Two shot dead, including doctor, at Berlin hospital

[mahatmakanejeeves]

Source: Fox News, Associated Press

Two shot dead, including doctor, at Berlin hospital

Published July 26, 2016 · FoxNews.com

A man opened fire Tuesday at a hospital in Berlin, killing a doctor and turning the gun on himself in the latest deadly shooting to rock Germany, investigators said.

Berlin police initially said the doctor had suffered life-threatening injuries, but later said he had died. Police said they were still investigating but there was no indication of a "terrorist background" to the attack.

The shooting unfolded at the mouth, jaw and face surgery unit of the Benjamin-Franklin Hospital in the southwestern district of Steglitz. The gunman was a patient, police told AFP.

Investigators did not name the doctor or the shooter.
....

The Associated Press contributed to this report

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/26/shots-reportedly-fired-at-berlins-university-hospital.html

[giftedgirl77]

1. Fox news isn't a reliable site & shouldn't be sourced as such.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

3. Then don't read the post. NT

[giftedgirl77]

9. Lol, aren't you cute.

[MariaThinks]

13. People don't want posts revealing radicalized islamic murders so the first step is to discredit

the news source, then it's to argue that it was a lone wolf thing, then to move on when the organized nature and supporters of the attacker are identified.

meantime, the body count is now too high.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

16. Reading the story, this sounds like none of that

I would guess this is, in fact, a disgruntled patient murder/suicide.

[rockfordfile]

23. Faux News isn't news

Trying to give credit to Faux News a right wing propaganda network is telling.

[MariaThinks]

38. the opinion at faux is disgusting - but a factual news story of murder is not being perverted

by opinion.

[JonathanRackham]

27. Maybe they'd be less dead if it was CNN or BBC?

[melman]

8. Well I guess this didn't happen then

Even though it's all over the news on every site you could think to look at.

[giftedgirl77]

10. If so than why not use a reputable site?

[mahatmakanejeeves]

11. I had thought your question was an example of the fallacy known as "begging the question,"

Last edited Tue Jul 26, 2016, 12:09 PM - Edit history (1)

but I see instead that it is an example of the fallacy known as a loaded question.

A loaded question or complex question fallacy is a question that contains a controversial or unjustified assumption (e.g., a presumption of guilt)

Aside from being an informal fallacy depending on usage, such questions may be used as a rhetorical tool: the question attempts to limit direct replies to be those that serve the questioner's agenda. The traditional example is the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Whether the respondent answers yes or no, they will admit to having a wife and having beaten her at some time in the past. Thus, these facts are presupposed by the question, and in this case an entrapment, because it narrows the respondent to a single answer, and the fallacy of many questions has been committed. The fallacy relies upon context for its effect: the fact that a question presupposes something does not in itself make the question fallacious. Only when some of these presuppositions are not necessarily agreed to by the person who is asked the question does the argument containing them become fallacious. Hence the same question may be loaded in one context, but not in the other. For example, the previous question would not be loaded if it was asked during a trial in which the defendant has already admitted to beating his wife.

This fallacy should be distinguished from that of begging the question (not to be confused with raising the question), which offers a premise whose plausibility depends on the truth of the proposition asked about, and which is often an implicit restatement of the proposition.

You are evidently of the opinion that, because the story appeared on Fox News (with an assist from the AP), it must automatically not be believable. As another poster has pointed out, your opinion is not supported by the facts.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes.

[giftedgirl77]

17. Lol, ok

[christx30]

12. Here it is at CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/26/europe/berlin-hospital-shooting/

[uppityperson]

6. Sorry, multiple tabs open. No, the Normandy church

[ck4829]

5. More not-terror

Club Blu, now this.

These not-terrorists need to be stopped, is Obama going to stand up and call them what they are? These are clearly radical not-Islamic not-terrorists, Scott Baio, where are you?

[PersonNumber503602]

7. Germany has been having it pretty rough this month

[Scorpionflyx]

20. You have to wonder..

what Angela is thinking.

[JackRiddler]

34. Do you care to correct the implication...

given that this unfortunate horror is actually a routine murder completely unrelated to anything political.

Every murder in Germany - which suffers its share - for the next few weeks is going to be played as though it's part of an ISIS spree.

[PersonNumber503602]

35. What implication? I never thought this was related to any sort of terrorism

My first guess was that maybe it had something to do with someone blaming a doctor for a death or something. I haven't looked up any updated information yet though, so I don't know if my thoughts were right.

My comment was more of a general one about what seems to be an upswing in violence in Germany. Someone I was talking to who is from Germany was saying they are not used to it like we are here in the US.

