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Adenoid_Hynkel

(14,093 posts)
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 08:10 AM Jul 2012

Shooter's Gun Jammed During Aurora Attack, Official Says

Source: Huffington Post

WASHINGTON -- A federal law enforcement official says the semi-automatic assault rifle used in the deadly Colorado movie theater shooting jammed during the attack.

The official said late Saturday the rifle had a high-capacity ammunition magazine which, based on witness accounts and evidence collected at the scene, apparently jammed. The rifle's malfunction then forced the suspected shooter, James Holmes, to switch to another weapon.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the investigation.

Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates has said a 100-round drum magazine was recovered at the scene of the shooting in suburban Denver. Oates said such a weapon was capable of firing 50 to 60 rounds a minute.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/22/james-holmes-gun-jammed-aurora-colorado-dark-knight-shooting_n_1692690.html

41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Shooter's Gun Jammed During Aurora Attack, Official Says (Original Post) Adenoid_Hynkel Jul 2012 OP
Cue our 'experts' to tell us how he could have avoided this 'unfortunate' occurrence. nt onehandle Jul 2012 #1
If only everyone was armed.... lunatica Jul 2012 #2
If only everyone was armed? Then what? liberal N proud Jul 2012 #4
The NRA's position is that if, when this carnage started in the theater, Doctor_J Jul 2012 #15
Gun nuts will deny that is the NRA's position. liberal N proud Jul 2012 #18
Fortunately the theater had a no-guns allowed policy 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #26
I don't think you will find anyone advocating the arming of children. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #6
Untrue, and I think you know that Doctor_J Jul 2012 #14
teaching gun safety and trips to the range are not "in favor of arming children" n/t EX500rider Jul 2012 #19
There is a big difference between teaching youth to shoot and advocating they keep and bear arms. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #30
What a bright world this would be! klook Jul 2012 #27
The shooter was wearing bullet proof equipment and using an assault rifle. kemah Jul 2012 #29
I was being sarcastic lunatica Jul 2012 #34
This expert is not surprised. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #5
Not an expert atreides1 Jul 2012 #7
Wow Esse Quam Videri Jul 2012 #3
Now THERE'S a problem the NRA could address! NinetySix Jul 2012 #8
No doubt they would support new regulation to improve quality control of 100-round drum magazines. DCBob Jul 2012 #11
and... so... lanlady Jul 2012 #9
Yeah, What kind of warranty was on that drum magazine? RC Jul 2012 #10
It jammed? Third Doctor Jul 2012 #12
"Oates said such a weapon was capable of firing 50 to 60 rounds a minute" awoke_in_2003 Jul 2012 #13
When they wrote the Second Amendment, rifles of that time ohgeewhiz Jul 2012 #17
True... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2012 #21
Well regulated meant well equiped bossy22 Jul 2012 #22
That's dumb as dirt. nt greyl Jul 2012 #24
NO! Well regulated did NOT mean "well-equipped" ohgeewhiz Jul 2012 #38
Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #41
Can't even imagine the casualties if it hadn't jammed tawadi Jul 2012 #16
Anyone who buys an assault rifle should have to wear a bright orange hat at all times. truthisfreedom Jul 2012 #20
Would an oragne jumpsuit do? Igel Jul 2012 #23
Something stylish and/or attention getting is a must... -..__... Jul 2012 #28
Missing the point! NO ONE should be able to ohgeewhiz Jul 2012 #39
High capacity clips tend to do that 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #25
what does it mean when a gun "jams"? Liberal_in_LA Jul 2012 #31
How AR-15s jam bicentennial_baby Jul 2012 #33
Thanks Liberal_in_LA Jul 2012 #36
When the next round doesn't get seated in the chamber properly for one reason or another Posteritatis Jul 2012 #35
like when a staple gets stuck in the stapler. Got it. Liberal_in_LA Jul 2012 #37
Good metaphor. slampoet Jul 2012 #40
What a ripoff. I hope a refund is on its way n/t rocktivity Jul 2012 #32
 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
15. The NRA's position is that if, when this carnage started in the theater,
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:15 PM
Jul 2012

everyone in attendance had reached for a sidearm and started blasting away, the massacre would have been avoided. It's really hard to describe how insane this sounds to normal people, but there it is.

liberal N proud

(60,298 posts)
18. Gun nuts will deny that is the NRA's position.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:18 PM
Jul 2012

I have heard it many times and if you go into the gun nut form and use, they attack you for it.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
14. Untrue, and I think you know that
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:13 PM
Jul 2012

most of the long threads in the gungeon have posts in favor of teaching youngsters to shoot and teaching shooting (gun safety) beginning in kindergarten and thereabouts.

