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Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:10 PM

Hawaii Becomes First State to Put Gun Owners in FBI Database

Source: Time

Hawaii passed a law making it the first state to put gun owners on a federal criminal record database and monitor them.

Hawaii Governor David Ige signed the bill Thursday, which allows police to enroll firearms applicants and individuals who are registering their firearms into “Rap Back,” a Federal Bureau of Investigation database that monitors criminal activities by people under investigation or in positions of trust, Reuters reported.

The law takes effect immediately. “Rap Back” allows Hawaii police to be notified when a Hawaii firearm owner is arrested anywhere in the U.S. In addition, the law allows Hawaii police to evaluate whether a firearm owner should continue owning a gun after being arrested.



Read more: http://time.com/4382831/hawaii-gun-control-fbi-database/



And so it begins.

61 replies, 4560 views

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Arrow 61 replies Author Time Post
Reply Hawaii Becomes First State to Put Gun Owners in FBI Database (Original post)
Calista241 Jun 2016 OP
Hoyt Jun 2016 #1
DustyJoe Jun 2016 #17
brett_jv Jun 2016 #18
maindawg Jun 2016 #23
Igel Jun 2016 #54
Major Nikon Jun 2016 #24
Igel Jun 2016 #55
Major Nikon Jun 2016 #59
onehandle Jun 2016 #2
JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #5
Orrex Jun 2016 #7
JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #8
Orrex Jun 2016 #10
TeddyR Jun 2016 #26
Orrex Jun 2016 #44
Skittles Jun 2016 #51
pnwmom Jun 2016 #11
TeddyR Jun 2016 #27
Major Nikon Jun 2016 #31
TeddyR Jun 2016 #33
Red Mountain Jun 2016 #40
hack89 Jun 2016 #21
TeddyR Jun 2016 #29
mainer Jun 2016 #3
IronLionZion Jun 2016 #16
Red Mountain Jun 2016 #41
IronLionZion Jun 2016 #45
24601 Jun 2016 #56
IronLionZion Jun 2016 #57
24601 Jun 2016 #58
mahina Jun 2016 #48
DustyJoe Jun 2016 #52
Solly Mack Jun 2016 #4
Scalded Nun Jun 2016 #6
Orrex Jun 2016 #9
NutmegYankee Jun 2016 #13
hack89 Jun 2016 #19
TeddyR Jun 2016 #30
Orrex Jun 2016 #43
Marengo Jun 2016 #61
hack89 Jun 2016 #20
jtuck004 Jun 2016 #12
Major Nikon Jun 2016 #25
jtuck004 Jun 2016 #38
Major Nikon Jun 2016 #39
IronLionZion Jun 2016 #14
jtuck004 Jun 2016 #15
Cryptoad Jun 2016 #22
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2016 #28
Major Nikon Jun 2016 #35
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2016 #37
SwankyXomb Jun 2016 #46
TeddyR Jun 2016 #47
lovemydog Jun 2016 #32
mahina Jun 2016 #49
lovemydog Jun 2016 #50
Leontius Jun 2016 #34
Red Mountain Jun 2016 #42
Name removed Jun 2016 #36
MariaThinks Jun 2016 #53
yurbud Jun 2016 #60

Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:15 PM

1. Smart move. Hope it spreads to other states.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:42 PM

17. lists and more lists

put gun owners on a federal criminal record database and monitor them.


Ok so buy a gun and get put on a federal 'criminal' database, you are now a criminal for purchasing an item totally legal to own.

This from a government that won't even put criminals illegally entering the country on any kind of list to monitor them.

Makes sense, NOT !

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Response to DustyJoe (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:54 PM

18. If they're 'entering the country illegally' doesn't that intrinsically imply ...

The government DOESN'T KNOW that they're entering the country, and hence such a list would be IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE?

I dunno ... sure seems like it to me but maybe I'm missing something ...

Also isn't there something called a 'no-fly' list that's ... something along those lines ... but actually POSSIBLE to have?

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Response to DustyJoe (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:21 PM

23. That is not what it says

 

Read, it says if a resident of Hawaii who owns a gun gets arrested that person is placed on a list of people who may require monitoring. So if you get arrested for say being violent ,thats a red flag.maybe you get arrested for not paying child support. Not a red flag.
When you buy a gun, you must register your gun and pass a background check so yes when you buy a gun you are put on a list.

