Ron Paul's Iowa maneuvers place GOP in awkward position
Source: Latimes
Ron Paul's Iowa maneuvers place GOP in awkward position
By Seema Mehta
June 16, 2012, 6:06 p.m.
DES MOINES Rick Santorum won the Iowa caucuses in January, with Mitt Romney a close second, but neither was the true winner this weekend when the delegates who actually will vote at the Republican National Convention were selected. That would be Ron Paul.
The congressman from Texas finished a distant third in the Iowa caucuses more than six months ago, but of the 28 delegates selected Friday and Saturday to head to the national convention, 23 are Paul supporters and they are not bound to support the victor of the states first-in-the-nation voting contest.
Its part of a quiet strategy by Paul and his backers to amass an army of supporters at the GOP gathering in August in Tampa, Fla., to push Pauls views on liberty, states' rights, the monetary system and foreign policy. By working arcane electoral rules and getting supporters into positions of power in local, county and state party operations, the strategy is paying dividends across the nation.
Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-ron-pauls-iowa-maneuvers-place-gop-in-awkward-position-20120616,0,3570263.story
freshwest
(53,661 posts)D23MIURG23
(2,833 posts)by packing the floor with Ron Paul supporting delegates. I don't support Ron Paul, but if he and his supporters want to make a mess of the Republican Convention, I'd be all for it...
zbdent
(35,392 posts)the maniacal right ...
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)without stoning people they think aren't upholding their ideas of morality.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)And they half control the RW these days.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Ron Paul believes in it as does his buddies Gary North, Lew Rockwell and the man Ron Paul endorsed for President in 2008 Chuck Baldwin. Who by the way is also a Neo-Confederate. Nice folks...
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)as utopia.
freshstart
(265 posts)did you read about biblical capitalism....they are into that too. And that is some scary shit.
zbdent
(35,392 posts)(nod to Monty Python)
Really, I doubt that there is a bottom to the depths that the Righties will plunge to ...
OnlinePoker
(5,702 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)I have heard of a few here recently.
AK, MN, MT??
Are there others? Does anybody have a count of the delegates?
This may be important because we know that this has happened before, in the 70's and 80's, when the religious right took over the entire Republican party using just these tactics. If you get a majority of the precinct delegates, you get the majority all the way up the chain. It is very easy to get elected delegate at the precinct level. I know. I've done it multiple times.
So where does Ron Paul stand on this? How wide spread is the infection?
We need to pay close attention to this. And do not presume that this is good for the Democratic party. It isn't any better than the religious right being in power. It only trades one unmoving ideological cult for another. Both are bad. And in some ways the Ayn Randers are worse.
sweetloukillbot
(10,790 posts)As I understand the process it doesn't matter if they're Ron Paul delegates. In the first round, if Mitt won the state, they have to vote for Mitt. And since he's locked up the nomination, it's not going to get to the second round.
D23MIURG23
(2,833 posts)If they want to make a scene by turning states over to Paul, they can do that. Its hard for me to imagine them getting enough states to actually give Paul the nomination though, and if they managed that, its hard for me to imagine the party wouldn't find some method for overruling it.
longship
(40,416 posts)That's why we need to know and why it may be very important.
I've asked these questions because I am ignorant of these affairs since the Repubs set their own rules.
But if the Rand cult delegates go rogue on the first ballot, there may be some real chair throwing (so to speak) in Tampa. If the rules say they can, Rmoney could be in trouble.
Again, how many states, and which ones, have the Ayn Randers done this?
sweetloukillbot
(10,790 posts)I know this is the first time I remember that they made the point during the caucus coverage that the results were "non-binding." I think they did that in IA and MO. Didn't some Paultards go rogue in primary states as well?
I dunno, even if it doesn't change the outcome, it's going to be entertaining...
longship
(40,416 posts)But if the majority of delegates that are voting for state delegates are Paulites, the delegates going to the national convention are going to be Paulites.
In the past couple of months the same has been reported here in DU for a few other states.
