calling it out

makes us haters to the non-thinkers on the left. It's hard enough to fight the right every single day - when it comes to Islam, Bill Maher was absolutely right. ANYTHING to deflect from the misogynistic practices of Islam. Good thing I stopped caring about that bullshit long ago.

[PersonNumber503602]

79. But they are free to not abide by those rules

if the males in their life say they don't have to. What ever happened to individuals freedoms to decide how their wives and daughters live? We never criticize christians when they do this sort of stuff, and christians are like a bazillion times worse. If these women don't like it, then why don't they just pack up and leave? It's not much different than someone who has a minimum wage job. If they want to make more money, then why don't they just move to a new place and get higher paying job? It's not like it's difficult to do or anything. Or how about women who are in an abusive relationship but refuse to pack up and leave? I mean, come on... They are to blame for their abuse, because they could totally just leave if they wanted to. So yeah, these muslim women are not being forced to do an anything, because the could choose not to at any time.

[Ilsa]

82. Yep, you got it. nt

[smirkymonkey]

110. "Individuals' freedom to decide how their wives and daughters live?"

Seriously? WTF? What about the "individual freedom" of the wives and daughters themselves?

[PersonNumber503602]

121. Do you have any idea how culturally imperialistic is to say that females are not property of their

fathers and husbands?

I'm actually being a bit more "snarky" than usual. I'm just following the defense of these sorts of things to their ultimate conclusion.

[smirkymonkey]

135. OK, get it.

That was sarcasm, I suppose. But you never really can tell on DU, can you?

[treestar]

54. Sure they can

They live in the UK which will not use its legal system to compel them to obey their husband. If they go out without his permission there is nothing he can do about it

[leftynyc]

59. There is nothing he can do

LEGALLY. Would you like me to start linking to all the stories in the last year where some "uppity" women spoke out against their husbands/fathers/brothers?

[smirkymonkey]

72. Exactly! Like the UK legal system is going to

offer any kind of protection for women in these situations. It's so ridiculous it's laughable.

[awoke_in_2003]

85. "there is nothing he can do about it"

You're either naïve or delusional.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

107. I think a lot of people here are both.

nt

[awoke_in_2003]

84. +1000. nt

[philosslayer]

117. How do YOU know the women object?

Great Britain is a free country. If they don't like the suggestions out forth by this Imam, they are free to ignore them.

[smirkymonkey]

136. Right, that always works out so well for the women.

[christx30]

159. My wife had this friend here in Austin.

She's a smart, wonderful woman with a great job and a sweet daughter. She met this guy that lives in Miami. Six weeks later, she's selling her house and moving out there with him. Two weeks later, at his demand, she deletes her Facebook, severs all contact with all of her friends, including my wife.
If it's creepy and borderline abusive when between a man and his girlfriend, it's creepy when it comes from a religion.
And in both cases, it's perfectly ok to speak out about it.

[christx30]

28. If the Incas were still around

practicing human sacrifice as part of their religion/culture, would you be ok with that?
There are times where it is ok to say that something isn't acceptable.
There was a story on DU a few days ago where a teenage girl was punished for helping her friend elope. Her village, including her mother, put her inside a burning car until she died. But, hey. That's their culture, right? So it's all good. The people involved were arrested. But no one believes they will face anything more than a slap on the wrist. Because, you know, the culture.

ETA: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141438339 the story.

[MariaThinks]

42. that's an excellent questions.

[treestar]

55. If they were on their own turf they

Could probably get away with it. Like the Saudis do. They can have four wives all of whom have to obey them.

Yet no western country they immigrate to has to allow that

[christx30]

89. They could get away with it,

but it would still get out. And it would be ok for the civilized world to be outraged by the treatment, and the actions condemned.
But it's somehow wrong to condemn pretty much the exact same thing when it comes to Islam. The life of that girl in Abbottabad was sacrificed to her village's god. It's barbaric and horrible. Condemning it, and this edict or the general treatment of women doesn't make one a bigot. It makes one a progressive human.

[smirkymonkey]

108. Thank YOU!

[Jesus Malverde]

156. "practicing human sacrifice as part of their religion/culture"

Beheading people after Friday prayers sounds a lot like that.

[christx30]

157. Oh I completely agree with you.

But for some reason, calling them out on that makes you a bigot.
"I hate Christians because they don't support marriage equality."
Solid progressive there.
"It's wrong for Muslims to behead people. And Honor killings are terrible."
Why are you such a bigot?

[Jesus Malverde]

158. We can thank the Saudi's that the term "beheading" is part of our modern lexicon.

[christx30]

160. Fun fact:

The last guillotine be heading in France was 1977, the year Star Wars came out.

[TlalocW]

27. I'm not Muslim, British, or a woman

However, I will shun trousers.

I should write them to let them know that.

TlalocW

[Bad Dog]

100. Even these ones?

[iandhr]

31. The such a lovely culture.

[Nye Bevan]

37. Fuck the "Prophet" (nt)

[awoke_in_2003]

87. Every prophet. nt

[csziggy]

61. Since people are asking for a British source for this story

Women should not travel more than 48 miles without a male escort – Muslim group
by Lexi Finnigan John Bingham
4 May 2016 • 11:49pm

Women should not be allowed to go on long journeys without a male chaperone a British Muslim group has advised followers.