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Response to maindawg (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 09:16 AM

54. It says quite clearly that you're put in the criminal-related database

as soon as you register you gun.

That way, if a gun-holder in HI is arrested anywhere in the country, the HI police know and can watch them more closely.

It doesn't say "convicted." If you're arrested for prostitution in NYC because you're walking on a certain street and then the police say, "Oh, oops, sorry. We were looking for somebody about your height and shape, but with different color hair and eyes", bam. The HI police know and can watch you more closely because you're a greater risk.

This is different from the "gun registration" list. In a sense, it's a duplication. In another sense, it means any time anybody checks to see if you've been arrested, immediately they know you've registered a gun. That's open to all police, everywhere in the country. It's like having a criminal record except it's like showing arrests--it just feeds suspicion.

I guess we like being suspicious. It's what keeps us going.

I also guess it's a good thing there aren't any racial skews in arrests without convictions. (Actually, if an employer pulls a police record even if you're not convicted, having an arrest makes it less likely you'll be hired. You have to show you're innocent. This way, you'll also have to deal with added suspicion from people who don't like that you have a gun. It's like not hiring somebody because they vote or speak freely on their own time. Punishment for exercise of a right by those who are above the law.)

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Response to DustyJoe (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:21 PM

24. Sure, just like teachers and daycare workers are now criminals



Rap Back
The Rap Back service allows authorized agencies to receive notification of activity on individuals who hold positions of trust (e.g. school teachers, daycare workers) or who are under criminal justice supervision or investigation, thus eliminating the need for repeated background checks on a person from the same applicant agency. Prior to the deployment of Rap Back, the national criminal history background check system provided a one-time snapshot view of an individual’s criminal history status. With Rap Back, authorized agencies can receive on-going status notifications of any criminal history reported to the FBI after the initial processing and retention of criminal or civil transactions. By using fingerprint identification to identify persons arrested and prosecuted for crimes, Rap Back provides a nationwide notice to both criminal justice and noncriminal justice authorities regarding subsequent actions.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #24)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 09:19 AM

55. I have no right to be a teacher.

They should also put everybody with a drivers license into the database.

And college students, so that if somebody's caught stealing or sexually assaulting anywhere in the country the college can take action.

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Response to Igel (Reply #55)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:36 AM

59. If you commit certain crimes you do not have the right to own a gun

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:32 PM

2. Tipping point reached, gun nuts. nt

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Response to onehandle (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:53 PM

5. Gun owners == Gun nuts?

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:01 PM

7. Interesting that you'd leap to that conclusion.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:03 PM

8. That is the conclusion implied by the juxtaposition of the post & OP

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #8)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:05 PM

10. I didn't see it that way. Interesting that you did.

I inferred that the post was a dig at "gun nuts," who will no doubt lose their minds over this minimal and long overdue step toward sensible gun legislation.

It didn't refer to sensible gun owners, as far as I can see.


Interesting that you'd draw that conclusion.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:32 PM

26. Finally!

 

All the criminals with guns will be in a database. The criminals will comply and register, right?

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Response to TeddyR (Reply #26)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 06:34 PM

44. You're right. Since laws can't work, should get rid of all of them.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:16 PM

51. it's part of the paranoia

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:06 PM

11. "Gun nuts" obviously refers to those who take the NRA position of opposing

ALL gun legislation, no matter what.

That doesn't include all gun owners.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:35 PM

27. As a gun owner

 

And someone who supports the 2d Amendment, I think of "gun nuts" as those who believe that the "shall not be infringed" language means no restrictions whatsoever of any type. There are folks on DU who think "gun nuts" are anyone who opposes complete confiscation of firearms.

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Response to TeddyR (Reply #27)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:51 PM

31. I know some gun owners that are paranoid to the point of mental illness

They keep loaded guns scattered throughout their homes, carry one or more of them wherever they go, and live in constant fear of being attacked. The same people live in genuine fear that any day now the government will kick in their door and take all their guns. I think it's safe to assume there are literally millions of these people throughout the US considering how popular various far right wing groups are in the US. Then you have the NRA and the GOP constantly stoking this fear through demagoguery. Those are the people I consider gun nuts.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #31)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 03:03 PM

33. Worked with a guy in the AF

 

Who had several firearms in his home, and several more buried in his yard in case the government took the ones in his home. I consider that unfounded paranoia.

