Police May Set Off Booby Traps In Colorado Massacre Suspect James Holmes’ Apartment

[maddezmom]

Last edited Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:08 AM - Edit history (2)

Source: CBS/AP

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) - Investigators are preparing to detonate shooting suspect James Holmes’ apartment building, perhaps as early as today, CBS News reports.
¬snip¬

He says he rigged his apartment with a complex system of booby traps and explosives, and police say they have found no way of safely diffusing them.

FBI agents and police used a hook-and-ladder fire truck to reach Holmes’ apartment. They put a camera at the end of a 12-foot pole inside the apartment and discovered the unit was booby-trapped. Authorities evacuated five buildings as they tried to figure how to disarm the flammable and explosive material.

“It is a very vexing problem how to enter that apartment safely,” Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates says. “I personally haven’t seen anything like what the pictures show us is in there. I’m a layman when it comes to bomb stuff, (but) I see an awful lot of wires, trip wires, jars full of ammunition … jars full of liquids, mortar rounds. We have a lot of challenges to get in there safely.”


Read more: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/21/police-may-set-off-booby-traps-in-colorado-massacre-suspect-james-holmes-apartment/

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ETA this since I missed it yesterday.

AP Source: Colo. shooting suspect not cooperating

SAN DIEGO (AP) — The suspect in a shooting that killed or wounded 71 people early Friday in a suburban Denver movie theater is not talking to investigators, a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation told The Associated Press.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/19077218/ap-source-colo-shooting-suspect-not-cooperating

Police: Colo. shooting suspect trapped apartment

By By STEVEN K. PAULSON – 9 minutes ago

AURORA, Colo. (AP) — Police are trying to enter the Colorado shooting suspect's apartment but have been forced to move cautiously after spotting booby traps with trip wires.

Firefighters are monitoring the Aurora apartment building for gases in an effort to determine what chemicals 24-year-old James Holmes might have used to trap the place — in case the materials go off, authorities said.

¬snip¬

FBI agents and police discovered it was booby-trapped when they used a camera at the end of a 12-foot pole to look inside.

"It's a pretty extensive booby trap. We're not sure what it's attached to. There are trip wires. There are three containers and we don't know what's inside," said Chris Henderson, deputy Aurora fire chief.

more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j5n9WHjFPhkM1FdiEnlBo3y2mQ5A?docId=6dd74b94c56541c48cee8333db659008

[oberliner]

1. Why is the Chief of Police a "layman when it comes to bomb stuff" ?

Seems like something a police officer, and especially the chief of police, would have learned something about at some point, no?

[randome]

4. Not every town in the country plans for something like this.

And a chief of police is a leader and organizer, not an expert in everything every officer does. That's what 'experts' are for.

[oberliner]

12. He was an NYPD officer for over 20 years

Isn't NY the kind of city that plans for these sorts of things?

[randome]

24. Good point about his background.

But he's still not an expert. They might have put someone forward who IS an expert, though.

[MADem]

44. Don't those large PDs have specialty units to deal with that kind of shit?

I wouldn't expect a beat cop, a homicide detective, an administrative guy, to necessarily know the meat-n-bones of the bomb squad.

I'd be calling in the FBI, toute suite, if I were him.

[oberliner]

58. I'm not saying he needs to be an expert

Just surprised that he would consider himself a layman on "bomb stuff" - and phrase it that way.

[MADem]

63. The Air Force has a ton of people who don't fly planes, the Navy has a ton of people who don't drive

ships.

If he's a cop in a leadership position, he likely came up through one path, the beat cop-detective-group leader type path, and I doubt it would be a "specialty" path like being an explosive expert--I think those guys pretty much stick to their knitting.

I think it's refreshing when someone acknowledges, straight up, that they don't know it all. It makes me have more confidence, not less, in the guy. Poor so-n-so has his work cut out for him.

