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Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:18 AM

Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops

Source: AP

AP () Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants.

adding link here:

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/donald-trump-1/2017/02/17/trump-admin-considers-mobilizing-100000-national-guard-troops-round-unauthorized-immigrants

The Trump administration is considering a proposal to mobilize as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants, including millions living nowhere near the Mexico border, according to a draft memo obtained by The Associated Press.

The 11-page document calls for the unprecedented militarization of immigration enforcement as far north as Portland, Oregon, and as far east as New Orleans, Louisiana.

Four states that border on Mexico are included in the proposal - California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas - but it also encompasses seven states contiguous to those four - Oregon, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

Governors in the 11 states would have a choice whether to have their guard troops participate, according to the memo, written by U.S. Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly, a retired four-star Marine general.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/trump-administration-considers-mobilizing-100000-national-guard-troops-45561414

105 replies, 11437 views

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Reply Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops (Original post)
deminks Feb 2017 OP
2naSalit Feb 2017 #1
wordpix Feb 2017 #58
MADem Feb 2017 #63
wordpix Feb 2017 #95
MADem Feb 2017 #101
Ilsa Feb 2017 #2
Hortensis Feb 2017 #88
Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2017 #3
2naSalit Feb 2017 #72
ColemanMaskell Feb 2017 #85
Hortensis Feb 2017 #87
Honeycombe8 Feb 2017 #98
True Dough Feb 2017 #102
HoneyBadger Feb 2017 #4
Tommy Generico Feb 2017 #19
tavernier Feb 2017 #26
Fred Sanders Feb 2017 #33
DK504 Feb 2017 #40
kiranerys Feb 2017 #52
lunatica Feb 2017 #105
mrmpa Feb 2017 #93
mahatmakanejeeves Feb 2017 #5
atreides1 Feb 2017 #18
mahatmakanejeeves Feb 2017 #27
MADem Feb 2017 #67
paleotn Feb 2017 #81
onetexan Feb 2017 #86
Hortensis Feb 2017 #89
Turbineguy Feb 2017 #6
yeoman6987 Feb 2017 #28
ManiacJoe Feb 2017 #82
vlyons Feb 2017 #7
HoneyBadger Feb 2017 #9
Achilleaze Feb 2017 #8
murielm99 Feb 2017 #39
kiranerys Feb 2017 #53
Achilleaze Feb 2017 #59
workinclasszero Feb 2017 #91
Doreen Feb 2017 #77
OKNancy Feb 2017 #10
Phoenix61 Feb 2017 #11
Marthe48 Feb 2017 #16
BillyBobBrilliant Feb 2017 #12
Wuddles440 Feb 2017 #13
riversedge Feb 2017 #14
packman Feb 2017 #15
volstork Feb 2017 #17
greymattermom Feb 2017 #20
politicat Feb 2017 #35
kiranerys Feb 2017 #56
Tommy Generico Feb 2017 #21
christx30 Feb 2017 #37
GusBob Feb 2017 #22
kiranerys Feb 2017 #54
Marthe48 Feb 2017 #23
HAB911 Feb 2017 #24
politicat Feb 2017 #36
uppityperson Feb 2017 #25
herding cats Feb 2017 #29
7962 Feb 2017 #83
woundedkarma Feb 2017 #30
byronius Feb 2017 #34
Alice11111 Feb 2017 #74
SCVDem Feb 2017 #31
Lurks Often Feb 2017 #32
W T F Feb 2017 #44
Lurks Often Feb 2017 #57
Tommy Generico Feb 2017 #38
earthside Feb 2017 #42
MADem Feb 2017 #66
wordpix Feb 2017 #60
aggiesal Feb 2017 #41
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2017 #50
aggiesal Feb 2017 #73
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2017 #75
W T F Feb 2017 #43
Oneironaut Feb 2017 #45
earthside Feb 2017 #47
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2017 #49
jmowreader Feb 2017 #46
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2017 #48
MADem Feb 2017 #65
Igel Feb 2017 #94
jzodda Feb 2017 #51
MADem Feb 2017 #55
wordpix Feb 2017 #61
MADem Feb 2017 #62
wordpix Feb 2017 #96
MADem Feb 2017 #100
Rex Feb 2017 #64
judesedit Feb 2017 #68
Thor_MN Feb 2017 #69
Cognitive_Resonance Feb 2017 #70
EarthFirst Feb 2017 #71
NoGoodNamesLeft Feb 2017 #76
Doreen Feb 2017 #78
Liberaltalker Feb 2017 #79
zentrum Feb 2017 #80
Kimchijeon Feb 2017 #84
wryter2000 Feb 2017 #90
Panich52 Feb 2017 #92
yuiyoshida Feb 2017 #97
Amaryllis Feb 2017 #99
McCamy Taylor Feb 2017 #103
Paladin Feb 2017 #104

Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:20 AM

1. Yikes...

I hope they stop signing up for that service. If you have guard members in your family, please inform them about why this isn't good and help them explore how to resist.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:17 PM

58. Dump also sent 300 Air Guard from CT to the ME

for support, maintenance and "security."

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Response to wordpix (Reply #58)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:28 PM

63. Clinton, Bush and Obama deployed the Guard, too--you're apple/oranging. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #63)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 05:11 PM

95. no I'm not, just giving a factoid

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Response to wordpix (Reply #95)

Sun Feb 19, 2017, 03:13 AM

101. Deploying reservists overseas isn't the same as using them as stormtroopers at home. nt

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:22 AM

2. Half of the guard members might end up rounding up cousins,

at least where I used to live. No kidding.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 07:45 AM

88. No kidding. Will this be where we remember

what is has always meant to be American and recommit to it, or lose it for better generations to someday fight for once again?

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:22 AM

3. And here's your attempted diversion from Russia.

With a side of fascist autocracy.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:47 PM

72. +1

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 12:11 AM

85. +2

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 07:41 AM

87. Yes. But no "side," 45 admires Putin's authoritarian fist.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 11:21 PM

98. That's what I was thinking. How'd AP get that memo? nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 19, 2017, 03:44 AM

102. +3

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:22 AM

4. This is EXACTLY what we did to the US citizens of Japanese descent in WW2

 

Under executive order. Awful.

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Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:41 AM

19. No really it is not.

 

1) The Japanese Americans were US citizens.
2) They went to forced labor camps.

See the difference?

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Response to Tommy Generico (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:47 AM

26. That's the next step.

Can't take any chances with Mexicans or Muslims.

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Response to Tommy Generico (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 12:00 PM

33. They were not "forced labor" camps, there was a world war and there were no deportations, so......

Not to mention there were not 11 million potential folks involved. Comparisons are not all that apt, this is a very unique fascist move.

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Response to Tommy Generico (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 01:04 PM

40. Some of these people have green cards and visa.

Border Control and ICE aren't honoring that. This is so dangerous for us.

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Response to Tommy Generico (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 03:57 PM

52. US Detention centers use prisoners for forced labor

So it's really not as different as all that.

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Response to Tommy Generico (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 21, 2017, 06:17 PM

105. They were interned in camps but they were NOT forced labor camps

There was no torture, not one was executed or starved to death. They were interned in camps where they lived. Other things happened like their belonging were taken away, and what was done to them was horrible and should never have happened in this country, but it is best to limit ourselves to facts

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Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 03:20 PM

93. Not only then but under Hover in the late '20's and early '30's,,,

they rounded up Mexicans, including those who were American citizens, put them on trains back to Mexico.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Repatriation

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:23 AM

5. Only governors can do that? Yes? No? I do not know. NT

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:40 AM

18. No!

According to Article I, Section 8; Clause 15, the United States Congress is given the power to pass laws for "calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions." Congress is also empowered to come up with the guidelines "for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress" (clause 16). The President of the United States is the commander-in-chief of the state militias "when called into the actual Service of the United States." (Article II, Section 2).


