Jane Sanders: We're Going To Hold Clinton Accountable After Endorsing Her

[DonViejo]

Source: Talking Points Memo

Jane Sanders told Rolling Stone on Wednesday that she and her husband, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), were going to hold Hillary Clinton accountable on promises she's made after endorsing her at the Democratic National Convention.

Sanders said that her husband's supporters shouldn't get over his campaign, rather that Clinton should work to gain their trust.

"We understand that we earned their support and their trust. Now Hillary Clinton has to earn their support and their trust," Sanders told Rolling Stone. "And we will hold (the Clinton campaign) accountable because we are endorsing her. We are that much more committed to making sure (she follows through on her promises), instead of saying, 'Oh, it's politics as usual, people change.'"

Sanders said that they knew her husband wasn't going to win the presidency after the on June 7 primaries in California, New Jersey and a number of other states. "But we had to do as much as we possibly could on the issues to honor all of the work that so many people have done, and that we did," she told the magazine.

-snip-

Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jane-sanders-clinton-endorsement-holding-her-accountable

[leftofcool]

1. Okie dokie, Jane

[tecelote]

90. Yeah. You're right. Bad idea.

Let's not hold Hillary accountable. She can do no wrong. So, what's the point?

[merrily]

177. .

[leftofcool]

227. I don't think I said that at all. Please don't think for me. I like to do that for myself.

[sunnystarr]

263. The point is that she's not being supportive

You don't endorse someone as part of a deal to get them to sign on to your agenda and then PUBLICLY state you don't trust her to support the agenda. Which of course gets picked up by the Trumpers to attack Hillary by stating that even those who endorse her know she's crooked and can't be trusted. I was livid when I read it! Jane violated their agreement.

[yurbud]

294. Did Jane say Hillary was a crook?

[Brickbat]

2. That's nice.

[George II]

3. She just won't fucking give up, will she? Hey Janie, speaking of accountability, where....

....are those tax returns you PROMISED more than once to release on April 29? HMMMMMM????

[Red Knight]

72. When Hillary releases her speeches.

Talk about overreacting! What is she supposed to say? Hillary won but we don't care if the TPP passes? Now go out and cheer her. You can't see it but she's trying to HELP her by saying that! It's another way to coax Bernie supporters on board.

Vote for her. It's okay. We will hold her to her promises.

You guys are NOT helping.

Remember, the primary is over. You need them. They don't need you.

[LiberalLovinLug]

85. +1000

[pkdu]

112. Hey - they dont need "us"..who the fuck do they think needs to join the "revolution" next to keep it

growing and expanding?

Think on laddie.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

116. Hillary promised to release her speeches when Trump released his taxes

I still think that's fair, given that she's released her taxes.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[merrily]

183. She also promised to release them when Sanders and all occupants of the clown car released theirs.

IOW, she has no intention of ever releasing them.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

235. Sanders never released his taxes either

Just the summary. It's not the same thing.

I'm not bashing Sanders over this, but attacks on Clinton for lack of transparency are absolutely absurd given that she's been the most transparent candidate in the race.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[merrily]

240. He's not a nominee.

Transparency on tax returns does not = transparency on all relevant matters.

Personally, I don't want her to release the transcripts at this point.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

242. I think she should press the point about Trump's tax returns..

...and absolutely, if Trump does, she should gather the transcripts at release them.

There's nothing in them, by the way. There's a video of her making a presentation with Goldman Sachs at a Clinton Foundation dinner, celebrating how they arranged microlending services to help lift tens of thousands of women out of poverty.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[merrily]

244. IMO, Trump will have to produce his tax returns anyway.

If they press her and it's a matter of looking untrustworthy or producing them, then she should produce them. If she has them.

There's nothing in them, by the way.

You have absolutely no way of knowing that.

There's a video of her making a presentation with Goldman Sachs at a Clinton Foundation dinner, celebrating how they arranged microlending services to help lift tens of thousands of women out of poverty.

Making a speech with the head of Goldman Sachs at a charitable organization's dinner has nothing to do with the speeches she made at Goldman Sachs for Goldman Sachs.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

247. I doubt Trump will *ever* release his taxes

...among other things, it will show that he's barely a millionaire. The man operates on pure bluster and has gone bankrupt multiple times. It would also show Russian connections as well, almost certainly.

Insofar as Hillary's speeches are concerned, like all lecture circuit speeches, these aren't made in some secret back room where she's cackling saying "How can we make poor people suffer more today, my flying monkeys?" They're essentially made in public, before hundreds, if not thousands, of mid level employees, many of whom are not right wing Republicans, and are almost certainly filled with pretty standard exhortations. If there were anything remotely untoward in them, we'd already know about it. There are these things called smart phones, and many of them can record (as Romney learned).

The point of bringing in a headlined event like this is that it's a benefit to the employees that makes them want to stay with the company. People with masters degrees in economics (at least) aren't a dime a dozen, which means that companies want to keep their employees happy.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[OwlinAZ]

216. plenty of wiggle room there.

What do Trumps taxed have to do with Clinton's talks with Goldman Sacs?

[ConservativeDemocrat]

236. No wiggle room at all

And the answer to your question is that it prevents the creation of a double standard - where one candidate is expected to be completely transparent, and the other one isn't, and this is just accepted by the media and the haters.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[JoFerret]

206. Time for the Sanders brownshirt wing to stop with the nonsense

The work ahead is clear. The infantile behavior we saw at the convention was sickening in its delusional narcissism. Booing John Lewis? Blocking subways so people had to walk blocks in the heat? Disrupting speakers with disrespect? Burning flags?

Looked like a bunch of spoiled brats who had their say but did not get their way. If at this point they are not on board to work to defeat Trump and not going to vote in November what is the point of them?

Bernie got his time in the sunshine and he and the crew got more than fulsome recognition.

Such a shame to see that the foul behavior of his supporters carried on well beyond the sell-by date. The primary is over. Sanders lost after a very good fight. The sick behavior of those "dudebros" was despicable. And anyone who was subject to it has tales to tell of their bullying and arrogance. It was often sexist, always ignorant and sometimes racist. Sanders failed to disavow them during the primary and his failure to lead was notable. Riding a wave of anarchist anger is one thing. Taking no responsibility is another.

The issues matter and can continue to be debated and argued for. But the acting-out behavior needs to stop

Bernie unleashed some pretty foul brownshirt types in the course of this election. And then he lost them. They are are not Democrats and should stop pretending they are.

So - we don't need them. Because they have already made up their alleged minds. And if some of them actively support and vote for Trump - I would not be surprised.

[demosincebirth]

264. I think the rest of the country holds every President responsible not a group with

their own ingrained hatred of HRC. who masquerade as Democrats.

[thesquanderer]

91. The best way to keep BS supporters in the fold is to assure them that their concerns...

...will not be ignored, and will be addressed by more than just a few conciliatory words that will be ignored after November. What's wrong with that? "She just won't fucking give up" is uncalled for. Isn't there some DU rule about not continuing to fight the primary? You could at least be civil about your disagreements.

[JNelson6563]

278. Some good points but

this whole thread is re-fighting the primary.

Pathetic really.

[thesquanderer]

281. Democrats should be able to discuss the pros and cons of her strategy...

...without refighting the primary and without foul mouthed insults.

[JNelson6563]

282. Yes, yes, I know.

The Sanders people should be able to say anything they want and the Hillary people better shut up and take or by gawd there will be tears.

Sorry but even though I stayed neutral in the primary I became gradually disgusted by the bullying and vicious tactics od the Bernie supporters. It still goes on and it is tiresome and tedious.

[thesquanderer]

284. Of course you can feel however you want about the situation in general, but we are talking about...

a specific post and response (the OP, and the response that prompted my comment). Even feeling the way you do, do you really think the OP was truly a provoking "Sanders people should be able to say anything they want" comment and that it would justify that kind of vulgar response? I would say not (even if we were not in an environment where we're trying to heal and not keep fighting the primary, which we are, which makes it that much more inappropriate). There was no Hillary hate or even disrespect in the OP. There was plenty of disrespect and hate in the reply.