[oberliner]

66. Just to clarify - this is not meant as a knock on the police chief

I am glad he was honest and straightforward and all that.

I am just surprised that someone can rise to the rank of chief of police without having had any training related to bombs. Especially someone who worked in the NYPD for over 20 years.

I was just a bit surprised by that.

[MADem]

68. I took your point...I knew you weren't dissing the guy.

I see this happen all the time, or I used to, in my line of work. You have a military leader who spent the bulk of his career in one area of warfare suddenly responsible for leadership on the theater level that encompasses several areas of expertise. All they can do is fake it till they make it and rely on subject matter experts, and hope their good judgment is working!

[boppers]

6. Not at all.

That's like asking why a CTO can't debug a software program.

[oberliner]

11. He was a police officer for 20 years

Is learning something about "bomb stuff" not part of the training at all?

[Bjorn Against]

18. Police rarely deal with bombs of this complexity

Police may deal with the occasional pipe bomb (although even those are not real common), but it is extremely rare for them to run into bombs with this level of complexity. Police are not trained for this.

[oberliner]

59. I understand that

I just figured he'd be a bit more than just a layman on the subject of bombs. Just found that a little weird - but it's not that big of a deal.

[harmonicon]

10. No. (nt)

[whistler162]

19. Becuase he is intelligent enough to know the limits

of his own knowledge and is able to admit it. Sounds like a very smart man.

[lunatica]

26. I would think your answer would be pretty obvious

He may actually know more than us, but still not be anywhere near being knowledgeable in bombs and rigged booby traps as the specialists.

[Ready4Change]

30. Agreed

He's the Chief of Police. His main skill should be delegating to subject matter experts. As he rose to his position he probably developed expertise in some area(s), but it's unlikely he has expertise in ALL areas. I suspect expertise in bombs/booby traps is a rare commodity.

[flamingdem]

35. He came across as a very competent person, honest to a fault nt

[oberliner]

60. I don't doubt that

I am just surprised he never came across any training about bombs in his many years of police service.

[whistler162]

70. He likely had the same traing every Police Officer has

outside of the bomb squad.

If you think it is an explosive clear the F**KIN' area and don't F**KIN' touch it or look at it funny!

[slor]

64. I agree with you...

I have been impressed with him quite frankly.

[roguevalley]

39. I hope they let people get their stuff. I would be pissed to lose my entire life because

of this man. Most renters don't have insurance like homeowners.

[maddezmom]

40. I read started to allow people back one by one to retrieve personal items

last night. But only in 4 out of the 5 evacuated buildings. And I don't think it was much more than identification, papers, etc.

[Posteritatis]

48. "Bombs" is not a monolithic concept, especially when they're homemade. (nt)

[oberliner]

61. He called himself a layman with respect to "bomb stuff"

He seemed to be presenting "bombs" as a monolithic concept in the way he phrased it.

[Posteritatis]

67. Because soundbites for a dumbed-down media always map so perfectly onto reality. (nt)

[oberliner]

69. Fair point

No disrespect intended - just was taken aback a bit by the remark.

[sakabatou]

2. A small robot, even a radio control toy

might detonate it.

[randome]

5. Couldn't they borrow some military defusing equipment?

Don't they have even better robots to use in this kind of situation?

[avebury]

25. Agreed. Why aren't they working with the military on this.

The military have experts for dealing with explosives.

If I lived in one of the other apartments in the building I would be really ticked off if they blew up my belongings along with the building.

[MADem]

45. FBI does, too. nt

[spinbaby]

3. I really feel for his neighbors

Those poor people, living next to that, then being evacuated and having their building detonated.

[Moltisanti]

7. couldn't he call someone that knows more? n/t

[maddezmom]

8. I'm sure he has

welcome to DU.

[hlthe2b]

9. Heavens- they've had ATF & bomb squads

from Denver, Jefferson & other surrounding
Counties & access to military assets as
well. They are hardly sitting there helplessly bemoaning their lack of expertise

[oberliner]

13. So they've all been outwitted by a 20something kid?

Doesn't give one a lot of confidence.