Use of Militia and Armed Forces to Enforce Federal Authority.
Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, assemblages, or rebellion make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any state or territory, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any state. This is another statutory exception to the PCA.

PCA= Posse Comitatus Act

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Response to atreides1 (Reply #18)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:48 AM

27. Thanks. Source? Wikipedia? Specifically, where's the second paragraph from? NT

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Response to atreides1 (Reply #18)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:45 PM

67. There are EXTREME LIMITS to POTUS authority in that regard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act

(1) The President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to--
(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that--
(i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; and
(ii) such violence results in a condition described in paragraph (2); or
(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrection, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition described in paragraph (2).
(2) A condition described in this paragraph is a condition that--
(A) so hinders the execution of the laws of a State or possession, as applicable, and of the United States within that State or possession, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State or possession are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(B) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.



To proclaim a state of insurrection is a necessary prerequisite if cascading powers, such as is found in 50 U.S.C. § 212 Confiscation of property employed to aid insurrection, are to be used.

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Response to MADem (Reply #67)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 09:36 PM

81. Thus, Twitler's newest outrage....

like many of the rest, is DOA in the federal courts.

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Response to paleotn (Reply #81)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 01:34 AM

86. thank God for the judiciary

i feel the SCOTUS will be the idiot's downfall.

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Response to onetexan (Reply #86)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 07:56 AM

89. Yes, yes, yes! District and then appellate courts will do most of the

slapping down of the right's push to fascist oppression, and SCOTUS will uphold most if not all.

Thank James Madison and the others involved for our system of checks and balances. And those in the judiciary who respect the law and the principles that underlie it.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:23 AM

6. He'd have to get some state governors to go along with it?

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:51 AM

28. He has 31 that are repugs. More then half the country. Heck almost two thirds.

 

Dangerous president ever!

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 09:52 PM

82. Thanks for the link.

There is a good distinction between the US Army and the Army National Guard.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:26 AM

7. There aren't enough Grayhound buses to round up 11 million people.

and what makes Trump think that Mexico and other nations want people piling up at their borders. Won't it be a pretty picture to see thousands and thousands of people in concentration camps in the US and at borders and airports around the world?

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Response to vlyons (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:31 AM

9. Obviously it is a stick

 

The carrot will be some sort of tiered voluntary registration for a citizenship lottery, at which point you are on a watchlist. Register early, get entered into the lottery every time it runs, thus improving odds. Don't register, get caught, you can never register. Success will depend on compliance. 25% it is a failure, 75% it is a success. The Dreamers will register early, so they will not be deported ever. That is my prediction for what it is worth.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:29 AM

8. republicans are going to totally screw over the freaking FARM economy

better get ready to grow your own food

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Response to Achilleaze (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 12:44 PM

39. Trump is doing that now.

Mexico is considering buying corn from Brazil or Argentina instead of us. They are our third largest trading partner.

And don't say "I told you so," to the farmers. Plenty of us are Democrats.

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Response to Achilleaze (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:00 PM

53. Not only with this

Free trade policies allow US farmers to export hundreds of billions of dollars of food every year. The Trump administration tearing up our trade agreements and alienating our trading partners is already starting to hurt US farmers.

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Response to kiranerys (Reply #53)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:17 PM

59. Pee45 & republican cronies have totally suckered America's farmers

and all of America's heartland.

Republicans should get a clue: it's evil to sucker people with lies and false promises.

What is it about the time-honored teaching "honesty is the best policy" that republicans despise so much?

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Response to kiranerys (Reply #53)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 12:15 PM

91. Trump is going to kill a whole bunch of hardcore republican farmers and the red republican

communities what depend on the farmers income.

Couldn't happen to a bunch of nicer people!

The really funny part is, there are lots of republican pols that represent these people in Congress, they have to see whats coming.

And yet they are allowing Dump, Bannon and the alt-right to destroy their constituents. Go figure.