I just don't know what to make of it. Yesterday, it was reported that the IA Paul delegates (21 of 25, IIRC) may not honor any commitment.
That was the purpose of my posts here.
What's going on?
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I have a vague recollection of reading that, if five state delegations propose a motion, it must be taken up by the entire Convention. If that's so, then Paul, by purloining majorities in five delegations where he didn't win the primary or caucus, could trot out a series of his pet positions. Even if all were voted down, it would be his chance to promote libertarianism on a national stage.
This could be great for us. Suppose the Convention has to vote on amending the platform to call for complete privatization of Social Security, or the restoration of the gold standard, or some such. Then Romney must tell his minions to vote for it (he'll look unacceptably wacko to the sensible people whose support he needs), or tell them to vote against it (he'll look unacceptably sensible to the wackos whose support he needs), or duck and say that his delegates are free to vote their consciences (he'll look like a wuss to everybody).
D23MIURG23
(2,833 posts)your worry. The godbots and the party brass aren't going to let this go without a fight, because they won't want to run Paul against Obama, and the Republican primary voters didn't pick Paul. I'm also not sure what part of the republican party wouldn't qualify as an "unmoving ideological cult". They are all completely illogical about almost everything.
Do you know something that I don't about how this might play out? I'm just seeing a possibility for republican infighting on a massive scale.
longship
(40,416 posts)I was hoping that somebody here can enlighten me. Because certainly Rand is doing this for some purpose. I am merely trying to discern what that purpose could be.
It could be another danger to the Democrats that we should look out for. If that's the case, we need to be aware of it now.
Thanks for your questions. But I am asking the same ones.
D23MIURG23
(2,833 posts)He got the majority of the delegates in NV
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/ron-paul-wins-majority-of-nevada-delegates/2012/05/06/gIQA1An15T_blog.html
His supporters cause a major disturbance in the OK convention
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/ad-lib/2012/may/14/ron-paul-and-mitt-romney-supporters-brawl-oklahoma/
The article about OK has Paul on record saying he doesn't want to disrupt the RNC, he is just trying to get as many delegates as he can. Which doesn't make any sense at all when you consider that loosing by one gets you the same thing as loosing by 1000. I don't know what his real purpose is, but I'm guessing at very least he wants something from the party brass in exchange for not ruining the national convention. As for his supporting delegates, who the hell knows what they will do. They don't strike me as team players at any rate.
longship
(40,416 posts)I really do not think Paul has a ghost of a chance to win the nomination. And he is undoubtedly smart enough to know that as well. Furthermore, his age is against him for running in four years.
So why is he doing this? He seems to be replicating this in enough states that the Democratic party should be aware of this. Certainly the news media should be reporting it. But all we hear is crickets.
I am merely puzzled by the behavior and am wondering what the hell is going on and what the possible consequences are of ignoring it, or saying that it cannot be important.
I am no conspiracy theorist. But it does seem that Paul may be attempting what the fundie Christians did in the 70's and 80's. If so, shouldn't we as a party be paying attention?
Shouldn't we consider and try to find out how prevalent this behavior is to determine whether it can influence this or future elections?
Above all, I am asking questions because I just don't know what this means. But my Spidey sense is tingling because I have seen these tactics before.
Thanks for your questions and comments.
unc70
(6,095 posts)Can't remember which other states.
freshstart
(265 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 18, 2012, 12:58 PM - Edit history (3)
has been since the 1970s. I agree with your point of view.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=0u4vAAAAIBAJ&sjid=n_sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6540,2238463&dq=moral+majority+howard+phillips&hl=en
"Viguerie has long been associated with conservative activist Howard Phillips through creation of the Moral Majority in 1979."
