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Tue Dec 13, 2016, 08:26 AM

Records: Too many votes in 37% of Detroits precincts

Source: Detroit News

Voting machines in more than one-third of all Detroit precincts registered more votes than they should have during last months presidential election, according to Wayne County records prepared at the request of The Detroit News.

Detailed reports from the office of Wayne County Clerk Cathy Garrett show optical scanners at 248 of the citys 662 precincts, or 37 percent, tabulated more ballots than the number of voters tallied by workers in the poll books. Voting irregularities in Detroit have spurred plans for an audit by Michigan Secretary of State Ruth Johnsons office, Elections Director Chris Thomas said Monday.

The Detroit precincts are among those that couldnt be counted during a statewide presidential recount that began last week and ended Friday following a decision by the Michigan Supreme Court. Democrat Hillary Clinton overwhelmingly prevailed in Detroit and Wayne County. But Republican President-elect Donald Trump won Michigan by 10,704 votes or 47.5 percent to 47.3 percent.

Overall, state records show 10.6 percent of the precincts in the 22 counties that began the retabulation process couldnt be recounted because of state law that bars recounts for unbalanced precincts or ones with broken seals. The problems were the worst in Detroit, where discrepancies meant officials couldnt recount votes in 392 precincts, or nearly 60 percent. And two-thirds of those precincts had too many votes.

Read more: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/records-many-votes-detroits-precincts/95363314/

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Reply Records: Too many votes in 37% of Detroits precincts (Original post)
MichMan Dec 2016 OP
Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #1
forthemiddle Dec 2016 #4
Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #38
Yo_Mama Dec 2016 #8
stillcool Dec 2016 #2
JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2016 #6
MichMan Dec 2016 #13
JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2016 #15
former9thward Dec 2016 #24
brush Dec 2016 #26
MichMan Dec 2016 #32
brush Dec 2016 #33
stillcool Dec 2016 #16
Qutzupalotl Dec 2016 #10
MichMan Dec 2016 #11
Qutzupalotl Dec 2016 #14
MichMan Dec 2016 #17
Qutzupalotl Dec 2016 #18
MichMan Dec 2016 #20
Qutzupalotl Dec 2016 #25
think Dec 2016 #3
forthemiddle Dec 2016 #5
MichMan Dec 2016 #21
MichMan Dec 2016 #7
ucrdem Dec 2016 #9
Abouttime Dec 2016 #12
Name removed Dec 2016 #19
Blanks Dec 2016 #28
texasmomof3 Dec 2016 #30
brush Dec 2016 #34
MichMan Dec 2016 #35
ffr Dec 2016 #22
MichMan Dec 2016 #23
Sunlei Dec 2016 #27
Blanks Dec 2016 #29
Sunlei Dec 2016 #31
Uponthegears Dec 2016 #36
MichMan Dec 2016 #37

Response to MichMan (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 08:55 AM

1. and of course the right will go nuts over this because the black vote there

 

but the article doesn't say how much the vote is off, or which way it went. Maybe there were illegal Trump votes there?

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 10:03 AM

4. Why wouldn't they go nuts?

Wouldn't we be going nuts if this was Waukesha county in Wisconsin? Or any other precinct that went 95 % Trump?

This is unacceptable, no matter where it happens.

As for why they wouldn't recount them, apparently the law that says they can't is from 1954, so maybe it's time to update that law.

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Response to forthemiddle (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 04:25 PM

38. True. I just hope it's not padded votes for HRC, and if so hopefully it's only small differences

 

nothing big

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 10:37 AM

8. These were extremely strong precincts for Clinton.

We'll have to see the outcome, but it is not unreasonable for state authorities to investigate, and if these precincts had gone strongly for Trump, we would be screaming about it.

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Response to MichMan (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 09:12 AM

2. wonder how that happens

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Response to stillcool (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 10:10 AM

6. Machines had a higher number than the poll workers' tally.

"... optical scanners at 248 of the citys 662 precincts, or 37 percent, tabulated more ballots than the number of voters tallied by workers ..."

Machines probably counted the number of ballots fed to them. Poll workers are human, easily distracted, bored by tedium, or just forgot.

Sometimes, I look at a pill bottle and wonder if I took that pill this morning or not.

No surprise that there are discrepancies. It shouldn't be a reason to nullify a recount.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 10:56 AM

13. Yet many are demanding hand counts as the standard

If poll workers are human, easily distracted, bored by tedium or forgetful, why do so many advocate for hand counted ballots instead of machines?

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Response to MichMan (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 11:05 AM

15. Hand-recounts are done by multiple workers

and usually observed (and obstructed, apparently) by partisan representatives.

So, less boredom, more eyes.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:26 PM

24. I have appointed to an election audit committee for my county in AZ for years.

We randomly select precincts after the election to hand count (which we do). So far the machines have never been wrong -- even once.

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Response to MichMan (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:37 PM

26. With hand counts there's more than one person doing it. Both sides have a representative

Of all the places, Detroit is the last place that needed to cheat for Hillary as she was going to win by a huge margin.

Something is sketchy there. Sounds like dirty tricks tampering to invalid sure Dem votes.

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Response to brush (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:52 PM

32. I believe it was sloppiness and poor training not malfeasance

If anything, extra votes were recorded for Hillary

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Response to MichMan (Reply #32)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:58 PM

33. Could be, but there was no need to add Clinton votes. She was going to win anyway

I still say something sounds shady.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 11:12 AM

16. In that case

It would be an insignificant amount....and a very normal occurrence. There's that "normal" word again.

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Response to stillcool (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 10:46 AM

10. If the ballots are re-fed due to problems

such as not registering a vote for president, the counts will be off. A recount would show this, but that's illegal under a 1954 state law.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 10:51 AM

11. These issues were ignored election night

Detroit election staff knew the counts didn't match the night of the election and certified them anyway. They need to be held accountable.