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Response to Achilleaze (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:51 PM

77. The problem is there are actually places that you are not allowed to

grow food. I can not remember where but I think it is in some big cities.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:33 AM

10. this turns my stomach

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:33 AM

11. From Wikipedia

The National Guard is considered the militia. I couldn't find what the PCA is. Seems like a way to break sanctuary cities.
...snip

Use of Militia and Armed Forces to Enforce Federal Authority.
Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, assemblages, or rebellion make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any state or territory, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any state. This is another statutory exception to the PCA.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:37 AM

16. PCA is Posse Comitus Act

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:35 AM

12. Two words:

Posse Comitatus.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:36 AM

13. Laying the groundwork...

for imposition of martial law.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:36 AM

14. Are we moving into a police state? This is not the purpose of the national guard. I see Bannon's

This is all over Twitter. I am very afraid.


Kyle Griffin ‏@kylegriffin1 17m17 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants.
22 replies 71 retweets 41 likes




Chris Geidner ‏@chrisgeidner 17m17 minutes ago

Chris Geidner Retweeted The Associated Press

I'd like a better description of "considers."

Chris Geidner added,
The Associated Press @AP
BREAKING: Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants.
5 replies 42 retweets 63 likes





Stop Trump
🍷 ‏@StopTrump2020 17m17 minutes ago

WTF? Are we moving into a police state? This is not the purpose of the national guard. I see Bannon's fingerprints on this



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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:36 AM

15. Well, there goes any agricultural products from those states

Military state anyone?

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:39 AM

17. K&R

for visibility.

Get ready to protest!

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:41 AM

20. Are these folks involved in planting too?

I usually think of them in harvesting. Could we have a nationwide crop failure? Planting time is coming soon.

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Response to greymattermom (Reply #20)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 12:04 PM

35. Yes, and in crop maintenance. NT

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Response to greymattermom (Reply #20)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:09 PM

56. In the South, it's always harvest season for something

It's citrus fruit season now, also leafy greens and other cool-weather crops.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:42 AM

21. Using the military for domestic law enforcement?

 

Isn't that illegal?

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Response to Tommy Generico (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 12:06 PM

37. From upthread:

Use of Militia and Armed Forces to Enforce Federal Authority.
Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, assemblages, or rebellion make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any state or territory, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any state. This is another statutory exception to the PCA.


Like cities that refuse to cooperate with federal immigration authorities. Like a sheriff that refuses an immigration detainer.
We had a guy here in Austin that was accused of sexually assulting a 9-year-old girl. They were going to ignore the detainer request and release him with a GPS monitor, but they changed their minds and are holding him.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:43 AM

22. I will bet that after this weekends mayhem at his campaign rally

we will see NG at future campaign events.

Beyond that, the minute an innocent or legal person is detained or deported, and you know this will happen, the courts will shut this down

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Response to GusBob (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:02 PM

54. He wanted tanks in his inaugural parade, so I don't doubt it

Apparently the army told him that he couldn't do it because driving tanks through DC would damage the roads. At least, that's what they told him. I think the army knows how deeply awful ideas like that are.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:43 AM

23. how soon before he tries to use the National Guard against anyone?

He can't use the military, but the National Guard is exempt. And if those Russian fascists decide that the protests are a threat to the government, well, don't forget Kent State and Jackson State:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_State_killings

we know trump and his cabel, including many of the state governments, are much worse than Nixon, and will not hesitate to use whatever means at hand will tighten their ideological grip on America.

Stay safe.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:44 AM

24. The troops would not be nationalized, remaining under state control.


Spokespeople for the governors of Arizona, Utah, Nevada, California, Colorado, Oklahoma, Oregon and New Mexico said they were unaware of the proposal, and either declined to comment or said it was premature to discuss whether they would participate. The other three states did not immediately respond to the AP.

The 11-page document calls for the unprecedented militarization of immigration enforcement as far north as Portland, Oregon, and as far east as New Orleans, Louisiana.