[merrily]

184. Riiight. Because Bernie is the unfaithful type. Give me a break.

[grahamhgreen]

178. We will never give up. Thank you :)

[merrily]

181. Why should he release his tax returns now? He didn't get the nom.

[adigal]

198. As someone who,supported Bernie and his progressive ideas

I certainly will be paying attention if Hillary wins, and making my voice heard if she backtracks on her promises. I think we didn't hold Obama to his promises enough so we still have many of the major problems we had 8 years ago: poverty, shrinking middle class, crappy environmental protections, guns.

Are you content with the state of our country? I'm not.

[George II]

223. Just like people did with Obama in 2009? Within two weeks (a few days for some) he was being...

....bashed for not doing what he promised. People were relentless, and totally unaware of how things work - a President doesn't do everything right away.

It got so bad that I had to leave this place for more than a year.

[LeFleur1]

241. See,

This is the kind of post that makes me wonder if we need a LAW that civics/government courses will be required in our schools. Nothing at all would ever have been done if no one negotiated and no one gave a little. We would have had no civil rights bills, no forward movement at all if the elected one refused to do anything at all except what HE thought needed to happen. This is the very reason Bernie didn't win, in spite of caucuses instead of real voting. He appeared to be the kind of person who would rather sit in one place than move just a little bit. And moving just a little bit toward the goal has often been what we have to do to move at all. As we have seen with those elected to the House and Senate recently (because some deemed the election not important enough to bother) , moving not at all means we make NO progress. Our country's government only works if people are able to negotiate toward progress. Hillary can do that. Bernie is not interested.

Join the supporters of Progress. Be With Her.

[DemonGoddess]

253. The fact that civics is no

longer required as a high school graduation requirement floors me. When I was a kid, we had to pass both Civics and US Government in order to be eligible to graduate.

[Sand Rat Expat]

266. Some high schools offer it as an elective. Mine did.

But yeah, it wasn't a required course in order to get the diploma. I always thought that was just absurd. Then again, high schools are churning out graduates who have no idea how government works, have no idea how to balance a checkbook, have no idea how to get a loan or buy a car, have no clue how to behave at a job interview...

We teach them stuff that 90% of them won't use, while completely ignoring vital skills necessary to survive as an adult. And then we wonder why our fellow citizens have no clue what's going on or what to do about it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

276. What's wrong with holding ALL our candidates accountable for promises they make? It only makes sense or else our votes are worthless.

[George II]

279. Nothing, but holding them accountable with a chip on one's shoulder, as Jane is doing....

....is not right.

My advance guess is that nothing Clinton does will be good enough for her.

[pnwmom]

4. Well, I'm going to hold Jane and Bernie accountable for getting us majorities in Congress. n/t

[AllyCat]

95. Oh, I get it. Because Jane and Bernie are the nominees

For King and Queen of the senate. So they should be accountable. Right on it.

[pnwmom]

96. It's as logical as Jane pretending that Hillary can force Congress to do her bidding. n/t

[highprincipleswork]

101. It's not forcing Congress to do your bidding. It's staying true to policy promises that have been

made. That's simple enough, for those who keep their promises.

[pnwmom]

110. No President can keep policy promises without a cooperative Congress. n/t

[lapfog_1]

115. Ummm sorry, that's wrong.

As President Hillary could veto any legislation, like the TPP, with the stroke of a pen and use of a stamp.

To override the veto, they would have to get 66 Senators to vote in favor of passage. If Hillary can't keep 34 Dem senators in line, then she doesn't really deserve to the the leader of the Democratic party.

[pnwmom]

117. You are right. A President can veto legislation. But a President cannot legislate. n/t

[merrily]

179. Not literally. But New Deal and Great Society legislation, the Civil Rights Act, ACA and others

all originated in, and were pushed through by the Executive Branch. And some Executive Orders arguably should have been legislation, such as the Emancipation Proclamation.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

214. Both President Roosevelt and Johnson had huuuuge Democratic majorities in both Houses of Congress to

pass into law their proposals. You didn't need a super majority then either and that is the reality that President Clinton will have to deal with. To get anything done calls for electing Democratic majorities because the pukes will do everything possible to cripple her administration. That's the facts!

[merrily]

224. While *almost* technically true, your post is deceptively overly simplified.

First, my post was replying to posts implying all a President can do is bully and veto or not veto, as if they cannot have anything else to do with a bill. So, my post pointed out a number of profound bills that started in the White House. That is a separate issue from why and how FDR and LBJ got legislation thru. But, since you went there...


I know fans of New Democrats on DU love to make it like all FDR and LBJ had to do was snap their fingers, because that makes them seem no better than other Presidents at getting legislation passed. However, they often had enormous problems within their own party. The majority in Congress with a (D) after its name did not automatically translate to getting a majority of votes easily. While the party had a majority, the bills did not necessarily have one initially. The majority was the result of the South being included and the northern Democrats and Southern Democrats often clashed, with the South digging in on race and others digging in on $$.

Also, Roosevelt was not merely passing legislation, he was changing the interpretation of the Constitution that had stood since 1789, when it was first ratified. He was passing legislation that many, including within his own party, considered seriously unconstitutional--wholly outside the power of the federal government. Before Roosevelt, the Commerce Clause had not been construed expansively, which was the reason the SCOTUS kept striking down New Deal legislation. So, FDR was not only fighting Republicans and people within his own party on $$ and overreach; he was also fighting the Supreme Court. Meanwhile, his health sucked, the country was circling in the toilet and Hitler was running amok. Nonetheless, he got tons of unprecedented legislation written and passed very quickly and cowed the Court, two huge accomplishments. How fast and effectively he moved in the first 100 days of his administration is the reason every President since has been looked at after 100 days.

The huge majority Johnson had depended on the South, which was virulently opposed the Civil Rights Act, tag teaming a filibuster for days and days. Getting that bill passed took A LOT on Johnson's part--negotiating, arm twisting, flattering, invoking JFK while the nation was still in shock and grief, etc. If it was such a cake walk, he sure wasted a hell of a lot of time and energy--and so had JFK before him, who had started negotiation the bill before he was shot. That took a coalition, too, of Republicans and Northern Democrats and, IIRC, Everett Dirksen, who Johnson promised would go down in history because of the Civil Rights bill (LOL!). See, among many other sources, http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/civil_rights/cloture_finalpassage.htm

FDR and LBJ were phenoms and, as stated above, that is not merely my opinion, but that of historians.

However, you are right that cloture was not 60 votes then. It usually took more votes than 60 then, especially on important legislation,when most Senators would be present unless on a death bed.

A similar procedure was adopted in 1917 by the Senate of the United States. This was invoked for the first time on November 15, 1919,[23] during the 66th Congress, to end filibuster on the Treaty of Versailles.[24]

The Senate's cloture rule originally[25] required a supermajority of two-thirds of all senators "present and voting" to be considered filibuster-proof.[26][27] For example, if all 100 Senators voted on a cloture motion, 67 of those votes would have to be for cloture for it to pass; however if some Senators were absent and only 80 Senators voted on a cloture motion, only 54 would have to vote in favor.[28] However, it proved very difficult to achieve this; the Senate tried eleven times between 1927 and 1962 to invoke cloture but failed each time. Filibuster was particularly heavily used by Democratic Senators from Southern states to block civil rights legislation.[29]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloture

Of course, Democrats had an opportunity to get rid of cloture, but they chose not to. Wonder why?

BTW, my post mentioned ACA as well, for modern legislation. That started in the White House, too, and I personally have been told at least 100 times on DU, and read it here many more times, that Obama did not have the votes he needed to do as he wished with that bill. But, it was historic legislation; it did start in the WH and he did get it passed.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

232. ACA was passed with Democratic majorities in both Houses of Congress. Certainly it starts with a

persuasive president but it still boils down to the fact that a republican Congress will do everything possible to destroy a Clinton administration. Roosevelt was a great President and Lyndon Johnson was a great congressional manipulator but both enjoyed the benefits of a large Democratic controlled Congresses to start with, as well as, something that does not exist anymore, moderate republicans. The reality of today's political landscape with the deep divisiveness between parties makes it insurmountable to pass progressive programs in a republican controlled Congress, period. She will try but the push-back from the pukes will require compromise and watering down to get anything done.

[merrily]

245. Not sure why you are repeating points from your Post 214. My Reply 224 addressed those points and

then some, except....

"Congressional manipulator" my ass. It's called being an effective President.

