Here We Go Again: Language In Trump Jr.'s RNC Speech Lifted From Article

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

Source: Talking Points memo

Donald Trump Jr. appears to have followed in his stepmother Melania Trump's footsteps and gave a prime-time Republican National Convention speech that lifted some language from a magazine article.

The Daily Show pointed out that a few lines from Trump Jr.'s speech on night two of the convention closely matched a passage from a piece written by F. H. Buckley and published in The American Conservative in May.

Our schools used to be an elevator to the middle class. Now they're stalled on the ground floor. They're like Soviet-era department stores that are run for the benefit of the clerks and not the customers, for the teachers and administrators and not the students.

And here is the paragraph from the original American Conservative piece:

What should be an elevator to the upper class is stalled on the ground floor. Part of the fault for this may be laid at the feet of the system’s entrenched interests: the teachers’ unions and the higher-education professoriate. Our schools and universities are like the old Soviet department stores whose mission was to serve the interests of the sales clerks and not the customers.

Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/donald-trump-jr-rnc-speech-lifted-language-too

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I'm shocked, shocked that this sociopathic nepotism halfwit would be as intellectually lazy as his mail-order bride step-mom

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. They are entitled to lift shit at will.

They are a horseshit no good lousy family

[mercuryblues]

2. fuck them

I can't wait for their TrumpuPence.

[Stonepounder]

3. According to the original author, F. H. Buckley,

he was a principal writer for Trump Jr's speech, so it isn't really plagiarism, it is merely a reworking of something that he (Buckley) originally wrote.

[teach1st]

4. "Except that it wasn't stealing," Tweets Buckley

At the link:

"I was a principal speechwriter for the speech. So it's not an issue," Buckley said in an email to TPM.

https://twitter.com/fbuckley/status/755604499977363456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[yardwork]

19. Except that it means that the concept of intellectual property and responsibility means nothing.

They don't even have a concept that the person reading the speech might be considered responsible for what they're saying.

[uawchild]

30. What?

The same writer, apparently, wrote BOTH speeches.

Speech writers are the norm, so I miss the point you are trying to make.

[yardwork]

39. I've explained it over and over in this thread, as have others.

I'll summarize like this - if the speechwriter's ideas are all that is important, why didn't they send the speechwriter out to give the speech? Clearly, Trump Jr's ideas had no bearing on what he said.

They might as well have had an empty chair read the speech.

[uawchild]

40. You are taking issue with what is the norm

This also has been pointed out repeatedly. the norm is politicians use speech writers, they claim to give input to these speech writers and claim they make final edits.

It seems like a tempest in a teapot, honestly.

But we can agree to disagree. Thank you for your replies.

[BlueStreak]

5. Trump = Fraud. And where is his tax return?

The guy is probably in hock up to his eyeballs.

[SheriffBob]

6. Why give the punk credit then?

Ghost writers in the sky.

[bjobotts]

7. Definitely lifted this as mention of soviet union and deprt stores is just not a coincidence

[oberliner]

9. The author of the article was also the author of the speech

FH Buckley is a speech writer for Team Trump.

[yardwork]

20. That makes it worse.

[oberliner]

22. No it doesn't

It means that there was no plagiarism.

He just repeated some of the same themes from his article in the speech.

The same writer.

[yardwork]

27. The writer didn't give the speech! It's admitting that Trump Jr. simply read a script!

Did Trump Jr. stand up and say, "In the words of my father's speechwriter, Joe Blow, who wrote these words I'm about to read...." No he did not. Trump Jr. stood up and gave a speech that purported to reflect his own thoughts and beliefs.

[oberliner]

29. They all have speechwriters

And they coordinate with those speechwriters to make sure the words being written match up with the perspective of the speech giver - just more artfully written.

This is standard practice in politics.

[yardwork]

38. And they failed big time here, because it's now obvious that this speech is all about the writer.

The writer's ideas, not Trump Jr's ideas, so what role did Trump Jr have - a robot reading somebody else's script?

Might as well have been an empty chair.

[uawchild]

31. How?

Please explain yourself. Speech writers are the norm in politics.

[yardwork]

37. If the speechwriter is calling attention to their own ideas and words, they've failed.

The job of a speechwriter is to take the speaker's own ideas, thoughts, and beliefs and create a seamless presentation. The speaker is not supposed to be a robot simply reading somebody's else's ideas.