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Response to TeddyR (Reply #33)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 06:14 PM

40. I know folks.....who keep a pistol in their pocket at work.

Paranoid about something or other.....no real need.

They own their work space so it's their choice....but damn.......

That afraid all the time?

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Response to onehandle (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:04 PM

21. You have been telling us that for over a decade.

history tells us you will be wrong again.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:38 PM

29. What is the tipping point?

 

Registration in a single state? I mean, how is registration in Hawaii going to prevent the gang-bangers in Chicago from shooting someone? And what does either have to do with the purchase of a handgun in Montana? Do you really think that any of the mountain states, the Midwest or the South (not to mention Vermont, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Arizona, etc.) are going to enact a registration requirement?

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:33 PM

3. Hawaii's fortunate in being able to actually control gun imports

Everything has to come in by plane or boat.

Also fortunate in being one of the safest states in the nation, so far less paranoia.

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Response to mainer (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:29 PM

16. And the first state attacked during WWII

which is what the freepers would say about it.



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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 06:16 PM

41. They'd have to make the case that gun control regulations in 1941

Somehow harmed the nation's or their ability to defend themselves.

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Response to Red Mountain (Reply #41)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 06:47 PM

45. Nutters have already made the case

that gun control caused the holocaust and WWII and invasions of most European countries.

They claim Switzerland escaped invasion because every house has a gun, not because they are in the mountains.



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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #16)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 09:43 AM

56. While anyone who passed US History would say that while Hawaii was attacked in WWII, it did not

become our 50th state until August 21, 1959.

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Response to 24601 (Reply #56)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 09:48 AM

57. Education and facts are for losers

You don't see Donald Trump held back by facts do you?



There is a strong anti-education sentiment running though the right wing of the Republican party. They think school makes you soft and sensitive.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #57)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 09:58 AM

58. Didn't know Trump was on DU these days. Nor do I believe our standards should mirror theirs. n/t

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Response to mainer (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:16 PM

48. Sort of, domestic violence aside.

Also, you can check a rifle in a suitcase. Just can't take it on board as a carry on.

But I was happy to see us at the bottom of the gun violence list. We're # 50, we're # 50, woohoo!

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Response to mainer (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 11:52 PM

52. islands

I have seen the same point made by others when posters say we need to be like Australia and they are reminded an island can control everything happening or coming and going. The US mainland is not an island. The South American continent and mexico is armed to the teeth with full military weaponry such as the cartels right at the border and within our border. I don't see any disarmament, confiscation, restriction ever working, especially with absolutely no border controls as we haven't had for years. All that will happen is that mexican arms runners side by side with the drug runners will get very very rich.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:44 PM

4. K&R

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:56 PM

6. If they can pull this off, then I'd like to see this...

Every gun registered would be fired and the striations registered. It's life would be trackable, pretty much like fingerprints. Would not solve unregistered guns, but it would be a great layer.

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Response to Scalded Nun (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:04 PM

9. It was recently stated to me

That such "ballistic fingerprinting" is unworkable because guns are so fragile and precious that simply firing them a few times eliminates all possibility that any record can be maintained of its firing characteristics.

Yes, we've invented a magical machine that can't be regulated, overseen or tracked by any power known to humankind.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:16 PM

13. It's called mechanical wear, and is inherent to most mechanical systems.

Hell, even with oil pumped right into them at 30+ psi the bearings in your car engine will wear out and fail. Based on the engine design and type of use, the mean time to failure will vary.

In firearms the wear is the friction between the bullet and the barrel as well as acid that forms from the propellant.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:01 PM

19. I change barrels on my rifles every couple of years.

people don't appreciate the heat and stress guns are subjected to. An AR-15 barrel is only good for 10,000 rounds before the accuracy is significantly degraded (in the context of competitive target shooting).

Talking from a position of perceived moral superiority but technical ignorance is why the gun control movement fails time and time again.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:43 PM

30. Maryland and New York

 

Both enacted ballistic fingerprinting laws, and both spent millions of dollars on the law, and both abandoned the law after it failed to solve a single crime. Here's a story in the WaPo explaining how the states spent a bunch of money on a useless tool - https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marylands-long-overdue-goodbye-to-ballistic-fingerprinting/2015/11/13/a277d02a-87db-11e5-be39-0034bb576eee_story.html

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Response to TeddyR (Reply #30)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 06:32 PM

43. Partial measures can't succeed, obviously.

You can't drain the middle of a lake. So tracking the guns in one small area can't possibly work, as long as guns can get in from the outside.