[merrily]

185. VERY wrong. Some of the most profound changes in the US originated with the Oval Office.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1535147

[highprincipleswork]

174. It's called "the bully pulpit" for a reason. I suppose LBJ had nothing to do with Civil Rights

legislation? FDR had nothing to do with The New Deal. C'mon, there are many other examples.

Any President worth their salt is responsible for getting stuff done, even though they aren't in the Senate or the House.

Quit making excuses for her already. She can stay true to her platform and her promises or not. It is clear as a bell. And I assure you there will be many here to remind her if she goes South on her commitments to what she says we mutually stand for.

In the meantime, I am enthused about the convention. I am enthused about where we are, who we are, and what we say we stand for, and what we stand for.

it's up to Hillary to keep that consistent enough to keep her base.

[pnwmom]

175. We didn't have the "Hastert rule" in those days. People routinely made deals across party lines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastert_Rule

The Hastert rule will make Hillary's job much harder if there is still a GOP majority in the House.

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/10/return-hastert-rule-and-what-it-means-rest

[highprincipleswork]

180. Excuses, excuses, excuses. She can live up to her word or not.

[pnwmom]

191. She, unlike Trump, isn't stupid enough to think "I alone can fix this." She needs us

to elect a Congress that she can work with. She can't wave a magic wand and force them to do her bidding. And she can't wish upon a star or cast a spell.

All she can do is the hard work of negotiating with legislators, which will involve compromise, at best, and failures, at worst.

[LanternWaste]

298. Many people pretend the practical realities of a bureaucracy and party opposition are "an excuse."

Many people pretend the practical realities of a bureaucracy and party opposition as merely "an excuse," regardless of how inaccurate such an unsupported premise may be. Bias tends to do work well with such a mechanism to enable it...

[merrily]

186. People still make deals across party lines, as did Sanders and McCain did with vets' legislation.

In fact, the Brookings Institute made that a case study in working across the aisle.

[LanternWaste]

299. Is doing so a statistical standard?

Is doing so a statistical standard or an simply aberration?

[sunnystarr]

257. It's why pork was so critical

Once we eliminated pork we made it close to impossible to strike a deal. With pork a congressman could tell his constituents that because he compromised he was able to bring projects to his state.

[pnwmom]

259. That's true. Pork did serve a purpose. n/t

[merrily]

188. JFK too. Contrary to some, he had started work and negotiation on the Civil Rights Act but got shot.

That's why "it took LBJ to get it done." However, LBJ did use the memory of JFK as part of his arm twisting. So, in a way, although dead, JFK was still working on getting that bill passed.

[merrily]

190. More than only bullying. Writing bills. Arm twisting one legislator at a time. Executive Orders.

Some other examples. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1535147

I always heard we had three co-equal branches with different functions, but according to DU, the President is too weak to be held accountable for anything but the Easter egg roll--maybe not even that. After all, that's what White House staff is for.. If the President is that weak,we should probably re-structure the entire government. And stop worrying who gets nominated or elected at the tune of a few billion bucks.

It's also kind of amusing: The Presidency is strong enough for a Republican President to kill America and every bit of decency in it, but not strong enough for a Democratic President to keep his or her campaign promises. Cool, then stop promising stuff for which you refuse to be accountable. You can't have it every which way.

[SirBrockington]

121. The new Dick Morris

[Beartracks]

187. So we CAN't count on Hillary's promises, because Congress?

That was an excuse people around here gave for claiming Bernie's goals were unrealistic and pie-in-the-sky.

==================

[pnwmom]

193. Hillary adopted much of Bernie's "pie-in-the-sky" agenda to unify the party.

And Bernie himself says she won't be able to get the proposals through Congress unless people vote for down ticket Democrats.

Only Congress can pass laws. Presidents can only propose legislation, and veto bills Congress puts on their desks. This is basic high school civics.

[highprincipleswork]

270. This is how Republicans like Ronald Reagan get insane shit thru and Democrats settle for leftovers.

[pnwmom]

271. The Democrats don't follow Hastert's rule -- Republicans do. Democrats, OTOH,

always try to get negotiate and compromise, as they always have.

[highprincipleswork]

272. Guess you don't like power much.

I'd say, if you have power - use it. If you don't have power - use that.

But if you don't know how or like to use power, please don't volunteer to be my President.

[pnwmom]

273. I don't like autocrats, no, I don't. n/t

[highprincipleswork]

274. Nobody's talking "autocrats". But I would say this ----

If you have power - use it. If you don't have power - use that.

But if you don't know how to use power or like to use it, please don't volunteer to be my President.

[pnwmom]

275. Any President who thinks he can do it all alone is an autocrat. Hillary can't do it

without a majority in at least one House. Otherwise, except for a limited set of executive actions, all she'll be able to do is veto bills they send to her.

[SirBrockington]

105. And if we get 4 years of Trump

Im going to hold them accountable for running up her negatives

[MelSC]

114. Same here

And the Bernie or Busters

[newthinking]

233. Well that's the strategy.Just get mad and blame them

where exactly does that get everyone? It is a losing tactic.

How about everyone work (if we survive) to forward a candidate with more broad support next cycle (If Clinton were not to win).

[MelSC]

269. I have a confession to make...

Sanders was way too left for me. Hillary is a perfect fit.

[FailureToCommunicate]

144. Holding our elected officials to their promises 'runs up their negatives'

how?

[merrily]

182. LOL! No, that would be Hillary's coat tails.

And hatred of Trump Pence coat tails.

[uponit7771]

194. +1

[zentrum]

5. Thank you Jane. Thank you Bernie.

Glad to hear this.

[bekkilyn]

8. +1

I love the current Democratic platform and I want to see it succeed. I am glad someone, at least, plans to do whatever is possible to make sure it happens.

[ClairDiamond]

9. +1

[LiberalLovinLug]

119. + 1

[BeyondGeography]

6. Oy

Go away.

[stopbush]

7. Please go away.

[procon]

10. He was booed repeatedly, how does than translate into 'support and trust'?

I hope never to hear from any of that lot ever again.

[WinkyDink]

289. Who was booed??! What convention were YOU watching?

[procon]

292. Please. Use the Google before asking any more uniformed questions. nt

[Maven]

11. Whatever. nt

[lapucelle]

12. Now Jane finally has time to find the tax returns.

[avaistheone1]

20. We're not supposed to keep fighting the primaries.

[lapucelle]

48. I'm not fighting the primaries.

What does this have to do with the primaries? The OP is about Jane Sanders, and so is my comment.

Like I said, you are not entitled to define me and what I doing.

[Skittles]

127. apparently the jury is though

[Adsos Letter]

165. !

[lapucelle]

225. I'm not following your point, but I'm glad that we agree

that the primaries are over and that it's time to move forward, work hard, and elect Hillary.

Bernie and Jane are to be commended for showing the party and the nominee such strong support at the convention, especially during Clinton's acceptance speech last night.

[lapucelle]

234. Sanders's unequivocal endorsement of Hillary signaled a true end to the primary fights.

It was great to see Bernie and Jane showing solid support for the nominee throughout the convention.

[LisaM]

13. I'm going to hold Jane Sanders accountable for the Burlington College students

who were left high and dry after their school folded. Oh, and for claiming she was going to give a video tour of their house, and the tour just consisted of looking at Sanders family pictures and photos.

[lunamagica]

53. This. People who live n glass houses and all...

[BlueMTexpat]

64. Absolutely the first!

Accountability works both ways, Jane.

[LongtimeAZDem]

74. ^^^^^ (nt)

[Stuckinthebush]

140. Ouch

Good point!

[madaboutharry]

14. People who worked with

her at Burlington College claim she was one of those micro-managing, authoritarian, my way or the highway supervisors who made people miserable. It is who she is.

[BuddhaGirl]

89. That's no surprise

She seems quite a control freak, IMO

[tavernier]

93. Don't know about that, but she does

like the limelight. Wherever, whatever he does, she seems to need to creep into the picture.

[OwlinAZ]

218. Sounds like Hill

[bucolic_frolic]

15. Put it to bed, give it up, Jane

You're an Independent and were late to the Democratic Party

And we're going to hold YOU responsible if your shenanigans result
in Donald J. Trump being elected.

[phylny]

71. This is a great point I've seen over the past few days, and I agree.

I was a big Bernie supporter - I've been listening to him for years on Thom Hartmann, I donated to his campaign, and voted for him in the primary. Now, I'm for Hillary. Bernie did us a great service as a party, but he was only a Democrat for a short period of time.