[JackRiddler]

37. There is no "upswing" of violence in Germany, it's coverage only...

based on the current framing wherein a case of anyone committing any act of violence in Germany is going to be played in the media as potentially part of an "ISIS" terror spree = All Muslims (Arabs, German-born youth with an Iranian father and no religious background, French Algerians, whatever) are terror-programmed = Syrian refugees = that fucking Merkel let them in, serves her right!

See this thread! Some old demented man in Berlin shoots his doctor in one of X hundred murders that happened today, it's global news, and as the upshot you will find posts here attacking Merkel for taking in war refugees!

[xocet]

14. Why not use a reputable source? Why support the Murdoch empire? Fox News is not a reputable source.

Berlin-Steglitz Patient erschießt im Benjamin-Franklin-Klinikum Arzt und sich selbst
Von Lutz Schnedelbach | Andreas Kopietz

Im Benjamin-Franklin-Klinikum Steglitz ist am Dienstag ein Arzt erschossen worden. Der 72-jährige Rentner Rainer B. aus Spandau gab gegen 13 Uhr in einem Behandlungszimmer zwei Schüsse auf einen Oberarzt ab. Danach lief er von der vierten Etage des Gebäudekomplexes in den zweiten Stock und erschoss sich dort.

Das Opfer Thomas P., ein 55 Jahre alter Oberarzt in der Klinik für Mund-, Kiefer- und Gesichtschirurgie, erlag am Nachmittag trotz einer Notoperation seinen Verletzungen. Der Mediziner hinterlässt eine Frau und zwei minderjährige Kinder.

...

http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/panorama/berlin-steglitz-patient-erschiesst-im-benjamin-franklin-klinikum-arzt-und-sich-selbst--24457042

One thus sees:

Berlin-Steglitz
Patient in the Benjamin Franklin Clinic Fatally Shoots Doctor and Then Himself
By Lutz Schnedelbach | Andreas Kopietz


A doctor from the Steglitz Benjamin Franklin Clinic was shot to death on Tuesday. The 72-year-old pensioner Rainer B. from Spandau fired two shots at an attending physician in a treatment room at around 1:00 PM. Subsequently, he ran from the 5th floor of the building complex to the 3rd floor and fatally shot himself there.

The victim, Thomas P., a 55-year-old physician in the Clinic for Mouth, Jaw and Facial Surgery, died from his injuries in the afternoon despite an emergency operation. The doctor leaves behind a wife and two minor children.

...

http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/panorama/berlin-steglitz-patient-erschiesst-im-benjamin-franklin-klinikum-arzt-und-sich-selbst--24457042

[mahatmakanejeeves]

15. Siehe meine früheren Antworten, bitte. KT (kein Text, for "no text")

Last edited Tue Jul 26, 2016, 09:13 PM - Edit history (1)

[xocet]

18. Fox News is most definitely a right-wing source, and there are many other sources that carried the

Last edited Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:16 AM - Edit history (1)

The New York Times is not a right-wing source and had the story before Fox News:

Gunman Kills Doctor, Then Himself at Berlin Hospital

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
JULY 26, 2016, 8:15 A.M. E.D.T.


BERLIN — Officials say a man has shot dead a doctor before killing himself at a Berlin hospital.

The shooting occurred around 1 p.m. Tuesday at the mouth, jaw and face surgery unit of the Benjamin-Franklin Hospital in the southwestern district of Steglitz.

Berlin police initially said the doctor had suffered life-threatening injuries, but later said he had died. The circumstances of the shooting are still being investigated.

...

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/07/26/world/europe/ap-eu-germany-shooting.html?_r=0

Thus, there is no reason to post from a right-wing source as you have.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

22. One should have kept reading:

Content

Don't interfere with forum moderation

Don't post messages about site rules, enforcement, juries, hosts, administration, alerts, alerters, removed posts, appeals, locked threads, or anything else related to how this website is moderated (except in the Ask the Administrators forum).

And now, if you don't mind, I'm going to go home and have ein Bier.

I have a hankering (translation impossible) for something cheap and lousy - something domestic, in other words. Genesee Cream Ale - yeah, that's the ticket.

Several probably.

die besten Wünsche

[xocet]

24. Or perhaps one should not support right-wing websites by linking to them.... n/t

[FrodosPet]

30. Genny Cream!

OK, I cannot say "Good Stuff!", but I can say "Two days before payday, it's the best bad beer to be had".

[mahatmakanejeeves]

32. I am quaffing said ale as I write.

I am mixing things up tonight. I started with a Miller Genuine Draft. MGD is well worht the money. Yuengling is the same price, and I like it too. Bonus: like Genesee, it comes from an American-owned brewery. Yuengling comes from America's oldest brewery. Genesee comes from New York's oldest brewery.