Four states that border on Mexico are included in the proposal -- California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas -- but it also encompasses seven states contiguous to those four -- Oregon, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

Governors in the 11 states would have a choice whether to have their guard troops participate, according to the memo, written by U.S. Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly, a retired four-star Marine general.

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Response to HAB911 (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 12:05 PM

36. The governors have had relatively quiet phones and faxes recently. Let's change that.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:46 AM

25. Oh, hell no

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:55 AM

29. FWIW, Sean Spicer - This is not true. DHS also confirms it is 100% false

Sean Spicer‏ @PressSec

This is not true. DHS also confirms it is 100% false
The Associated Press‏ @AP
Memo obtained by AP shows Trump considering mobilizing the National Guard to round up unauthorized immigrants.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PressSec/status/832616382667726851


1) It could have been a deliberate fake news leak to discredit the media.

2) Spicy has no clue what he's talking about.

Odds are even either way.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:55 AM

30. You guys aren't thinking big enough

Suppose...

First you mobilize 100k national guard. Get them out there. They are authorized according to the memo to act as ICE agents.

Then you say.. wait.. this isn't enough... lets get these private army guys in here as extra ICE agents.

OR...

We've already got armed militias all throughout the country. In Texas they LOVE helping patrol the border. They live for it. These guys would happily help Trump round up the immigrants.

And suddenly Trump has his private military force.

And yes, that's when he starts bringing in people like us. Well first it'll be the newspaper/tv talking heads. Then it'll be the rest of us liberals. Who knows where it ends.

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Response to woundedkarma (Reply #30)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 12:01 PM

34. I'd call you crazy, but that was my EXACT THOUGHT after reading the post.

He NEEDS a private militia.

And in his mind he owns this country now anyway, right? In his mind, this is all boardroom tussling for absolute control.

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Response to woundedkarma (Reply #30)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:58 PM

74. I think NM and Calif will tell him, hell no.New Mexicans wont do thisTo their own families.Civil War

seems to be one of his goals. Complete opposite of lincoln. Now, we can not only be in WWIII, but a Civil War. Bannon's dystopia realized

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 12:00 PM

31. History Repeats! Wait for it!



We need a statement of non-aggression from law enforcement and all members of the military.

The anti Vietnam protests were peaceful. Thanks to the NRA, this one may not be.

The government really needs to think about millions of Americans 'Standing Our Ground'!

Think ISIS ambushes are bad? America was won by guerrilla tactics against the British.

tRumpass does not want to play this game!

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 12:00 PM

32. Yes, this is legal under the Posse Comitatus Act

"The Act does not apply to the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #32)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 02:22 PM

44. It doesn't apply to National Guard "UNDER STATE AUTHORITY" This is a Federal action.

So, It still may be illegal. under Posse Comitatus

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Response to W T F (Reply #44)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:14 PM

57. It'll depend on how the orders are phrased

If they come from the governor, it's legal, if the troops are federalized, then probably not legal.

As always, it's the details that matter and it's a moot point since this is apparently a fake news story.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 12:07 PM

38. Update: Either the report was false or Trump is backpedalling.

 

Trump administration denies it is considering using National Guard to round up unauthorized immigrants
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/17/trump-considers-mobilizing-100000-national-guard-troops-to-round-up-unauthorized-immigrants.html

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Response to Tommy Generico (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 02:04 PM

42. Here is the memo.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3467508-Trump-National-Guard-Draft-Memo.html?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

The National Guard part is the second paragraph for bottom of page 3.

No matter what Spicy is saying now, this memo was generated by the 'Trump administration'.

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Response to earthside (Reply #42)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:39 PM

66. They say it is a DRAFT--not signed, not implemented.

I don't see any supporting signature/stamp or marking that suggests that memo was approved or distributed.

That does not mean they weren't sitting on it/considering it.

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Response to Tommy Generico (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:18 PM

60. what can you believe? He changes his "policies" every minute

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 01:52 PM

41. Has any one heard about the 8 stages of genocide ...

I hadn't until my daughter mentioned it to me last night.
It's pretty scary stuff.

