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uhnope

(6,419 posts)
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 07:53 AM Jul 2016

Airstrikes kill at least 12 in rebel-held Aleppo

Source: Daily Star

BEIRUT/MOSCOW: A series of airstrikes on rebel-held areas of Syria’s divided Aleppo city killed at least 12 Thursday, activist groups said.

The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said at least 12 people, including seven women and children, were killed when airstrikes hit the Salheen and Tariq al-Bab districts, in the rebel-held parts of Aleppo city. The Local Coordination Committees, another anti-government activist group, said five children were among those killed in Tariq al-Bab neighborhood.

Ibrahim al-Haj, a member of the team of Syrian Civil Defense first responders, said the strikes hit a residential house and a mosque opposite it. He said at least four people remain under the rubble.

Read more: https://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2016/Jul-15/362145-airstrikes-kill-at-least-12-in-rebel-held-aleppo.ashx

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uawchild

(2,208 posts)
1. It's past time for a negotiated peace
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:06 AM
Jul 2016

From the OP article:

"The Observatory also reported that Daesh militants shot down a plane near the Deir al-Zor military airport, which is controlled by government forces, adding that the militant group had later “crucified” the body of the pilot."

Daesh (aka ISIS) cannot be stopped as long as the civil war between the Syrian government and the Sunni Islamist Rebels continues. These atrocities will continue as long as the civil war does.

The problem is that a peace deal that empowers the Sunni majority AND protects the rights of women and religious minorities seems almost impossible as long as we, the US, continues to fund "moderate" Wahhabist rebels. The Wahhabists will subjugate women as they already demonstrate in Saudi Arabia itself.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
5. I would still be wary of quoting them.
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 11:11 AM
Jul 2016

Since they have been outed he is "sprinkling" a few oppositional narratives in trying to rehabilitate his name. Probably he is trying to keep the easy money that these people get for promoting narratives going.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
2. Syrian Observatory for Human Rights has been discredited as a propaganda
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:52 AM
Jul 2016

organ and it's primary purpose is to continually create narratives, not investigate accurately.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
3. Guardian: The Syrian opposition: who's doing the talking?
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 11:08 AM
Jul 2016

There is a lot of money to be made creating narratives. Creating propaganda organs that can then blast the media with war narratives is one of the new orwellian constructs of modern war (as is creating or funding "Charity" NGOs to give a look of legitimacy to war fronting organizations).
We live in new times where propaganda is sophisticated and widespread.

The Syrian opposition: who's doing the talking?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jul/12/syrian-opposition-doing-the-talking

The media have been too passive when it comes to Syrian opposition sources, without scrutinising their backgrounds and their political connections. Time for a closer look …

The money

This is nothing new. Go back a while to early 2006, and you have the state department announcing a new "funding opportunity" called the "Syria Democracy Program". On offer, grants worth "$5m in Federal Fiscal Year 2006". The aim of the grants? "To accelerate the work of reformers in Syria."

These days, the cash is flowing in faster than ever. At the beginning of June 2012, the Syrian Business Forum was launched in Doha by opposition leaders including Wael Merza (SNC secretary general). "This fund has been established to support all components of the revolution in Syria," said Merza. The size of the fund? Some $300m. It's by no means clear where the money has come from, although Merza "hinted at strong financial support from Gulf Arab states for the new fund" (Al Jazeera). At the launch, Merza said that about $150m had already been spent, in part on the Free Syrian Army.

Merza's group of Syrian businessmen made an appearance at a World Economic Forum conference titled the "Platform for International Co-operation" held in Istanbul in November 2011. All part of the process whereby the SNC has grown in reputation, to become, in the words of William Hague, "a legitimate representative of the Syrian people" – and able, openly, to handle this much funding.

Building legitimacy – of opposition, of representation, of intervention – is the essential propaganda battle.


uawchild

(2,208 posts)
4. Its ok that he posts from propaganda organs, as you call them
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 11:10 AM
Jul 2016

It doesn't matter if he posts from known propaganda organs such as Radio Free Europe, or Radio Liberty, or even this Syrian Observatory of Human Rights. People here on DU can judge the original articles for themselves, when he bothers to provide links to them, sometimes he does not.

We are also all free to take issue with what he chooses to post here. I do find it strange though that almost NONE of the civilian casualties on the Syrian government side ever seem to get mentioned, especially by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.

I often post articles from RT -Russia Today, another state run propaganda organ, because I find that both our and Russia's propaganda has gotten sophisticated enough to tell SELECTIVE truths about the other side, they no longer lie outright. So, RT often posts good articles, as does Radio Free Europe. I realize however that there is an implicit bias from RT to present THEIR view of what's important, the person you are discussing does not do the same for Radio Free Europe or for the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, however.