[That Guy 888]

195. Yeah it will be anyone's fault but clinton and the dnc

Last edited Fri Jul 29, 2016, 03:33 PM - Edit history (1)

If clinton can't retain(or gain) enough votes to beat donald trump then that's on her.

[bucolic_frolic]

201. The party would be in worse shape in the public's mind

with a socialist and a usurper at the helm who does not have control
and long term management experience with party infrastructure

It was always going to crash and burn with Bernie

Somewhere along the line the fine movement he began and built
became convinced it could attain power and win, and he bought
into that somewhat

[That Guy 888]

260. Usurper? Wait a minute I thought implying "Queen Hillary" was verbotten.

Last edited Fri Jul 29, 2016, 07:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Sorry I don't buy that. Even now you can find posts that demand that Sanders support and campaign with Clinton. I'm sure if Clinton had lost to Sanders she would have supported the Democratic nominee, right?

Somewhere along the line the fine movement he began and built
became convinced it could attain power and win, and he bought
into that somewhat

Perhaps it was the constant assurances from Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and the upper ranks of the DNC leadership that they were running a fair and clean election?

[OwlinAZ]

219. Yes it is

[misterhighwasted]

16. Ya Jane the defunct college thanks your accountability too.

What's up with the FEC..some accountability on that matter would be appreciated also.

That's an awful hard pat on the back she's giving herself.
Lack of ethics need to be accounted for too.

[WinkyDink]

17. You LOST, just as did Cruz, Bush, Rubio, Kasich, et al.. LOSERS DO NOT GET TO DICTATE.

[Scuba]

23. Yeah, how silly to try to hold a politician to her promises.

[PoutrageFatigue]

38. Completely outrageous!! Accountability? Next thing you'll be demanding transparency!!

[lunamagica]

57. Yeah, transparency! Like they releasing their tax returns...

[PoutrageFatigue]

83. Is that a requirement?

[lunamagica]

87. It's tradition, and every candidate who wants to be open, TRASPARENT and has nothing to hide

has show them since the Nixon days.

Come to think of it, only two candidates in recent times have refused to release them. Sanders and Trump

[truebluegreen]

167. Nope. It's traditional for the NOMINEEs, not the candidates.

[lunamagica]

169. Have you forgotten that he promised to release them in April?

[pangaia]

50. Blows my fucking mind.

Tuesday, when Bernie did what they wanted, OH BERNIE is the best YEA BERNIE! WE LOVE YA BERNIE.

Then today.. when the Sanders promise to do what is right and what EVERY politician and every voter should do...OH BERNIE and JANE suck..

I never for a moment trusted the praise Bernie was getting the other day. I almost had to laugh.. It was so transparent...

And now we see how obvious the hypocrisy was...

[misterhighwasted]

66. Its not Bernie. Its the hypocrisy of Jane Sanders.

She needs to account for her own business of driving Burlington College over the cliff while walking away with $200, 000 for herself.

Jane Sanders has zero influence on the decisions of the President of the USA.
She should speak to her own lack of accountability & leave Bernie to handle his Senate dealings.

Step back Jane. You are not a member of the Senate.
Get your own house in order. Burlington College closed its doors because of her influence.
Thanks

[Red Knight]

73. +1

Nm

[adigal]

202. Yes, holding hillary to her word is a horrible, terrible, no good, very bad thing

I see the excuses coming already. No wonder they take our votes for granted.

We need to hold EVERY politician accountable. Period.

[pangaia]

230. Absolutely.

I was not intending here to speak only of holding Hillary's 'feet to the fire,' by any means.

But the whole political system is such a joke that when someone comes along and actually is totally up front about what is going on, he/she is seen as - call it what you will...weird, the fringe, radical, ego-driven.

[bluestateguy]

18. I will hold her accountable too

And I have supported her for over a year.

And the Sanders's realize (as do most of their supporters) that they have more leverage to hold Hillary Clinton accountable, by being part of the coalition that elected her.

[avaistheone1]

19. Well said Jane.

[wysi]

21. Whatever you say

[geek tragedy]

22. I'm fine with that. See you in December, Jane. nt

[floriduck]

24. When shouldn't elected officials be accountable? It should be obvious.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

98. Pure bullshit!!

[greatauntoftriplets]

118. I can't believe I just read that.

President Obama was bashed here starting January 20, 2009. I know that you know this, but OMG.

[Koinos]

25. Jane isn't saying anything unusual, although she might think she is.

All endorsers and voters want their elected officials to be accountable. I certainly do.

Now let's see Jane and Bernie keep their side of the bargain and campaign actively for Hillary. I hope they do not intend to make this general election a "spectator sport."

Let's all talk about "accountability" (that includes you, Jane) after we do everything to defeat Trump and get Hillary elected.

IMHO, Hillary will surpass all pessimists' expectations and will turn out to be one of our great presidents, even better than Bill and Barack. And that is saying a lot.

[Eric J in MN]

277. How much Sanders campaigns for HRC is also her decision.

Does HRC want to do more joint-appearance with Sanders? If not, there won't be any.

Does HRC want her campaign to fund a Sanders speaking tour? If not, then he won't have the money to do a speaking tour for her.

[Still In Wisconsin]

26. I know I'll get smoked for saying this but I'll say it anyway...

Shouldn't we all hold her accountable after she wins? I mean, we should hold everyone we elect accountable. Obama, Bill Clinton, Gore had he won, certainly Bernie had he won- everyone. Vote Democratic and then yes, absolutely hold their feet to the fire.

I get why Jane's comments will piss people off, but I really don't think she's being petulant. This is not the same as the IDIOT protesters in the convention hall and outside. I was a proud supporter of Bernie, and now I'm a proud supporter of Hillary. I intend to contribute financially and through volunteering. So will my wife. I expect Hillary will win, and when she does I don't expect her to be perfect, nor will I expect her to give me "everything I want." BUT... I do expect her to remain true to her campaign pledges at least in spirit. I think we all should, yes?

[LisaM]

31. I don't think it's that....

Every politician should be held accountable for trying to achieve their campaign goals (I don't like the word "promise" - too easy to claim that someone has broken a promise, even if they've tried to keep it). It's the way Jane's implying that they control the narrative.

[Still In Wisconsin]

34. Yeah, I see that. Maybe overplaying her hand a bit. n/t

[wysi]

43. It seems as though her hand...

... consists of a two of clubs, a three of hearts, a five of spades, a joker, and the card with the instructions written on it.

[Still In Wisconsin]

69. Nah she's at least got a pair...

All of Bernie's support has to be worth at least, say, a pair of jacks.

[wysi]

124. If she was playing Euchre

... that would be great!

[Still In Wisconsin]

141. Ahh Euchre...

you from Wisconsin?

[stopbush]

131. Does it HAVE To be said?

Isn't it a rule of thumb that our politicians are held accountable through elections?

This is a time to unite behind our nominee, Hillary Clinton. Jane Sanders' comments do nothing to unite us, and she's not saying anything that we don't already know. She's being disunifying, implying that Hillary can't be trusted, and that she (Hillary) is now on notice that Jane and the scold squad will be watching her every move.

Bad timing and a useless message.

[That Guy 888]

197. A lot of posters here get really pissed off when activist try to hold Democrats accountable.

Not just the convention either. Personally given the prominent speaking slots given to some of what I consider the worst Democrats I have little hope of Clinton keeping faith with the left or Sanders or any Democrat that isn't a "socially liberal but fiscally conservative" neocon.

[GreenPartyVoter]

215. Agreed.

[Blanks]

27. I'm sure her heart is in the right place...

...but, it'd be nice if they'd wake up and realize that a percentage of their supporters are dyed in the wool republicans trying to make the democratic candidate look bad.

Who knows what that percentage is, but those people could care less what the Sanders or Clintons do, as long as it disrupts the democratic party's message.

[Still In Wisconsin]

36. I may be totally naive but...

I believe that percentage to be very low and, unfortunately, very vocal.

[Blanks]

42. You could be right...

I don't know, but it seems like the kind of thing that would normally help the republicans so from a strategic standpoint it makes sense.

I wish someone would look into it.

[That Guy 888]

200. Sorry but no.

Just because someone disagrees that Clinton is the bestest candidate evah!!! doesn't mean that they're republicans.