[justiceischeap]

15. So, you prefer they risk their lives to defuse his booby-trapped apartment

than to sacrifice the building? From the sounds of things, his apartment is one gigantic series of booby-traps that he has probably been setting up for some time. They have been dealing with this for, what, a day and a half at this point? You're post in not logical, or all that sensible.

[Occulus]

34. Seems to me a nearly perfect, real world testbed for one of those remote-controlled robots we see

touted periodically on those tech docutainment shows.

You know, those robotic devices designed for these exact scenarios. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

[oberliner]

62. Not at all

I just would be surprised that all those experts from across those departments would not be up to the task. From recent updates, it seems that they, in fact, are.

[maddezmom]

16. outwitted? maybe cautious?

Are you looking for some sort of time limit here?

[Ready4Change]

31. Agreed. This guy wasn't a pro, and in some ways dealing with that is more difficult.

If this guy had military explosives experience it would be likely he would use more standardized techniques. But, since it appears he is likely a self trained amateur, it's possible he has done unconventional things in that apartment. The inside of that place could be a Rube Goldberg device that will take some time to decipher.

[JDPriestly]

47. This guy was a neuroscience major. Probably had a lot of chemistry and technical background.

Neuroscience -- understanding the chemistry and wiring of the brain. Not hard to translate that into explosives, I suppose.

[MADem]

46. Yes, dammit! Get cracking!!!!! Hop TO!!! Tick tock, tick tock!!! Now! NOW!!!!!!!

[Posteritatis]

49. We've been nicely trained by techno-thrillers and ticking-bomb scenarios. (nt)

[hlthe2b]

23. There are many occasions when they opt for controlled demolition...

this is not uncommon and says nothing about their "competence".... They have to take the safety of their officers and that of the community into account. Only on tv do the "good guys" ALWAYS manage to defuse a bomb in seconds--knowing not a thing about it.

If you do some reading on the subject, the truth is that most modern bombs are so complex that defusion is apparently not possible and controlled detonation is necessary.

[bluedigger]

14. I'm sure that will be their last choice.

They will want to avoid destroying any other evidence in the apartment, if at all possible. If Holmes actually has mortar shells in there, then he had help/accomplices. No way a young kid with no prior military background would be able to access munitions like that. In fact, that would be fairly difficult and expensive to obtain. Given that he purchased all his weapons in the last two months from big box stores, I'm a little skeptical that they are military ordinance.

One thing that we have a lot of experience in during the last decade is IED's. The Feds will have their best people there to assist the local authorities.

[Nay]

17. Where are AP's editors? "Defusing," not "diffusing."

[Lucky Luciano]

21. I guess they were finding it difficult

to spread the bomb materials around the neighborhood.

[Nay]

22. LOLOL! Guess so!

[LiberalEsto]

38. I suspect the editing jobs have been outsourced nt

[Lucky Luciano]

55. Probably rely only on spell/grammar check software

That would have missed this contextual error.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

71. They also on MSNBC said "POLICE DENTONATING BOMB"

Guess they would have to go to Denton to do it.

Nobody spell checks their captions.

[geek tragedy]

20. Make Holmes open his own damn apartment door.

Nothing in the 8th amendment forbidding police from forcing a guy to go home.

[tularetom]

28. I was thinking the same thing

Make him go in there and defuse the thing.

Only drawback is that he could destroy some evidence if he goes in alone and blows himself up in the process.

[flamingdem]

36. His father is there and they are probably getting info out of him

If they blow it up that tells us that he didn't give up information about the booby trap

[avebury]

27. What do you think the odds are that

it is a big hoax perpetrated by the shooter? If he is that smart, he might have rigged the apartment to make it look like it is fully booby trapped. Yeah did by guns and ammo but is there any evidence that he bought any chemicals/components that could be used in explosive devices? I wondering if the apartment could be smoke and mirrors. Imagine if the authorities end up blowing up the buidilng and then they find out there is no explosive materials.

