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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 08:44 PM Jul 2016

U.S. ordered to lower Navy sonar levels to protect whales

Source: SF Gate

U.S. officials have wrongly allowed the Navy to use sonar at levels that could harm whales and other marine mammals in the world’s oceans, a federal appeals court in San Francisco has ruled.

The decision Friday by the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals would scale back the Navy’s use of low-frequency sonar in the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian oceans and the Mediterranean Sea under authority that was granted in 2012.

Sonar, used to detect submarines, can injure whales, seals and walruses and disrupt their feeding and mating. Environmental groups led by the Natural Resources Defense Council filed suit in San Francisco in 2012, arguing that the Obama administration had approved emissions at sound levels that violated the Marine Mammal Protection Act.

A federal magistrate disagreed but was overruled Friday by the appeals court, which said government officials had disregarded their own experts’ warnings about the potential impacts of sonar.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/U-S-ordered-to-lower-Navy-sonar-levels-to-8381417.php

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U.S. ordered to lower Navy sonar levels to protect whales (Original Post) n2doc Jul 2016 OP
K&R - it's nice to see a bit of good news. nt scarletwoman Jul 2016 #1
Excellent news. Calista241 Jul 2016 #2
Being a whale or a seal during WW2 must have really sucked. PersonNumber503602 Jul 2016 #3
everything old is new again reddread Jul 2016 #5
some details reddread Jul 2016 #6
I wasn't doubting the harm sonar can caused on sea life. PersonNumber503602 Jul 2016 #7
Probably a little of both. Ultra low frequency sonar wasn't viable until the 1950s. Statistical Jul 2016 #8
They should just put buoys on the subs so they can be spotted without sonar. PersonNumber503602 Jul 2016 #12
in here reddread Jul 2016 #16
There would be sure be people who would argue for the whales. Igel Jul 2016 #9
So snarky, you're saying you don't give a fuck... Duppers Jul 2016 #10
Why would you assume I meant it like that? PersonNumber503602 Jul 2016 #11
Convinced me. Duppers Jul 2016 #22
It's about damn time! WhiteTara Jul 2016 #4
That's what I was going to say! Rhiannon12866 Jul 2016 #15
I have been saying this for YEARS. It's not frigging rocket science. MADem Jul 2016 #13
They should continue to work on it until the problem is eliminated. Judi Lynn Jul 2016 #14
+ 1 red dog 1 Jul 2016 #20
Great news Liberal_in_LA Jul 2016 #17
At last! MBS Jul 2016 #18
Thank you, thank you!!!!!!!!! lark Jul 2016 #19
K&R red dog 1 Jul 2016 #21

Calista241

(5,584 posts)
2. Excellent news.
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 09:00 PM
Jul 2016

My impression was that the Navy didn't use active sonar all that often, but if it helps the whales and other wildlife, i'm all for it.

PersonNumber503602

(1,134 posts)
3. Being a whale or a seal during WW2 must have really sucked.
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:21 PM
Jul 2016

I take it that these rules would go away if there was ever a major war with a country that has a navy, aye?

PersonNumber503602

(1,134 posts)
7. I wasn't doubting the harm sonar can caused on sea life.
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:39 PM
Jul 2016

I was just thinking how much damage a large scale war like WW2 must have caused.

Although reading that wiki link, I didn't see anything mentioned about WW2. I wonder if that was just because they didn't do any studies/pay attention, or if if the older technology didn't have the same negative effects.

Statistical

(19,264 posts)
8. Probably a little of both. Ultra low frequency sonar wasn't viable until the 1950s.
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:48 PM
Jul 2016

The lower the frequency the further is goes. Honestly the ocean is reallllllllllly big so the sheer size of it helps sea life because statistically a sub can only be covering a small portion of it. Ultra low frequency gear greatly increases the ping range. So part of it is that newer tech is just more dangerous.

However I doubt anyone really cared to do any studies with a war going on so it probably was pretty damaging to aquatic life.

 

reddread

(6,896 posts)
16. in here
Sat Jul 16, 2016, 02:18 AM
Jul 2016

"American low frequency sonar was originally introduced to the general public in a June 1961 Time magazine article, New A.S.W.[Note 1] Project Artemis, the low-frequency sonar used at the time, could fill a whole ocean with searching sound and spot anything sizable that was moving in the water. Artemis grew out of a 1951 suggestion by Harvard physicist Frederick V. Hunt (Artemis is the Ancient Greek goddess of the hunt), who convinced Navy anti-submarine experts that submarines could be detected at great distances only by unheard-of volumes of low-pitched sound"

Igel

(35,191 posts)
9. There would be sure be people who would argue for the whales.
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:52 PM
Jul 2016

"If we just stopped the war there wouldn't be nuclear subs off the coast of California and ships wouldn't be sinking. So it's not our fault, we have a solution, just do it."

Of course, what's more likely is that if there is a war with somebody with (a) a coastline and (b) submarines that they'd be very close to the US borders and do a lot of serious damage before somebody authorized the rule changes and ordered the use of sonar.

But that's okay. It's not the fault of the regulations but the failure to develop a high-tech way of detecting subs without sonar. You can always blame somebody else if you're creative enough.

PersonNumber503602

(1,134 posts)
11. Why would you assume I meant it like that?
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 11:11 PM
Jul 2016

At first I was wondering how long these rules would last during a war with a sea power. Which then got me thinking about the scale of WW2 and how so many warships were sailing around on-edge pinging away.

I hope you didn't ignore me over this, but whatever if you did. I was like sooooooo going to post some really awesome cool stuff someday, and now you won't be able to see it. Now that was "snark"... I think. Maybe?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
13. I have been saying this for YEARS. It's not frigging rocket science.
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 11:24 PM
Jul 2016

There's an exercise that involves robust use of sonar and next thing ya know, there's dead whales and dolphins about.

You'd think they'd take a little time to figure out how the damn WHALES do it--they manage to navigate the seas and know what's in their path and proximity without killing one another.

I don't argue that we need "the technology" that sonar provides, but maybe we can figure out a better way to make it happen. Man on the moon, and all that....

Judi Lynn

(160,211 posts)
14. They should continue to work on it until the problem is eliminated.
Fri Jul 15, 2016, 11:24 PM
Jul 2016

These precious animals have no place to go to hide from this form of murderous torture. I hope someday they will be able to live in a better world. They are innocent. Those who would hurt them are not, and they shouldn't be allowed to terrorize them endlessly.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
18. At last!
Sat Jul 16, 2016, 05:50 AM
Jul 2016

I've been distressed about this since I first heard about this about 25 years ago.
Now to make it stick.
. . and apply to businesses, too. (I read something this past year about oil companies wanting to use sonar to explore for oil along the southeastern coast of the U.S.. . the answer to that is also NO.)

lark

(23,000 posts)
19. Thank you, thank you!!!!!!!!!
Sat Jul 16, 2016, 10:49 AM
Jul 2016

Hope this goes to the SCOTUS, a divided court means the whales win. AWESOME! After all the horrific things that are happening, including terrorism, drumpf, unprovoked killings, coup attempts, its really good to see a piece of sanity. Great and brave and unexpected news,

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