Who knows what that percentage is, but those people could care less what the Sanders or Clintons do, as long as it disrupts the democratic party's message.

Who knows what the percentage of voters are that will feel like clamping a clothespin on their nose to vote for our latest neocon. I'm sure most of Sanders supporters in swing states will end up voting for Clinton despite the DNC doing their best to disenfranchise them.

[adigal]

203. I'm a clothespin Hillary voter, Kaine almost ended that for me

I need to stay away from here until November. I'm getting angrier and angrier. That a suggestion to hold the nominee accountable is being ripped to shreds is stunning. Where has our critical thinking gone? Our sense of being for country above party? Every candidate should be held accountable, otherwise we are no more than a bunch of cheerleaders. How is that even controversial here????????

[Lobo27]

28. Lol, and we rip the GOP for being judgemental.

[Gore1FL]

29. Great! We should all hold our elected officials accountable.

I'm not sure why people on this thread feel differently.

[jmowreader]

30. Who's going to hold Jane accountable for running Burlington College into the ground?

[Raster]

46. Perhaps the citizens of Vermont, or the members of that college district?

Jane's comment is about this election. Burlington College has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton or this election. Nothing. And this line of hand-on-the-hip bullshit does nothing positive for the Clinton campaign. It only makes the Hillary supports sound trite and petty. Rise above, people. Move on and rise above.

[pangaia]

58. What does Burlington College have to do with this?

Nothing.
You just changed the subject.

Hillary or Bill or anybody n this position SHOULD BE held accountable for at least honestly TRYING to do what they said they would do.

[olddad56]

32. do the Sanders work for Donald, or are they just donating thier time to get him elected?

I would have voted for Bernie in a heartbeat, but that ship has sailed.

[philly_bob]

33. Operationally, this means street protests in DC if/when ...

TPP is accepted.
Unnecessary extension of war, e.g., bomb Iran.
etc.

[wysi]

44. And...

Neither of those things is going to happen. Jane can relax.

[chwaliszewski]

77. Well, now I can feel confident after reading your statement.

What else is your crystal ball telling you?

[wysi]

122. You're thinking of the republican candidate

You know, the one who violated the Logan Act this week?

[chwaliszewski]

157. I was sarcastically responding to your proclamation that...

none of the worries of former Bernie supporters will come to fruition. How can you be so sure?

[patricia92243]

35. It would be more appropriate if she had waited til after the convention to say all this. n/t

[OwlinAZ]

217. Why?

[Me.]

37. Stop...Really...Just Stop

You've accorded yourself some type of status of being better than...the Sanders campaign made plenty of mistakes starting with hacking into places you never had any business being but you were never held accountable for anything including the awful things you husband said about our next president. In fact whenever caught out you all played the victim card and skated. You want to hold someone accountable? Hold your husband to that standard and see he does as he promised.

[Rex]

39. Why is it Dems are the only group that must be accountable for the way government runs?

Why does all the responsibility fall on Dem shoulders? Oh right, corporate press.

[TheKentuckian]

287. In no small part because the TeaPubLieKLANs are anti government loons

How does one make those who do not believe in trains responsible for them running on time?

The people that support, fund, and vote for them have no such agenda and so the sad reality is their officials and candidates are held to account for when they on rare occasions break down and actually do the job they are not supposed to believe in. See the reactions to the folks that in times of trouble acted minimally responsibly like Specter voting for the stimulus or Chris Christie taking disaster aid and displaying just a little humanity. Similar goes for Charlie Crist.

Meanwhile, the rest of the nation that doesn't consist of delusional political nihilists is forced by the definition of circumstances to place their expectations on the folks actually claiming to do the job.

I get your complaint but as far as I can calculate the place it has to be addressed is to TeaPubLieKLAN primary voters and it better be good because it has to be convincing enough to change their basic philosophy.
The rest of us are pretty limited in available tools to further hold them accountable we can't refuse beyond zero to vote for them, same goes with funding then, we do vote for, support, and fund their opposition. We reject their failed policies, delusional world view, and ideology.

There are neither carrots nor sticks available to do anything else with them, they have already been cut off so fully that nothing can be done to further hurt them within the confines of our system.

Of course it would probably be monumental if the media actually did their duty and acted as the referee on the field and consistently made politicians to account to the facts then that chunk of swing voters would know that we have a party dedicated to destroying the government rather than a difference in opinions in how to govern and consequently cease swinging which in turn would negate or force a change from TeaPubLieKLAN voters but as a nation we have generated an environment that actually dictates that is not their duty because their actual legal duty is to make money for their shareholders.

[NurseJackie]

40. Jane who?

[emulatorloo]

41. Fair enough. That's what we do, hold politicians accountable. Crappy timing though

[0rganism]

47. exactly - this is not controversial, but the timing... sucks

is there a Democrat who doesn't want President Clinton to uphold the Democratic platform? if it weren't for the timing, this wouldn't qualify as news.

[That Guy 888]

207. "is there a Democrat who doesn't want President Clinton to uphold the Democratic platform?" Yes!

Off the top of my head: Terry McAuliffe, Andrew Cuomo, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and Leon Panneta. When Clinton announces her cabinet I'm sure we'll see more.

[TDale313]

45. Good. We need to hold our leaders accountable.n/t

[Odin2005]

49. The people bashing Jane in this thread need to stop.

Are we not supposed to make sure our politicians keep their promises?

[DURHAM D]

51. Well... first they need to actually be in elective office. nt

[giftedgirl77]

52. Go away Jane.

You're going to be back in VT organizing you're files.

[think]

56. Should Hillary follow through on her commitments and promises?

[giftedgirl77]

149. I'm sure you are referring to releasing tax returns

or anything remotely similar & is expected of all presidential candidates?

[think]

150. Thank you for staying on topic. Hope you have a nice night.

[truebluegreen]

166. It has become traditional for presidential NOMINEES

which Bernie isn't and neither is Jane.

[giftedgirl77]

208. Lol, it's also traditional for losers to shut up & go away after.

[theaocp]

65. Say what? "Fat faces"?

What the flying fuck?

[UMTerp01]

55. This is what I told Bernie supporters to do way back when

Just because he didn't win the nomination doesn't mean their revolution ends. It is the beginning. You do need to hold Hillary's feet to the fire. Thats what the citizens should do with their political leaders and unfortunately we don't do it enough so I have no problem with what she said.

[David__77]

86. Thanks for your comments.

I agree that this is basically a matter of keeping political aware and active. And bringing in many tens of thousands of Democratic activists intent on providing direction and support to elected officials is, I think, a positive development.

[retrowire]

59. LOL at those getting defensive.

We aren't supposed to kneel to our leaders as this isn't a dictatorship.

We should be holding ALL ELECTED OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE.

That's not rocket science folks. We're not supposed to lick the boots of our leaders. Man you guys get weird sometimes.

Had Bernie won, I'd be holding him accountable. Since it's Hillary's turn I'm going to do just the same. That doesn't make me a traitor or an enemy. It makes me an American citizen that expects to get what he votes for.

[Lars39]

76. Well, said!

[Skittles]

128. but they AREN'T *all held accountable*

ONLY HILLARY

[retrowire]

148. You're living in a bubble if you believe that.

My family and I aren't too fond of Obama's use of drone strikes for one.

And there's a bone to pick with almost any politician out there for most people.

Don't feel so persecuted, it only feels that way because of the primary season. All politicians get held accountable.

[Skittles]

151. it's nowhere near the level of Hillary

way more than a repuke but as much as Hillary, no way

[adigal]

205. Baloney! I'm very disappointed in Obama for continued attacks

and the lack of any work on a number of issues.

As someone said up above, we are NOT a dictatorship. We don't kneel to our officials or lick their boots. Our public officials work for We, the People. We shouldn't worship them, but rather, hold them all accountable.

[Skittles]

268. LOLOL

awwww he was so trashed he spent TWO YEARS playing footsies with them - no way in HELL would Hillary have wasted that time, because she KNOWS what they really are

*DONE HERE*

[NNadir]

60. I'm holding her accountable for my huge headache. n/t

[rock]

61. Hey, wait a sec!

That's definitely NOT the rule for Trump! Why the double standard?

[Rustyeye77]

62. Great Jane.

It sounds like a threat.