It kind of makes me wonder. What do you think?

[LisaL]

29. Are you willing to go into his apartment to test this theory of yours?

[Cooley Hurd]

33. If they're fakes, then, their plan to simply let them dentonate would be elementary...

[Ineeda]

37. There was speculation that the theater was only his first target.

When he exited and got to his car, he was apprehended immediately. I'm sure he didn't expect such a quick police response (I've heard 90 seconds from the first call.) I've also heard the report that loud techno music started in his apartment at the stroke of midnight, exactly the time the movie was to begin. Apparently a neighbor went to his door to complain and ended up not attempting to 'jiggle' the doorknob or enter. So was this an attempt to instigate a second but simultaneous massive disaster -- a huge explosion in a residential apartment complex? Or perhaps, his intention was to return to his apartment and wait for the cops to break down his door.....and kablooey. I'm just speculating, like most of us.

[Esse Quam Videri]

41. I've heard the same thing on local news.

This guy is a diabolical genius. Set the music off at midnight - We know the neighbor went up to complain and if she had actually opened the door.......bam. The whole apartment goes up and a good number of police and rescue crews respond to the explosion at the apartment. Then he begins his attack at the movie theater and the response takes a whole lot longer than 90 secs because most resources are tied up at the apartment.

[bluedigger]

50. That sounds like the plan.

I just watched an interview with the neighbor on MSNBC. She went up, knocked, and left when there was no response. He probably expected a neighbor to either open the door, or call the police. (I know from personal experience that they will enter an unlocked residence to respond to a noise complaint. )

I wonder how much evidence he left behind, assuming it would be destroyed in the ensuing explosion?

They are also reporting that they have disabled the first tripwire. They're going to get in, I think.

[QUALITYCONTRoll]

32. BloCK BUSTER....

Coming to a theater near you metal detectors pat-downs strip downs and.........

[maddezmom]

42. from live News Conf on CNN, MSNBC

and here
http://denver.cbslocal.com/live-video/

"We have been successful in defeating the first threat"

They are in the apartment. Still have other threats, etc will keep the public updated.

[sakabatou]

43. Thanks for the update.

[maddezmom]

51. twitter feed from Aurora PD says 2nd controll detonation successful

https://twitter.com/aurorapd

Aurora Police Dept?@AuroraPD

The controlled detonation was successful. Streets now open.

[sakabatou]

52. Any other ordinance, weapons, etc. still in there or is everything a-ok?

[maddezmom]

53. they said this is going to be going on for a while

there are at least 16 (and have heard reports of 60 items) that need to be dealt with in there.

[maddezmom]

57. Now Aurora Police are saying that all major threats eliminated from the Apt

[sakabatou]

65. It's gonna take a few days to deal with the minor ones.

Those ones can injure.

[dixiegrrrrl]

56. Police set off blast inside Colorado theater shooting suspect's apartment

AURORA, Colo. -- Specialists set off a small, controlled detonation inside the apartment of mass shooting suspect James Eagan Holmes on Saturday after earlier disarming a trip wire and incendiary device set to kill, police said.

A siren and shouts of "Fire in the hole" preceded the blast, and a two-man team on a fire truck ladder later peered inside the apartment.

"The controlled detonation was successful," the Aurora Police Department said in a statement. "Still more work to be done in the apartment to include dealing with other devices. There is a possibility of more controlled detonations."

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/21/12875178-police-set-off-blast-inside-colorado-theater-shooting-suspects-apartment?lite

[SemperEadem]

54. dang.. that's effin' messed up

to put everyone's life and property at risk like that when they did nothing to him to cause him to enter into this criminal enterprise.

So selfish and self centered. He'd be so at the tip of my pike in a lawsuit.