 

Atypical Liberal

(5,412 posts)
30. There is a big difference between teaching youth to shoot and advocating they keep and bear arms.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 04:32 PM
Jul 2012

I learned to shoot at age 8 from my father. When I was in Boy Scouts every summer I spent time on the shooting range from age 10-1/2 to 18.

I took my daughter to the range when she was 5 and helped her shoot my .44 black powder pistol.

Children should be taught firearm safety from an early age, even Kindergarten. The NRA Eddie Eagle program is fantastic in this regard - it teaches children "STOP, DON'T TOUCH, TELL AN ADULT" if they see a firearm.

None of this is the same as advocating that children should be armed, and I think you know that.

kemah

(276 posts)
29. The shooter was wearing bullet proof equipment and using an assault rifle.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 04:27 PM
Jul 2012

What chance would you have firing concealed weapon without bullet proof equipment just a suicide mission. He was expecting people to shoot back, but human nature takes over and fear makes you run away from the gun fire.
Trained professional, police, military run towards the gunfire. They know their brothers in arm are also running towards the fire. They are trained and well armed, and wearing bullet proof vests. They have trained and know how to achieve their goal.

The shooter will also have the advantage of surprise and will pick weak or soft targets.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
34. I was being sarcastic
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 04:54 PM
Jul 2012

Sorry. I should have included the sarcasm gif. And I shouldn't assume everyone here knows me. I'm a believer in regulating the sales of guns. I don't want guns to be banned.

 

Atypical Liberal

(5,412 posts)
5. This expert is not surprised.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 09:40 AM
Jul 2012

I'm an expert, and I'm not surprised. The same thing happened to Loughner. Using aftermarket magazines is always a crap-shoot. Using extended magazines is really a crap shoot.

The problem is that a long stack-up of bullets naturally requires a spring mechanism with a long travel in order to be able to provide constant, uniform pressure to feed every round from the first to the last, without being too strong on the first round and too weak on the last. It's tricky.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_C-Mag

"A test in 2003 by US Army soldiers in Afghanistan found the C-Mag unreliable in simulated combat conditions, with frequent failures to feed among the issues.[4] The Beta C-Mag is not in widespread use by US military forces, and has not been type-classified."

atreides1

(16,046 posts)
7. Not an expert
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 09:47 AM
Jul 2012

But he could have avoided this by not going at all or shooting himself in the head.

And more then likely it was the weight of the drum magazine that caused the rifle to jam...it's the same problem when you tape two regular magazines together...the weight pulls down enough that the top of the magazine doesn't line and as the bolt moves forward it doesn't catch the round at the correct angle...causing a jam.

This is how it was explained to me during marksmanship training when I was in the Army...

It would seem that he didn't know how to clear his weapon...or he just didn't want to take the time to do so!

 

NinetySix

(1,301 posts)
8. Now THERE'S a problem the NRA could address!
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 09:48 AM
Jul 2012

It's ridiculous that people should have to put up with cheap, low-quality equipment that breaks down during a crucially important moment.

Quality control! I hate like hell to advocate for further regulation, of course, but gun ownership is an indispensable constitutional right, as you know.






And before you flame me, do I really have to use a sarcasm smiley?

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
11. No doubt they would support new regulation to improve quality control of 100-round drum magazines.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 11:13 AM
Jul 2012

sad.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
10. Yeah, What kind of warranty was on that drum magazine?
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 11:06 AM
Jul 2012

Maybe he can return it and get his money back, seeing howz the defective magazine stopped'em from killin' more people. After all, that what that equipment was designed for, correct? Kill living things, like humans and stuff?

Third Doctor

(1,574 posts)
12. It jammed?
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 11:55 AM
Jul 2012

Despite of this he still managed to shoot 70 people. This much firepower in civilian hands is nuts.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
13. "Oates said such a weapon was capable of firing 50 to 60 rounds a minute"
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:12 PM
Jul 2012

that is a low estimate. Even with a semi-automatic, two shots a second isn't that hard. Either way, the fact that people can obtain 100 round drum magazines is insanity.