"In January 2008, Viguerie launched ultimateronpaul.com, a website designed to promote the 2008 presidential candidacy of U.S. Congressman Ron Paul, whom Viguerie described as "truly a principled conservative in the grand tradition of Robert Taft, Barry Goldwater, and Ronald Reagan" and who "has differentiated himself from all the other candidates, whose allegiance is to Big Government Republicanism."[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Viguerie
The three of them involved in 1978...Ron Paul, Howard Phillips and Richard Viguerie.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=x20aAAAAIBAJ&sjid=iikEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6897,5399859&dq=ron+paul+howard+phillips+richard+viguerie+shadow+cabinet&hl=en
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)Yet almost everybody else, including Jeb Bush and Colin Powell, thinks the GOP has gone too far to the right. It's incredible that not even Mitt Robme is far enough to the right for them, considering he wants a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, he wants even lower taxes on "job creators" and higher taxes on everyone else, and he wants to cut all social programs.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)The RP followers want the small government, humble foreign policy platform that Bush RAN on, and then promptly abandoned when his ass started warming the chair in the Oval Office.
RP's domestic social services policy is of course abhorrent, he'd torch just about every safety net. But his foreign policy is fantastic.
Too bad, that the right foreign policy position comes with a poison pill like his social policy.
Paul is like the old-school Goldwater republican. Back when a Republican held an endorsement from Planned Parenthood. When gridlock and fillibuster wasn't republican policy step 1 in every last thing done in congress.
freshstart
(265 posts)I've done a ton of research on him over the years and his ties to the conservative caucus. They were heavy involved in the Contra scandal and have been sticking their nose in foreign policy. Personally, I think Ron Paul is full of shit. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=u4ksAAAAIBAJ&sjid=AM0EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6887,3659648&dq=ron+paul+shadow+cabinet&hl=en
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Nn9UAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Bo8DAAAAIBAJ&dq=conservative%20caucus%20china&pg=3554%2C613202
Dokkie
(1,688 posts)faking his anti interventionist stance, its just as believable as Saddam hiding his WMD because he was more afraid of the Iranians knowing he didn't have any WMD than the US thinking he had one.
If there is one thing true about Ron Paul is his foreign policy stance
dimbear
(6,271 posts)High hopes for this one.
tanyev
(42,358 posts)tawadi
(2,110 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Since the nuttier ones have no qualms of burning their party to the ground if their guy doesn't have a feature role...
dimbear
(6,271 posts)Romney will fold up like one of those fancy oriental fans, the ones decorated with jade and feathers.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)Iliyah
(25,111 posts)was an atheist, zip no love for GAWD, so today's Libertarian is a off set of her beliefs. They only took some ideals that they liked and ignores the rest.
Is it possible that Paul wants his son to be VP? I dunno, but like the a lot of the GOP, a lot of the Libertarians are nutso.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)They are both Randians and want the entire government to disappear. All of it.
They want a civil war to take place and feel they're in a position to benefit from it.
Papa Paul's staff has said they would install a theocracy later after getting in. The Christian Right leaders have embraced Mitt, forgetting their past depictions of Mormonism as a cult.
Religion isn't what this really is about. It's about money and power.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)They are fucking FROTHING about the primary process.
This is a lot of fun to watch.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Rand Paul: Would be 'an honor' to be Romney's VP
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/08/rand-paul-would-be-an-honor-to-be-romneys-vp/
Rand Paul Endorses Mitt Romney for President; Ron Paul Says He Can't Win GOP Nom
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/11664-rand-paul-endorses-mitt-romney-for-president-ron-paul-says-he-cant-win-gop-nom
There isn't a dime's worth of difference between the father and the son. The Paulbots despite being mad now, are still not going to vote for Obama against Romney. If they don't vote for Romney, those who are simply hating Obama will fall in line and Rand's supporters will see their future enshrined by seeing him as VP. They have a longer strategy in mind.
JMNO. We'll see who's right about it, you or me. But I am not happy about any drama at the GOP convention that will lead independents to think that the crank ideology of Paul or the vulture capitalist Romney are reasonable alternatives to Obama.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Having Rand as VP won't assuage the paulbots.
