Hawaii Becomes First State to Put Gun Owners in FBI Database

[Calista241]

Source: Time

Hawaii passed a law making it the first state to put gun owners on a federal criminal record database and monitor them.

Hawaii Governor David Ige signed the bill Thursday, which allows police to enroll firearms applicants and individuals who are registering their firearms into “Rap Back,” a Federal Bureau of Investigation database that monitors criminal activities by people under investigation or in positions of trust, Reuters reported.

The law takes effect immediately. “Rap Back” allows Hawaii police to be notified when a Hawaii firearm owner is arrested anywhere in the U.S. In addition, the law allows Hawaii police to evaluate whether a firearm owner should continue owning a gun after being arrested.



Read more: http://time.com/4382831/hawaii-gun-control-fbi-database/

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And so it begins.

[Hoyt]

1. Smart move. Hope it spreads to other states.

[DustyJoe]

17. lists and more lists

put gun owners on a federal criminal record database and monitor them.

Ok so buy a gun and get put on a federal 'criminal' database, you are now a criminal for purchasing an item totally legal to own.

This from a government that won't even put criminals illegally entering the country on any kind of list to monitor them.

Makes sense, NOT !

[brett_jv]

18. If they're 'entering the country illegally' doesn't that intrinsically imply ...

The government DOESN'T KNOW that they're entering the country, and hence such a list would be IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE?

I dunno ... sure seems like it to me but maybe I'm missing something ...

Also isn't there something called a 'no-fly' list that's ... something along those lines ... but actually POSSIBLE to have?

[maindawg]

23. That is not what it says

Read, it says if a resident of Hawaii who owns a gun gets arrested that person is placed on a list of people who may require monitoring. So if you get arrested for say being violent ,thats a red flag.maybe you get arrested for not paying child support. Not a red flag.
When you buy a gun, you must register your gun and pass a background check so yes when you buy a gun you are put on a list.

[Igel]

54. It says quite clearly that you're put in the criminal-related database

as soon as you register you gun.

That way, if a gun-holder in HI is arrested anywhere in the country, the HI police know and can watch them more closely.

It doesn't say "convicted." If you're arrested for prostitution in NYC because you're walking on a certain street and then the police say, "Oh, oops, sorry. We were looking for somebody about your height and shape, but with different color hair and eyes", bam. The HI police know and can watch you more closely because you're a greater risk.

This is different from the "gun registration" list. In a sense, it's a duplication. In another sense, it means any time anybody checks to see if you've been arrested, immediately they know you've registered a gun. That's open to all police, everywhere in the country. It's like having a criminal record except it's like showing arrests--it just feeds suspicion.

I guess we like being suspicious. It's what keeps us going.

I also guess it's a good thing there aren't any racial skews in arrests without convictions. (Actually, if an employer pulls a police record even if you're not convicted, having an arrest makes it less likely you'll be hired. You have to show you're innocent. This way, you'll also have to deal with added suspicion from people who don't like that you have a gun. It's like not hiring somebody because they vote or speak freely on their own time. Punishment for exercise of a right by those who are above the law.)

[Major Nikon]

24. Sure, just like teachers and daycare workers are now criminals

Rap Back
The Rap Back service allows authorized agencies to receive notification of activity on individuals who hold positions of trust (e.g. school teachers, daycare workers) or who are under criminal justice supervision or investigation, thus eliminating the need for repeated background checks on a person from the same applicant agency. Prior to the deployment of Rap Back, the national criminal history background check system provided a one-time snapshot view of an individual’s criminal history status. With Rap Back, authorized agencies can receive on-going status notifications of any criminal history reported to the FBI after the initial processing and retention of criminal or civil transactions. By using fingerprint identification to identify persons arrested and prosecuted for crimes, Rap Back provides a nationwide notice to both criminal justice and noncriminal justice authorities regarding subsequent actions.

[Igel]

55. I have no right to be a teacher.

They should also put everybody with a drivers license into the database.

And college students, so that if somebody's caught stealing or sexually assaulting anywhere in the country the college can take action.

[Major Nikon]

59. If you commit certain crimes you do not have the right to own a gun

[onehandle]

2. Tipping point reached, gun nuts. nt

[JonLeibowitz]

5. Gun owners == Gun nuts?

[Orrex]

7. Interesting that you'd leap to that conclusion.

[JonLeibowitz]

8. That is the conclusion implied by the juxtaposition of the post & OP

[Orrex]

10. I didn't see it that way. Interesting that you did.

I inferred that the post was a dig at "gun nuts," who will no doubt lose their minds over this minimal and long overdue step toward sensible gun legislation.

It didn't refer to sensible gun owners, as far as I can see.


Interesting that you'd draw that conclusion.