Here are the 8 stages, and you decide where we are:
Stage 1: Classification – People are divided into “us and them”.
Stage 2: Symbolization – “When combined with hatred, symbols may be forced upon unwilling members of pariah groups…”
Stage 3: Dehumanization – “One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases.”
Stage 4: Organization – “Genocide is always organized… Special army units or militias are often trained and armed…”
Stage 5: Polarization – “Hate groups broadcast polarizing propaganda…”
Stage 6: Preparation – “Victims are identified and separated out because of their ethnic or religious identity…”
Stage 7: Extermination – “It is “extermination” to the killers because they do not believe their victims to be fully human.”
Stage 8: Denial – “The perpetrators… deny that they committed any crimes…”

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Response to aggiesal (Reply #41)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 03:30 PM

50. Dehumanization is key. tRump-bots have totally bought that one regarding Muslims

Stage 5 often comes before 4 and sometimes before or coincident with Stage 3.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #50)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:48 PM

73. Ok, so moving 5 to the number 3 slot ...

Now tell me where you think we are?

Here are the 8 stages, and you decide where we are:
Stage 1: Classification – People are divided into “us and them”.
Stage 2: Symbolization – “When combined with hatred, symbols may be forced upon unwilling members of pariah groups…”
Stage 3: Polarization – “Hate groups broadcast polarizing propaganda…”
Stage 4: Dehumanization – “One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases.”
Stage 5: Organization – “Genocide is always organized… Special army units or militias are often trained and armed…”
Stage 6: Preparation – “Victims are identified and separated out because of their ethnic or religious identity…”
Stage 7: Extermination – “It is “extermination” to the killers because they do not believe their victims to be fully human.”
Stage 8: Denial – “The perpetrators… deny that they committed any crimes…”

If the 100,000 National Guard story is true, I believe we are at 5.5

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Response to aggiesal (Reply #73)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:39 PM

75. Between 4 & 5. Polarized since Newt Gingrich 1994, muslims been dehumanized since before 9/11. nt

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Response to deminks (Original post)


Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 02:31 PM

45. BS story. Beware of hysteria

Reporting false stories and spreading them feeds into Trump's narrative that the press is irresponsible and out to get him. Our press needs to be more careful in spreading hearsay and outright lies.

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Response to earthside (Reply #47)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 03:28 PM

49. It does say "draft" and White House doesn't deny its authenticity, just that it is not actual policy

.
.
.

(yet)

Who knows what the future will bring? Certainly not the "fine tuned machine" that is Donald Trump's fantasy of his own White House.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 02:44 PM

46. Martin Niemoller comes to mind

First the Great President Trump imposed martial law on the Mexicans
and I did not speak up, because I am not a Mexican.

Then the Great President Trump imposed martial law on the Muslims
and I did not speak up, because I am not a Muslim.

Then the Great President Trump imposed martial law on women, non-Christians and Democrats
and I did not speak up, because I am not any of those.

Finally, that asshole Trump imposed it on me
and I found myself surrounded by Mexicans, Muslims, women, non-Christians and Democrats all making the "world's tiniest violin" hand gesture.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 03:26 PM

48. This story has already been denied by the White House.

AP tried to get a confirmation or denial with several calls that were never returned, so they ran the story. Then Shauna SpiceGirl said that AP was "irresponsible" and then denied the story.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #48)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:36 PM

65. It was based on an ACTUAL draft memo that did not make it up the chain.

The actual memo (again--this is just a DRAFT--not signed/not implemented) can be found here: https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8001743/Implementing_the_President_s_Border_Security_and_Immigration_Enforcement....0.pdf

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Response to MADem (Reply #65)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 04:34 PM

94. So somebody low in the food chain wrote it.

And it went nowhere, but DHS employees circulated it and leaked it.

The news is the suspicion.

Terra!