Not unless Romney simultaneously annouces taking up travelling in single-engine aircraft.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Dokkie
(1,688 posts)whose only goal is to defeat Obama have already joined the Romney camp. Only way to get the socialist, black Muslim off their white house
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)There is a clear divide between the paulbots and the baggers, and if my observations are correct, the paulbots are the minority.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)a say in our Party in California in the 1960s. We need to do this again.
On edit, the religious right took over beginning in the 1970s and worked their way to the presidency in 2000 if not before.
Now, the Paulites are trying to take over.
That tells me that, contrary to the propaganda on TV, the Republican Party is ideologically bankrupt and that various factions see it as up for grabs.
The demise of the Republican Party MAY be sooner than I would have thought possible a few years ago.
The Democratic Party -- 1968. It was a transformation of our party. The Party had achieved some of its purpose -- statutes insuring equal rights for theretofore oppressed groups. The old conservatives split off from the progressives. Clinton managed to keep everyone on board for his eight years. The ultimate fate of the Democratic Party is still uncertain.
Now, the fate of the Republican Party is coming in question. The Bush administration was a display of overconfidence -- and now, no matter what happens at the Republican convention, they will swing even further to the right as they try to keep the Paulists on board just for the votes.
Interesting times. Frightening times.
think
(11,641 posts)freshstart
(265 posts)That is their plan, they want to send their voters further right to Howard Phillips Constitution Party. Ron Paul has been closely tied to Phillips since the 1970s.
"But Phillips has his sights set on more than defeating Obama; he'd like to blow up the Republican Party as well. For more than a decade, Phillips has been hard at work building the infrastructure of the Constitution Party, which he believes could pick up the most socially right-leaning fragments of the GOP in the event of an intraparty split. If Barack Obama wins the presidency, Phillips believes, this could be that moment."
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2008/11/howard-phillips-world
gopiscrap
(23,674 posts)cbrer
(1,831 posts)Thanks Buddy!
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)than anyone else I can think of. He scared the GOP so badly in 2008 that they created the TEA party to try and channel his splinter group back into the mainstream nonsense that is the GOP.
The MSM tries their best to repeat the mantra that 'Ron Paul can't win' and then put everything that happens into that frame but the truth is Ron Paul could rip the weakened GOP in half.
For now Ron Paul is a big old libertarian harpoon in the Moby Dick that is Romney and it is going to be one hell of a ride.
freshstart
(265 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 18, 2012, 01:54 PM - Edit history (5)
Ron Paul is part of the GOP...and has been tied to the same people as Bush...Lewis Lehrman and others. My biggest issue with the media...why don't they expose Ron Paul? Ron Paul was part of the Citizens United. http://www.law.stanford.edu/publications/projects/campaignfinance/collection/paul/paul.11.6.pdf
Lewis Lehrman invests in Arbusto Oil...W's company. And he wrote a "Case for Gold" with Ron Paul. "The roster of prominent partners in Bush's oil ventures could have been extracted from a business world's who's who: drugstore magnate and onetime New York Republican gubernatorial candidate Lewis Lehrman and Lehrman family trusts ($140,500 over a three-year period)"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush073099.htm
Here is Lewis Lehrman at Ron Paul's hearing in 2011. This is Lehrman
He hired Doug Bandow. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?108392-Ron-Paul-Campaign-Announces-Addition-of-New-Policy-Advisors
Bandow is closely tied to Jack Abramoff. http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2005/nf20051216_1037_db016.htm
You have to scroll down to see that article.
Where did they get that Social Security was a ponzi scheme? Bandow was saying it on Ron Paul's website in 2002. http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/uncle-sams-retirement-scam/
Ron Paul's group FREE/NEFL - is funded by all Koch funded groups...and they were the ones that financed the tea party. I don't buy the b.s. that he's against the GOP. That is a myth, they work together. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Rational_Economics_and_Education
Ron Paul has been tied to the Koch brothers for years. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=OK1NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=0vsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5942,4020354&dq=ron+paul+citizens+for+a+sound+economy&hl=en
Citizens for a Sound Economy is FREEDOMWORKS a/k/a the "tea party" funded by the Koch brothers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_for_a_Sound_Economy
David Koch was an early financial backer.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=z0osAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ps4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=4875,3514845&dq=ron+paul+david+koch&hl=en
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)in a very similar run. If Ron Paul wants to stay in this thing and hurt Romney then he will and he will.