If you disagree, then please explain how you think such a partial system could work.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 05:30 PM

61. What are "firing characteristics"?

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Response to Scalded Nun (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:03 PM

20. Do your fingerprints change over time?

because those striations most definitely will.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:07 PM

12. Not a big deal. It's been the FBI's job to catalog and harass people who dare to assert

 

their use of our rights for as long as I have known about them.

Heck, there's probably more than one DU member who is described in an FBI file somewhere. They will just move in another file cabinet. for these.

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:28 PM

25. Do you think teachers and daycare workers are being harassed by the FBI?

Rap Back
The Rap Back service allows authorized agencies to receive notification of activity on individuals who hold positions of trust (e.g. school teachers, daycare workers) or who are under criminal justice supervision or investigation, thus eliminating the need for repeated background checks on a person from the same applicant agency. Prior to the deployment of Rap Back, the national criminal history background check system provided a one-time snapshot view of an individual’s criminal history status. With Rap Back, authorized agencies can receive on-going status notifications of any criminal history reported to the FBI after the initial processing and retention of criminal or civil transactions. By using fingerprint identification to identify persons arrested and prosecuted for crimes, Rap Back provides a nationwide notice to both criminal justice and noncriminal justice authorities regarding subsequent actions.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #25)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 05:10 PM

38. I guess you think that's a good thing. Does it keep track of the number of black kids who wind

 

up in jail after problems with that instructor or principal, vs white kids? We (as a country) had teachers in Boston who kept wooden switches in vinegar in the basement because the black kid's skin was tougher. Not the only instances. Think there is a line for that shit?

What you describe is a just a book of death, reactive, only necessary if the job of prevention fails. But it is also a list of criminals.

Whereas what is being discussed is a list of people who are doing nothing but exercising a right, have done nothing illegal. A list kept by law enforcement, an agency which has a history of going on witch hunts against innocent Americans.

People think they are safer, having given up their privacy. Clearly they are not.

You can read up on COINTELPRO. Or not.

Having lived through the 60s I am quite sure there are damn few groups the FBI hasn't gathered at least some information on, and what they have done with some of it gives non-randos pause. The rest,including people who can't stay on topic, are just twitter fodder for the compost heap.


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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #38)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 05:19 PM

39. I think that was a funny read

And you should be commended for it.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:19 PM

14. When the Soviets invade America, they'll know where to look





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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #14)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:22 PM

15. If the real estate swindler gets elected, I think signs saying "He's that-a-way" are

 

gonna be coming into vogue.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:14 PM

22. Well its about time,,,,,

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:38 PM

28. Ammosexuals "What part of 'shall not be infringed' confuses them!!!!"....

 

The rest of us: "What part of 'well regulated militia' confuses YOU???"

Lather, rinse, repeat.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #28)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 03:11 PM

35. Kinda telling how RTKBA doesn't include WRM

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #35)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 04:41 PM

37. That's because they're fans of deregulation too.

 

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #35)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 07:36 PM

46. Like all right wingers

they only believe in the parts of the Constitution that benefit them at this moment.

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Response to SwankyXomb (Reply #46)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 07:39 PM

47. I like the due process part of the Constitution

 

Informal poll, starting with SwankyXomb - which DU members think that due process is an outdated right?

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:54 PM

32. Aloha and mahalo

to the good people in Hawaii.

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Response to lovemydog (Reply #32)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:20 PM

49. Aloha kakou!

Is your dog a Goldie?

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Response to mahina (Reply #49)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:00 PM

50. Aloha kakou!

No, the goldie is just a free avatar that I got from this site. My dog was a gorgeous mix of australian cattle dog and aussie shepherd.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 03:08 PM

34. Bullshit law.

 

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Response to Leontius (Reply #34)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 06:19 PM

42. Gotta start somewhere.

With the regulation bit.

We've got the other part down pat.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)


Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 09:10 AM

53. Very smart move

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:21 PM

60. How about taking guns away from stalkers and sex offenders?

Previously, Ige had signed a law that disqualifies people convicted of stalking and sexual assault from owning a gun and a law that requires firearm owners diagnosed with a mental, behavioral or emotional disorder to surrender their firearms.


Do law-abiding people who own guns disagree with this part?

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