[msongs]

63. hillary is human, we will wish to hold her accountable and she mostly will be but sometimes.....

she will not. that's how life goes.

[johnp3907]

67. Jane, you're playing a game you never can win.

[theaocp]

68. I like the message, though, as some have pointed out

the timing could be better. Perhaps. She might be trying to calm any more shenans at the convention by alluding to the idea of continuing the revolution alongside candidate support. There are ways of protesting and reforming that are more productive than others.

[LiberalLovinLug]

103. The timing is fine

And this should be hopefully only the first of many reminders as well if need be. Sanders had the support of 46% of all Democrats by the end of the campaign. She speaks for them - for us. This childish snot-nosed attitude in here is revolting. This kind of sore winner arrogant elitism I'd expect more from the other camp.

The political revolution that Bernie and Jane began to help create a fairer inclusive society will carry on. So sorry if that inconveniences some here.

[hereforthevoting]

192. +1

[CentralMass]

70. The Ministry Of Holding Their Feet To The Fire

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/imgres%3Fimgurl%3D%26imgrefurl%3Dhttp://dailyhaymaker.com/%3Fp%3D9667%26h%3D180%26w%3D240%26tbnid%3D7puri9UycUjgaM%26tbnh%3D144%26tbnw%3D192%26usg%3D__1H3FjvAD_yO1GwDPfbo2uv-45v0%3D%26docid%3D23cZ6OckqqWOHM&ved=0ahUKEwjZicSynJDOAhVE8mMKHa4HC74Q8g0IIDAA&usg=AFQjCNGJUPUpZiIuHnK7vanNDiZlWBH8xw&sig2=NDzZX6Q9BgjpGs875Th1ZQ

[Arazi]

75. Good

[Lil Missy]

78. Go do your taxes Jane. n/t

[Historic NY]

79. Jane go home and fix those tax returns I feel an audit coming on.....

[David__77]

84. What do her taxes have to do with this?

Is something wrong with her taxes that informs her discussion of her support for Clinton?

[David__77]

81. Thank you Jane Sanders.

Plenty of people, I imagine, will give their support to Clinton in such an authentic fashion.

[Politicub]

88. Why does this make my blood boil?

Hillary doesn't need Sanders to prop her up. His support is welcome, but not his family's concern trolling.

[democrattotheend]

256. It shouldn't

I read what she said as reassurance to Bernie's supporters who are reluctant to support Hillary that they can support her while still holding her accountable. I don't see why so many Clinton supporters are infuriated by that. I myself made that same argument to a couple potential BOB's I met in Philly. They were skeptical of whether Hillary would actually stick to any of the progressive proposals in the platform, and I said that if she doesn't, we could hold her accountable and even support a primary challenger in 2020. But if we don't elect her none of the platform will be enacted and we will be ruled by a wannabe fascist dictator.

I really don't see what was offensive about what Jane Sanders said.

[Tarc]

92. Jane Sanders needs to be held accountable for the thousands of defrauded students

faculty, and staff of Burlington College.

[jalan48]

94. As it should be. Thanks Jane!

[LongtimeAZDem]

97. Fair enough; I continue to hold Sanders accountable for actions of his minions (nt)

[democrattotheend]

145. Stupid comparison

Jane Sanders is talking about holding Hillary accountable for her own actions, not the actions of her rank and file supporters.

[LongtimeAZDem]

155. Sanders' own actions, and inaction, are why his rank and file are acting the way they are (nt)

[SirBrockington]

159. It was fostered and allowed to continue unabated basically until Monday morning.

Even McCain stopped the hysteria before it got that out of control, even McCain.


It was 50/50 as recently as halfway through his speech Monday that Sanders was or wasn't going to actually pull a Cruz.

[democrattotheend]

160. It was not 50/50

He had ALREADY ENDORSED before Monday. Why would anyone think he would pull a Ted Cruz when he had already endorsed her?

Plus, he was specifically asked if he would do anything like that and he said no.

Maybe he should have prepared his delegates better, but I think he and his campaign staff were caught off guard by some of their behavior. Remember, they booed at him too.

[That Guy 888]

204. No, if it was because of Sanders actions, it would have gone away with his endorsement.

I won't speak for all Sanders supporters, but for me, I don't believe Clinton will be anything other than what I've seen with my own eyes: a big-business-friendly neocon who likes destructive trade deals and moar war. The revelations about the DNC just added some fuel to the fire.

I like Sanders, but he doesn't have the power over me that you seem to think he does.


Given all of that, if it seems like Texas is in play I'll plug my nose and vote for the lesser/saner of two evils. It's still a vote and that's all Clinton cares for.

[LongtimeAZDem]

229. It was out of control long before the endorsement finally came

Even before Nevada, many people observed that the Senator had let things get out of hand, and that he needed to say something to rope them in.

The public calls to disrupt the convention have been going on for more than a month, and he said nothing; they started planning a "fart-in" for crying out loud, and he said nothing. He owns this.

Edited to add: The people did not get whipped up without Sanders' input; that was the intent all along. Many of us constantly asked how he planned to enact his policies, and hos supporters repeatedly threw out this quote:

"There's a million young people out there who don't want to be in debt for half their life for the crime of going to college. If you want to antagonize those million people and lose your job, Mitch, if you don't want to lose your job, you better start listening to what we have to say." That's the point. That's how change takes place. "

Like it or not, he formed the notion of disruption, fed it, and then ignored it as it became a monster.

[That Guy 888]

258. Which people"observed that the Senator had let things get out of hand", the DNC that backed Clinton?

The reasons I dislike the fact that Hillary Clinton will most likely be the President didn't have anything whatsoever to do with Bernie Sanders. A very loose analogy would be how the republicans felt about willard romney.

She and the DNC paraded out speakers at the convention who very much want more (30 years) war, and more trade deals, and more business friendly Democrats. It undermines (to me, admittedly) her half-assed unity efforts. Then when she put Debbie Wasserman-Schultz onto the 50 State Strategy as honorary chair, that said to me: "You're either with us or against us. If you don't like it, fuck off."

So for me anyways it has nothing to do with Bernie Sanders.

To further identify my position, no I am not saying vote for trump . This might be my time to take the second part of the message above though and "fuck off" from a party whose leadership is interested in more war, trade deals that undermine workers rights and environmental laws, as well as limiting access unless you can pony up the kind of cash that major corporations can and making the Democratic Party(which I've belonged to since I could vote) into a business friendly, center-right, moderate republican party.

they started planning a "fart-in" for crying out loud

Are you aware that was a satirical Dave Barry op-ed, or are you just hoping no one else is?
http://www.miamiherald.com/living/liv-columns-blogs/dave-barry/article91579192.html

Many of us constantly asked how he planned to enact his policies

Many of us ask how Clinton will enact her policies since what was true for Sanders is true for Clinton. How will her policies pass a republican House and Senate? No doubt it's that Clinton charm... like when Bill "ended welfare as we know it&quot fuck it, why not? Poor people don't vote anyways.)

Like it or not, he formed the notion of disruption, fed it, and then ignored it as it became a monster.

Like it or not there are legitimate reasons to doubt Clinton's commitment to anything that wasn't invented here(as in her plans and what the DNC agreed to before the primary started) Many of the people who will vote for Clinton will just be holding their nose and blocking trump... whatever it takes to win right?

[SirBrockington]

99. The gig was up when he said he's known her 25 years

Then this "earns our trust" stuff as if they've just met the past few months. The primary
didn't get ugly until Bernie won Michigan and began to think he might have a chance at winning.

[ozone_man]

100. I wish we could have held Obama accountable.

For the promised change that never appeared. Let's turn over a new leaf and request Hillary live up to her promises. I know politicians often make promises based on public opinion, and then when in office, go back to business as usual. This needs to change. Now's a good time.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

107. More bullshit!! Ask yourself WHY Obama

couldn't accomplish everything? Republican and some cowardly Democrats obstructed him every step of the way.

Why don't you turn to the real enemy - the Republicans - and hold THEM accountable? Why do people like you always fucking blame the president FIRST and not turn to the Republicans?

LEARN HOW GOVERNMENT WORKS!!

[ozone_man]

126. I think Obama had both houses of Congress to start.

If he really wanted change, that was a good time to start. Sadly, the change never happened, and he appointed a weak AG (Holder) who prosecuted not a single Wall Street banker in the crime of our time. I won't rail on him, just saying that going forward, we need to hold politicians accountable to their promises. Obama is still at war, still 0℅ interest rates indicating an economy on life support. We can do better.