 

ohgeewhiz

(193 posts)
17. When they wrote the Second Amendment, rifles of that time
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:17 PM
Jul 2012

could fire one round, then had to be re-loaded by hand.

None of the Founding Fathers could have anticipated modern semi auto and automatic weaponry, nor aiming such weapons at "sitting ducks" of hundreds of human beings in a darkened movie theater.

Just my two cents worth on gun control and the Second Amendment.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
21. True...
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:50 PM
Jul 2012

and they used the words "Well regulated militia". Private ownership of guns is not the same as a well regulated militia

 

ohgeewhiz

(193 posts)
38. NO! Well regulated did NOT mean "well-equipped"
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 06:06 PM
Jul 2012

It meant that the local government held regulatory powers over the use of such weapons.

Please, gun nuts, stop making shit up!!!!

Regulation Regulated, both words descend to us over 2000 years of latin routed history of our English language.

If you gun nuts and advocates of "freedom" to carry semi-automatic weapons capable of killing 50 or more people a minute stop engaging in wishful thinking as to what the language of the 18th century,( when our Constitution was written), would you please do a little study of history?

Here's a challenge to you: research this expression from the 18'th century.


"The regulars", people within control of the local government!

"The irregulars", people NOT under local governmental control.

Do your homework, and give up your senseless ideas that someone with a semi-automatic rifle capable of delivering 50-100 child-killing rounds in a minute is what the Constitution ever was meant to guarantee! WHat a senseless useless brain got you into that paranoia? PLEASE!

Response to ohgeewhiz (Reply #38)

truthisfreedom

(23,113 posts)
20. Anyone who buys an assault rifle should have to wear a bright orange hat at all times.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 12:42 PM
Jul 2012

And if they're caught in public without the bright orange hat, they automatically go to prison for 25 years.

Igel

(35,191 posts)
23. Would an oragne jumpsuit do?
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:00 PM
Jul 2012

Assault rifles for civilian purchase have been illegal to make in the US since '86 (that Reagan and his restrictions on guns!).

They've been illegal to buy in the US (except by things like the military or perhaps police) since 1934. Buy one, get caught, and off to the federal penitentiary you go.

Assault rifles are automatic weapons. They have to have a semiautomatic setting. But without the automatic setting, they're not assault rifles. To a certain extent it's like saying a "female rooster" or "a male woman."

It was an assault weapon, which is more of a political scare term than anything meaningful. Semiautomatic, catridges that hold lots of rounds, but ultimately it just meant "scary looking weapon, and trendy among those we don't like because it's scary and easily available."

 

ohgeewhiz

(193 posts)
39. Missing the point! NO ONE should be able to
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 06:12 PM
Jul 2012

buy an assault rifle.

No one in Canada or Japan or the UK can!

No one in the USA needs one.

How about you say " Anyone who buys a surface to air missle should have to wear a bright orange hat at all times."

See how stupid your concept is here?

If, as so many people claim, we need weapons to fight off our democracy, then, surface to air missiles are a better approach than a gun.

Hunting rifles, capable of one or two shots in 5 seconds, to kill deer, turkeys, whatever. OK

Revolvers, to shoot folks who break and enter your home, fine.

Anything more, get into the military to use it, no one needs it in the USA.

bicentennial_baby

(37,153 posts)
33. How AR-15s jam
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 04:52 PM
Jul 2012

In some cases, the spring in the magazine is so strong it pushes two or sometimes even three up into the chamber and bolt cannot continue forward. In other cases the spring is weak or the magazine is filled to its maximum capacity so it doesn't have the "oomph" necessary to push the next cartridge up.

SLAP RACK BANG is the correct instant response for this particular type of weapon.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
35. When the next round doesn't get seated in the chamber properly for one reason or another
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 05:02 PM
Jul 2012

Usually because it's, well, jammed partway to where it's supposed to be. It can also be when the brass cartridge holding around remains stuck after the round is fired, preventing the next round from getting into the chamber.

There's a few other things that can happen, including a round being properly placed in the chamber and just not firing because of some problem with the cartridge, but the end result in all of them is that it can't fire again until the offending round or casing is removed one way or another.

 

Liberal_in_LA

(44,397 posts)
37. like when a staple gets stuck in the stapler. Got it.
Sun Jul 22, 2012, 05:57 PM
Jul 2012

If he didn't have all those other guns, someone could have tackled him, I guess

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