Justine Greening, the International Development Secretary, condemned the advice from Blackburn Muslim Association as “disgraceful” and said such views had “no place” in modern Britain.

Instructions from the association’s “Department of Theology” insist that it is “not permissible” for a woman to go more than 48 miles – deemed to be the equivalent of three days walk - without her husband or a close male relative.

It also stipulates that men must grow beards and advises women to cover their faces.

More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/04/women-should-not-travel-more-than-48-miles-without-a-male-escort/

One reason this edict is significant is the demographics of the Blackburn area:

The proportion of Muslim population (19.4% or 26,674 people) is the third highest among all local authorities in the United Kingdom and the highest outside London. 20.4% of the districts population belongs to any South Asian ethnic group, making it the highest percentage in the region, and almost four times higher than national average of South Asians.[2]

According to the 2011 census, the proportion of Muslims increased to 27.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackburn_with_Darwen#Demographics

[leftynyc]

63. They didn't REALLY

want another source. Just something to whine about to deflect from the story that makes them feel icky.

[csziggy]

65. I know - but it removes a source of complaint

And the excuse to claim that the story only exists from a supposed "racist" source.

I also liked that the Telegraph story included the information that:

The group is listed as an affiliate of the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) and claims on its website to have received funding from its local council in the past.

But leading Muslim scholars, including a prominent adviser to the MCB, rejected the guidance as “offensive in this day and age” while the National Secular Society condemned it as “almost medieval”.

Not all Muslims in Britian agree with the edict and they have spoken out against it. Too often news stories do NOT include the condemnations from main stream Muslims and that leads to Islamaphobia - just as news does not cover how disgusted most Christians are with the radical right wing Christians in this country.

[leftynyc]

66. True enough

but I'm of the mind that the more these stories are out there and talked about, the sooner the more regressive types will become nothing but a bothersome minority. That should be the goal for any progressive.

[csziggy]

73. I agree - we need to talk about the regressive things some do

And we need to make sure the facts are out there, so an extra source just adds more layers of truth.

I wish I could have found out more about the group that put this opinion out there - their website is just a placeholder. There is a Facebook page for a Blackburn Mosque - but seems to be for an individual mosque - different name - and not the group that has put themselves in the news.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

111. Media does't report this stuff because they don't want to upset

people.

Just like the Germans thought that the New Year's Eve nightmare would never become public.

And then there's the hundreds of young girls in England who were groomed for sex, raped and raped again, but the police never did anything about it for fear of offending Muslims. (But when the media finally started reporting it, the criminals were deemed "asians."

[muriel_volestrangler]

78. The Telegraph is just as right wing as Murdoch's Times

You surely know that.

[leftynyc]

86. While I'm sure you'll find reason

to complain about ALL these sources:

The London Times
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kb-mosques-06-hsc-rfprdckzj

RT
https://www.rt.com/uk/342116-british-mosques-ban-women-/

Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3576547/Mosques-ban-Muslim-women-wearing-trousers-leaving-house-without-husband-s-permission-order-close-Facebook-accounts.html

The Independent
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/islam-womens-rights-fundamentalist-interpretations-rising-leading-imam-a7017246.html


I'm sure they'll all lying.

[muriel_volestrangler]

91. The Independent is the only one that isn't right wing

So you can see where the 'concern' about this nostly is. It's not a question of 'lying', it's whether they (especially The Times, which is the origin of all the articles) are exaggerating the extent, or really just pointing out something which has been a problem for a millennium or two in the Abrahamic religions.

I mean, not only do they say 'don't wear trousers', many of them say 'do wear a headscarf'! But it's not exactly LBN, is it?

[leftynyc]

94. Unbelievable

Meanwhile, it's only MOSQUES that are asking this but you felt the need to throw in all the Abrahamic religions for some reason even though the story doesn't mention them in the slightest. Then you complain it's not LBN although the story is less than 24 hours old. I most certainly do see where the "concern" mostly is. You don't like talking about the regressive policies of Islam - and that's all it is.

[MariaThinks]

98. it's the way that the islamic apologists deflect criticism that is valid

name calling
denial
more name calling
false comparisons
more name calling

[muriel_volestrangler]

101. Well, yes, that's the point - the story doesn't mention them

and that's why I'm happy calling it 'dubious'. The other Abrahamic religions have people demanding women follow dress codes too:

http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-category/womens-issues/?p=2677

Quiverfull is an ultraconservative movement of fundamentalist Christians in the US and possibly other countries. There isn't a single overarching quiverful organization in a formal sense but they are a pretty coherent social movement.

In essence, the fundamental idea of quiverful is related to a metaphor of children being similar to arrows in the quiver of an archer. Having more of them is a Good Thing (TM).