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 03:35 PM

51. Wow the formation of his brown shirts

Scary shit.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:06 PM

55. Quite a few agencies will take issue with this.

First off, Congress--he's stepping on their prerogative. Secondly, Governors, particularly if he wants to involve state Guards--I should imagine a governor who was not completely a dumbfuck would look askance at this encroachment upon one of his or her prerogatives. Next, The American People, who aren't fond of this kind of shit and had something called a "Revolution" the last time there were soldiers in the streets, pushing people around. Lastly, military commanders, who no doubt now, if they have not so done already, reviewing the whole "Lawful Order" thing they slept through at their OCS/ROTC and/or Military Academy classes.

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Response to MADem (Reply #55)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:20 PM

61. he just sent 300 Air Guards to MidEast from CT

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Response to wordpix (Reply #61)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:27 PM

62. That's not the same. The Mid-East is not "Texas" or "Nevada."

It gets problematic when Trump wants to use servicemembers to enforce law DOMESTICALLY.

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Response to MADem (Reply #62)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 05:15 PM

96. it's problematic we're using Nat Guard for

what we normally use armed forces for

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Response to wordpix (Reply #96)

Sun Feb 19, 2017, 03:11 AM

100. We've done this for many decades now.

Guard and Reserve now have representation on the Joint Chiefs.

Using them as a plus-up to the regular services enables us to have a much SMALLER standing military. It's also the thing that has pretty much obviated the need for a draft. Without that capability, we'd be drafting people every time we got in a dust-up.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:34 PM

64. I see his trial baloon already popped!

 

Nobody is going to let Donny Tinyhands command their state NG units. Well maybe Texas, our state has batshit crazy people in charge. Abbott and Paxton would LOVE to have them some police state action.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:52 PM

68. He's a sick fucker

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:00 PM

69. He wanted to but then someone grabbed his Posse Comitatus....

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:18 PM

70. Sound like somebody leaked this draft to "nip it in the bud" as Barney Fife would say. nt

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:34 PM

71. The RTKBA crew spent 8 years arming themselves against this very type of action!

Now all of a sudden they're into federalizing our troops into a law enforcement brigade?

This is irrational and dangerous!

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:40 PM

76. How very Nazi-esque of him

 

eom

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:57 PM

78. I am surprised Washington state was not in there.

I have this weird thought. You know how he is for privatized prisons..right? Well, if he arrests enough people for these private prisons they will have plenty of people to take the immigrants places. Legal slave labor with unthinkable abuse being legal also. What do you all think about that?

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 08:12 PM

79. And the American Gestapo is born...

First they will come for the undocumented, then they will find some excuse to go after certain visa and green card holders, its only a small step from there to those defiend as "un-American enemies of the state." This is scary stuff... This country seems to be repeating the past and hell bent on going down a very dark road...

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 09:15 PM

80. Trump via Spicer

....is denying this story. Sounds real and highly possible, but it is being denied.

I think we need to be very careful. They can send out one alarming fake story after another and then, when it's debunked, it gives credence to his statements that the press is fake, corrupt, "the enemy".

These are like Black Flag media events and we need to separate the real from the planted.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 10:57 PM

84. Scary shit. We need to get rid of this shitbag.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 11:40 AM

90. Jerry Brown

Will tell him to stuff his plan where the sun don't shine.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 03:16 PM

92. Jefferson's fears of peace-time standing army realized?

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 10:09 PM

97. California will not...

Our Governor has more common sense in his little finger than the entire body of the President.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Sun Feb 19, 2017, 03:10 AM

99. Governors would have a choice...CA, OR and WA govs will not go for it.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Sun Feb 19, 2017, 06:55 PM

103. The Libertarian Wing of the GOP will have a shit fit.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Tue Feb 21, 2017, 11:14 AM

104. There is not way trump can implement this, without concentration camps.

No way in hell.

Oh, trump and bannon will dress them up with other descriptions, but that's what they'll be: concentration camps, for illegal immigrants, and other enemies of the regime.

The only question remaining: What are we willing to do about it?

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