[csziggy]

138. President Obama has accomplished an amazing amount in his years in office

THE List of 371 Obama Accomplishments so far, With Citations

Obama’s Top 50 Accomplishments

[link:http://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/marchapril-2012/the-incomplete-greatness-of-barack-obama-2/|March/April 2012
The Incomplete Greatness of Barack Obama
He’s gotten more done in three years than any president in decades. Too bad the American public still thinks he hasn’t accomplished anything.]


If you don't think there has been change in this country in the last seven + years, you are either living in a bubble or you are delusional. Stop believing everything you hear or read in the media. They have been trying to frame Obama as a failure almost since he got into office. It is a LIE.

[adigal]

209. I think that's way exaggerated

I give him credit for the ACA, but the insurance companies give him even more credit. War? We are still using drones. Economy? Yes, I give him much credit, but he didn't use the bully pulpit to help the 1/4 of American kids in poverty. Why aren't we screaming about that every day? Why isn't he? He nibbled around the edges of things, but he certainly wasn't a great President, as many here claim. He was ok. Didn't have scandals. But likes to be liked too much, I think, to be effective.

The thing I like most about Hillay is that she is under no delusions about working with the Republicans. I think that if she truly wants to be, she will be far more effective at beating them.

[wallyworld2]

102. Good for her

Senator Sanders is no Senator McCain who was more about sour grapes than accomplishing some progressive legislation like what Senator Sanders will do.

There is no down side for Democrats holding President Clinton to her party platform.

[stupidicus]

104. a perfectly reasonable attitude that Sander's detractors have failed to

undermine in any way

[GeoWilliam750]

106. The mean spirited attitude of so many posters here is really rather frightening

Hillary will need Bernie's supporters to win, and so much of what I hear from her supporters on this site is "Kiss my ass and piss off, you losers. But remember to vote for Hillary, you losers, or we will end up with Donald Trump."

Sometimes I wonder whether there are a bunch of right wing trolls on the website trying to stir up fights.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

113. Oh please! The person who posted this thread

knew exactly what he/she are doing and so do Jane. She couldn't wait until after today to get snarky with Hillary. Her tone is so fucking condescending and bitter. It's a turn off and it does nothing to heal the sour feelings from the primaries. Her bitter, snarky attitude does nothing to unify this party...

Oh wait...they're not a member of the Democratic Party! Figures!

[GeoWilliam750]

120. Is this post supposed to make me want to become an enthusiastic Hillary supporter?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

129. I really don't give a damn. This is a free

country still.

Vote how you want.

[SirBrockington]

147. +1

[Demit]

146. Sounds like you're holding out for something.

What can we do to make you want to become an enthusiastic Hillary supporter? Please, tell us.

[GeoWilliam750]

168. One might think that courtesy and decency would be a good start for unifying the party

Whilst I am not sure that I will ever truly be enthusiastic, I can probably get to the point of pulling a lever for her, but the constant torrent of vitriol against anything Bernie is really very alienating. Much of it appears to be against the new terms of service, as well.

Politics is all about affirmation and domination. "Us or them". A number of posters on this site seem to expect abject submission from Bernie supporters, and their meek acquiescence to insults, taunts, belittling. Personally, I would think that informed, reasoned, and enthusiastic cooperation from Bernie supporters would be very much more in the interest of the party.

People who are insulted repeatedly do not generally wish to cooperate, but instead to do the opposite of what the insulter wants - even if it is apparently contrary to their own interest. I remember watching some of the Bernie supporters being outraged and insulting to the poster, Bravenak, when the BLM protestors took over the stage at a Bernie event early in the primary battle. At the time, Bravenak stated that she was sympathetic to Bernie in many ways, but that it might be good for Bernie supporters to understand what BLM means to the AA community, as well as how popular Hillary is in the AA community and why. Instead of listening and learning from Bravenak - who had some interesting points of view - they heaped abuse upon abuse on her, and lost what chance they had to obtain valuable insight and informed cooperation. Instead of earning her cooperation, they permanently alienated her, and turned her into quite a proliferous antagonist.

Affirmation and domination. "Us and them". Treating people as family with whom we have some small - and reconcilable - differences, will go much further than, "Sit down, shut up and vote for my candidate, you LOSER, what you think and want means NOTHING."

This is why I wonder whether many of the posters here are either trolls or puppets. I find it difficult to understand this level abuse to other people in the party.

[LiberalLovinLug]

123. Williams point made

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

130. I'm not licking rabid Sanders fans who cant

help to unify this party without resorting to backhanded, condescending remarks!

You do what you want and vote how you will!

[LiberalLovinLug]

134. Alrighty then

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

135. Posting this snark crap does not help matters

Either we are going to unify or we aren't

[adigal]

212. I just shake my head

It's like "F off, Bernie supporters, we don't need you, but if Trump wins, it's your fault."

The level of cognitive dissonance is making my head spin.

[GummyBearz]

237. Agreed

A lot of posters here are coming off exactly like you put it. The only thing worse than a bad loser is a bad winner.

[OwlinAZ]

220. It's hard to fathom and best ignored.

[Wednesdays]

238. Indeed.

The ignore button is our friend.

[enid602]

108. sad

I did not vote for her husbaand, but welcome her participation and imput. I'd feel less comfortable if major parts of the party decided to boycott the convention. The repub convention was just sad.

[Skittles]

125. LOL

when has Hillary NOT been held accountable?

[AZ Mike]

132. How is this controversial to anyone?

The idea of holding a candidate to their word on the campaign trail is something that should be universally welcomed.

[Martin Eden]

133. Holding our elected representatives (including president) accountable

... is a prime responsibility for every voter that extends beyond election day.

No exceptions.

[Mike Nelson]

136. There is nothing wrong with...

...Jane's basic point. However, the language has a bitter and confrontational tone. She should be saying something like, "We're looking forward to working with President Clinton ... to move forward progressive ideas." Of course, the folks at Rolling Stone might be putting a negative spin on this... if not, I'd say she's almost daring Hillary to do battle. Not good..

[beachbumbob]

137. We should hold the Bernie accountable for berniebusters?...,

[FailureToCommunicate]

139. Yes, as citizens in a democracy, we all should. The level of bile and anger on this thread is

nauseating.

[WinkyDink]

290. Bernie supporters need mirrors.

[democrattotheend]

142. I would expect nothing less

That is what I have said to a couple people who said they would not heed Bernie's call to support Hillary. I pointed out that I am sure he will hold her accountable after the election and the best thing we can do is elect her and then hold her accountable.

[hollowdweller]

143. I think what she is saying

Is not that they expect Clinton to make good on everything she has said. That's impossible.

But that if she doesn't at least TRY they are going to complain in public.

For instance: There will be major bitching from them if Hillary turns around and passes TPP with a few minor changes.

Or if she gets us in another quagmire like the Iraq war she voted for.

But really I think Clinton will take steps to make sure she is representing the real dems.

[DonCoquixote]

152. key word "after"

In other words, come the inauguration, people are going to remind Clinton they helped her, this is so not news/

[oswaldactedalone]

153. I regret my primary vote for

Bernie. Had no idea how petty his wife is and am disgusted with the behavior of these spoiled shits at the convention.

[Skittles]

154. it was evident to many of us long ago

[OwlinAZ]

221. How old are you?

[oswaldactedalone]

265. If you're referring to me

I'm 60. Wanna fidaboudit?

[democrattotheend]

254. What was petty about what she said?

If anything, I saw it as an appeal to Bernie's supporters who are reluctant to vote for Hillary and some of whom are even angry at Bernie for endorsing her, by reassuring those supporters that just because Bernie supports her doesn't mean we can't hold her accountable. That is the argument I have tried to make to several BOB's this week. I don't see why so many Clinton people are offended by this interview.

Note that she also acknowledged that the vote wasn't close enough that the DNC shenanigans could have made a difference. I should think you would be happy about that, at least.

[OwlinAZ]

286. You are the spoiled brat and a vulgar brat to boot.

[oswaldactedalone]

293. Peace to you

I could come up with a snarky insult but won't. Please vote for Democrats.