Here's a little info from the Radio Propaganda article on Wikipedia that discusses, Radio Liberty and Radio Free Europe:

"Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty is a broadcaster funded by the United States Congress that provides news, information, and analysis to countries in Eastern Europe, Central Asia, and the Middle East "where the free flow of information is either banned by government authorities or not fully developed".[63] RFE/RL is supervised by the Broadcasting Board of Governors, alongside Voice of America.

Founded as an anti-Communist propaganda source during the Cold War, RFE/RL was headquartered in Munich, Germany, from 1949 to 1995. In 1995, the headquarters were moved to Prague in the Czech Republic, where operations have been significantly reduced since the end of the Cold War. In addition to the headquarters, the service maintains 20 local bureaus in countries throughout their broadcast region, including a corporate office in Washington, D.C. RFE/RL broadcasts in 28 languages to 21 countries[64] including Russia, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq.

RFE/RL was developed out of a belief that the Cold War would eventually be fought by political rather than military means.[65] American policymakers such as George Kennan and John Foster Dulles acknowledged that the Cold War was essentially a “war of ideas”.[66] The United States, acting through the Central Intelligence Agency, funded a long list of projects to counter the Communist appeal in Europe and the developing world.[67] The missions of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty were separate from Voice of America in the sense that VOA was meant to be the voice of America, reflecting American foreign policy and disseminating world news from an official American viewpoint, whereas RFE/RL has the mission of captivating people and stimulating non-cooperation in Communist countries."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_propaganda#Radio_Free_Europe.2FRadio_Liberty

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
6. Propaganda infused through Narrative "Mills" is much more sophisticated
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 11:24 AM
Jul 2016

(and dangerous). (Which is why I post on this topic).

You make a good point though.

I agree that RFE as a source (or RT), in which their funding organizations are known and transparent are one thing.

I suppose that these postings do offer the opportunity to expose biased narrative producing organs though. I don't think that folks are all that aware fully of the nature of the information distortion that is occurring in our own media. In fact it is much more sophisticated than "RT", which actually reports more accurately concerning foreign affairs and actually does frequently offer non mainstream voices a platform).

uawchild

(2,208 posts)
7. Excellent point your title said it succinctly
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 12:06 PM
Jul 2016

You are very on target. Such narrative "mills" as the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a self-admitted one man operation that takes phone calls from sources (somewhat limited and one sided sources it seems), can and does churn out endless reports that then get amplified in the media pushing a biased agenda.

All those "news" articles allows people like the one here to post thread after thread of "Late Breaking News" here on DU to push their own narrative.

Igel

(35,197 posts)
8. Ultimately that's just ad hominem.
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 12:25 PM
Jul 2016

They can't be trusted to be accurate because they're the sort of people who can't be trusted.

The problems with things like Izvestiya and Pravda of yore and their modern equivalents like RT isn't just inaccuracy. They often were just out-and-out demonstrably in error. "The sky is orange because it's made of that famous French orange cheese we make fish dressing out of" in error. Thing is, unless you were clever you couldn't spot the error. "Through incredible effort and mobilizing university students, grade school students, and government workers we succeeded in bringing in almost all of the potato harvest" was a great thing, but it pointed to abysmal error and inefficiency, and could be translated into plain-speak as, "We barely managed to avert a famine caused by poor farming, inadequate numbers of tractors, and corrupt practices that let a lot of food spoil before the command-and-control freaks at the top could decide where to ship in."

Often the translation wasn't as staight forward.

The main problem with such media organs, though, isn't that they're organs but because they're a sort of informational Gresham's law that's put into statute. You have to read between the lines because there aren't other lines to read. It used to be that governments forced blinders on people; now people put blinders on themselves and lock themselves in sensory deprivation chambers (except for their Google glass and earbuds, but they like to think they have control over those).

In the case of the Syrian information sources, there are only three. The first is having reporters on the ground--this isn't a winning proposition, so it's not a prominent option. Then there's the official Syrian news source, which may be ignorant of what happens behind enemy lines, but has a very clear bias, as did Pravda and Izvestiya; and there are informal sources like the Observatory, which has better connections in rebel-held territory. Neither side is neutral. But banning the Observatory lets stand the Assad News Agency, more or less unchallenged. I don't know if this is by intent or reflex.

In any event, it's better two have two oppositely biased news sources than just one biased news source.

It's why Russians listened to RFE and VOA. It wasn't the monotonic Party line. It may not always be accurate, but it would be inaccurate in ways different from the crap they knew they were getting. Dispose of RFE and VOA, and all you're left is a symphony of one rather boring melody. At least with two or three you could get some counterpoint, maybe even a fugue, and possibly build harmony instead of state-mandated perpetual unisons.

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