If he does on the Koch's money fine. The enemy of my enemy is my ally (sort of).
freshstart
(265 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 18, 2012, 06:02 PM - Edit history (5)
I think Ron Paul and his cult of followers are dangerous, period. These are the people that pushed the conversation further right. And, they'll continue to do so. In the 70s their goal was to take over both parties. I've got to dig a bit for that article.
"The new conservative group is non-partisan. Its goal is to muster up support for the conservative politicians in both parties and possibly mount an independent conservative candidate in 1976."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=btJOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LAIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7324,2668089&dq=conservative+caucus+take+over+both+parties&hl=en
"When the Democratic Party has twice as much support as the Republicans, they should receive 50% of our resources Viguerie says. We don't have to move millions of voters into the Democratic Party, they're already there."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=iXMjAAAAIBAJ&sjid=P2cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6851,5004978&dq=conservative+caucus+take+over+both+parties&hl=en
I have the full article on this..but I don't think I can post it because it is a pdf. http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30910FC3C5F137B93C1A81789D95F428785F9
Richard Viguerie, Howard Phillips and Ron Paul have been tied since the 1970s...and this is what they were after. I don't think they've changed much since then either. I don't take my eyes off what the kook is doing, because they've got a method to their madness and what they are up to isn't good.
The Koch brothers and their ilk should concern everyone interested in democracy. Ron Paul ties to them in many ways. "The donors, like regulars Foster Friess and Rich DeVos." http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77453_Page3.html#ixzz1yBT55vLs
The same Richard DeVos and his wife Betsy that funded Citizens United, which Ron Paul was a plaintiff on the side of.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/citizens-united-fec-return-corporate-influence-peddling/story?id=9545153
The same Betsy DeVos that is involved with undermining public education. This is her group and if you click on "policy leaders" you'll see Ron Paul is there as is Howard Phillips. http://www.schoolandstate.org/proclamation.htm
And, Ron Paul's Superpac is located in Utah and was founded by Ladd Christensen, a person who gave big $$ to Romney and who is Jon Huntsman's business partner. Think they don't play together at your own risk.
The b.s. about Ron Paul being a victim of the GOP is the same b.s. they floated about Sarah Palin and Palin had a majority of Bush people on her team. It is an effort to gain sympathy.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Because of course, the total picture of his issues is contradictory and batshit insane -- So he needs the goon squad to strong-arm people behind the scenes...
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)setting up for some kind of deal with Romney and the GOP leaders. Kochs write checks to Romney and Paul so perhaps they are good cop / bad cop'ing Romney.
Paul won early straw polls and came second in the Ames by .9% He took 21% of Iowa (to Romney's 25%), 23% of New Hampshire, 27% of Minnesota, etc. He is spoiling for something now.
The GOP and the MSM will try to figure out how to get Ron Paul's die hards to go to the polls in November and that won't be easy because Romney is no libertarian and he can't fake anything apparently. But Romney will try and it won't be pretty.
freshstart
(265 posts)You are on to what is going on. The Kochs give to Rand, but hide their donations to Ron through FREE-NEFL. It is the ideology that they push openly through Ron Paul. And, Ron Paul is not the "saint" that some people make him out to be. I highly doubt that a person with good intentions would have picked a person who was writing op-eds favorable to Jack Ambramoff for cash for a policy advisor. If you take his relationships back further, he is tied to Nelson Bunker Hunt...the clown that tried to corner the silver market with Saudis via the Federal Reserve. And, he wrote the book a "Case for Gold" with a long time associate of the Bush family. Ron Paul is full of shit....but he does things methodically. I'm still amazed the media hasn't gone after him, I can't figure that out.
Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #48)
Post removed