[TeddyR]

26. Finally!

All the criminals with guns will be in a database. The criminals will comply and register, right?

[Orrex]

44. You're right. Since laws can't work, should get rid of all of them.

[Skittles]

51. it's part of the paranoia

[pnwmom]

11. "Gun nuts" obviously refers to those who take the NRA position of opposing

ALL gun legislation, no matter what.

That doesn't include all gun owners.

[TeddyR]

27. As a gun owner

And someone who supports the 2d Amendment, I think of "gun nuts" as those who believe that the "shall not be infringed" language means no restrictions whatsoever of any type. There are folks on DU who think "gun nuts" are anyone who opposes complete confiscation of firearms.

[Major Nikon]

31. I know some gun owners that are paranoid to the point of mental illness

They keep loaded guns scattered throughout their homes, carry one or more of them wherever they go, and live in constant fear of being attacked. The same people live in genuine fear that any day now the government will kick in their door and take all their guns. I think it's safe to assume there are literally millions of these people throughout the US considering how popular various far right wing groups are in the US. Then you have the NRA and the GOP constantly stoking this fear through demagoguery. Those are the people I consider gun nuts.

[TeddyR]

33. Worked with a guy in the AF

Who had several firearms in his home, and several more buried in his yard in case the government took the ones in his home. I consider that unfounded paranoia.

[Red Mountain]

40. I know folks.....who keep a pistol in their pocket at work.

Paranoid about something or other.....no real need.

They own their work space so it's their choice....but damn.......

That afraid all the time?

[hack89]

21. You have been telling us that for over a decade.

history tells us you will be wrong again.

[TeddyR]

29. What is the tipping point?

Registration in a single state? I mean, how is registration in Hawaii going to prevent the gang-bangers in Chicago from shooting someone? And what does either have to do with the purchase of a handgun in Montana? Do you really think that any of the mountain states, the Midwest or the South (not to mention Vermont, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Arizona, etc.) are going to enact a registration requirement?

[mainer]

3. Hawaii's fortunate in being able to actually control gun imports

Everything has to come in by plane or boat.

Also fortunate in being one of the safest states in the nation, so far less paranoia.

[IronLionZion]

16. And the first state attacked during WWII

which is what the freepers would say about it.

[Red Mountain]

41. They'd have to make the case that gun control regulations in 1941

Somehow harmed the nation's or their ability to defend themselves.

[IronLionZion]

45. Nutters have already made the case

that gun control caused the holocaust and WWII and invasions of most European countries.

They claim Switzerland escaped invasion because every house has a gun, not because they are in the mountains.

[24601]

56. While anyone who passed US History would say that while Hawaii was attacked in WWII, it did not

become our 50th state until August 21, 1959.

[IronLionZion]

57. Education and facts are for losers

You don't see Donald Trump held back by facts do you?



There is a strong anti-education sentiment running though the right wing of the Republican party. They think school makes you soft and sensitive.

[24601]

58. Didn't know Trump was on DU these days. Nor do I believe our standards should mirror theirs. n/t

[mahina]

48. Sort of, domestic violence aside.

Also, you can check a rifle in a suitcase. Just can't take it on board as a carry on.

But I was happy to see us at the bottom of the gun violence list. We're # 50, we're # 50, woohoo!

[DustyJoe]

52. islands

I have seen the same point made by others when posters say we need to be like Australia and they are reminded an island can control everything happening or coming and going. The US mainland is not an island. The South American continent and mexico is armed to the teeth with full military weaponry such as the cartels right at the border and within our border. I don't see any disarmament, confiscation, restriction ever working, especially with absolutely no border controls as we haven't had for years. All that will happen is that mexican arms runners side by side with the drug runners will get very very rich.

[Solly Mack]

4. K&R

[Scalded Nun]

6. If they can pull this off, then I'd like to see this...

Every gun registered would be fired and the striations registered. It's life would be trackable, pretty much like fingerprints. Would not solve unregistered guns, but it would be a great layer.

[Orrex]

9. It was recently stated to me

That such "ballistic fingerprinting" is unworkable because guns are so fragile and precious that simply firing them a few times eliminates all possibility that any record can be maintained of its firing characteristics.

Yes, we've invented a magical machine that can't be regulated, overseen or tracked by any power known to humankind.

[NutmegYankee]

13. It's called mechanical wear, and is inherent to most mechanical systems.

Hell, even with oil pumped right into them at 30+ psi the bearings in your car engine will wear out and fail. Based on the engine design and type of use, the mean time to failure will vary.

In firearms the wear is the friction between the bullet and the barrel as well as acid that forms from the propellant.

[hack89]

19. I change barrels on my rifles every couple of years.

people don't appreciate the heat and stress guns are subjected to. An AR-15 barrel is only good for 10,000 rounds before the accuracy is significantly degraded (in the context of competitive target shooting).