Worrying about why they weren't included in a recount isn't the important issue here. Had there been no recount the totals still would have been recorded wrong

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Response to MichMan (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 11:05 AM

14. If the machines had worked correctly

the discrepancies wouldn't exist. But machines in Detroit broke down repeatedly.

The issue is that the recount of these mismatched precincts can't be done at all under state law. That law needs to be repealed.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 11:24 AM

17. So erroneous vote totals are to be ignored unless there is a recount?

The rest of the state uses the same machines and they didn't nearly have the same amount of problems. Multiple other precincts across the state indicated that when these issues did occur they were either reconciled or explained that night before the totals were certified. In Detroit this was not done.

Apparently the election workers were poorly trained, poorly supervised, or thought it was "close enough" and didn't care. This is the responsibility of the local elected officials. Hopefully the state investigation will determine what failed.

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Response to MichMan (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 11:26 AM

18. Vote totals cannot be verified without a recount.

If you're in Michigan, I hope you'll push for a repeal of that crazy law.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 11:34 AM

20. They should be verified the night of the election, not only when there is a recount

They are supposed to be verified the night of the election when the number of votes matches the number of voters. The Board of Canvassers then certified those totals.

In these cases, the totals were submitted incorrectly and still certified.

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Response to MichMan (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:33 PM

25. And there is no recourse,

thus the need to change the law.

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Response to MichMan (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 09:58 AM

3. This should be the reason for a recount not the reason to avoid one.....

 

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Response to think (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 10:04 AM

5. The law that states they can't be recounted

Apparently was written in the 1950's so maybe now is the time to change it before the next election.

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Response to forthemiddle (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 11:42 AM

21. I think that law had good intentions originally

The 1954 law needs to be revisited for sure. It appears that the original intent was to not allow situations where "extra" ballots were somehow inserted.

Imagine a situation where 800 people signed in to vote, but there were hundreds of "extra" ballots in the box marked for Trump. Are you saying during a recount, that those should all be counted giving him more votes than voters?

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Response to MichMan (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 10:34 AM

7. Isnt getting the count right on election night most important?

I am much more concerned on getting the count right the first time than what happens during a recount

Happy to see the state is investigating, so this doesn't happen again.

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Response to MichMan (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 10:40 AM

9. They don't seem to be in any particular hurry.

And they weren't exactly eager to comply with a legitimate recount request from a candidate on the ballot.

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Response to MichMan (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 10:53 AM

12. Remember, this election was stolen

 

The machines might have been tampered with to record one trump vote on every ballot, this needs to be looked into.

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Response to Abouttime (Reply #12)


Response to Abouttime (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:41 PM

28. Cross-check may be to blame...

Maybe they took names away after they'd voted.

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Response to Abouttime (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:42 PM

30. With HRC winning 95% of the vote there not likely. nt

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Response to texasmomof3 (Reply #30)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 01:04 PM

34. Hillary certain to win 95%, seems like a prime target to make sure those votes weren't counted

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Response to brush (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 01:07 PM

35. They were all counted the first time

In fact some were counted twice

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Response to MichMan (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 11:47 AM

22. From what I read and what said in the video report, cavalier attitude seems to sum up the concern

Meh, no big deal. We'll look into it before next election.

As far as the 3 hour wait for voters in lines, we're looking into combining precincts.

Combining precincts? Wouldn't you want to expand the number of precincts?

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Response to ffr (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 11:58 AM

23. I agree

If I had to guess it was due to poor training and/or supervision by the Detroit elected officials. Since Hillary was expected to win and Detroit votes 95% blue, the election staff probably figured it didn't matter and they just wanted to go home. A few extra votes didn't really matter anyway. No one ever expected a recount.

(Note: pure conjecture on my part, do not know what happened.)

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Response to MichMan (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:41 PM

27. 47.5 to 47.3, much closer. were provisional votes ever counted? & what about the 90k 'blank ballots?

were they really blank? or did the tabulator machines 'count' the 'blanks' twice?

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #27)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:42 PM

29. The provisional ballots are key...

That's the message that everyone should stay on.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #29)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:45 PM

31. I can't even find a state count of how many provisional votes are pending, thought its about 50,000?

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Response to MichMan (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 01:14 PM

36. First a confession

 

I hold a bias against tabulation errors being blamed for electoral outcomes. (This is largely because I am still . . . fine, I'll use the expression . . . butt-hurt from 2000 when I spent months begging the DNC to put some money behind fighting for the 10's of 1000's of convicted felons who were wrongfully stripped of their right to vote by the Choicepoint/Katherine Harris cabal but were more than happy to throw money at a relatively small number of butterfly ballot discrepancies in South Florida.)

STILL, I am perplexed by why so many people want to make excuses for the discrepencies in Detroit. It's like a lot of people have just accepted the RIGHT WING narrative that because this happened in urban neighborhoods it shows Hillary received votes from "imaginary" voters.

Friends, it wasn't Hillary who outperformed the polls in these neighborhoods. She supposedly "underperformed" in urban communities.

So who was it that outperformed the polls in Detroit? Who got more votes than they "should" have got?

Was it an orange orangutan?

Well yes it was.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #36)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 01:31 PM

37. Trump received 3 % of the votes

Last edited Tue Dec 13, 2016, 06:58 PM - Edit history (1)

I think we all agree that elections need to be fair, voter suppression is wrong and votes need to counted fairly regardless of who benefits. Being I have lived in Michigan my entire life, this is embarrassing and needs to be addressed.

If this had occurred in bright red districts, there would be an uproar about cheating etc. Most people in this case believe that it was caused by sloppiness and not an attempts to cheat . The only people who do think it was done intentionally are avid RW.

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