It's like being a part of history.

In northern Virginia, we can get regular Yuengling , Yuengling light, and Yuengling Black and Tan. The Black and Tan is available in 12-packs. I suspect that other varieties are available the closer one gets to Pottsville.

Thanks for writing.

[reorg]

19. there seems to be a heightened interest in German news lately

What is the purpose? What is the reason? I don't remember everyone getting excited over every other murder committed in a nation of some 100 million people, give it a rest! Are there no other places where crimes are being committed?

[guillaumeb]

26. No. there is an interest in framing all violence as Muslim violence.

Or all of the violence that is mentioned in a post at DU.

[Shandris]

31. Just guessing, because the nation in question that you are facetiously pretending to have no...

...clue about is headed by a woman that our candidate claims to want to be just like, and is backed by a group that likewise backs that same leader. This group supports the complete and systematic dissolution of borders (except for theirs, natch) and 'free movement of people' (read: eternal economic slavery by means of permanent de-rooting).

The nation in question has recently allowed 'free movement of people' and is now seeming to experience extreme hardships that, amazingly, most 'respectable sites' (lol) show no mention of yet evidence keeps appearing of.

So, I'd WAGER that the answer to your 'question' is that they want to see what kind of effect this 'free movement of people' will actually have by observing it in action. Now, if you find that detestable, controversial, or somehow offensive, you're more than welcome to. Neither do any of us care, nor do we have any desire to support silly, facetious questions one dime at at time.

[reorg]

36. of course you are just guessing

because neither have I pretended to have no clue about Germany nor are these 'extreme hardships' related to what you label the 'free' movement of people.

As I mentioned in another post, these recent violent incidents have very little in common - especially the one mentioned in the OP which has nothing whatsoever to do with migrants, refugees, 'de-rooting' or whatever you are talking about.

So, go and project your disruptive 'guesses' on something else. If somebody is trying to stir up internal conflict in Germany we'll know it when we see it. But I'm guessing they won't succeed.

[question everything]

21. While we have been busy with our internal news, Germany really has been under attack

[romanic]

25. These attacks have been mostly in Southern Germany

Is that where most of the migrants have settled within the country?

[reorg]

28. "these attacks" were all different

(Train to) Würzburg: 17-year-old asylum seeker, identity and country of origin unclear, according to a letter to his father his motive was revenge for a friend who had been treated badly. He reportedly wanted to hurt "Kafrs", attacked a family of Chinese vacationers, none of the victims died.

Munich: German national, not a migrant, but right-wing extremist Breivik copycat carried out the attack on the 5th anniversary of the mass murder in Norway. It is assumed that he had personal motives and targeted a specific group: all but one were young teenagers, three were from Kosovo.

Reutlingen: 21-year-old asylum seeker from Syria killed his girlfriend in the course of an argument that turned violent. Two bystanders trying to interfere were also hurt.

Ansbach: rejected asylum seeker who had not yet been forced to leave Germany tried to attack visitors of a music festival. The attack failed for the most part, only the 'attacker' died, but this person may in fact have been inspired by suicide attacks in the Middle East, for whatever reason. Desperation? Anger? It was reported that previously he had had some mental issues and had been under treatment. OTOH, a lot of money has been found in his pockets, a "roll" of fifty Euro bills, whatever that exactly means. Why would someone intent on committing suicide carry thousands of Euros on his body? Perhaps he wanted to bomb but not to commit suicide?

(If so, it would be reminiscent of the "Oktoberfest Attentat" in Munich which happened in the early eighties and is attributed by some knowledgable people to Gladio, the secret "stay-behind" groups of NATO who also carried out bomb attacks in Italy in the seventies in order to blame them on the commies and sow distrust and conflict among the general population.)


So, none of "these attacks" was actually commited by an "Islamist" suicide attacker except maybe the one mentioned last, but this one apparently failed completely.

Oops, I forgot the murder mentioned in the OP: Berlin is not in Southern Germany, the killer was not a migrant, the OP has no relation whatsoever with the other violent acts. A 72-year-old German was angry at his doctor and shot him, period.

[crim son]

29. When my father was an intern about fifty years ago

a man pulled a gun on a patient he was treating and told her that he was going to kill her and everybody in the room. Somehow my father jumped on the guy and got the gun away from him. Yes, just like a movie! But my point is, these things can and do happen and don't have to be related to radicalized anything.

[Skittles]

33. fuck Fox News

please use only credible sources