Talking from a position of perceived moral superiority but technical ignorance is why the gun control movement fails time and time again.

[TeddyR]

30. Maryland and New York

Both enacted ballistic fingerprinting laws, and both spent millions of dollars on the law, and both abandoned the law after it failed to solve a single crime. Here's a story in the WaPo explaining how the states spent a bunch of money on a useless tool - https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marylands-long-overdue-goodbye-to-ballistic-fingerprinting/2015/11/13/a277d02a-87db-11e5-be39-0034bb576eee_story.html

[Orrex]

43. Partial measures can't succeed, obviously.

You can't drain the middle of a lake. So tracking the guns in one small area can't possibly work, as long as guns can get in from the outside.

If you disagree, then please explain how you think such a partial system could work.

[Marengo]

61. What are "firing characteristics"?

[hack89]

20. Do your fingerprints change over time?

because those striations most definitely will.

[jtuck004]

12. Not a big deal. It's been the FBI's job to catalog and harass people who dare to assert

their use of our rights for as long as I have known about them.

Heck, there's probably more than one DU member who is described in an FBI file somewhere. They will just move in another file cabinet. for these.

[Major Nikon]

25. Do you think teachers and daycare workers are being harassed by the FBI?

Rap Back
The Rap Back service allows authorized agencies to receive notification of activity on individuals who hold positions of trust (e.g. school teachers, daycare workers) or who are under criminal justice supervision or investigation, thus eliminating the need for repeated background checks on a person from the same applicant agency. Prior to the deployment of Rap Back, the national criminal history background check system provided a one-time snapshot view of an individual’s criminal history status. With Rap Back, authorized agencies can receive on-going status notifications of any criminal history reported to the FBI after the initial processing and retention of criminal or civil transactions. By using fingerprint identification to identify persons arrested and prosecuted for crimes, Rap Back provides a nationwide notice to both criminal justice and noncriminal justice authorities regarding subsequent actions.

[jtuck004]

38. I guess you think that's a good thing. Does it keep track of the number of black kids who wind

up in jail after problems with that instructor or principal, vs white kids? We (as a country) had teachers in Boston who kept wooden switches in vinegar in the basement because the black kid's skin was tougher. Not the only instances. Think there is a line for that shit?

What you describe is a just a book of death, reactive, only necessary if the job of prevention fails. But it is also a list of criminals.

Whereas what is being discussed is a list of people who are doing nothing but exercising a right, have done nothing illegal. A list kept by law enforcement, an agency which has a history of going on witch hunts against innocent Americans.

People think they are safer, having given up their privacy. Clearly they are not.

You can read up on COINTELPRO. Or not.

Having lived through the 60s I am quite sure there are damn few groups the FBI hasn't gathered at least some information on, and what they have done with some of it gives non-randos pause. The rest,including people who can't stay on topic, are just twitter fodder for the compost heap.

[Major Nikon]

39. I think that was a funny read

And you should be commended for it.

[IronLionZion]

14. When the Soviets invade America, they'll know where to look

[jtuck004]

15. If the real estate swindler gets elected, I think signs saying "He's that-a-way" are

gonna be coming into vogue.

[Cryptoad]

22. Well its about time,,,,,

[Spitfire of ATJ]

28. Ammosexuals "What part of 'shall not be infringed' confuses them!!!!"....

The rest of us: "What part of 'well regulated militia' confuses YOU???"

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[Major Nikon]

35. Kinda telling how RTKBA doesn't include WRM

[Spitfire of ATJ]

37. That's because they're fans of deregulation too.

[SwankyXomb]

46. Like all right wingers

they only believe in the parts of the Constitution that benefit them at this moment.

[TeddyR]

47. I like the due process part of the Constitution

Informal poll, starting with SwankyXomb - which DU members think that due process is an outdated right?

[lovemydog]

32. Aloha and mahalo

to the good people in Hawaii.

[mahina]

49. Aloha kakou!

Is your dog a Goldie?

[lovemydog]

50. Aloha kakou!

No, the goldie is just a free avatar that I got from this site. My dog was a gorgeous mix of australian cattle dog and aussie shepherd.

[Leontius]

34. Bullshit law.

[Red Mountain]

42. Gotta start somewhere.

With the regulation bit.

We've got the other part down pat.

[MariaThinks]

53. Very smart move

[yurbud]

60. How about taking guns away from stalkers and sex offenders?

Previously, Ige had signed a law that disqualifies people convicted of stalking and sexual assault from owning a gun and a law that requires firearm owners diagnosed with a mental, behavioral or emotional disorder to surrender their firearms.

Do law-abiding people who own guns disagree with this part?