[kacekwl]

156. You know a lot of Bernie supporters are

are going to hold their noses and vote for Hillary not just because he lost the primary but because of the shifts in her positions and support for issues that are important to them . Trust and verify I believe is what Jane is saying. If Hillary was sincere in her campaign then all will be good. And by the way some of the comments above are shameful really.

[Philly-Union-Man]

158. Shouldn't we all hold her accountable to,her promises?

Seriously, we all wanted to hold President Obama accountable and we were disappointed in his inability to uphold some of them. That's the point isn't it?


Jane wasn't saying to hold her accountable for whatever in the wikileaks but for the platform promises.

[democrattotheend]

255. That is how I read it as well

And I agree with you 100%.

[joeybee12]

161. Sour grapes, special on aisle 3

I think Bernie took so long endorsing because Jane is so bitter

[WIProgressive88]

162. Dear Lord...how is this even controversial?!

Of course Hillary needs to be held accountable! All politicians do! Especially the good ones like Hillary, President Obama, and yes, Bernie Sanders, because we know they have it in them to do the right thing...sometimes they just need a little nudge. THIS is what the Bernie or Busters should be focusing on instead of booing and whining.

[OwlinAZ]

222. It is not controversial. This site is overrun by the immature.

[mercuryblues]

163. Well Jane

let me tell you how this works.

You need to give Hillary Clinton the tools she needs to accomplish things. Such as making sure Dems get elected to the senate. Not just DWS opponent. Making sure you do not try to kneecap her at every turn.

'cause guess what. Anything less is unacceptable. We are holding YOU accountable. If you need a clue on what to do, just look at what she did to help get Obama elected.

[That Guy 888]

210. Yawn

If you need a clue on what to do, just look at what she did to help get Obama elected.

Not much. President Obama didn't have such a horrible history that he needed her help.

[dflprincess]

164. As we all should

with every politician.

[JesterCS]

170. Am I on FR?

Some of you guys / girls are acting just like them

[That Guy 888]

211. There are a few on here that remind me of bush's dead-enders. Loyal from begining to the end. n/t

[LiberalLovinLug]

246. This place has become infested by trolls

from the Dons camp. The piling on on Bernies partner for daring to suggest we must hold politicians accountable. Especially one that you have just hammered out a platform with.

There can be no other explanation. I believe real DUers wouldn't stoop this low

[unitedwethrive]

171. Keep talking…

[colsohlibgal]

172. As We All Should

An early key will be who she assembles as her financial team. Let us hope it is not more in and out of Goldman types.

And really, shouldn't all elected officials be held accountable? I don't see anything controversial about what Jane said.

[apnu]

173. Sure that's fine.

Its on the people's shoulders to keep elected officials honest and accountable.

Go for it Jane, Hillary will listen.

[NanceGreggs]

176. Yeah, that's great, Jane.

And speaking of holding people responsible, have you found those tax returns yet?

[RandySF]

189. Jane Sanders better look over her shoulder.

The Burlington College issue may not yet be resolved.

[JoFerret]

196. Go away already.

The convention pandered enough to your bloated ego.. You couldn't manage your Brownshirts at the convention. And don't take responsibility for the crap you set in motion. Now pipe down with the nonsense get to work defeating Trump And if you can't do that just do the pipe down bit. Enough of you already. There's work to be done.

[onenote]

199. June 7?

I voted for Bernie in Virginia, but I knew it was over and he wasn't winning the nomination long before that. And if Jane didn't she shouldn't be advising anyone on political matters.

[GulfCoast66]

213. We should all do our best

To hold our politicians accountable.

Unfortunately, Bernie did not anticipate the number of loons he was going to attract and they showed their asses at the convention, weakening his position in the party. You can read multiple post here by disgusted sopporters of his. He will still have influence, but less than had he been more of a team player.

Jane, not so much.

[tonyt53]

226. Time to drop it. If Sanders supporters aren't on board now, they will never be.

[judesedit]

228. Absolutely hold the Clinton admin accountable. We all should. This is serious business.

[True Dough]

231. The divide here remains deep, and it doesn't bode well

GOP supporters are no doubt rubbing their hands with glee over the fracture among the Dems, just like their party is split with Drumpf at the helm.

The name calling and insults in this thread give me a bad feeling as we move forward. Hopefully the hard feelings can be buried as we get closer to November. Otherwise the consequences are going to be severe with Don the Con in the White House.

[Wednesdays]

239. Your hand-wringing is noted.

nt

[True Dough]

249. What is that?

Your idea of putting me on notice that I qualify for the witch-hunt list?

[QC]

251. It's a gutless, passive-aggressive way of calling you a troll.

Sadly, that's what passes for discussion around here these days.

[True Dough]

252. That's what I figured

I don't have a lot of posts around here but the vast majority of them are critical of Trump, or poking fun at him. I absolutely detest the man.

But if anyone dares to point out that there may be some flaws in the Dems' game, even if it's constructive criticism, then it's bound to elicit some accusations of being a traitor, at least around here. I try to consider the source, but I'm just getting a feel for some of the many personalities that frequent this forum. "Wednesdays" starts off with a -1. Hopefully he/she proves to be more open minded in the future.

Anyway, cheers QC (quality control?).

[bigwillq]

243. I, too, will be holding Clinton accountable.

And I would do the same if Bernie were the nominee.

[OnDoutside]

248. And that's only fair. Republican obstruction not withstanding of course, which is why it is so vital

to get control of the Senate and Congress asap.

[Raster]

250. Hear! Hear!

[democrattotheend]

297. Same. And I expect Bernie will hold her accountable too

Just because he is supporting her now does not mean he won't or shouldn't hold her accountable from the left as a senator once she is elected, or even during the campaign if she strays away from the promises on policy that she made to secure his endorsement.

[Mellomugwump]

261. Maybe I'm naive

But I don't believe that Hillary doesn't want the same things that Bernie does, but she knows that a dem can't get elected if they go all out on a progressive platform, and then we get nothing. The country is made up of lefties, righties and in betweens, you can't just appeal to the lefties.

I don't for a minute believe that both Hillary and Obame weren't ever for gay marriage. They started with civil unions because they knew they needed to take baby steps and let people get used to it a little at a time. Once Obama got elected the second time, he went all in because he could. He was re-elected and they had four years for everybody to get used to the final step before the Dems had to run again.

I align more with Bernie's publicly stated ideas, but you can't convince me that he could have won the general election. I don't care what the polls said.

And I'm mad that I wasn't allowed to enjoy all of the great moments this week because of the disruptions and embarrassing displays. Heckling a civil rights hero? Really? That man has faced more adversity than any of those people ever will.

I lost all respect.

[Mellomugwump]

262. And another thing...

Would Elijah Cummings and John Lewis be endorsing a lying, manipulative, corporate shill if that's what she truly was, and don't we think that they can tell the difference?

[athena]

267. Great post!

My feelings almost exactly. My views are also more in line with Bernie's, but I've been a Hillary supporter since close to the beginning. Not only because she's more electable, but also because she is so much better than the lies we've all been fed. One just has to read a couple of articles about her, or listen to Bill Clinton's DNC speech, to realize that she's a good person who really cares and wants to make the world a better place.

Despite the disruptions and the infighting, I believe that Bernie's candidacy has in the end made Hillary stronger. This is what my brilliant husband had predicted, but I hadn't agreed. Now, though, I have to admit that Hillary would not have been able to go so far left without Bernie's candidacy and all the support Bernie received. (I do happen to believe that many* of Bernie's supporters were against Hillary due to misogyny, but despite their hatred, their efforts only made Hillary stronger.)

* "many"; not "all", and possibly not even "most".

[Ken Burch]

283. Nothing wrong with that.

All she's saying is they will stand up for what the Sanders campaign fought for-the vast majority of which is wildly popular.

HRC was nominated...but in many respects Bernie won the argument.

And we're in a stronger place because he did.

[WinkyDink]

291. Obama had "The Audacity of Hope." Jane has "The Arrogance of Defeat." Sick of this "HRC better....or

else!"

[yurbud]

295. "Trust but verify," as Reagan said, and he's someone DLCers criticize as rarely as they praise FDR

[hughee99]

300. Just curious, how does she intend to do this?

They don't really have any leverage anymore.

[bluedye33139]

301. I would love to see Jane Sanders and Hillary Clinton speaking to each other

Something tells me that HRC would come away without a sceatch.