Typical beliefs:

...
4) Strong emphasis on distinguishing spheres of men and women. They emphasize the concept of "headship" which is easy enough to look up for yourself but it pretty much means that men are in charge, all the time. Women have to shut up (metaphorically and sometimes also physically).
5) In some groups, women wear a physical head-covering as a sign of submission to men.
6) Women cannot wear trousers, because that is cross-dressing.
7) Characteristic attire, especially for women and girls. The "denim jumper" is perhaps the most stereotypical of quiverful outfits, but many prefer "Little House on the Prairie" type dresses with frilly aprons for both girls and women. Regardless, dress for women must be clearly feminine and obviously modest, showing a little bit of bare ankle is about as far as one can push it without being counseled.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=738764

Yes, it's not LBN that the fundamentalists in the Abrahamic religions tell women how to dress. And they warn their members of the evil of the internet.

I'm quite happy talking about how regressive Islam is. You can go and look at the Religion group. But it's not new, and it's not confined to Islam.

[smirkymonkey]

112. Because left wing papers such as the Guardian and others INTENTIONALLY

Last edited Sat May 7, 2016, 09:53 AM - Edit history (1)

avoid reporting things like this. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it's just that they are too PC to report on it.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

113. Much of the media simply doesn't report anything that

would cast a Muslim in a negative light. And apparently police didn't do anything about hundreds of "white" girls being raped for the same damn reason in England.

Surely, you realize that the German government and media thought they could get away without reporting what happened on New Year's Eve? Yeah, hundreds of people were there, but if the media doesn't report it, then it can be said that it's just hate being spread by the right wing. Definitely a bad call on Germany's part!

[MariaThinks]

99. so any tragedy reported in a right wing newspaper doesn't exist to your mind.

[csziggy]

129. Here are plenty of other sources - and I don't track British newspapers

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3576547/Mosques-ban-Muslim-women-wearing-trousers-leaving-house-without-husband-s-permission-order-close-Facebook-accounts.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/islam-womens-rights-fundamentalist-interpretations-rising-leading-imam-a7017246.html

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/kb-mosques-06-hsc-rfprdckzj

[MariaThinks]

97. good point. There are no words of outrage at what's HAPPENING. they are only

outraged that I had the nerve to post it for all to see

[smirkymonkey]

109. Exactly! How anyone can defend this shit and still call themselves

a progressive is just beyond me! Of course if it was a church or a temple issuing such a mandate they would be all over it.

[philosslayer]

120. It's called tolerance. And diversity

This is their culture. And they live in a free country. We may not agree with it, but if the adherents don't object, why should you?

[christx30]

122. Public service announcements on TV,

airing at least twice per hour, telling women that they don't have to follow the rules of the religion. They have a way out if they truly want to have control over their lives, and to call the police if they feel unsafe in their own home.
Include Koranic verses saying that men and women are equals, and the husband shouldn't control his wife.

[philosslayer]

123. Do those exist now?

Or are you proposing them? I can't imagine the British doing something like this.

[christx30]

124. I'm proposing them.

Some of the women may feel trapped because they don't know they can do anything about it. Differences in culture. Lack of knowledge about the law. Education to help these women is crucial to preserve the strides that western societies have made in the last 50+ years. The people living there don't want the culture to change. Immigrants need to adapt to the country they live in. I wouldn't expect Saudi Arabia to adapt to allow my wife to drive or vote or be anything more than property if I moved there. Which is why I wouldn't ever go there.

[smirkymonkey]

137. Only the male, straight adherents don't object.

Fuck your tolerance for this sick, hateful, misogynistic, anti-gay cult.

[philosslayer]

119. You love to complain

But what is your proposed solution ? The number of Islams is growing both by birth and conversion, so this will be increasingly prevalent. Especially in Britain. London in fact elected a Muslim mayor today.

[yurbud]

83. so guys can't wear trousers around them? Doesn't it get chilly in Britain?

[BadGimp]

106. Facebook Trousers - are women wearing these?

I've never seen em.. someone please Photoshop this :p

[Skittles]

126. sexist trash

[Democat]

133. Many on DU strongly support sexism as long as it isn't coming from Christians

There are a lot of DUers who support extreme right wing policies as long as they are not instituted by white Christians.

[smirkymonkey]

138. You said it!

[tenderfoot]

189. and many disruptors are already sexist and hold extreme right wing positions

while trying to prove that the left is hypocritical.

Like what's going on throughout this thread.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

143. Control, submission, assimilation.

The drug of extremist religion and culture requires it to take effect.

[oberliner]

144. The actual document cited was posted on the Croydon mosque website

For people that have a problem with the source, it is just reporting on a document that the Croydon mosque website posted online:

http://www.croydonmosque.com/pdf/Advice_for_the_Husband_and_Wife.pdf

[MariaThinks]

145. thanks. The source is obviously accurate. I won't expect any retractions

from the obvious bigots.

[oberliner]

148. Author is Muhammad Yusuf Danka

Here's a list of all the articles he has written for their site:

http://www.croydonmosque.com/?page=articles

About the mosque:

CMIC is well attended with over 9,000 people passing through the Mosque during an average week; this increases to over 30,000 people per week during Ramadan

[MariaThinks]

149. i tried to read some of the links to see what they preach but the links are broken

e.g., I tried this one.

Relations with Non-Muslims according to Islam

broken link