This episode makes it clear that Trump Jr. didn't have any part in the content of the speech. Rather, the speech represents the ideas and beliefs of the speechwriter - who is not the one at the podium.

See post #33 in this thread, which explains it well.

[Hugin]

8. Oh, the irony of a plagiarised article about education.

I'm sure they will use the affluenza excuse to wave it off. The same as "mommy".

[oberliner]

10. Not plagiarized

Same writer of both.

[Hugin]

12. Was that fact widely and openly acknowledged in advance?

The irony deepens.

[jayfish]

13. The American Conservative Might Have Something to Say About That

I'm sure Mr. Buckley didn't give the piece to them for free.

ON EDIT: I'm sure they will provide cover for him though.

[citizen blues]

14. In academia, you can plagerize your own earlier work...

If you re quoting something you wrote earlier, you still need to reference it. This is especially true with research articles, so I'm not completely convinced that it was not plagerism.

A) He clearly should have referenced the earlier work. It was very sloppy of him not to.

B) After the fiasco the night before, it would have been wise to be extra careful unless he was actually trying to divert attention away from Melania.

C) it still looks bad that he put prior work in this speech. It makes him look too lazy or otherwise lacking to be original or take a new approach.

[yardwork]

21. The speechwriter didn't give the speech!

[citizen blues]

33. Which makes it even worse!

By putting the words in someone else's mouth, he's making it appear that they are someone else's words. His job was to make it look like those are the speaker's own words. He was trusted to deliver a decent speech. Instead he created an unnecessary controversy and made the speaker look like an ass! (Which, admittedly, was not hard to do.)

If it has to be explained how this is NOT plagiarism, he fucked up! Simple as that!

[yardwork]

35. This is exactly what I'm saying. I don't understand why some don't get this.

[Wellstone ruled]

11. This whole darn RNC thing is

just another Trump Reality TV show. And the Family Actors are just reading their scripts. Noticed the use of special lighting and certain Actors the camera angles are predetermined . So friggin phony.

[BumRushDaShow]

15. ^^^ THIS ^^^

Add to this that he even appointed one of his former reality show contestants (Omarosa Manigault) as his "African American Outreach' director.

It's like Occam's razor or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes utterance - "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

The sad thing is that the media allowed this to happen and in fact, enabled it. This campaign has made a mockery out of the U.S. Presidential election process.

[Wellstone ruled]

41. And the so called Networks

eating this garbage up big time. The real glaring think is this all our name calling and race baiting. One has to realize these themes and talking points have been in every news broadcast and newspaper columns for the last two years. So much for the so called Independent Press.

[uawchild]

32. Welcome to the world of politics

What you describe is simply the norm.

[Wellstone ruled]

42. The Norm started with

the 2008 campaign season. Each camp used stealth phrases to attack their opponents and now we are seeing what can and will happen if no one is held accountable for their lies and false narratives.

[bucolic_frolic]

16. It's a Cut-and-Paste Campaign

Hopefully the American voters will recognize it as such

[jpak]

24. A Cut-andPaste Fact Free Campaign

yup

[surrealAmerican]

17. Has Trump Jr. ever been inside a public school?

It sounds to me like he's reading a speech about something he knows nothing about.

[deminks]

18. So, drumpfenspawn could not have plagerized his speech

'cause he didn't write it? So all those accolades for being heartfelt and authentic are misled? Seems he is between a rock and a hard place here.


And the speechifier had to use his own quotes about schools 'cause the spawn had none?

[yardwork]

28. Exactly. This point seems to be missed.

[uawchild]

34. Speech writers are the norm

Do you really think everyone doesn't use speech writers?

Politicians claim to give input and final editing of speeches, but by and large the speeches are written by speech writers.

[yardwork]

36. See post #33 above. The poster says it well.

The speechwriter's job is to write a speech that represents the speaker, plausibly represents the speaker's own beliefs, feelings, and thoughts.

This speechwriter fucked up. Big time.

[jpak]

23. IOKIYAAR

yup

[cstanleytech]

25. Makes sense, after all if you cannot come up with an original thought

you probably cannot come up with an original speech either.

[tonyt53]

26. The GOP afraid of education and free thinking - hmmm sounds like Turkey right now.

Let's round 'em up!

[Thinkingabout]

43. The RNC and the Trump campaign will never admit wrongs, just tell more lies to cover up.

It is stand up comedy from the Trump reality show. Still have not heard about any policies, but the Lyin' RNC speakers claiming Hillary lies.